Author Topic: The Living Soldering Thread  (Read 1651342 times)

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Offline phoenix1234

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2650 on: Tue, 02 June 2015, 09:31:15 »
I have a problem. I opened my Filco minila and discovered this.

You know how tough it can be when one switch lead is bent? Well, all the switch leads are bent on this keyboard. Including most of the 'tough' legs that normally are quite stiff.

Together with it being lead free solder and double sided PCB, I have no idea how to desolder this. But without desoldering, I can't get rid of the original switches and put in my own jailhouse mods.

Did you try soldering wick?
You can use a small copper soldering wick, the smaller the better in this case, 1.5mm-wick would be great.
To make it easier, you can add a bit of flux before desolder it.
102418-0
If you have a soldering pick, it would be also useful in this case.
102420-1

PS: Indeed, the soldering pump is still in need because it will help to desolder most of the solder. The soldering wick will only useful for cleaning mess or something got stuck in between the switch and the trace.
102422-2
« Last Edit: Tue, 02 June 2015, 10:13:29 by phoenix1234 »
I like linear switches

Offline greath

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2651 on: Wed, 03 June 2015, 08:49:00 »
Do you guys have any recommendations for magnifying lamps? I never thought I'd need something like this at 30 but... such is life.

Offline FreeChemicals

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2652 on: Wed, 03 June 2015, 19:51:54 »
Took my keyboard to the office today, to find a diode rattling around in the case after unpacking... I must have knocked it off while putting it back into the case yesterday (took it out to fix a blinking LED)...

Since I've only had 0805 1N4148 diodes lying around, I soldered one of those in place using a hot air station.

Tested with Switch Hitter, and it seemed to work fine ... until 6 keys just registered without touching them: p[;'\/ over and over again. http://dpaste.com/1JE7KQJ - a Switch Hitter log excerpt.

Granted, the soldering is ****. That was the first time after 2nd year in highschool, and should've been more careful. Some practice wouldn't have been a bad idea either.

It went haywire after desoldering (which was trial & error, obviously) the bottom row to make place for a 7u spacebar. In the end it worked fine, except for some LEDs which I've fixed yesterday. And then everything went to **** this morning...





I've ordered some 1206 1N4148 diodes, but would the footprint even matter? I'm a bit lost ..  :-[

Offline sprit

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2653 on: Thu, 04 June 2015, 05:04:52 »
...   Granted, the soldering is ****. That was the first time after 2nd year in highschool, and should've been more careful. Some practice wouldn't have been a bad idea either. 

It went haywire after desoldering (which was trial & error, obviously) the bottom row to make place for a 7u spacebar. In the end it worked fine, except for some LEDs which I've fixed yesterday. And then everything went to **** this morning...

Show Image


Show Image


I've ordered some 1206 1N4148 diodes, but would the footprint even matter? I'm a bit lost ..  :-[

Yes!  Diodes are 1N4148  1206 inch (3.2x1.6mm) size.    Part No. is 1N4148W  SOD-123 
I will email in detail    ;)   
« Last Edit: Thu, 04 June 2015, 05:56:12 by sprit »

Offline sprit

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2654 on: Thu, 04 June 2015, 05:27:54 »
Did you try soldering wick?
You can use a small copper soldering wick, the smaller the better in this case, 1.5mm-wick would be great.
To make it easier, you can add a bit of flux before desolder it.
(Attachment Link)
If you have a soldering pick, it would be also useful in this case.
(Attachment Link)

PS: Indeed, the soldering pump is still in need because it will help to desolder most of the solder. The soldering wick will only useful for cleaning mess or something got stuck in between the switch and the trace.
(Attachment Link)
gootwick is one of the best afaik,  my daily use. 

Offline meow a cat

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2655 on: Thu, 04 June 2015, 07:08:27 »
Did you try soldering wick?
You can use a small copper soldering wick, the smaller the better in this case, 1.5mm-wick would be great.
To make it easier, you can add a bit of flux before desolder it.
(Attachment Link)
If you have a soldering pick, it would be also useful in this case.
(Attachment Link)

PS: Indeed, the soldering pump is still in need because it will help to desolder most of the solder. The soldering wick will only useful for cleaning mess or something got stuck in between the switch and the trace.
(Attachment Link)
gootwick is one of the best afaik,  my daily use.

I'm also having the same issue with bent pins, and solder that won't fully desolder. Searching for eBay and Google for 'soldering pick' just gives me these:



Is there another name for that tool, a soldering pick with a split end like that?

Also, how exactly do I move the bent pins? Melt the solder with my iron, and while the solder is melted, push the pin with the pick?

And one more question. Last time I used my soldering iron to solder (I've been having the same issue with de-soldering), it didn't want to melt solder quickly whether I set the iron to 350, 400, or 700. I would have to hold the iron to the solder point and pin for ten seconds or so before I could melt the solder. Did I manage to oxidize my tip? It looks fine, nice and silvery.

