Author Topic: The Living Soldering Thread  (Read 1642802 times)

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Offline Photoelectric

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1650 on: Mon, 13 January 2014, 13:57:48 »
Just wanted to update that I received my new multimeter today, and I my impressions from it are largely positive.  Would definitely recommend at that price.  It has good reviews too in terms of accuracy (some meters have good reviews and then a bunch of bad ones because they die fairly quickly for some reason--haven't seen anything bad for this one).  Just tested every resistor I've installed on a board as well as some other parameters, like continuity resistance through LED holes.

50797-0

Great for $20 or you can sometimes find it for less, like I did.
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Offline reziak

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1651 on: Thu, 16 January 2014, 12:03:54 »
Sorry if this has been covered before. New to soldering and started working for the first time last night on my Poker 2. I successfully desoldered all the switched and LED through holes!

One of the pads started lifting up a bit on one side (the rest of is fine) as the solder didn't get sucked up by the soldapullt on the first try. I'm hoping it's okay.

My question is this: do I need to wipe the PCB/plate/switches down with anything when I'm done to make sure I don't get any lead on my fingers while typing? I have a little dog who licks ny hands and don't want to give him a dose of lead anytime I use my keyboard. There was a lot of dust from the soldapullt...ing.

Most of the stuff I find online seems to be a lot of speculation or fear-mongering - hard to find anything worth reading. Thanks for your help, everyone!

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Offline Photoelectric

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1652 on: Thu, 16 January 2014, 12:13:19 »
Eh, your solder is 37% lead, so it's probably good practice to clean your workspace and definitely wash your hands well after you're done (as well as pick up any loose solder).  I think the only parts of the keyboard that get touched by solder would be your hands, the hole perimeters on the PCB, and switch bottoms.  Cleaning the bottom of the PCB with alcohol is generally for removing flux residue.
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Offline Melvang

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1653 on: Thu, 16 January 2014, 21:27:59 »
Gonna try and teach the wife to solder / desolder tomorrow.
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Offline JPG

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1654 on: Thu, 16 January 2014, 21:43:02 »
Ok, tried my soldering stuff for the first time tonight.

My **** stuff I had to practice on was ... **** stuff lol. I still managed to somewhat get the hang of it even if I needed to use a much greater temperature to try to unsolder the **** stuff.

So I am still a n00b, but at least I managed to solder my first real project: My techkey card!!! And it works and does not look disastrous at all.

Well it works well, except that when you have an hybrid English/French setting on your computer, well the card does not know! So / appears as é. I will leave it as is for now.

Also, trying to align some plate mount switches on a pcb with no plate all while soldering = impossible for me.

I am still very happy with my success!

Here's some pictures (damn card is so shinny under the light, too hard for my ****ty camera)

51248-0

51250-1
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Offline swill

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1655 on: Thu, 16 January 2014, 21:55:06 »
Ok, tried my soldering stuff for the first time tonight.

My **** stuff I had to practice on was ... **** stuff lol. I still managed to somewhat get the hang of it even if I needed to use a much greater temperature to try to unsolder the **** stuff.

So I am still a n00b, but at least I managed to solder my first real project: My techkey card!!! And it works and does not look disastrous at all.

Well it works well, except that when you have an hybrid English/French setting on your computer, well the card does not know! So / appears as é. I will leave it as is for now.

Also, trying to align some plate mount switches on a pcb with no plate all while soldering = impossible for me.

I am still very happy with my success!

Here's some pictures (damn card is so shinny under the light, too hard for my ****ty camera)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Worst potato pics 2014!!!   Focus man!!!  Focus!!!   :))

Good job btw on your first project.  Many more to come I am sure.  :P

Offline JPG

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1656 on: Thu, 16 January 2014, 21:57:55 »
Ok, tried my soldering stuff for the first time tonight.

My **** stuff I had to practice on was ... **** stuff lol. I still managed to somewhat get the hang of it even if I needed to use a much greater temperature to try to unsolder the **** stuff.

So I am still a n00b, but at least I managed to solder my first real project: My techkey card!!! And it works and does not look disastrous at all.

