Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)

[CPTBadAss]

Are they being sold or were they only a limited time kind of thing?

I think there was two GB runs. SP might have them on their site. I haven't paid attention to them though. You might have better luck looking for them in the Classifieds.

[E3E]

Are they being sold or were they only a limited time kind of thing?

I think there was two GB runs. SP might have them on their site. I haven't paid attention to them though. You might have better luck looking for them in the Classifieds.

Yeah, I heard that they were being sold on the site recently, like today recently, but I'm not seeing them. I might be blind though! Good thing I'm not a rabid fan of the set, or I'd be going crazy trying to get it right now. 

[alienman82]

removed.

[CPTBadAss]

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Are these Acer Kb101a's with blue alps?

Lol uh...maybe? It's hard to say without pulling the caps or seeing the back labels. I thought Acer boards had the Acer Alps-clones too. Wasn't aware they came with SKCM as well.

[alienman82]

removed.

[CPTBadAss]

I'm messaging the seller.  I didn't realize they could have clone switches.  Good thing you mentioned that.  Thank you

Here's some info on them. They're not bad. They're just not SKCM.

And just for future reference, yes Acer KB-101As shipped with SKCM Blues. TIL.

[alienman82]

removed.

[E3E]

I'm messaging the seller.  I didn't realize they could have clone switches.  Good thing you mentioned that.  Thank you

Here's some info on them. They're not bad. They're just not SKCM.

And just for future reference, yes Acer KB-101As shipped with SKCM Blues. TIL.

Thank you undisputed alps champion!

Yeah, there is the Acer 6011 which can sometimes have the same case as an Acer KB-101A, though MOSTLY only with Acer switches, but...

Not ALL the time! http://imgur.com/a/Yni4I

This is one that clearly looks like an Acer KB-101A but is a 6011. However, it doesn't have Acer switches or SKCM Blue. It has genuine Alps SKCM White switches.

Some 6011s don't even look like alike!

The Alps generation was a very sporadic and unpredictable time when it came to keyboard switches. There are tons of examples of models that came with multiple kinds of switches. The Wang is a huge example AFAIK, because it came with Salmon, Orange, or Black switches.

The Fame I have in my signature has SKCM Blue Alps, but most Fames look very different and have either TaiHao APC switches or Tai Hao Aruz.

The Chicony 5161 can have either SKCM White, SKCM Blue, Mitsumi, Omron, or even Cherry MX.

The Focus FK-2001 can have SKCM White or Blue or even clones.

It's kind of a gamble with Alps unless there are clear identifiers like the FCC ID, serial number ranges, or case styles and layouts. It's kind of a fun aspect when it comes to hunting down Alps boards, imo.

[CPTBadAss]

It's kind of a gamble with Alps unless there are clear identifiers like the FCC ID, serial number ranges, or case styles and layouts. It's kind of a fun aspect when it comes to hunting down Alps boards, imo.

Yup. I couldn't have said it any better. That's why I always say I need a picture of the caps pulled and a picture of the back.

[tofgerl]

Sure, like buying a lottery ticket with your last few coins is "fun"...

[ideus]

Can MX switches with diodes take LEDs?

[CPTBadAss]

Can MX switches with diodes take LEDs?

Not if the Diodes are installed.

[ideus]

Can MX switches with diodes take LEDs?

Not if the Diodes are installed.

Are there any better than regular switches along with diodes installed on the PCB?

[CPTBadAss]

Are there any better than regular switches along with diodes installed on the PCB?

I don't understand this question. Could you please rephrase?

[ideus]

Are there any better than regular switches along with diodes installed on the PCB?

I don't understand this question. Could you please rephrase?

Sure, I wonder if the MX switches that come with diodes already installed inside their housing work in some way better than regular ones, that requires the diodes to be installed on the PCB, as most of the switches are.

[CPTBadAss]

Sure, I wonder if the MX switches that come with diodes already installed inside their housing work in some way better than regular ones, that requires the diodes to be installed on the PCB, as most of the switches are.

Got it. I think the design of the in-switch diodes preceeds the development of LEDs in keyboards. I don't think they're better or worse. Just a different usage.

[ideus]

Sure, I wonder if the MX switches that come with diodes already installed inside their housing work in some way better than regular ones, that requires the diodes to be installed on the PCB, as most of the switches are.

Got it. I think the design of the in-switch diodes preceeds the development of LEDs in keyboards. I don't think they're better or worse. Just a different usage.

