Sales and resales of keycaps for profit

[phetto]

about kmiller8 bought a keyboard to proxy for him

[Gupgup]

about kmiller8 bought a keyboard to proxy for him

Ohhh I thought you misunderstood when he said " I know some caps I traded you are worth more than what you're selling them for"

I thought you were talking about that, my bad

[Sifo]

Oh man MMB sold the LZ-S? I wanted that so badly. Well, I have one now anyway. I think this topic is, and always has been silly. Just don't buy **** you don't think is fairly priced. I always sell **** for low because I just want it to sell and to make someone happy, not to profit. I never buy something that I think is stupidly priced, but I buy to support a cause or person. Other people wanna scheme a buck, whatever. As long as someone's gonna buy it, they're gonna do it, there isn't something that isn't absolutely outrageous that we can do about it really. Other than get rid of auctions.

Oh wait I think I saw your LZ-S for sale. But no international -_- and the pink CC...

[kmiller8]

But no international -_-

You could have tried to find a proxy.. oh wait

<3 u sifoooooooooooooo

[Sifo]

With my luck, MMB shipping an LZ-S would not end well.

[The_Beast]

Oh man MMB sold the LZ-S? I wanted that so badly. Well, I have one now anyway. I think this topic is, and always has been silly. Just don't buy **** you don't think is fairly priced. I always sell **** for low because I just want it to sell and to make someone happy, not to profit. I never buy something that I think is stupidly priced, but I buy to support a cause or person. Other people wanna scheme a buck, whatever. As long as someone's gonna buy it, they're gonna do it, there isn't something that isn't absolutely outrageous that we can do about it really. Other than get rid of auctions.

Oh wait I think I saw your LZ-S for sale. But no international -_- and the pink CC...

I have your pink....

it's really nice

[Sifo]

Bro. Don't make me come over there.

[The_Beast]

Bro. Don't make me come over there.

It's my 3rd favorite after purple and orangesicle

[Sifo]

Bro. Don't make me come over there.

It's my 3rd favorite after purple and orangesicle

Then kindly bring it over here ^^ I really miss it. Unless you're gonna resell it for profit!

[The_Beast]

I only keep clacks I like. If I resell, you'll know I'm in trouble

[noisyturtle]

I am all for transparency is business because it creates an assurance for both parties, and so if you think about the GH community as a company it is beneficial to know who is/isn't upholding deals but knowing what information could be potentially caustic is fair. But then again, this is the internet. On the 'other' topic raised, if someone sells something they own for a huge markup that's their prerogative but they must always remember that it will reflect on them in future sales or trades. I have no real problem with flipping other then the regret caused to the original seller. But pragmatically, there is nothing to argue if someone finds a buyer for something who is willing to pay way above face value, each party gets what they want. The buyer obviously doesn't care about premiums if they are happy to fork over large sums money, and the seller makes a nice margin on it. People are hoping for too much moral obligation attached to the word community when buying and selling. People who do sell things at or below cost(or give away) are great for GH, but this should by no means be expected to be the norm.
Yeah I am a capitalist, so sue me.

[IPT]

btw i totally never realized it was a rule to keep the price in the thread, as everyone i've seen doing business in classified deletes the item/price.

To be fair, its just easier to delete items that are sold, or just delete the price and note it as sold
if you leave a price up on the item, people may think its still available because of the price.

Anyway, people can run their sell threads however they want.  This "community" doesn't dictate what items you can buy, what items you can sell, and what prices they should be.
Just look back to the 420 CC, didn't one go for $300+?

[okooko]

btw i totally never realized it was a rule to keep the price in the thread, as everyone i've seen doing business in classified deletes the item/price.

To be fair, its just easier to delete items that are sold, or just delete the price and note it as sold
if you leave a price up on the item, people may think its still available because of the price.

Anyway, people can run their sell threads however they want.  This "community" doesn't dictate what items you can buy, what items you can sell, and what prices they should be.
Just look back to the 420 CC, didn't one go for $300+?

Yeah I remember the 420CC going for iirc $200+ not sure if it reach 300 though.
I think the general concensis is pretty much 'if both parties are willing then theres nothing wrong'
Which is obviously all good.

I think what I meant for this thread was more of 'buy for cheaps' and 'sell for heaps', loosely use those terms but you get the idea.
Although its not wrong, but it does leave a sour taste in the eyes of the seller who previously sold them under the impression that the items will go to a good home.

Its like seeing 'free to a good home' ads in the paper for pets then knowing the person just ended up selling your old dog. probably not that relevant but i get pissed.

