Author Topic: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push  (Read 13001 times)

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Offline mkawa

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #50 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:02:08 »
For this set will there be the option to have the whole set like the GeekHack backspace even the modifiers?
ideally, yes. if we can keep costs down, we want to include both a PC on ABS modifier set and an ABS on PC modifier set. tsangan kits will, of course be an option as well. We're still working on specifics, as we need to pay to cut and proto a metric crapload of legends first, and pricing is higher than standard ABS 2-shot, but we're going to do our best to make this the most epic set yet :)

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Offline Psybin

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #51 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:19:02 »
Ordered the backspace and keychain!

I'm in for a full set as well whenever that goes down.

Thanks!

Offline Lunartuna

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #52 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:44:23 »
Do we have any idea on durability of polycarb compared to ABS? Will ABS on PC develop shine faster than PC on ABS or vise versa?

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Offline mkawa

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #53 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:56:47 »
polycarbonate is harder than abs, but less temperature resistant and more brittle. think compact disc (made of polycarb) vs GI Joe (mostly abs)

ignoring hardness, polycarb is probably less likely to develop shine due solely to the fact that we're using translucent polycarb. shine is necessarily reflected light, and our polycarb reflects much less light than non-translucent plastics. the flip side of this is that it may show more scratching (refraction through the material).
« Last Edit: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:59:07 by mkawa »

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Offline Lunartuna

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #54 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 13:52:47 »
Thanks for the answers.

Now more!  :p

I know this will be a Cherry legend set but I'm wondering if that lower case typewriter style is a special font used on the "geekhack" backspace? Is it something you had cut and proto or does SP have that font available? Might be neat to have a set of modifiers done in the same style although I'm sure people are much more interested in having the modifiers cherry legends as well.

Just curious I guess.
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Offline mkawa

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #55 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 13:53:55 »
that legend was cut as part of group buy "round 3", many moons ago. it's not an SP font. in fact, it was totally one-off. i'm not even sure we know what font it was anymore.

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Offline mkawa

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #56 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 13:54:56 »
polycarb 1st shots on dark second shots don't tend to give enough contrast. the reflectivity of the white 2nd shot is really the best case for contrast.

Maybe, but subtlety can be good too!

Or for those determined to 'pop': remove stab, add orange LEDs.
ah, but too dark a second shot and not even the LED can shine through the 2nd shot :(

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Offline Soarer

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #57 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 14:04:43 »
polycarb 1st shots on dark second shots don't tend to give enough contrast. the reflectivity of the white 2nd shot is really the best case for contrast.

Maybe, but subtlety can be good too!

Or for those determined to 'pop': remove stab, add orange LEDs.
ah, but too dark a second shot and not even the LED can shine through the 2nd shot :(
Eh? Unless we're misunderstanding one another, that's the point of having a dark second shot - light shines through the polycarb legend but not the rest, giving max contrast. Even though there would perhaps be more shadow from the lattice pattern of second shot behind the legend, I think the effect would still be good.

Offline mkawa

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #58 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 14:12:22 »
light has to reflect for you to see anything. consider a truly black 2nd shot (like 0K black) and transparent PC first shot (no index of refraction, 0 reflectivity). light shines through the PC first shot and is absorbed by the 2nd shot. you see nothing, no contrast. now fix reflectivity of the polycarb at say 50% (ie, p=1/2 of reflection) at a given wavelength. you get increasing amount of contrast as reflectivity of the 2nd shot increases. at pure white, it is at its maximum across all wavelengths and ta-da, that's where we are right now.

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Offline Soarer

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #59 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 14:28:38 »
Sounds like crap to me :p Light is way more complex than that...

Essentially, there are plenty of paths, are there not, for light from LEDs to travel (and spread slightly) through the polycarb first shot, lighting it up, and therefore max contrast is with a dark second shot.

Without LEDs, it would be a much more subtle key, but one where the first shot catches light (e.g. from your monitor). Sure, it wouldn't be 'in-yer-face', so maybe the masses wouldn't appreciate its sophistication, but I think it could be one of the classiest effects ever seen on novelty keys!

Offline Lunartuna

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #60 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 14:31:39 »
So the modifiers will be the reflective orange with white legends and vice versa if costs allow, sweet!

I wonder if a single LED will uniformally light up the whole modifier keycap being this reflective orange colour.

I'm guessing the legends will be top centered to line up with LEDs like on a Ducky board?

The more I think about this the more I want!

So when is this GB going down?
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Offline Soarer

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #61 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 14:42:38 »
I don't think the reverse modifiers (polycarb second shot) would work well backlit, because the first shot would block too much light (whatever its colour).

Offline Lunartuna

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #62 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 15:00:20 »
I don't think the reverse modifiers (polycarb second shot) would work well backlit, because the first shot would block too much light (whatever its colour).