I'm using a Hakko FX888D, but I'm a soldering noob. I've been rather discouraged about using it, because so far all I've managed to do is lift a couple pads when I tried to de-solder my Filco numpad (which had the same bent pins as Berserk is dealing with). I also had trouble de-soldering a couple switches on my JD40.. my solder never wants to completely de-solder. There's always a little bit left no matter how much I try to get it all with my Soldapullt.




Boards:
Silver 84-key KMAC LE, 62g lubed & stickered ergo-clears, GON NerD PCB, polycarbonate plate,MX lock/Phosphorglow IBM Model M SSK 1391472/White HHKB Pro 2, Hasu controller/WKL Phantom, 50g vintage blacks, MX lock
Leeku G80-1800 (build in progress)

Offline phoenix1234

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2656 on: Thu, 04 June 2015, 07:20:32 »

I'm also having the same issue with bent pins, and solder that won't fully desolder. Searching for eBay and Google for 'soldering pick' just gives me these:

Show Image


Is there another name for that tool, a soldering pick with a split end like that?

Also, how exactly do I move the bent pins? Melt the solder with my iron, and while the solder is melted, push the pin with the pick?

And one more question. Last time I used my soldering iron to solder (I've been having the same issue with de-soldering), it didn't want to melt solder quickly whether I set the iron to 350, 400, or 700. I would have to hold the iron to the solder point and pin for ten seconds or so before I could melt the solder. Did I manage to oxidize my tip? It looks fine, nice and silvery.

I'm using a Hakko FX888D, but I'm a soldering noob. I've been rather discouraged about using it, because so far all I've managed to do is lift a couple pads when I tried to de-solder my Filco numpad (which had the same bent pins as Berserk is dealing with). I also had trouble de-soldering a couple switches on my JD40.. my solder never wants to completely de-solder. There's always a little bit left no matter how much I try to get it all with my Soldapullt.

You can search for the term "Solder assist", "solder support", this one is a good set for example:
http://www.goot.jp/en/handakanren/sa-10/


Melt the solder with my iron, and while the solder is melted, push the pin with the pick?
Yes, it is correct.

And one more question. Last time I used my soldering iron to solder (I've been having the same issue with de-soldering), it didn't want to melt solder quickly whether I set the iron to 350, 400, or 700. I would have to hold the iron to the solder point and pin for ten seconds or so before I could melt the solder. Did I manage to oxidize my tip? It looks fine, nice and silvery.

With Hakko FX888D, it should be melting fast. You can try to figure the tip if it was oxidized? If it is, you can fix it with sanding and re-tinning it. If it is not, you can also consider to use a Hakko Chisel tip 2-3.2mm if you want the best heating. The default Hakko conical tip is very bad on soldering Cherry MX switch because it is too small.

http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-T18-DL2-Chisel-22-5mm-FX-8801/dp/B00762AHHQ

gootwick is one of the best afaik,  my daily use.

Yes, it is very good  :thumb:
MG Chemicals, Engineer, Hakko also have good wick but Goot wick is unbeatable.
« Last Edit: Thu, 04 June 2015, 07:23:58 by phoenix1234 »
I like linear switches

Offline berserkfan

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2657 on: Thu, 04 June 2015, 07:45:26 »
Firstly guys, I got this done without much trouble. It was surprisingly manageable once I did the 1) adding fresh solder thing 2) usage of generous amounts of wick and flux 3) used a screwdriver to straighten the bent pins. Having a double sided through holes PCB really helped in this case as I donít think a Cooler Master could have taken this. On average each pad had to take 1+4+3 seconds of heating in 3 separate sessions. (Adding solder, wicking, and straightening the pin.) The last did not involve actual contact with the pad since I was touching the pin, but doubtless the heat would have been intense still.

ALL freaking pins were bent by people whom Iíll call the Filco Fookers. WTF they went to the extra trouble of bending every single pin, Iíll never know.

BUT special thanks to Phoenix1234 for introducing me to the correct tool. Now I have a name to google and use. Soldering PICK? OK, great! How come you are from Vietnam and know all these English terms and I donít? Iím gonna get that for the next time because I have other keyboards with bent pins, tytytttyytyty! (BTW donít tell me you also get these at Sim Lim Tower?)

Zero pads damaged! Another minor victory under my belt! Iíve rarely lifted pads but scared as hell of lifting because itís really hard to repair.

Addendum: thanks for your links for meow a cat!
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline meow a cat

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2658 on: Thu, 04 June 2015, 08:20:01 »

I'm also having the same issue with bent pins, and solder that won't fully desolder. Searching for eBay and Google for 'soldering pick' just gives me these:

Show Image


Is there another name for that tool, a soldering pick with a split end like that?

Also, how exactly do I move the bent pins? Melt the solder with my iron, and while the solder is melted, push the pin with the pick?