[nntnam]

@everyone, I'm really sorry to cause this problem and a war here. Phetto and I had some nice conversation and we could understanding each others now. My point is stated in my sale thread and is still unchanged. But when I realize that phetto actually sold that caps to me lower than what he purchased, I felt like I'm an ass-hole. I hope I knew this fact sooner. I didn't apologize him in my thread but I would like to do it publicly here. Hope you would accept my apology, phetto.

@phetto, if you have some free time, please say something about this.

[okooko]

@everyone, I'm really sorry to cause this problem and a war here. Phetto and I had some nice conversation and we could understanding each others now. My point is stated in my sale thread and is still unchanged. But when I realize that phetto actually sold that caps to me lower than what he purchased, I felt like I'm an ass-hole. I hope I knew this fact sooner. I didn't apologize him in my thread but I would like to do it publicly here. Hope you would accept my apology, phetto.

@phetto, if you have some free time, please say something about this.

nntnam, as the thread starter, I just like to say I have absolutely no beef with you. I took the opportunity with your thread to gauge how the community though about it and did not purposely try to single you out (as mentionned in the OP), if you feel singled out by my post, then I apologise it was not my intention.

As many have mentionned previously there is nothing wrong with your sale (most of the thread keeps going back to saying how CC's are overpriced) but yeah, Ive discovered that as long as there is supply and demand and an agreeable price between parties, then there is nothing misleading or sinister about the trade regardless of what the sellers intentions were to begin with.

[akuJIWA]

Something is wrong with this, I'm not sure why people are mad or maybe because someone sold something higher than the market price, it's like the community restricts the freedom of the seller. If the price is too high, no one will buy them, if there are people buying them then they are willing buyers, isn't that just easy to understand? Why is everyone so butthurt about it? If you guys are butthurt, why not do it in pm instead of crapping someone's thread? Does it make you all mighty and proud to gang on one person as to what he does is not wrong at all? I have no problem with him selling high or low, I bought a keyboard from nntnam, although it took a few days because of my pay, but we eventually came up with a deal and we settled it rather easy and professionally, and bam, I got the keyboard 3 days later. I'm sure for him to sell me that keyboard was really hurtful to him and the price he sold me was not justified at all for him, but he needed the money. Sometimes I'm even afraid of selling something in this forum because I needed the money or else a bunch of hyenas gang up on me.

[okooko]

Something is wrong with this, I'm not sure why people are mad or maybe because someone sold something higher than the market price, it's like the community restricts the freedom of the seller. If the price is too high, no one will buy them, if there are people buying them then they are willing buyers, isn't that just easy to understand? Why is everyone so butthurt about it? If you guys are butthurt, why not do it in pm instead of crapping someone's thread? Does it make you all mighty and proud to gang on one person as to what he does is not wrong at all? I have no problem with him selling high or low, I bought a keyboard from nntnam, although it took a few days because of my pay, but we eventually came up with a deal and we settled it rather easy and professionally, and bam, I got the keyboard 3 days later. I'm sure for him to sell me that keyboard was really hurtful to him and the price he sold me was not justified at all for him, but he needed the money. Sometimes I'm even afraid of selling something in this forum because I needed the money or else a bunch of hyenas gang up on me.

I was aiming for a discussion on the resale of items given that the items were purchased significantly less than the resale value and what peoples thoughts were on it.
But as always, the thread eluded this within the first few posts and conformed to the historically long running discussion of how CCs are just flat out expensive.

I never said nntnam was a bad dude, and if he felt singled out, I did apologise to him in an earlier post. I understand Phetto's initial disappointment in the sale though.

[phetto]

Thank you for understanding nntnam. Everything is good


edit: Listen to this guys, nntnam acctually gave me money that he got from the sale he made. At first I refused to accept, but he kept insisting. Thats community spirit for ya.

[Sifo]

Idk how many of you were around, but does any one else remember when we ****ing hated Nokcha because we thought he was reselling groupbuy keycaps on his ebay for more money? And how did that turn out. Nokcha's an awesome guy who's just trying to run a store and provide novelty caps for the community. <3

Everyone has their intentions and their side of the story. Most important thing to always remember is to not jump to conclusions. This thread is full of that.

