The perfect Emacs keyboard?

[iMav]

Derek from Trideja Digital Creativity turned me on to this paper regarding the Symbolics/MacIvory keyboards:

     THE PERFECT KEYBOARD FOR GNU EMACS AND XML: THE SYMBOLICS/APPLE MACIVORY

Agree or disagree...you gotta appreciate John Bear's healthy obsession with his primary input device!   :wink:

[xsphat]

I don't know enough about Emacs to vote one way or the other, but I can say that specialty keyboards are not my thing.

I do not like the control keys crowding the space bar, as this is where the command key has been for all my life. Plus, the pics that turned up in my search all had this baby with RJ connectors, and I didn't see any for sale, so is this a company that went out of business or is it vaporware or what?

[iMav]

It is a keyboard from a MacIvory which was, apparently, sold in 1987.  The entire paper is him lamenting on the fact that there is no modern-day equivalent to this old keyboard.    I'm guessing if you cut your teeth on Emacs with a similarly-configured keyboard, you'd probably have some of the same feelings.  (we like what we know and all that jazz)

I believe he makes some valid points...but he certainly did approach his paper with an obviously strong bias.  

Like I said, I appreciate the obsession.  He knows what he likes.  I can respect that.

[xsphat]

Like I said, I appreciate the obsession.  He knows what he likes.  I can respect that.

Agreed.

[iMav]

Here's a pic:

[xsphat]

So what do you think of it, iMav?

Have you ever seen or used one?

[iMav]

Makes me want to buy a Lisp machine of my own to play with.  

[xsphat]

See, when I read stuff like that I am sometimes list in that all I know of a a Lisp is that it is a speech impediment. I guess I'm not as geeky as I should be. I'll work on that.

[iMav]

See, when I read stuff like that I am sometimes list in that all I know of a a Lisp is that it is a speech impediment. I guess I'm not as geeky as I should be. I'll work on that.

Well, your favorite editor was written in Lisp.  And, being a writer, you might be interested in reading this.  

[zXWF]

Nice! I am a big Emacs fanboy and didn't thought I would find a Emacs thread here (I have no explaination for that assumption), time to hit the search box. Thank you, troll!

What kind of connector do the Symbolics got?

[ch_123]

RJ-11 for Lisp machines.

[EverythingIBM]

Huh, I remember when me and my friend spent over 10 minutes trying to find the power button on the eMacs; obviously we didn't want to ask the teacher because that would just be going too low.

I have one suggestion: power buttons should be on the front (crazy hey?). Heck, they could have made the apple logo into a power button, that would actually be kind of cool, they could make it glow too.

And that link no longer seems to work.

[kishy]

EIBM...sorry to do this but I've just facepalmed at you.

Emacs is a text editor for those who feel the need to use software that creates the false sense of being better than something.

[zXWF]

Huh, I remember when me and my friend spent over 10 minutes trying to find the power button on the eMacs; obviously we didn't want to ask the teacher because that would just be going too low.

I have one suggestion: power buttons should be on the front (crazy hey?). Heck, they could have made the apple logo into a power button, that would actually be kind of cool, they could make it glow too.

And that link no longer seems to work.

I think you are confusing Emacs with eMac. Yes, the naming of the Apple computer was unfortunate.

[ch_123]

EIBM...sorry to do this but I've just facepalmed at you.

He's not the first person to make that mistake, but I find it completely baffling that someone who actually read the thread would realize that it's not about Apple. Is the Apple hatred so strong that every time something that looks Mac related is posted, vitriol has to be spewed?

[kishy]

I certainly hate Apple enough to do it. I do however also like to avoid looking...less observant than I am, even though I still have my weekly blunders around here (typically stems from a fundamental "tl;dr" problem).

[Stevie Wonder]

Yo kids, learn to focus.

Record label don't let me do the 7 minute tracks anymo.  

TL;DR

>

[EverythingIBM]

Show Image

He's not the first person to make that mistake, but I find it completely baffling that someone who actually read the thread would realize that it's not about Apple. Is the Apple hatred so strong that every time something that looks Mac related is posted, vitriol has to be spewed?

Well I was wondering why:
#1 people wrote Emac instead of eMac.
#2 why people would actually like such a monstrosity.

And the link to iMav's page was dead as I heretofore said, so, I'm not going to be looking up an Emac.

