Author Topic: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac  (Read 4441 times)

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Offline aviphysics

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #50 on: Sat, 16 February 2013, 17:46:41 »
Would the laptop pro work with a PC? I am on the lookout for something like this for my home theater PC.

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #51 on: Sat, 16 February 2013, 18:01:27 »
Would the laptop pro work with a PC? I am on the lookout for something like this for my home theater PC.

Yes, as long as your home theatre PC supports Bluetooth.

The only oddity is that the Alt and Win keys are swapped, but that shouldn't be too much of an issue.

BTW, just out of curiosity, what's the minimal keyset you'd want for a home theatre PC keyboard?


Offline aviphysics

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #52 on: Sat, 16 February 2013, 19:41:27 »
I currently switch back and forth between a Logitech Dinovo Mini and Lenovo N5902. Both of them have acceptable minimal keysets, though I would really like something bigger with proper keys. Both of them have sufficient key sets.

For a HTPC, my ideal media keyboard would have a 60% layout with dedicated arrow keys, sort of like this http://imgur.com/q3SfrH7. Being able to ctrl-alt-del is necessary. If you would really like, I can give you a key by key list of what I think is absolutely necessary.

Some things that would make it better compared to the aforementioned 60% layout, but aren't strictly necessary.
-Backlight that turns off when the keyboard is idle. Configurable timeout would be a very nice feature.

-Some sort of "media" toggle key that would turn the arrow keys into media up, down, left, right keys, turn some of the keys into media keys (play, pause, stop, etc), and disable back light for everything but the the media keys.

-A Thinkpad like keyboard nipple with mouse buttons below the space bar would be ideal. Alternatively, a thumb sized trackpad on the right (The thumb trackpad on the Lenovo N5902 is acceptable (http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/06/lenovo-n5902-ditches-the-fingerprint-magnet-finish-adds-backlit/) with mouse buttons on the left would work. I think good mouse control can really turn a good media keyboard into a great one.

-dedicated Pg Up and Pg Dn can be nice.

-a sleep/wake key would be nice.

-The ability to access F1-F12 through a function key is nice if you want to use the board to configure the bios. None of my current media keyboards have function keys. I plug in a full keyboard when I need to do this, which is very rare. F keys wouldn't really affect my purchasing decision. Other things are much more important to me.

-The ultimate media keyboard would also have a programmable IR blaster for controlling TV, Receiver, etc, but that seems like something of a pipe dream.

Edit:
Guru-Board seems to have the most minimal acceptable layout (still not wireless). http://www.guru-board.com/english/layout_en . This layout has all the required keys, as long as there is a way to Ctr-Alt-Del. A wireless version of this would be acceptable but I think a slightly bigger keyboard might actually be better because it will likely have to sit on your lap. If it is too small, I don't think it would sit nicely on a lap.
« Last Edit: Sat, 16 February 2013, 20:03:22 by aviphysics »

Offline aviphysics

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #53 on: Sun, 17 February 2013, 21:56:00 »

Yes, as long as your home theatre PC supports Bluetooth.

The only oddity is that the Alt and Win keys are swapped, but that shouldn't be too much of an issue.

BTW, just out of curiosity, what's the minimal keyset you'd want for a home theatre PC keyboard?

Are the alt and OS key caps interchangeable?

Also out of curiosity. Should we expect a media oriented wireless board anytime in the near future?



Offline Hyde

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #54 on: Sun, 17 February 2013, 22:34:06 »
Are the alt and OS key caps interchangeable?

Also out of curiosity. Should we expect a media oriented wireless board anytime in the near future?

If you mean Alt and Win keys, then probably not because Win Key is 1x1 and Alt is 1x1.5.  If you mean from a PC board to the Mac board with the respective keys, then probably yes because they're both ALPS keycaps.

And what do you mean media oriented, because both the PC and Mac versions all have built in media keys already (volume, play/pause ... etc).