[akuJIWA]

Something is wrong with this, I'm not sure why people are mad or maybe because someone sold something higher than the market price, it's like the community restricts the freedom of the seller. If the price is too high, no one will buy them, if there are people buying them then they are willing buyers, isn't that just easy to understand? Why is everyone so butthurt about it? If you guys are butthurt, why not do it in pm instead of crapping someone's thread? Does it make you all mighty and proud to gang on one person as to what he does is not wrong at all? I have no problem with him selling high or low, I bought a keyboard from nntnam, although it took a few days because of my pay, but we eventually came up with a deal and we settled it rather easy and professionally, and bam, I got the keyboard 3 days later. I'm sure for him to sell me that keyboard was really hurtful to him and the price he sold me was not justified at all for him, but he needed the money. Sometimes I'm even afraid of selling something in this forum because I needed the money or else a bunch of hyenas gang up on me.

I was aiming for a discussion on the resale of items given that the items were purchased significantly less than the resale value and what peoples thoughts were on it.
But as always, the thread eluded this within the first few posts and conformed to the historically long running discussion of how CCs are just flat out expensive.

I never said nntnam was a bad dude, and if he felt singled out, I did apologise to him in an earlier post. I understand Phetto's initial disappointment in the sale though.

I understand his frustration, but the things that other members did is just hurtful, I've seen people selling what I sold them for x2 price and there was someone who sold what I gave them in like a week later too. It's just sad but I never bothered about it. I see someone selling high I just laugh it off and walk away. But... Sigh.. I guess everyone can't be the same

[akuJIWA]

Idk how many of you were around, but does any one else remember when we ****ing hated Nokcha because we thought he was reselling groupbuy keycaps on his ebay for more money? And how did that turn out. Nokcha's an awesome guy who's just trying to run a store and provide novelty caps for the community. <3

Everyone has their intentions and their side of the story. Most important thing to always remember is to not jump to conclusions. This thread is full of that.

Yeap!

[nntnam]

Thank you for understanding nntnam. Everything is good


edit: Listen to this guys, nntnam acctually gave me money that he got from the sale he made. At first I refused to accept, but he kept insisting. Thats community spirit for ya.

Thank phetto.

[Krogenar]

Come on guys - you are a bunch of grown men fighting over little pieces of colored plastic.

Be happy you have a roof over your head and food in your stomach.

Here, here --- first world problems.

I don't think there should be any issue with people flipping items. They're all taking a risk. If someone participates in a groupbuy and they then sell those keys, etc. at a higher price that's not anti-community, etc. Those people took a risk -- maybe the item would be crappy, or be of high quality but ugly. They took the risk, and so they have the right to sell at any price they like. If it was too high a price, well, why are people paying it? The people who are willing to pay more for those items are the people who did not take the earlier risk.

Also, I think people who organize groupbuys should be not upset by this -- hey, be gratified! You helped create something that is of value. And if some 'greedy' (terrible word) people decide to become groupbuy flippers, that's fine so long as they pay their initial fees. That will only encourage more people to enter groupbuys to avoid paying more later.

[CPTBadAss]

Even if there was a pricing guide, which I believe is loosely being made (in a CC's thread - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39794.0#post_Price) courtesy of CPTBadAss.
Its probably the best thing we have at the moment.

One last thing, I'm pretty sure many people know who much these go for normally, but the guys that are snapping them up for higher prices probably have the money and wont mind paying premium for it.

Bit off topic for the thread but I was thinking about tracking prices more and adding it into the thread. I just wasn't sure if people were looking for that. I couldn't tell you how much clacks go for retail since I'm new (I believe the candy corn/ocktoberfest clacks were like $28 from EK) but I have been keeping tabs on prices in the classifieds.

If there's interest in this info, I'd be glad to add it to my thread. And if you want there to be comprehensive info, please PM me with any info you guys have. It's definitely easier with more eyes helping me out.

Edit: I forgot this but thanks for the shoutout okooko

[samwisekoi]

I think a pricing index would be very good to have.  Sadly, I have no data to contribute.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[IvanIvanovich]

Some of you ultra capitalists are just nuts, also some of socialists too. There needs to be some balance is all that I think most people are saying. It does hurt the community as a whole to have people being what I view as predatory. QUIT defending these predators it is not helping anyone.
I hate the no threadcrapping rule too. I think we should be able to call people out on these things for any potential buyer to see as long as there is no personal attacking.

[samwisekoi]

Some of you ultra capitalists are just nuts, also some of socialists too. There needs to be some balance is all that I think most people are saying. It does hurt the community as a whole to have people being what I view as predatory. QUIT defending these predators it is not helping anyone.
I hate the no threadcrapping rule too. I think we should be able to call people out on these things for any potential buyer to see as long as there is no personal attacking.