Thank you, and I am sorry for the poor wording in the first question.

[CPTBadAss]

Thank you, and I am sorry for the poor wording in the first question.

No need to apologize. I just want to make sure I'm understanding what you're asking.

[mszy52]

what are people's experiance with Cherry Browns as apposed to other cherry or even off brand switches?

[swimmingbird]

In regards to GMK, can they pad print anything (legend wise) or do they have set legends like with their doubleshots?

[Melvang]

Can MX switches with diodes take LEDs?

Not if the Diodes are installed.

If there are pads for the LED's one could potentially remove the diodes from inside the switch, and solder them on the back side with he diode on the other side of the PCB.  Though one would want to solder the LED's first, then install the diodes.  Though I don't know of any PCBs that would support this aside from Enablers.

[ideus]

Can MX switches with diodes take LEDs?

Not if the Diodes are installed.

If there are pads for the LED's one could potentially remove the diodes from inside the switch, and solder them on the back side with he diode on the other side of the PCB.  Though one would want to solder the LED's first, then install the diodes.  Though I don't know of any PCBs that would support this aside from Enablers.

Do these switches require special PCBs?

[jonathanyu]

Can MX switches with diodes take LEDs?

Not if the Diodes are installed.

If there are pads for the LED's one could potentially remove the diodes from inside the switch, and solder them on the back side with he diode on the other side of the PCB.  Though one would want to solder the LED's first, then install the diodes.  Though I don't know of any PCBs that would support this aside from Enablers.

Do these switches require special PCBs?

they are just normal cherry mx. you can use them on any mx board if you remove the diodes inside the switches

[CPTBadAss]

what are people's experiance with Cherry Browns as apposed to other cherry or even off brand switches?

This isn't really a simple question. There's plenty of threads about the topic though if you search. Very subjective.

[ika]

Are Gateron Black springs the same bottom-out weight as Cherry Black springs? Gateron lists them at 50g and Cherry Blacks are listed at 60cN.

[CPTBadAss]

Are Gateron Black springs the same bottom-out weight as Cherry Black springs? Gateron lists them at 50g and Cherry Blacks are listed at 60cN.

I think you answered your own question. Unless Gaterons are measuring at a different spot but the DT wiki says it's measured at acuation as well.

[alienman82]

removed.

[CPTBadAss]

So, I got these pictures, but seller refuses to pop off a cap since he's never done it before:

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I'm 90% sure those are Acer switches. I bought an Acer 6011 for the caps. The board had Black Acer switches.

[alienman82]

removed.

[CPTBadAss]

I mean they are only $30 shipped each, but should I?  Thanks for the help CPTBADASS

I dunno. I didn't like the Acer switches enough to want to keep the board as is. I guess if you really want those caps since that layout is cool? But it seems a shame to tear apart a board just for caps. Even though I did it....I'm the worst.

[alienman82]

removed.

[E3E]

So, I got these pictures, but seller refuses to pop off a cap since he's never done it before:

Show Image

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In conclusion:

Okay, I found a lot out and I think there's a lot of confusion here because Acer reused that case design across three or so different model ranges.

The KB-101A, the 6011, and the 6311-K.

The 6311 series is what has Acer switches.

All 6011 models have some form of SKCM clicky switch. They could have blue or white, but considering the MFG date is in the brink of the new decade, I don't think these will have blue alps. They will likely have white alps though. Which means they could be nice for a switch swap of your choice. If you like the style of the KB101A but don't like the price, the 6011 makes a good lookalike.

Below is my crazy sleuthing for posterity:

UPDATE EDIT:

After some further observation on those boards in comparison to the white Alps one here: http://imgur.com/a/Yni4I

...The one example he showed the label of (those two pictures are duplicates, same serial #) has a MFG date earlier than the one shown with white Alps, so it very well could have white alps. The odds of finding blue alps in anything past the late 80s is very unlikely though.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Acer-6011-Vintage-Mechanical-Keyboard-PS-2-Tested-Working-/261579910636?nma=true&si=k6ICFVEof38ltWuPPmm7Zfn9SZ0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

If you look here, this one also has white switches. Given that the boards you linked are in between the dates of two boards that have white alps, it's very likely now that that one made in 5/15/90 to have white alps unless they went crazy and used both Acer and White Alps concurrently.

So, the plus side would be that you essentially have a "KB-101A" with white alps that you could swap for blue or any other variety.

[swimmingbird]

In regards to GMK, can they pad print anything (legend wise) or do they have set legends like with their doubleshots?