GH Jan pack looks great LED backlit, I'm wondering if the orange will hold the light better. It's going to be very unique looking regardless :)
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Offline Soarer

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #63 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 15:58:05 »
I don't think the reverse modifiers (polycarb second shot) would work well backlit, because the first shot would block too much light (whatever its colour).

GH Jan pack looks great LED backlit, I'm wondering if the orange will hold the light better. It's going to be very unique looking regardless :)

I'm not convinced I'd like that look... but the polycarb would probably look better than the Jan pack, at a guess :)

Offline i3oilermaker

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #64 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 16:16:19 »
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

We just made margin on these keys.  That means every backspace sold from here on out will go entirely to the Cherry Replica Legend fund.

If you were planning on pledging money to get legends cut NOW IS YOUR CHANCE.

4 Backspace keys buys us a legend!


Offline Lunartuna

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #65 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 16:46:20 »
Any name for this set yet? Orange Creamsicle?  :p
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Offline tjcaustin

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #66 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 16:51:27 »
Any name for this set yet? Orange Creamsicle?  :p

I'll stab a *****...

Offline Lunartuna

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #67 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 17:06:59 »
Here's a nice pic. This is on the lowest brightness setting on my Ducky. A whole set.... no words

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Offline mkawa

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #68 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 17:19:52 »
Sounds like crap to me :p Light is way more complex than that...
light is simple (hah!). materials are complicated!

Quote
Essentially, there are plenty of paths, are there not, for light from LEDs to travel (and spread slightly) through the polycarb first shot, lighting it up, and therefore max contrast is with a dark second shot.

Without LEDs, it would be a much more subtle key, but one where the first shot catches light (e.g. from your monitor). Sure, it wouldn't be 'in-yer-face', so maybe the masses wouldn't appreciate its sophistication, but I think it could be one of the classiest effects ever seen on novelty keys!
you might very well be right. i gave the worst-case example, but we can run more experiments once the fund has the money to spare. right now high value (and cost) target number one is cherry legends.

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Offline Soarer

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #69 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 17:29:33 »
Bah... I meant "Light's interaction with stuff..." then, I guess :p

Just don't rule it out... I mean, you can spot a diamond even when set in silver, and there's not much 'contrast' there ;)

Offline i3oilermaker

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #70 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 17:36:34 »
I apologize if this sounds repetitive from my previous post, but I've heard some confusion and want to clarify:

If you pledged money in the "adopt a key" thread some time ago, that program has been abandoned.  You will not be asked to donate that money, and are kindly asked to BUY GeekHack April Backspace keys instead!  At this point the cost of the keys has been covered and every dollar of a purchased GH April Backspace key will be dropped into SP's pocket for cutting us a new set of legends.

Offline mkawa

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #71 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 17:37:27 »
Bah... I meant "Light's interaction with stuff..." then, I guess :p

Just don't rule it out... I mean, you can spot a diamond even when set in silver, and there's not much 'contrast' there ;)
good point. so now it's just a simple matter of making diamonds and silver out of plastic....

;)

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Offline Glod

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #72 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 17:50:21 »
February key still the best key/method but that's just my thought
this is what the modifiers of the full set will look like :)

sweet

Offline strafe

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #73 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 21:45:45 »
February key still the best key/method but that's just my thought

Agreed.  I'd really like a Dolch replica set in White on PC :D
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Offline Megaweapon

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #74 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 22:11:47 »
You ever remove a computer bezel and notice how the power/HDD activity LED's are fed?  Depending on the case design there is frequently a clear piece of plastic that runs between the LED and the bezel.  Sometimes the actual LED is nowhere near the hole on the bezel where the light is delivered, so this clear piece of plastic has a couple of right angles in it.

I wonder if keycaps could use a similar technique to get a more precise and even delivery of light (as well as allow for legends to be placed anywhere on the cap, for keys like shift and enter).
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Offline whiteduck

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #75 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 22:21:14 »
got one for the cause!
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Offline mkawa

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #76 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 22:37:02 »
those are called light pipes and are generally made out of translucent colored polycarbonate just as our caps are. however, it's not really possible to make keycaps that also double as light pipes for the MX1a switch given the datasheet LED placement. basically, such a keycap would have to be solid around the cruciform. MX caps can't be sold around the cruciform for obvious reasons (actuation!).

that said, there's a little room to play around with. if someone can find an O-ring material that is translucent (finding one shouldn't be hard, but i'm going to take a guess that any material that has this property will make for a very hard o-ring), this would at least distribute the LED light more uniformly around the switch and hence the cap. similarly, a translucent "landing pad" would do the job as well. with a perfectly clear landing pad light guide, the light will be more distributed around the cap. with a slightly more opaque landing pad guide, the keys will pop a little more when you actuate them. it could definitely be quite cool.

pretty much any other solution would require a redesign of the MX switch itself.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline leesofi

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #77 on: Mon, 22 April 2013, 04:43:30 »
here is solution if you have time to do that.

http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/photo/6236514


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Offline esoomenona

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #78 on: Mon, 22 April 2013, 06:44:35 »
^Those are actually interesting. Were those something that that person invented? Or were they available beforehand and he just found them and they happened to work out perfectly?