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Offline aviphysics

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias — USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #55 on: Mon, 18 February 2013, 00:54:10 »
Are the alt and OS key caps interchangeable?

Also out of curiosity. Should we expect a media oriented wireless board anytime in the near future?

If you mean Alt and Win keys, then probably not because Win Key is 1x1 and Alt is 1x1.5.  If you mean from a PC board to the Mac board with the respective keys, then probably yes because they're both ALPS keycaps.

And what do you mean media oriented, because both the PC and Mac versions all have built in media keys already (volume, play/pause ... etc).

I was referring to the Laptop Pro, which as far as I know is one of the few or only compact wireless mechanical keyboard and is designed for Mac. He has said it would work with windows but the "Alt" and "Win" key would be switched. To be honest, I am not entirely sure what this means because the Laptop pro only has option and command.  I am guessing he means that the command key will function as the "Win" key and the option key will function as "Alt".

I didn't think to ask if the media keys on the Laptop Pro would work in windows.

When I asked about a media oriented keyboard, I was referring the question he asked me. Some of the things I think would make a keyboard more media oriented are things I already listed in my previous reply to him. Features like some sort of mouse integration, a media lock key that locks the media keys in media mode and deactivates other keys, backlight, and small changes to ergonomics to make it more adapted to laptop use are all things that make a keyboard more convenient for HTPC use. While practically any keyboard can dish out the necessities a HTPC requires, a basic set of media keys does not make a media oriented keyboard IMO.

Edit: seems like the best alternative might be to replace the electronics in a quickfire Rapid with a wireless keyboard controller. Some pics on the net from someone who do this with a Filco and Logitech Wii keyboard. Doesn't look to hard. If one were to make a custom case, it might be possible to do something really neat with a Logitech K400 trackpad and keyboard controller combined with a QFR.
« Last Edit: Mon, 18 February 2013, 01:24:14 by aviphysics »

Offline Number_25

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 18 February 2013, 01:24:17 »
'Quiet mechanical keyboard'.

Why?

Offline vyshane

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 18 February 2013, 05:03:40 »
'Quiet mechanical keyboard'.

Why?

Because quiet.

Offline vyshane

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #58 on: Mon, 18 February 2013, 05:10:16 »
wait so your saying the bluetooth one is only available for a mac os computer....why cater to something with only a 10% market share instead of catering to all personal computers (yes macs are pcs)


Macs are PCs like you said. Feel free to use the bluetooth keyboard with your PC.

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #59 on: Mon, 18 February 2013, 23:22:44 »
Thanks for taking the time to write up your wishlist for a home theatre mechanical keyboard.  It sounds very cool...

I'd love to do a product like that, but I fear that the cost of integrating a pointing device into it would probably price it out of most peoples' budgets.  Also, I'm not sure how many people out there would want something like that, given how compact and convenient the current offerings are.  That Lenovo keyboard especially looks nicely done.

Regarding the modifier keys, "Option" generates the keycode for "Alt", and "Command" generates the keycode for "Win".


I currently switch back and forth between a Logitech Dinovo Mini and Lenovo N5902. Both of them have acceptable minimal keysets, though I would really like something bigger with proper keys. Both of them have sufficient key sets.

For a HTPC, my ideal media keyboard would have a 60% layout with dedicated arrow keys, sort of like this http://imgur.com/q3SfrH7. Being able to ctrl-alt-del is necessary. If you would really like, I can give you a key by key list of what I think is absolutely necessary.

Some things that would make it better compared to the aforementioned 60% layout, but aren't strictly necessary.
-Backlight that turns off when the keyboard is idle. Configurable timeout would be a very nice feature.

-Some sort of "media" toggle key that would turn the arrow keys into media up, down, left, right keys, turn some of the keys into media keys (play, pause, stop, etc), and disable back light for everything but the the media keys.