And one more question. Last time I used my soldering iron to solder (I've been having the same issue with de-soldering), it didn't want to melt solder quickly whether I set the iron to 350, 400, or 700. I would have to hold the iron to the solder point and pin for ten seconds or so before I could melt the solder. Did I manage to oxidize my tip? It looks fine, nice and silvery.

I'm using a Hakko FX888D, but I'm a soldering noob. I've been rather discouraged about using it, because so far all I've managed to do is lift a couple pads when I tried to de-solder my Filco numpad (which had the same bent pins as Berserk is dealing with). I also had trouble de-soldering a couple switches on my JD40.. my solder never wants to completely de-solder. There's always a little bit left no matter how much I try to get it all with my Soldapullt.

You can search for the term "Solder assist", "solder support", this one is a good set for example:
http://www.goot.jp/en/handakanren/sa-10/
Show Image


Melt the solder with my iron, and while the solder is melted, push the pin with the pick?
Yes, it is correct.

And one more question. Last time I used my soldering iron to solder (I've been having the same issue with de-soldering), it didn't want to melt solder quickly whether I set the iron to 350, 400, or 700. I would have to hold the iron to the solder point and pin for ten seconds or so before I could melt the solder. Did I manage to oxidize my tip? It looks fine, nice and silvery.

With Hakko FX888D, it should be melting fast. You can try to figure the tip if it was oxidized? If it is, you can fix it with sanding and re-tinning it. If it is not, you can also consider to use a Hakko Chisel tip 2-3.2mm if you want the best heating. The default Hakko conical tip is very bad on soldering Cherry MX switch because it is too small.
Show Image

http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-T18-DL2-Chisel-22-5mm-FX-8801/dp/B00762AHHQ

gootwick is one of the best afaik,  my daily use.

Yes, it is very good  :thumb:
MG Chemicals, Engineer, Hakko also have good wick but Goot wick is unbeatable.

Thanks for your help! I found a set of those tools on eBay. They should be handy!

I will try the advice you gave me. Should I use a really fine grit sandpaper, if I can't get it to heat properly again? I suppose it should be sandpaper for use on metal, not wood?

The tip I am having problems with is the same one you showed to me. I have not used the conical tip that came with my Hakko yet.

I also do not have flux. Perhaps that would help with my soldering and de-soldering.

Would this flux pen work?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Electroplax-Soldering-Rosin-Flux-Solder-Pen-Low-Solid-DIY-Solar-Cells-Panels-/281476737907?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4189522b73

Is it important to use a good brand of flux? Kester maybe?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/flux-pen-Kester-flux-pen-soldering-flux-pen-solar-cell-the-best-for-solar-panel-/251958345196?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa9e33dec

Thanks again for your help!!  :thumb:

Boards:
Silver 84-key KMAC LE, 62g lubed & stickered ergo-clears, GON NerD PCB, polycarbonate plate,MX lock/Phosphorglow IBM Model M SSK 1391472/White HHKB Pro 2, Hasu controller/WKL Phantom, 50g vintage blacks, MX lock
Leeku G80-1800 (build in progress)

Offline meow a cat

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2659 on: Thu, 04 June 2015, 10:18:17 »


Can anyone confirm for me if these will work for building a Phantom?

I'm not sure what the 'DO-35' means.


Boards:
Silver 84-key KMAC LE, 62g lubed & stickered ergo-clears, GON NerD PCB, polycarbonate plate,MX lock/Phosphorglow IBM Model M SSK 1391472/White HHKB Pro 2, Hasu controller/WKL Phantom, 50g vintage blacks, MX lock
Leeku G80-1800 (build in progress)

Offline Zukoi

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2660 on: Thu, 04 June 2015, 10:59:59 »

I'm also having the same issue with bent pins, and solder that won't fully desolder. Searching for eBay and Google for 'soldering pick' just gives me these:

Show Image


Is there another name for that tool, a soldering pick with a split end like that?

Also, how exactly do I move the bent pins? Melt the solder with my iron, and while the solder is melted, push the pin with the pick?

And one more question. Last time I used my soldering iron to solder (I've been having the same issue with de-soldering), it didn't want to melt solder quickly whether I set the iron to 350, 400, or 700. I would have to hold the iron to the solder point and pin for ten seconds or so before I could melt the solder. Did I manage to oxidize my tip? It looks fine, nice and silvery.

I'm using a Hakko FX888D, but I'm a soldering noob. I've been rather discouraged about using it, because so far all I've managed to do is lift a couple pads when I tried to de-solder my Filco numpad (which had the same bent pins as Berserk is dealing with). I also had trouble de-soldering a couple switches on my JD40.. my solder never wants to completely de-solder. There's always a little bit left no matter how much I try to get it all with my Soldapullt.

You can search for the term "Solder assist", "solder support", this one is a good set for example:
http://www.goot.jp/en/handakanren/sa-10/
Show Image


Melt the solder with my iron, and while the solder is melted, push the pin with the pick?
Yes, it is correct.