Agreed for the most part.

Q1: Lysol, should an OP be able to request "no thread-crapping" in his or her own thread?

Q2: Lysol, if an off-topic sub-thread develops and begins to flourish in a classified posting, should it be split out into its own thread and put in the right sub-forum?

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[The_Beast]

2 threads for every FS thread to discuss

[jdcarpe]

There is actually no rule against threadcrapping in the new TOS or the new Buying and Selling guidelines. Those were the old rules. It's an urban legend that won't go away, but some moderators are willing to enforce it. There need to be some guidelines in place for uniform moderation.

[hashbaz]

The mods have been actively discussing classifieds policy over the past couple of days.  It's true that we've been unclear and inconsistent at times; we're working on it.

[IvanIvanovich]

Comments about the item, or it's price should be allowed and kept in the classifieds thread regardless if the seller like them or not. If things get personal or nasty, then I think it is ok to report it to moderation for action. Things getting off topic can be debatable, if it's semi relevant in some way... fine, but If someone comes in and starts talking about what they had for breakfast it doesn't really need to stay there.

[The_Beast]

Things getting off topic can be debatable, if it's semi relevant in some way... fine, but If someone comes in and starts talking about what they had for breakfast it doesn't really need to stay there.

BUT I NEED TO KNOW THAT!!!!!

[jdcarpe]

Thanks for the info hash. I know you guys are on top of things.

As you can see, from this thread and the original, things worked out fine in the end. No need to create new threads for this type of discussion. Just have your say in the thread, and end it there. But really, other people don't need to step in and defend one side or the other. Clack sales have been discussed ad nauseum here, and we already know everyone's position by now. It should have been left between nntnam and phetto.

[Lanx]

Not even just keycaps, or for profit. Someone flipped their **** on me because I proxied a Korean board to someone that they refused to deal with purely because they are out of the US :/

Telling half of the story, I see. The actual story was that you didn't bother mentioning it to me, and did it behind my back. You acted like you were buying the keyboard for yourself.
Don't tell half-stories.

from this story
guyA is buying from guyB

guyA doesn't tell guyB that guyA is buying for guyC

what the hell does it matter to guyB what guyA does?

if you sell, you sell

if you want to put a disclaimer of your products, go ahead then it would be fine
"i want to sell things, you're not allowed to buy for other ppl, just because"

ok

but otherwise what do you care?

if this were true, CC would be the maddest person around and put a disclaimer "for collector use only, please don't make monies and resell these keycaps"

and you know what, this does hurt the community, this very thread is the issue.

with every resold CC there is, there is always gonna be a 20% markup at least half the time.

sure some ppl will be like "CC for sale, for 40bucks please, i just want to make my money back"

some others will be like
"CC for sale for 50bucks please, i just want 10extra bucks cuz i'll miss the item"

then the next guy will be like
"CC for sale for 60bucks please, i just want 10extra bucks cuz i'll miss the item"

then you have idiots like ripster who use CC's to bribe ppl

[Sifo]

What are you talking about Ripster doesn't care about CCs and thinks you guys are all silly for caring so much about them.

He used to joke about it because he got hookups to tease people.

Also the LZ sale, idk. Seems really silly to me. I wouldn't care if someone wanted to proxy; would just consider it a miscommunication

[Lanx]

The mods have been actively discussing classifieds policy over the past couple of days.  It's true that we've been unclear and inconsistent at times; we're working on it.

charge them! every wts/wtt needs moderator approval
a $2 paypal posting fee
and then 5% to 10% of all profits afterwards will again go to paypal, if not, then they are banned from making/requesting another wts/wtt thread and Marked

GH isn't a free no fee ebay! but it's been used as such, and it seems that we're just getting more mods and more admins, just so that they can monitor the selling forum.

CHARGE ppl!

[The_Beast]

The mods have been actively discussing classifieds policy over the past couple of days.  It's true that we've been unclear and inconsistent at times; we're working on it.

charge them! every wts/wtt needs moderator approval
a $2 paypal posting fee
and then 5% to 10% of all profits afterwards will again go to paypal, if not, then they are banned from making/requesting another wts/wtt thread and Marked

GH isn't a free no fee ebay! but it's been used as such, and it seems that we're just getting more mods and more admins, just so that they can monitor the selling forum.

CHARGE ppl!