-A Thinkpad like keyboard nipple with mouse buttons below the space bar would be ideal. Alternatively, a thumb sized trackpad on the right (The thumb trackpad on the Lenovo N5902 is acceptable (http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/06/lenovo-n5902-ditches-the-fingerprint-magnet-finish-adds-backlit/) with mouse buttons on the left would work. I think good mouse control can really turn a good media keyboard into a great one.

-dedicated Pg Up and Pg Dn can be nice.

-a sleep/wake key would be nice.

-The ability to access F1-F12 through a function key is nice if you want to use the board to configure the bios. None of my current media keyboards have function keys. I plug in a full keyboard when I need to do this, which is very rare. F keys wouldn't really affect my purchasing decision. Other things are much more important to me.

-The ultimate media keyboard would also have a programmable IR blaster for controlling TV, Receiver, etc, but that seems like something of a pipe dream.

Edit:
Guru-Board seems to have the most minimal acceptable layout (still not wireless). http://www.guru-board.com/english/layout_en . This layout has all the required keys, as long as there is a way to Ctr-Alt-Del. A wireless version of this would be acceptable but I think a slightly bigger keyboard might actually be better because it will likely have to sit on your lap. If it is too small, I don't think it would sit nicely on a lap.

Offline Hyde

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #60 on: Mon, 18 February 2013, 23:56:29 »
Yeah basically on a PC Keyboard from left to right you get:

Ctrl  ->  Window  ->  Alt  ->  Spacebar  ->  Alt  ->  Window  ->  Ctrl

On a Mac Keyboard from left to right you get:

Ctrl  ->  Alt/Option  ->  Command  ->  Spacebar  ->  Command  ->  Alt/Option  ->  Ctrl

While Window = Command, Alt = Alt/Option.  So location wise they're swapped between PC and Mac.

So for example, if you plug a Mac keyboard into a PC computer, the window key will be next to the spacebar, instead of 2 keys away.

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Offline aviphysics

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #61 on: Tue, 19 February 2013, 00:11:01 »
Thanks for taking the time to write up your wishlist for a home theatre mechanical keyboard.  It sounds very cool...

I'd love to do a product like that, but I fear that the cost of integrating a pointing device into it would probably price it out of most peoples' budgets.  Also, I'm not sure how many people out there would want something like that, given how compact and convenient the current offerings are.  That Lenovo keyboard especially looks nicely done.

Regarding the modifier keys, "Option" generates the keycode for "Alt", and "Command" generates the keycode for "Win".

Thankyou for answering my questions.

It is a shame integrating a pointing device would make it too expensive.

Regarding the current products, I think the only good one is probably the Logitech K400. The rest all have various problems. For example, the Dinovo Mini has some strange connectivity issues (sometimes we have to take out the battery and put it back in), several keys on the Lenovo are starting to fail (I have had it for less than a year), and we have had a few others that just had poor wireless range (unreliable connectivity at 10 ft).

If the Lenovo gets much worse, maybe I will try breaking it open and seeing if it would be useful for modding into another board.

Offline deepthawt

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #62 on: Tue, 19 February 2013, 08:27:04 »
'Quiet mechanical keyboard'.

Why?


BECAUSE QUIET, SOMETHING THAT IS APPRECIATED BY OTHERS.
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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #63 on: Tue, 19 February 2013, 12:37:12 »
Regarding the current products, I think the only good one is probably the Logitech K400. The rest all have various problems. For example, the Dinovo Mini has some strange connectivity issues (sometimes we have to take out the battery and put it back in), several keys on the Lenovo are starting to fail (I have had it for less than a year), and we have had a few others that just had poor wireless range (unreliable connectivity at 10 ft).

That's interesting.  You don't find the Logitech K400 too big for a home theatre keyboard?