And one more question. Last time I used my soldering iron to solder (I've been having the same issue with de-soldering), it didn't want to melt solder quickly whether I set the iron to 350, 400, or 700. I would have to hold the iron to the solder point and pin for ten seconds or so before I could melt the solder. Did I manage to oxidize my tip? It looks fine, nice and silvery.

With Hakko FX888D, it should be melting fast. You can try to figure the tip if it was oxidized? If it is, you can fix it with sanding and re-tinning it. If it is not, you can also consider to use a Hakko Chisel tip 2-3.2mm if you want the best heating. The default Hakko conical tip is very bad on soldering Cherry MX switch because it is too small.
Show Image

http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-T18-DL2-Chisel-22-5mm-FX-8801/dp/B00762AHHQ

gootwick is one of the best afaik,  my daily use.

Yes, it is very good  :thumb:
MG Chemicals, Engineer, Hakko also have good wick but Goot wick is unbeatable.

Thanks for your help! I found a set of those tools on eBay. They should be handy!

I will try the advice you gave me. Should I use a really fine grit sandpaper, if I can't get it to heat properly again? I suppose it should be sandpaper for use on metal, not wood?

The tip I am having problems with is the same one you showed to me. I have not used the conical tip that came with my Hakko yet.

I also do not have flux. Perhaps that would help with my soldering and de-soldering.

Would this flux pen work?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Electroplax-Soldering-Rosin-Flux-Solder-Pen-Low-Solid-DIY-Solar-Cells-Panels-/281476737907?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4189522b73

Is it important to use a good brand of flux? Kester maybe?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/flux-pen-Kester-flux-pen-soldering-flux-pen-solar-cell-the-best-for-solar-panel-/251958345196?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa9e33dec

Thanks again for your help!!  :thumb:

You really do need flux for sure. I soldered a couple of things like my keyboard and a banggood clock and I found that flux helps a lot to get the solder to stick to where you want it to. Without it you are basically sticking a hot needle to hole.

As for which solder to get, I am not experienced enough to say that. But I can tell you that you shouldn't get crappy chinese flux. My dad had some weird flux in a small container and the flumes smell like butts and left a horrible residue that I couldn't brush off.

Since my dad does some plumbing jobs, he uses Oatey No.5. Very good stuff, doesn't smell horrible and sticks the solder very well. For some reason it is called solder paste even though it is just flux. Although, they warn not to use it on electronic parts http://www.oatey.com/doc/No_5_Flux.pdf. I used it on my keyboard and I haven't had any issues. I think you will be fine if you clean the board with a toothbrush and alcohol afterwards since it is just the residue that is conductive.
« Last Edit: Thu, 04 June 2015, 11:02:07 by Zukoi »

Offline berserkfan

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2661 on: Thu, 04 June 2015, 11:09:26 »
Some solder pastes are not meant for PCBs because they are acidic and will kill PCB over time.

That said Iím very un-knowledeable about many things. I thought flux was for DEsoldering? I only ever use it for desoldering because soldering rarely causes me grief. I use Chinese flux and it isnít crappy at all so YMMV. Just desoldered a hellish Filco where every single pin was folded over and I almost canít see any change in the flux level in my bottle. (1 drop per pin was more than enough to send the solder shooting up the wick.) As usual I had a fan blowing, but there was no nasty smell.

And yes, brush and alcohol are MUSTS. Before AND After. Cleaning before makes desoldering easier especially if the work is an old keyboard.
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline digi

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2662 on: Thu, 04 June 2015, 11:29:01 »
If you're using rosin-core solder, you shouldn't need flux.

Offline Zukoi

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2663 on: Thu, 04 June 2015, 11:47:25 »
Some solder pastes are not meant for PCBs because they are acidic and will kill PCB over time.

That said Iím very un-knowledeable about many things. I thought flux was for DEsoldering? I only ever use it for desoldering because soldering rarely causes me grief. I use Chinese flux and it isnít crappy at all so YMMV. Just desoldered a hellish Filco where every single pin was folded over and I almost canít see any change in the flux level in my bottle. (1 drop per pin was more than enough to send the solder shooting up the wick.) As usual I had a fan blowing, but there was no nasty smell.

And yes, brush and alcohol are MUSTS. Before AND After. Cleaning before makes desoldering easier especially if the work is an old keyboard.
Flux is for cleaning the board. You need an clean surface for good wetting and dirty surfaces hurts the heat transfer. The cleaner the better in my eyes.

Technically you don't need flux if you have resin core wire. But sometimes the pad is stubborn and you need to drip the wire in flux to help the wetting. There is no real draw back to using more flux assuming you clean after yourself.

Offline digi

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2664 on: Thu, 04 June 2015, 12:45:08 »
Some solder pastes are not meant for PCBs because they are acidic and will kill PCB over time.