Offline leesofi

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #79 on: Mon, 22 April 2013, 06:47:22 »
it was peronal work. making pcb , soldering smd chip and so on.


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Offline esoomenona

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #80 on: Mon, 22 April 2013, 06:49:44 »
Is he planning on possibly starting a GB to have those made?

Offline Batmann

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #81 on: Mon, 22 April 2013, 07:16:10 »
Set goals guys,
every time you ask for donations we don't know what's already been raised and what is still needed.

Offline i3oilermaker

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #82 on: Mon, 22 April 2013, 07:56:06 »
Set goals guys,
every time you ask for donations we don't know what's already been raised and what is still needed.
Coming soon at: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42659.0

Offline SmallFry

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Re: Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #83 on: Mon, 22 April 2013, 08:01:33 »
^Those are actually interesting. Were those something that that person invented? Or were they available beforehand and he just found them and they happened to work out perfectly?
Agreed. Quite an interesting gizmo.

Offline Batmann

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #84 on: Mon, 22 April 2013, 08:04:23 »
Set goals guys,
every time you ask for donations we don't know what's already been raised and what is still needed.
Coming soon at: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42659.0

Nice, thanks i3oiler

Offline leesofi

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #85 on: Mon, 22 April 2013, 09:19:17 »
Is he planning on possibly starting a GB to have those made?

No, he mentioned it takes so many time.
if factory make that automatic, someone can start GB, i think.


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Offline zenuty

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #86 on: Wed, 24 April 2013, 00:11:16 »
I wanted to remake it

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Offline Lunartuna

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #87 on: Fri, 03 May 2013, 14:34:34 »
Picked up a Backspace. Could only afford one, hope it helps!
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Offline AGmurdercore

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #88 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 09:47:13 »
Sorry if this has been reported already but how much will be the estimate cost of a whole set of the new caps?
What the hell am I even doing

Offline mkawa

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #89 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 14:04:43 »
we don't have solid numbers yet. we'll release details as we work them out :D

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline AGmurdercore

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #90 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 14:35:36 »
we don't have solid numbers yet. we'll release details as we work them out :D
Ok great, will keep an eye on the thread :P
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Offline badcop

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #91 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 14:45:57 »
i bought half a legend!  :cool:
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Offline mkawa

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #92 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 13:52:55 »
Folks,

We only have 50 more of these keys, and won't be producing them again. If you want one, now might be the time.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline SmallFry

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #93 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 14:06:16 »
Pertaining to legends, does each profile require a whole new payment for legends? Or now that we have the Cherry legends can we use them between profiles such as DSA and DSC (I'm a bit flaky today, I think that's the profile we usually use)

Offline mashby

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #94 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 15:46:52 »
Folks,

We only have 50 more of these keys, and won't be producing them again. If you want one, now might be the time.

I was hoping to hold out until the May GH keys came out to try and save on shipping, but couldn't risk it.  ;D

Ordered 2.

Offline mkawa

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #95 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 16:43:54 »
Pertaining to legends, does each profile require a whole new payment for legends? Or now that we have the Cherry legends can we use them between profiles such as DSA and DSC (I'm a bit flaky today, I think that's the profile we usually use)
each key profile family requires a new legend to be cut. ie DCS legends cannot be used to make DSA keys.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline SmallFry

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #96 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 17:16:51 »
Pertaining to legends, does each profile require a whole new payment for legends? Or now that we have the Cherry legends can we use them between profiles such as DSA and DSC (I'm a bit flaky today, I think that's the profile we usually use)
each key profile family requires a new legend to be cut. ie DCS legends cannot be used to make DSA keys.
Poo. Alrighty, so next fund raiser.... DSA CHERRY! :P

Offline Lunartuna

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #97 on: Mon, 13 May 2013, 19:30:03 »

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Offline mashby

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #98 on: Wed, 15 May 2013, 16:23:04 »
I ordered two and they arrived this week. None of the boards at my office currently have LED backlighting, so I used a small flashlight instead.  ;D


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Offline IPT

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Re: April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push
« Reply #99 on: Fri, 17 May 2013, 18:53:14 »
got mine, but obviously no backlit so its just boring =(