Well it works well, except that when you have an hybrid English/French setting on your computer, well the card does not know! So / appears as é. I will leave it as is for now.

Also, trying to align some plate mount switches on a pcb with no plate all while soldering = impossible for me.

I am still very happy with my success!

Here's some pictures (damn card is so shinny under the light, too hard for my ****ty camera)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Worst potato pics 2014!!!   Focus man!!!  Focus!!!   :))

Good job btw on your first project.  Many more to come I am sure.  :P

Thx! Btw, for the focus, imagine these where the 2 best pictures out of 20+
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Offline swill

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1657 on: Thu, 16 January 2014, 22:01:52 »
Ok, tried my soldering stuff for the first time tonight.

My **** stuff I had to practice on was ... **** stuff lol. I still managed to somewhat get the hang of it even if I needed to use a much greater temperature to try to unsolder the **** stuff.

So I am still a n00b, but at least I managed to solder my first real project: My techkey card!!! And it works and does not look disastrous at all.

Well it works well, except that when you have an hybrid English/French setting on your computer, well the card does not know! So / appears as é. I will leave it as is for now.

Also, trying to align some plate mount switches on a pcb with no plate all while soldering = impossible for me.

I am still very happy with my success!

Here's some pictures (damn card is so shinny under the light, too hard for my ****ty camera)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Worst potato pics 2014!!!   Focus man!!!  Focus!!!   :))

Good job btw on your first project.  Many more to come I am sure.  :P

Thx! Btw, for the focus, imagine these where the 2 best pictures out of 20+

WTF camera are you using?  Is it literally using a potato for power?  I am spoiled in the camera department, so I should shut up now.  :P

Offline HPE1000

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1658 on: Thu, 16 January 2014, 22:08:17 »
Ok, tried my soldering stuff for the first time tonight.

My **** stuff I had to practice on was ... **** stuff lol. I still managed to somewhat get the hang of it even if I needed to use a much greater temperature to try to unsolder the **** stuff.

So I am still a n00b, but at least I managed to solder my first real project: My techkey card!!! And it works and does not look disastrous at all.

Well it works well, except that when you have an hybrid English/French setting on your computer, well the card does not know! So / appears as é. I will leave it as is for now.

Also, trying to align some plate mount switches on a pcb with no plate all while soldering = impossible for me.

I am still very happy with my success!

Here's some pictures (damn card is so shinny under the light, too hard for my ****ty camera)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Worst potato pics 2014!!!   Focus man!!!  Focus!!!   :))

Good job btw on your first project.  Many more to come I am sure.  :P

Thx! Btw, for the focus, imagine these where the 2 best pictures out of 20+
I lol'd out loud

Offline swill

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1659 on: Thu, 16 January 2014, 22:32:56 »
Ok, tried my soldering stuff for the first time tonight.

My **** stuff I had to practice on was ... **** stuff lol. I still managed to somewhat get the hang of it even if I needed to use a much greater temperature to try to unsolder the **** stuff.

So I am still a n00b, but at least I managed to solder my first real project: My techkey card!!! And it works and does not look disastrous at all.

Well it works well, except that when you have an hybrid English/French setting on your computer, well the card does not know! So / appears as é. I will leave it as is for now.

Also, trying to align some plate mount switches on a pcb with no plate all while soldering = impossible for me.

I am still very happy with my success!

Here's some pictures (damn card is so shinny under the light, too hard for my ****ty camera)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Worst potato pics 2014!!!   Focus man!!!  Focus!!!   :))

Good job btw on your first project.  Many more to come I am sure.  :P

Thx! Btw, for the focus, imagine these where the 2 best pictures out of 20+

WTF camera are you using?  Is it literally using a potato for power?  I am spoiled in the camera department, so I should shut up now.  :P

Sorry JPG, I am an ass, so I will make it up to you.

PM me your mailing address and I will send you a first generation digital camera for FREE.  :)  It is not a good camera by any stretch, but it does focus (sometimes).  Hint, use the Macro setting when shooting close.  :)

Here is a picture that it took to prove it works.
51256-0

And here is the camera I am offering you.
51258-1 51260-2

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1660 on: Thu, 16 January 2014, 22:37:19 »
Ok, tried my soldering stuff for the first time tonight.