That said I�m very un-knowledeable about many things. I thought flux was for DEsoldering? I only ever use it for desoldering because soldering rarely causes me grief. I use Chinese flux and it isn�t crappy at all so YMMV. Just desoldered a hellish Filco where every single pin was folded over and I almost can�t see any change in the flux level in my bottle. (1 drop per pin was more than enough to send the solder shooting up the wick.) As usual I had a fan blowing, but there was no nasty smell.

And yes, brush and alcohol are MUSTS. Before AND After. Cleaning before makes desoldering easier especially if the work is an old keyboard.
Flux is for cleaning the board. You need an clean surface for good wetting and dirty surfaces hurts the heat transfer. The cleaner the better in my eyes.

Technically you don't need flux if you have resin core wire. But sometimes the pad is stubborn and you need to drip the wire in flux to help the wetting. There is no real draw back to using more flux assuming you clean after yourself.

I would use Isopropyl Alcohol & a Q-Tip and/or toothprush to clean the pcb itself. Flux to clean the soldering pads. I'm not an expert though, just my basic soldering experience here.. :)

Offline Zukoi

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2665 on: Thu, 04 June 2015, 12:55:23 »
Some solder pastes are not meant for PCBs because they are acidic and will kill PCB over time.

That said I�m very un-knowledeable about many things. I thought flux was for DEsoldering? I only ever use it for desoldering because soldering rarely causes me grief. I use Chinese flux and it isn�t crappy at all so YMMV. Just desoldered a hellish Filco where every single pin was folded over and I almost can�t see any change in the flux level in my bottle. (1 drop per pin was more than enough to send the solder shooting up the wick.) As usual I had a fan blowing, but there was no nasty smell.

And yes, brush and alcohol are MUSTS. Before AND After. Cleaning before makes desoldering easier especially if the work is an old keyboard.
Flux is for cleaning the board. You need an clean surface for good wetting and dirty surfaces hurts the heat transfer. The cleaner the better in my eyes.

Technically you don't need flux if you have resin core wire. But sometimes the pad is stubborn and you need to drip the wire in flux to help the wetting. There is no real draw back to using more flux assuming you clean after yourself.

I would use Isopropyl Alcohol & a Q-Tip and/or toothprush to clean the pcb itself. Flux to clean the soldering pads. I'm not an expert though, just my basic soldering experience here.. :)

Honestly, if it works, it works. Everyone has their own technique to solder and if you consistently get clean joints then  keep doing what you do.

Offline berserkfan

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2666 on: Thu, 04 June 2015, 15:42:22 »
My query is, is flux really good for cleaning the board? It leaves a sticky residue that forces you to clean it again later, so I prefer a minimum use of flux. Or do I have an inferior version of flux? I personally am not impressed with flux cleaner. It gets the job done but doesnít seem to have any other purpose other than de-stickyfying the board. Seems a waste to make the board sticky and then unsticky. In contrast, alcohol needs no cleaning up after.
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline Blaise170

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2667 on: Thu, 04 June 2015, 16:37:07 »
My query is, is flux really good for cleaning the board? It leaves a sticky residue that forces you to clean it again later, so I prefer a minimum use of flux. Or do I have an inferior version of flux? I personally am not impressed with flux cleaner. It gets the job done but doesnít seem to have any other purpose other than de-stickyfying the board. Seems a waste to make the board sticky and then unsticky. In contrast, alcohol needs no cleaning up after.

You don't need it with rosin-core. You do need it without. Simple as that.
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Offline hasu

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2668 on: Thu, 04 June 2015, 20:07:48 »
gootwick is one of the best afaik,  my daily use.

Yes, it is very good  :thumb:
MG Chemicals, Engineer, Hakko also have good wick but Goot wick is unbeatable.

Why do you guys prefer Goot to others? Are there any clear advantages?
I'm very curious, I'll have to try Goot wick again.

I've used Goot wick but I use Hakko wick recently for no reason. It felt like flux of Hakko wick works slightly better but not sure. I didn't have any problem with Goot wick, though.
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2669 on: Fri, 05 June 2015, 03:14:59 »
I have found Goot wick excellent but expensive. So I bought nameless brand Chinese wick that was totally useless if you don't add flux, but perfectly functioning after that. Now I think I'll stick with Nameless Brand Wick aka generic wick, and just add the flux instead. The cost savings is too much to ignore, something like 3:1 price difference.

Nonetheless if you have some advice to share I'm keen to learn. I've heard that flux is bad for PCBs in the long run due to acidity, so I should avoid adding flux?
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline phoenix1234

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2670 on: Fri, 05 June 2015, 05:43:04 »
If we are using the mild acid flux which is usually for soldering the copper pipe, it will kill the keyboard switch, pcb trace, solder joins ... sooner or later. Fortunately, today there are many high quality flux which is non-corrosive and non-acidic, like this one :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230916005386


This one is cheaper but required cleaning
www.ebay.com/itm/331041552716



Quote from: hasu link=topic=42824.msg1769299#msg1769299
I've used Goot wick but I use Hakko wick recently for no reason. It felt like flux of Hakko wick works slightly better but not sure. I didn't have any problem with Goot wick, though.