Offline aviphysics

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #64 on: Tue, 19 February 2013, 13:08:08 »
I don't. Using a large TV that can be easily read from the couch, a keyboard only needs to be small enough to easily tuck out of the way and comfortably sit on a lap. Smaller ones can be nice when you are using a small TV and need to stand to get close enough to the screen, but I also haven't found a small one that is reliable and performs well. Don't take my word for it though, you can just look at the customer reviews for the ultra compact multimedia boards and see that there isn't really any single one that people are overwhelmingly happy with. I also think it is pretty telling that there is a problem when the "people who bought this also bought" listings on Amazon are full of very similar products.

Maybe I am just really demanding though. The Favi, which I have had connectivity problems with, has reasonably decent reviews on Amazon. The Dinovo Mini and Lenovo I mentioned also have reasonably good reviews. The other possibility is that quality has gotten better. I bought my Dinovo Mini back in 2009 so who really knows. The final issue is that I have children and roomates, so something the size of a remote needs to be ably to take a lot of abuse. People are less likely to toss around a larger keyboard.

Here is a picture of someone holding the K400 for size
http://i.imgur.com/c42TMuy.jpg

It really isn't very big. Looks about the size of a TKL.
« Last Edit: Tue, 19 February 2013, 13:30:45 by aviphysics »

Offline Pyrolistical

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #65 on: Wed, 20 February 2013, 18:07:38 »
Mine came.

It feel like something between mx cherry blue and brown, but much quieter.

The first issue I found with it is the lower right rubber foot isn't touching the table, so the keyboard is sliding around a bit.

One nice touch was a short and long came was included.  This way if you had an iMac you can use the short one, otherwise the longer one if your mac mini is further.

Offline ValerieV

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #66 on: Wed, 20 February 2013, 18:10:45 »
I am jealous. Still waiting for my keyboard to come. Which model did you get?

Offline uzoc

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #67 on: Wed, 20 February 2013, 18:19:23 »
Mine came.

It feel like something between mx cherry blue and brown, but much quieter.

The first issue I found with it is the lower right rubber foot isn't touching the table, so the keyboard is sliding around a bit.

One nice touch was a short and long came was included.  This way if you had an iMac you can use the short one, otherwise the longer one if your mac mini is further.

I'm waiting for the the Mini Quiet Pro (black), to go down to $100 (probably when Amazon gets it) and then buy a white one, so I can start doing some keycaps swapping (black & white of course).

Offline Pyrolistical

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #68 on: Wed, 20 February 2013, 18:46:35 »
I
I am jealous. Still waiting for my keyboard to come. Which model did you get?

I got the mini tactile pro for Mac

Offline ValerieV

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #69 on: Wed, 20 February 2013, 18:56:50 »
That's the one i am waiting on. They said they would send me an email when it was being shipped and i did preorder it for the February run. I hope to get it soon. Thanks for the response.

Offline BucklingSpring

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 20 February 2013, 20:31:38 »
Matias - Will you be on time for the Feb batch?

I'm really looking forward to that MINI Quiet for PC.
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Offline iri

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #71 on: Wed, 27 February 2013, 08:38:31 »
when will these be shipped? i ordered mine on january the 9th, and paid for it, and there's still no shipment notice.
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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #72 on: Thu, 28 February 2013, 04:21:27 »
Very sorry for the delay.  We were pretty overwhelmed with the number of orders we got for them -- which is good and bad.

We're expecting to get another shipment before the end of March.  Due to the high demand, we'll be flying them in (at great expense) and will ship them out as soon as we get them.

Regarding the credit card charges, that unfortunately is a limitation of our online store provider.  They are not able to do deferred charges.  To compensate for this, we give everyone who pre-orders FREE shipping.

Again, sorry for the delay.  We're doing everything we can to get everyone their orders ASAP.

« Last Edit: Thu, 28 February 2013, 23:35:00 by Matias »

Offline ValerieV

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #73 on: Thu, 28 February 2013, 05:49:04 »
At least this is good because it is in demand so you obviously tapped into something the public wanted. I do appreciate your great customer service. Thank you for keeping us updated.