Bumparoney

[Blaise170]

Acer switches feel very nice on their own (one of my favorites probably), but once you stick them in a board they don't feel very nice. I don't know what it is about them that makes it like that.

[CPTBadAss]

In regards to GMK, can they pad print anything (legend wise) or do they have set legends like with their doubleshots?

Bumparoney

Don't bump your questions. I wasn't aware they could pad print at all. I'd assume that pad printing isn't confined to the molds they have like the doubleshots are.

So, I got these pictures, but seller refuses to pop off a cap since he's never done it before:

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

In conclusion:

Okay, I found a lot out and I think there's a lot of confusion here because Acer reused that case design across three or so different model ranges.

The KB-101A, the 6011, and the 6311-K.

The 6311 series is what has Acer switches.

All 6011 models have some form of SKCM clicky switch. They could have blue or white, but considering the MFG date is in the brink of the new decade, I don't think these will have blue alps. They will likely have white alps though. Which means they could be nice for a switch swap of your choice. If you like the style of the KB101A but don't like the price, the 6011 makes a good lookalike.

Below is my crazy sleuthing for posterity:

UPDATE EDIT:

After some further observation on those boards in comparison to the white Alps one here: http://imgur.com/a/Yni4I

...The one example he showed the label of (those two pictures are duplicates, same serial #) has a MFG date earlier than the one shown with white Alps, so it very well could have white alps. The odds of finding blue alps in anything past the late 80s is very unlikely though.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Acer-6011-Vintage-Mechanical-Keyboard-PS-2-Tested-Working-/261579910636?nma=true&si=k6ICFVEof38ltWuPPmm7Zfn9SZ0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

If you look here, this one also has white switches. Given that the boards you linked are in between the dates of two boards that have white alps, it's very likely now that that one made in 5/15/90 to have white alps unless they went crazy and used both Acer and White Alps concurrently.

So, the plus side would be that you essentially have a "KB-101A" with white alps that you could swap for blue or any other variety.

Dude.....thanks for the sleuthing. You're right, I confused the 6011 with the 6311. I definitely had a 6311.

[ideus]

I am checking an OG set that is double shot beige with pad printed Cyrillic legends in red originally made by GMK, apparently they can pad print a lot of stuff.

[ika]

Are Gateron Black springs the same bottom-out weight as Cherry Black springs? Gateron lists them at 50g and Cherry Blacks are listed at 60cN.

I think you answered your own question. Unless Gaterons are measuring at a different spot but the DT wiki says it's measured at acuation as well.

Funny that you're the one to respond to the question because in your review you said they felt exactly the same: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70676.0
which is why I brought up the actuation points. I doubt I could directly compare two companies' measurements, and I don't have bare Cherry Blacks to do any science myself. I can compare a bare Gateron Black to a plate-mounted black in my TG3, and it feels that Gateron Blacks are considerably lighter, but that could be 1) placebo, 2) smoothness difference, 3) comparing mounted to unmounted switches. Plus it contradicts what you said in your review. I was hoping for a second or third opinion

[Blaise170]

Are Gateron Black springs the same bottom-out weight as Cherry Black springs? Gateron lists them at 50g and Cherry Blacks are listed at 60cN.

I think you answered your own question. Unless Gaterons are measuring at a different spot but the DT wiki says it's measured at acuation as well.

Funny that you're the one to respond to the question because in your review you said they felt exactly the same: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70676.0
which is why I brought up the actuation points. I doubt I could directly compare two companies' measurements, and I don't have bare Cherry Blacks to do any science myself. I can compare a bare Gateron Black to a plate-mounted black in my TG3, and it feels that Gateron Blacks are considerably lighter, but that could be 1) placebo, 2) smoothness difference, 3) comparing mounted to unmounted switches. Plus it contradicts what you said in your review. I was hoping for a second or third opinion

Ask none other than the switch collector himself. Unmounted they feel pretty similar to me, indeed the difference between 50 and 60gF is not that much. I don't have a tool for measuring actuation but I'll try to get one at some point.

[CPTBadAss]

Funny that you're the one to respond to the question because in your review you said they felt exactly the same: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70676.0
which is why I brought up the actuation points. I doubt I could directly compare two companies' measurements, and I don't have bare Cherry Blacks to do any science myself. I can compare a bare Gateron Black to a plate-mounted black in my TG3, and it feels that Gateron Blacks are considerably lighter, but that could be 1) placebo, 2) smoothness difference, 3) comparing mounted to unmounted switches. Plus it contradicts what you said in your review. I was hoping for a second or third opinion

That's why I stopped caring about the numbers and I just try to get my hands on stuff to try it out.