Sure, it depends on how we use and like it.
There is no obvious evidence to back up one is better than the other.
I tried this Chemtronics before, it is also very good :


Quote from: berserkfan
ALL freaking pins were bent by people whom Iíll call the Filco Fookers. WTF they went to the extra trouble of bending every single pin, Iíll never know.

BUT special thanks to Phoenix1234 for introducing me to the correct tool. Now I have a name to google and use. Soldering PICK? OK, great! How come you are from Vietnam and know all these English terms and I donít? Iím gonna get that for the next time because I have other keyboards with bent pins, tytytttyytyty! (BTW donít tell me you also get these at Sim Lim Tower?)

I'm glad that you like it  :thumb:
I can order the solder assist in Vietnam but of course you can get it from Sim Lim Tower, there are many things there  :))

PS: if you want to blame about the bent pin, you should blame the Datacomp  I can see that 2 keyboards manufactured by Datacomp  have that kind of ridiculous bent : SteelSeries 7G & Filco Minila (maybe more) but it seems Datacomp is the one with that infamous bent pin  :-\

I like linear switches

Offline Ngt

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2671 on: Fri, 05 June 2015, 08:03:35 »
Are tip tinner some kind of flux like you guys talk about?

http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/spares-accessories/tip-tinner/

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Offline phoenix1234

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2672 on: Fri, 05 June 2015, 08:40:51 »
Are tip tinner some kind of flux like you guys talk about?

http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/spares-accessories/tip-tinner/

Usually tip cleaner is a composition of solder powder, oxide-reducing chemicals (flux) and something else so it should not be consider as flux alone.

As you can see in the advertising, after opened, it seems the product mostly has solder powder.

PS:
http://www.qualitek.com/Tinner.PDF
Oxidation-Reduction chemicals in this case is Monoammonium Phosphate
« Last Edit: Fri, 05 June 2015, 08:44:23 by phoenix1234 »
I like linear switches

Offline Ngt

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2673 on: Fri, 05 June 2015, 13:37:11 »
Are tip tinner some kind of flux like you guys talk about?

http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/spares-accessories/tip-tinner/

Usually tip cleaner is a composition of solder powder, oxide-reducing chemicals (flux) and something else so it should not be consider as flux alone.

As you can see in the advertising, after opened, it seems the product mostly has solder powder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx-1gD60_Qg

PS:
http://www.qualitek.com/Tinner.PDF
Oxidation-Reduction chemicals in this case is Monoammonium Phosphate


Would it be enough so to just sink the tip of the iron in it before applying the soldering matter? I guess the flux it has would go into the soldering matter, doesn't it?

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Offline greath

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2674 on: Fri, 05 June 2015, 14:22:21 »
Going to be doing my first ever SMD soldering (diodes and resistors). I need some advice:

1. I have an Edsyn 951sxe with the standard medium tip. Do I need to purchase a different tip or will the medium one work well?

2. I currently have 63/37 .031" solder. Do I need .020"?

3. Flux. Do I need some (outside of what's in the solder)? I am not going to be soldering a controller from my understand, and I believe this is where flux is needed most.

4. There seem to be about 1000x ways to smd solder on youtube. Does anyone have a video they would recommend?

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2675 on: Fri, 05 June 2015, 15:05:15 »
copying my response from pm:

for resistors and diodes, the included 1.6mm chisel tip is a good choice. what you want to focus on is making sure the pad is wet before you place the component onto the board. for example, for an SMD resistor, you will put a tiny tiny solder ball onto one of the pads, then in one hand use a pair of tweezers to position the resistor onto the board and the other to re-melt the ball onto both the solder pad and the resistor. with the resistor now held in place by the one joint, solder the other joint as usual.

1.6mm is especially nice for this because ~1mm tips tend to be conical instead of spades. you want to use the spade part of the tip to apply heat to the solder ball, pcb pad and resistor simultaneously.

there are lots of good solder videos on line, but i haven't watched most of them. check out eevblog's videos though; he is always 100% dead on with his suggestions and howtos.

the biggest part though is don't be afraid. enjoy!! :)

Quote
2. I currently have 63/37 .031" solder. Do I need .020"?

3. Flux. Do I need some (outside of what's in the solder)? I am not going to be soldering a controller from my understand, and I believe this is where flux is needed most.

2. 0.03" is fine.

3. pick up a small bottle of MG chemical liquid RA flux #835. use a dropper bottle to dispense it.

youtube slide soldering for the controller.

remember to enjoy! if you're worried, practice and then don't worry :)
« Last Edit: Fri, 05 June 2015, 15:07:22 by mkawa »

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Offline phoenix1234

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2676 on: Fri, 05 June 2015, 18:34:33 »
Would it be enough so to just sink the tip of the iron in it before applying the soldering matter? I guess the flux it has would go into the soldering matter, doesn't it?