Uhmmmmmmm yeaaaaaaaa, **** that. I'd move to another site

[tjcaustin]

The mods have been actively discussing classifieds policy over the past couple of days.  It's true that we've been unclear and inconsistent at times; we're working on it.

charge them! every wts/wtt needs moderator approval
a $2 paypal posting fee
and then 5% to 10% of all profits afterwards will again go to paypal, if not, then they are banned from making/requesting another wts/wtt thread and Marked

GH isn't a free no fee ebay! but it's been used as such, and it seems that we're just getting more mods and more admins, just so that they can monitor the selling forum.

CHARGE ppl!

Uhmmmmmmm yeaaaaaaaa, **** that. I'd move to another site

No, it would just move all transactions to PMs and there'd just be a forum full of WTB threads.

[Lanx]

why? this actually protects the buyer,
the buyer now knows that the seller is serious, because the seller has already paid for a listing fee, and is in a way is sort of vetted, by at least having mod/admin approval to sell.

how many auctions or wts/wtt threads have we seen

NVM! i don't want to sell it anymore, i love this clickclack! (but really i didn't the 40% markup i was looking for)

[Lanx]

The mods have been actively discussing classifieds policy over the past couple of days.  It's true that we've been unclear and inconsistent at times; we're working on it.

charge them! every wts/wtt needs moderator approval
a $2 paypal posting fee
and then 5% to 10% of all profits afterwards will again go to paypal, if not, then they are banned from making/requesting another wts/wtt thread and Marked

GH isn't a free no fee ebay! but it's been used as such, and it seems that we're just getting more mods and more admins, just so that they can monitor the selling forum.

CHARGE ppl!

Uhmmmmmmm yeaaaaaaaa, **** that. I'd move to another site

No, it would just move all transactions to PMs and there'd just be a forum full of WTB threads.

oh even better, less junk to deal with,
charge 2$ paypal fee to list a wtb

[IvanIvanovich]

I think just having the ability to give constructive criticism about a sale thread is enough to get a handle on the situation without it being censored anymore. Sure it would be nice for more seller (full disclosure, not even I have done so) to kick back something to GH if they want for the privilege of using the forum for profit sales, but making it a requirement might be a little out of step.
I don't feel that auctions have a place here though. Not everyone is an asshat, but it is too easy for shill bidding and general dishonesty especially for those that allow PM bids as no one else really has a clear view of what is actually happening.

[Alessandro]

As lysol has said, threadcrapping is fine as long as there are no unjust personal attacks.

[Lanx]

thread crapping or anything beyond "seller is great A++++" will always be taken as a personal attack, cuz it's a personal thread really.

[IvanIvanovich]

No, not to any rational person. There is a huge difference between a comment like, 'hey you know you can buy aX item from X place for new for X amount and your price might be a bit high' or 'that item usually sells for more like $XX price in used market' vs 'hey douchenozzle you are a ripoff *******'. As long as you are trying to help both the seller (make a sale eventually) and buyers (get for a fair price), it is not personal.

[whiskerBox]

I don't understand if you guys were so worried about profit why not return the profit to the buyer instead of the first seller?

[jdcarpe]

^ phetto sold them at a loss to nntnam as a "good-guy" gesture.

[whiskerBox]

^ phetto sold them at a loss to nntnam as a "good-guy" gesture.

Ah makes sense then, guess thats what I get for just skimming the thread. Carry on lol

[IPT]

Well if you look at my sell thread you can see there was lots of threadcrapping with me trying to sell my Bose headphones. Personally I don't thinkbthats constructive at all

[Gupgup]

Well if you look at my sell thread you can see there was lots of threadcrapping with me trying to sell my Bose headphones. Personally I don't thinkbthats constructive at all

Yeah degrading someone's product they are trying to sell is definitely unacceptable.

[sth]

Well if you look at my sell thread you can see there was lots of threadcrapping with me trying to sell my Bose headphones. Personally I don't thinkbthats constructive at all

Yeah degrading someone's product they are trying to sell is definitely unacceptable.

people should know that those headphones have a sound signature that many people really dislike. however i didnt read the thread so i dont know how bad it got.

i pretty much agree with everything lysol is saying. moving to a constructive classifieds section would help to stabilize prices and maybe return some expensive items to reasonable costs over time.

as far as a free market goes... GH is not a free market if you cannot say anything you want in somebody's thread.
if you advocate for 'no threadcrapping' policies then you are absolutely promoting market regulation, which aren't a bad thing, but the cognitive dissonance going on is astounding -- or people are just being honest. being that we're a big bunch of nerdy nerds i'm gonna have to unfortunately assume that the latter is more often the case.