[ideus]

Funny that you're the one to respond to the question because in your review you said they felt exactly the same: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70676.0
which is why I brought up the actuation points. I doubt I could directly compare two companies' measurements, and I don't have bare Cherry Blacks to do any science myself. I can compare a bare Gateron Black to a plate-mounted black in my TG3, and it feels that Gateron Blacks are considerably lighter, but that could be 1) placebo, 2) smoothness difference, 3) comparing mounted to unmounted switches. Plus it contradicts what you said in your review. I was hoping for a second or third opinion

That's why I stopped caring about the numbers and I just try to get my hands on stuff to try it out.

Numbers may be altered due to several reasons, most data shared here cannot be compared with other people's data, that is why it is always better to try it out.

[E3E]

Funny that you're the one to respond to the question because in your review you said they felt exactly the same: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70676.0
which is why I brought up the actuation points. I doubt I could directly compare two companies' measurements, and I don't have bare Cherry Blacks to do any science myself. I can compare a bare Gateron Black to a plate-mounted black in my TG3, and it feels that Gateron Blacks are considerably lighter, but that could be 1) placebo, 2) smoothness difference, 3) comparing mounted to unmounted switches. Plus it contradicts what you said in your review. I was hoping for a second or third opinion

That's why I stopped caring about the numbers and I just try to get my hands on stuff to try it out.

Numbers may be altered due to several reasons, most data shared here cannot be compared with other people's data, that is why it is always better to try it out.

I definitely feel a sense of uncertainty when it comes to comparing yellow Alps to green Alps and salmon to orange.

I always thought the long switch plate made Alps switches a lot smoother, but imo, the Salmon in my AT101 are very very smooth and they feel just as pleasant as Orange Alps.

Yellows and Greens perplex me. Greens are definitely lighter, but they are both pretty smooth! I'm curious where linear brown alps fall between the other two.  Are they heavier or lighter than greens?

Sth mentioned that they felt about as heavy as MX blacks or a little heavier, and in his board, a yellow Alps switch was used for the space bar.

So I'm guessing green is the lightest, brown is in the middle, and yellow is heaviest.

On the board my green Alps came from, the space bar switch was just a green Alps switch with a heavier spring and "lipstick" on the lips of the stem that could smudge off pretty easy.

[ideus]

Funny that you're the one to respond to the question because in your review you said they felt exactly the same: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70676.0
which is why I brought up the actuation points. I doubt I could directly compare two companies' measurements, and I don't have bare Cherry Blacks to do any science myself. I can compare a bare Gateron Black to a plate-mounted black in my TG3, and it feels that Gateron Blacks are considerably lighter, but that could be 1) placebo, 2) smoothness difference, 3) comparing mounted to unmounted switches. Plus it contradicts what you said in your review. I was hoping for a second or third opinion

That's why I stopped caring about the numbers and I just try to get my hands on stuff to try it out.

Numbers may be altered due to several reasons, most data shared here cannot be compared with other people's data, that is why it is always better to try it out.

I definitely feel a sense of uncertainty when it comes to comparing yellow Alps to green Alps and salmon to orange.

I always thought the long switch plate made Alps switches a lot smoother, but imo, the Salmon in my AT101 are very very smooth and they feel just as pleasant as Orange Alps.

Yellows and Greens perplex me. Greens are definitely lighter, but they are both pretty smooth! I'm curious where linear brown alps fall between the other two.  Are they heavier or lighter than greens?

Sth mentioned that they felt about as heavy as MX blacks or a little heavier, and in his board, a yellow Alps switch was used for the space bar.

So I'm guessing green is the lightest, brown is in the middle, and yellow is heaviest.

On the board my green Alps came from, the space bar switch was just a green Alps switch with a heavier spring and "lipstick" on the lips of the stem that could smudge off pretty easy.

I learn that keyboard feeling depends on its overall construction, included the case, plate, if any, caps, switches, if these are discrete -MX, ALPS- or built as part of a system -Topre, BS-. Therefore your particular experience may be totally different to others using similar devices. Even the famous thock in certain boards cannot be related to a single part of the board; but, instead, it is the result of the combined effect of the case, how much empty room it has inside, and board construction, even the caps contribute to it.