I'm not sure if I understand your question correctly but if you want to ask about the tip cleaner, I think we should only use it when the tip is badly oxidized that we cannot fix it with normal solder and flux. I believe if we use the tip cleaner so frequently, it will have negative effect on the tip.  For daily tip cleaning, applying solder + brass sponge is a cheaper and easier method. Besides, rosin core solder like Kester 44 has flux already, so we don't need to add extra flux.
I like linear switches

Offline Ngt

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2677 on: Sat, 06 June 2015, 07:23:12 »
What do you think of that soldering kit guys?
http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/toolkits/xs25-toolkit/

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Offline azhdar

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2678 on: Sat, 06 June 2015, 07:37:57 »
What do you think of that soldering kit guys?
http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/toolkits/xs25-toolkit/

be careful that's not a french eletric plug :)

Offline Ngt

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2679 on: Sat, 06 June 2015, 08:09:41 »
What do you think of that soldering kit guys?
http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/toolkits/xs25-toolkit/

be careful that's not a french eletric plug :)


Yeah I know, I already asked them to switch it :) . They offer european plug as well.

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Offline Lpwl

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2680 on: Sat, 06 June 2015, 10:30:26 »
My query is, is flux really good for cleaning the board? It leaves a sticky residue that forces you to clean it again later, so I prefer a minimum use of flux. Or do I have an inferior version of flux? I personally am not impressed with flux cleaner. It gets the job done but doesn't seem to have any other purpose other than de-stickyfying the board. Seems a waste to make the board sticky and then unsticky. In contrast, alcohol needs no cleaning up after.

I decided to solder my GON NerD PCB this afternoon and everything was going well until I tried to clean the flux with some Isopropyl alcohol (bought from Ebay).

My problem is that even with the help of an (old) toothbrush and some Q-tips, I'm having some difficulties to completly remove any flux residues.

> I'm using some Kester 63/37 .031" resin-core (RA) solder so this how it looks before (on the right) / after cleaning (on the left) :



Even after I tried to clean it, the PCB looks (and feels) sticky in many places, like this :







> I only cleaned 20% of the PCB using that method but I'm wondering if I should scrub harder ?

Use more IPA ?

By the way, I'm a total newbie regarding soldering so any advice is welcome !

Offline bpiphany

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2681 on: Sat, 06 June 2015, 10:48:06 »
Are those yellow things LEDs? On the back of the PCB?

Offline Lpwl

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2682 on: Sat, 06 June 2015, 10:53:10 »
Are those yellow things LEDs? On the back of the PCB?

Yeap, those are SMD LEDs for side lighting :




« Last Edit: Sat, 06 June 2015, 11:30:15 by Lpwl »

Offline bpiphany

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2683 on: Sat, 06 June 2015, 11:39:24 »
Pimplights! And I learned something this day as well.

Offline scott.stamp

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2684 on: Sat, 06 June 2015, 17:31:13 »
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230916005386
Show Image

I use this stuff (cheap from DigiKey, I use MG Chemicals solder too), it's great flux but it's super annoying to clean up. 99% IPA gets it but I usually have to scrub with a toothbrush. Apparently "real" flux cleaner makes easy work of it.

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2685 on: Sat, 06 June 2015, 18:19:01 »
hardcore flux cleaner is incredibly bad for you. stick to 90+% isoprop and vigorous scrubbing. rinse with DI water. let the iso sit on the blobs for a bit to soak into the flux balls.

hardcore flux cleaners are horrible organic solvents that will dissolve your bones and eyeballs (hyperbole, but yah, nasty stuff).

SPEAKING OF! tip cleaners are ALSO nasty nasty organic solvents with halides and other nasty crap in them.  take care of your tip, liberally use flux and solder to keep your tip tinned and scrub any nasty spots AT TEMP with a brass brush (cheap ones available at local hardware store or harbor freight) and liberal use of flux and solder.

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Offline Lpwl

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2686 on: Sun, 07 June 2015, 04:33:31 »
Alright thank you !

I'll keep rubbing.

Offline Parak

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2687 on: Sun, 07 June 2015, 11:07:48 »
Alright thank you !

I'll keep rubbing.

So the point is to not rub the flux all over the board, but to dilute the solids into the isopropyl and to get the resulting liquid away from the boards, otherwise it will just dry up and leave a sticky mess. After sufficiently scrubbing away any solid or sticky spots of flux, blot away with some paper and throw it away. Repeat as needed. Kimwipes are good for it, but any softish paper should do the trick as long as you blot and not rub it around to leave bits and pieces of paper on all the parts and pins.

Offline Lpwl

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2688 on: Sun, 07 June 2015, 14:23:37 »
Roger that.

Thanks !

EDIT : It's working really well, thank you both once again.