Offline danj

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #74 on: Thu, 28 February 2013, 22:46:15 »
The Laptop Pro looks fantastic. Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere: how does one switch between devices (iPad and MacBook, for example)?

I'm thinking of what the KBTalKing Pro apparently does: http://kbtalkingusa.com/kbtalking-pro-basic-info/

Quote
Furthermore, the patent-pending multi-pairing technology allows for instant switching between a PC/Mac (via USB) and any of the paired Bluetooth devices.

That "patent-pending" may answer my question for me. How does the Laptop Pro pair with a device, and does this have to be redone each time one connects to a different device?

In short, will switching between my Mac and iPad with this keyboard be a pain in the neck? :)

Offline danj

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #75 on: Tue, 02 April 2013, 15:46:10 »
...While I apologise for apparently killing this thread with my very first post, I suppose I should answer my own question.

Granted, this is information from a competitor, but assuming this KBtalkKing post is correct (emphasis mine):

Quote
The Tactile One uses permanent USB connection to a computer, and connection to one HID supported BT device. Needs re-pairing if changing to a different BT device.

It seems likely that the Laptop Pro is similar, and would need to be re-paired when switching between devices. I'd be happy to know if this is or is not in fact the case!

Offline fatmav

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #76 on: Tue, 02 April 2013, 16:35:54 »
It seems likely that the Laptop Pro is similar, and would need to be re-paired when switching between devices. I'd be happy to know if this is or is not in fact the case!

I am typing on a Laptop Pro now. My experience is indeed you need to re-associate every time when you switch devices.

Offline danj

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #77 on: Thu, 04 April 2013, 18:27:08 »
Ah, thank you for the confirmation. How do you like the Laptop Pro otherwise? :)

Offline fatmav

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #78 on: Thu, 04 April 2013, 21:02:40 »
Ah, thank you for the confirmation. How do you like the Laptop Pro otherwise? :)

The keyboard layout of the Laptop Pro is the primary reason why I bought it. So far it has not disappointed me in this regard. I very much appreciate the dedicated page up and page down keys. The forward delete key is also good, but I use it much less often due to far away placement.

The key switches themselves are fine. Not as crisp as I'd like them to be, but my officemate very much appreciates the dramatic reduction in noise. Previously I primarily use an mx brown, and occasionally an mx blue.

The key caps are my main worry right now. The printing on some of the modifiers (such as command) is already fading a bit after a month of usage. What good would having the symbols of the alternative keys (such as the european characters you input with Alt+key) if the symbols fade away?

The bluetooth link has been good so far.

The battery life seems excellent. I have never charged it since leaving the keyboard plugged in on the first night after arrival.

Oh, and the USB ports: they really don't seem to do anything other than charging the keyboard itself and also letting you charge other downstream device. (In theory, you can use the keyboard's battery to charge another device. But I don't know why you would want to do that.)

Offline CiiDub

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Re: Tenkeyless ALPS models from Matias USB for PC, Bluetooth for Mac
« Reply #79 on: Wed, 01 May 2013, 21:31:10 »
Quote
The February production run of the Bluetooth model is sold out, so we're now taking pre-orders for March on that one.  The Wall Street Journal reviewed it on Saturday, & the resulting sales pushed us over the edge.

I saw that article and thought it might have something to do the keyboard being in short supply.

I ordered mine after seeing a write up on The Loop. I've been waiting a while for a compact (ten keyless) + mechanical + bluetooth keyboard. The CES announcement got me pretty excited.  So I for one, am not surprised that you discovered some pent-up demand. I was actually going to give up & buy a Filco for that ten-keyless mechanical goodness :)

I'm still waiting, still excited & a little frustrated. It's getting to be a very long wait. S**t happens & s**t get's delayed. I've had some correspondence about the delays, but I've had to initiate it. That sucks.

Still I am confidant that I'll love the keyboard. My first mechanical one since my model M via 1992.