[CPTBadAss]

I definitely feel a sense of uncertainty when it comes to comparing yellow Alps to green Alps and salmon to orange.

I always thought the long switch plate made Alps switches a lot smoother, but imo, the Salmon in my AT101 are very very smooth and they feel just as pleasant as Orange Alps.

Yellows and Greens perplex me. Greens are definitely lighter, but they are both pretty smooth! I'm curious where linear brown alps fall between the other two.  Are they heavier or lighter than greens?

Sth mentioned that they felt about as heavy as MX blacks or a little heavier, and in his board, a yellow Alps switch was used for the space bar.

So I'm guessing green is the lightest, brown is in the middle, and yellow is heaviest.

On the board my green Alps came from, the space bar switch was just a green Alps switch with a heavier spring and "lipstick" on the lips of the stem that could smudge off pretty easy.

The weirdest part about Alps is how much the condition of the board and switches affects the feel. The board with SKCL Yellow alps I tried felt like MX Reds in terms how how light it was. And I've never tried SKCL Browns so I'm not sure. I've just come to find that SKCL Greens are the perfect weight and smoothness for me and what I like in a linear switch. Only Hall Effects are better in my opinion.

[E3E]

I learn that keyboard feeling depends on its overall construction, included the case, plate, if any, caps, switches, if these are discrete -MX, ALPS- or built as part of a system -Topre, BS-. Therefore your particular experience may be totally different to others using similar devices. Even the famous thock in certain boards cannot be related to a single part of the board; but, instead, it is the result of the combined effect of the case, how much empty room it has inside, and board construction, even the caps contribute to it.

That is an incredible point, ideus. I have thought about it before, but never really considered it. The housing, plate, and back panel, discrete or integrated switches, and caps all really play a part in the feel. It's easy to think that it's just switches and caps, but it is so much more than that.

Here's a typing comparison with my Fame board that has a plastic casing, tai hao doubleshots, blue alps, a metal plate and metal bottom panel

vs

Dell AT101 with salmon alps, thick PBT caps, metal plate, plastic case and bottom panel

http://puu.sh/l964l/33dd871868.mp3

It's terrible audio since I'm not using my good microphone, but this little internal mic has always been good with sound accuracy. I always felt like the FAME kind of reminds me of billiard balls with every click clack. The PBT on the AT101 really seems to give it a deep clack. I feel that thick plastic cases give a deeper sound whereas ones with metal bottoms give a more crisp sound. I think the metal bottoms also resonate a bit more, which isn't so good for spring ping, which alps are notorious for.

SKCL Greens are what I plan on using for my carbon fiber 60% backlit Alps build using a Duck Eagle PCB. They are very smooth. All of the linear Alps I have tried are pleasant.

I am really liking these Salmons though, maybe even more than Orange Alps, which I never would have imagined.

[tofgerl]

I've got a switch sampler on the way from CM with Topre on it. I seriously doubt the one Topre switch is going to feel anything like my FC660C.

[fohat.digs]

The housing, plate, and back panel, discrete or integrated switches, and caps all really play a part in the feel.
It's easy to think that it's just switches and caps, but it is so much more than that.

This is why I always argue for the entirety of the unified construction of the Model F, why there is no comparison between Model F and Model M, and why most "faux-Model-F" projects are doomed to failure.

Since I don't like noise, I almost always line the metal bottom pan with layers of resilient padding and isolate the metal-to-metal contact wherever possible.

[ideus]

The beauty of discrete switches is that you can pair any of the different stem designs with the springs you like, the case you prefer, your favorite plate material, and your preferred key caps set to get exactly the result you want, and enjoy all the way to reach it.

[nmur]

Recently got my hands on a RF87UB.

How difficult is it to obtain a Digilog case?

I've seen a couple in the past in Classifields, which would suggest that they're pretty rare.

[CPTBadAss]

Recently got my hands on a RF87UB.

How difficult is it to obtain a Digilog case?

I've seen a couple in the past in Classifields, which would suggest that they're pretty rare.

As far as I can tell they were only sold through one eBay vendor. Not sure if they've got any left in stock so the Classifieds might be your best shot.

[nmur]

Recently got my hands on a RF87UB.

How difficult is it to obtain a Digilog case?

I've seen a couple in the past in Classifields, which would suggest that they're pretty rare.

As far as I can tell they were only sold through one eBay vendor. Not sure if they've got any left in stock so the Classifieds might be your best shot.

Thanks, how elusive...