:thumb:
« Last Edit: Tue, 09 June 2015, 08:32:59 by Lpwl »

Offline katushkin

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2689 on: Thu, 11 June 2015, 08:56:29 »
So I'm going to get into this. Because I really need to and there aren't that many solderers in the UK past suicidal_orange and Margo.

I'm buying a basic setup until I can actually solder worth a damn, but I do need a desoldering pump and some decent solder. Any UK based DIYers have any recommendations for pumps or solder and where to buy?
Can we get them to build the Alps ten feet higher and get Cherry to pay for it?
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Offline Hzza

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2690 on: Thu, 11 June 2015, 10:15:23 »
Ebay is really good for entry level soldering gear I found.

I use one of these pumps...actually, I use its worse little brother, but the one I have is sold out and more expensive than this one.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10212-HQ-Anti-static-Vacuum-Desolder-Pump-Tool-Desoldering-Tip-Solder-Remover/291352487929?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D29271%26meid%3D97182d5f079949ef801e5ddcd6579464%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D280839806977

Solder wise, I think I just grabbed whatever 60/40 was cheap off of ebay.

Offline Blaise170

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2691 on: Thu, 11 June 2015, 10:29:43 »
What I do is buy one good roll of 63/37 for soldering and then I'll buy a large amount of the cheap 60/40 for desoldering and cleaning the tip. I also use this desoldering pump: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00JFOR9G0/.
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Offline bcredbottle

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2692 on: Tue, 23 June 2015, 12:59:39 »
I am on the Keycool numpad drop. It has white LEDs. Can I put any LED's in there as long as they're 3mm, or is there some other compatibility consideration (e.g. resistance, color) that might affect my ability to swap in different LEDs?

Offline wes1099

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2693 on: Tue, 23 June 2015, 15:52:40 »
I am on the Keycool numpad drop. It has white LEDs. Can I put any LED's in there as long as they're 3mm, or is there some other compatibility consideration (e.g. resistance, color) that might affect my ability to swap in different LEDs?
Most 3mm LED's have a 'flange' around the bottom (small lip of plastic) that prevents you from inserting them into mx switches. You can either shave off that small lip of plastic, or you can get flangeless 3mm LEDs. You can get 3mm flangeless LEDs here (digikey), or here (maxkeyboards website) As far as resistance, you could swap the stock resistors for a resistor to match the particular LED, but the resistors are most likely tiny SMD resistors that will be rather difficult to solder. If you do not use the proper resistor to match the LED you might overvolt/undervolt it which might reduce the LED's lifetime. Also, if you do not use the proper resistor to match the LED, certain colors will be brighter/dimmer than others (if you use multiple colors).


Here is an example of a normal 3mm LED with a 'flange':


And here is an example of a 'flangeless' 3mm LED:
« Last Edit: Tue, 23 June 2015, 16:04:10 by wes1099 »
                                      
[Leopold FC660C]     [GON NeRD 60]    [Infinity Keyboard]    [ Model M Silver Label]
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                                                                                         [May 20, 1987]

Offline wes1099

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2694 on: Tue, 23 June 2015, 16:18:46 »
What I do is buy one good roll of 63/37 for soldering and then I'll buy a large amount of the cheap 60/40 for desoldering and cleaning the tip. I also use this desoldering pump: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00JFOR9G0/.
That's a good idea. Where I get my soldering gear there is only a $0.05 price difference between 63/37 and 60/40 (1lb spool) so I just buy the 63/37.
                                      
[Leopold FC660C]     [GON NeRD 60]    [Infinity Keyboard]    [ Model M Silver Label]
[Topre 45g Silent]     [Gateron Black]    [Cherry MX Black]     [Model Number 1390636]
                                                                                         [May 20, 1987]

Offline Ngt

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2695 on: Sat, 18 July 2015, 03:54:18 »
Do you know where I could find some soldering kit for noobies? Stuff like mini-drones or w/e to learn to solder before going on real $100 PCB ^^.

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Offline twiddle

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2696 on: Sat, 18 July 2015, 04:08:17 »

Offline phoenix1234

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2697 on: Sat, 18 July 2015, 04:23:21 »
or you can buy some Prototype PCB and practice through-hole soldering with 16-20awg copper wire
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390954497575
I like linear switches

Offline Ngt

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2698 on: Sat, 18 July 2015, 04:25:21 »
These aren't kits with actual uses as such, but if you want to practice SMD/drag soldering you could look at these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400888491402?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/381065552216?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/391113319830?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
5 bucks or so each, contains some 0805s and a bunch of SOIC/QFP parts.


Ok thanks and in order to practice for switches. Do you know where I could get some too?

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Offline Ngt

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #2699 on: Sat, 18 July 2015, 04:27:01 »
or you can buy some Prototype PCB and practice through-hole soldering with 16-20awg copper wire
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390954497575


Is it what you can use to practice soldering for switches?

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