[ch_123]

And multiple mentions of "It's for Lisp machines" and a picture of an obviously 70/80s keyboard convinced you that this thread about an eMac?

[EverythingIBM]

And multiple mentions of "It's for Lisp machines" and a picture of an obviously 70/80s keyboard convinced you that this thread about an eMac?

THEY'RE EVERYWHERE:

One cool thing about the eMacs is that you can run them with 130 Hz in 640x480 (obviously they're not running them in 130 Hz in the above picture): I really want to try 320x240; but apple didn't include that resolution.

EDIT: call me crazy, but, I thought that keyboard somehow worked on the eMacs. I know, it's so crazy that I didn't believe it.

[EverythingIBM]

Ah, I found my pictures! I had to do some thing for computer class (it was like a slide show; so, I did one with the eMacs/iMacs and my thinkpad).

Here's the 138Hz, WOOOO!


The one annoying thing (even on iMacs), is that you can sometimes get your windows stuck when they're too big, and that will green button doesn't always work:

(nevermind the fact you can't "maximize" a window, everything just floats around on the screen).

The lone thinkpad amongst the iMacs:

[kishy]

I don't care about refresh rate, screen resolutions below 800x600 are utter death.

[JBert]

If we're resurrecting threads from 2007, I might as well chime in and state that the model F AT is Emacs-friendly.

[EverythingIBM]

If we're resurrecting threads from 2007, I might as well chime in and state that the model F AT is Emacs-friendly.

2007 was a bad year, I think that's when the intellistation M pros were discontinued.

[ch_123]

From the sounds of it, the Filco would be a much nicer keyboard for typing than that linear Symbolics one.

[mrbill]

From the sounds of it, the Filco would be a much nicer keyboard for typing than that linear Symbolics one.

Right, I just want to get a Symbolics keyboard while they're still relatively available.  I've already got a 104-key Filco w/Blues, and *love* it.  After using an MX11800 and a Ricercar SPOS, I finally bit the bullet and ordered the Tenkeyless on Friday.

[Superfluous Parentheses]

If we're resurrecting threads from 2007, I might as well chime in and state that the model F AT is Emacs-friendly.

I can believe that. Though I would think having the bottom modifier keys all the way to the side is annoying. On the model M, moving CTRL to CAPS makes a lot of difference for Emacs work. On the F, you've got no modifier keys next to the space bar.

[zXWF]

Right, I just want to get a Symbolics keyboard while they're still relatively available.  I've already got a 104-key Filco w/Blues, and *love* it.  After using an MX11800 and a Ricercar SPOS, I finally bit the bullet and ordered the Tenkeyless on Friday.

Relatively available? I have searched "everywhere" and have never found anything Would love to have a Symbolics...

[zXWF]

Here or here.

Thanks. What kind of connectors do they use? I guess it's not just "plug & play".

[Specter_57]

..

Interesting keyboard pic, maybe related to the thread...
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Spec_57

[quadibloc]

Yes, that picture is related to the thread, that is the predecessor of the LISP Machine and MacIvory keyboards we've seen pictured previously.

If only our modern-day PCs had keyboards like that!

[mrbill]

For those of you wanting a relatively easy Symbolics-to-USB adapter:

http://netzhansa.blogspot.com/2009/04/how-to-convert-your-symbolics-keyboard.html

[spremino]

Emacs is THE customizable editor. No need for special keyboards. If you don't customize your key bindings, then you are not using Emacs to its fullest (forgot the source).

Ergoemacs is an ergonomic layout for Emacs by Xah Lee and others:

http://xahlee.org/emacs/ergonomic_emacs_keybinding.html

[JBert]

That Ergoemacs layout seems to make sense, I set up Vim in the same way. Maybe I should look at Vimpulse...

[ironcoder]

I thought the perfect Emacs keyboard was the VT101. At least it was when I learned Emacs.

I remember them sucking pretty hard, but then again they were preferable to an IBM 029 (sort of, ok not really) and they weighed several thousand times less.

[ch_123]

There's an IBM 029 lying around in my college... what was wrong with them?

[ironcoder]

Nothing, except that every time you touch the wrong key you get to throw out your card. Made even the worst terminal in the world (which the VT10x arguably were, then and now) seem like heaven in comparison.

Those 029s did have great key action though.

[itlnstln]

They're plans for the iPad!