My **** stuff I had to practice on was ... **** stuff lol. I still managed to somewhat get the hang of it even if I needed to use a much greater temperature to try to unsolder the **** stuff.

So I am still a n00b, but at least I managed to solder my first real project: My techkey card!!! And it works and does not look disastrous at all.

Well it works well, except that when you have an hybrid English/French setting on your computer, well the card does not know! So / appears as é. I will leave it as is for now.

Also, trying to align some plate mount switches on a pcb with no plate all while soldering = impossible for me.

I am still very happy with my success!

Here's some pictures (damn card is so shinny under the light, too hard for my ****ty camera)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Worst potato pics 2014!!!   Focus man!!!  Focus!!!   :))

Good job btw on your first project.  Many more to come I am sure.  :P

Thx! Btw, for the focus, imagine these where the 2 best pictures out of 20+

WTF camera are you using?  Is it literally using a potato for power?  I am spoiled in the camera department, so I should shut up now.  :P

Sorry JPG, I am an ass, so I will make it up to you.

PM me your mailing address and I will send you a first generation digital camera for FREE.  :)  It is not a good camera by any stretch, but it does focus (sometimes).  Hint, use the Macro setting when shooting close.  :)

Here is a picture that it took to prove it works.
(Attachment Link)

And here is the camera I am offering you.
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

Haha, that's a funny string of events.  Also, you should clean that keyboard.   :thumb:

Offline swill

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1661 on: Thu, 16 January 2014, 22:40:02 »
Ok, tried my soldering stuff for the first time tonight.

My **** stuff I had to practice on was ... **** stuff lol. I still managed to somewhat get the hang of it even if I needed to use a much greater temperature to try to unsolder the **** stuff.

So I am still a n00b, but at least I managed to solder my first real project: My techkey card!!! And it works and does not look disastrous at all.

Well it works well, except that when you have an hybrid English/French setting on your computer, well the card does not know! So / appears as é. I will leave it as is for now.

Also, trying to align some plate mount switches on a pcb with no plate all while soldering = impossible for me.

I am still very happy with my success!

Here's some pictures (damn card is so shinny under the light, too hard for my ****ty camera)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Worst potato pics 2014!!!   Focus man!!!  Focus!!!   :))

Good job btw on your first project.  Many more to come I am sure.  :P

Thx! Btw, for the focus, imagine these where the 2 best pictures out of 20+

WTF camera are you using?  Is it literally using a potato for power?  I am spoiled in the camera department, so I should shut up now.  :P

Sorry JPG, I am an ass, so I will make it up to you.

PM me your mailing address and I will send you a first generation digital camera for FREE.  :)  It is not a good camera by any stretch, but it does focus (sometimes).  Hint, use the Macro setting when shooting close.  :)

Here is a picture that it took to prove it works.
(Attachment Link)

And here is the camera I am offering you.
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

Haha, that's a funny string of events.  Also, you should clean that keyboard.   :thumb:

I know, I will when I take the keycaps off.  But I am too lazy and dont have another board to work on while the caps are off.  So its dirty right now...  I have some nylon brushes coming which will prompt me to clean it when they arrive...

Offline JPG

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1662 on: Thu, 16 January 2014, 22:46:34 »
Ok, tried my soldering stuff for the first time tonight.

My **** stuff I had to practice on was ... **** stuff lol. I still managed to somewhat get the hang of it even if I needed to use a much greater temperature to try to unsolder the **** stuff.

So I am still a n00b, but at least I managed to solder my first real project: My techkey card!!! And it works and does not look disastrous at all.

Well it works well, except that when you have an hybrid English/French setting on your computer, well the card does not know! So / appears as é. I will leave it as is for now.

Also, trying to align some plate mount switches on a pcb with no plate all while soldering = impossible for me.

I am still very happy with my success!

Here's some pictures (damn card is so shinny under the light, too hard for my ****ty camera)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Worst potato pics 2014!!!   Focus man!!!  Focus!!!   :))

Good job btw on your first project.  Many more to come I am sure.  :P

Thx! Btw, for the focus, imagine these where the 2 best pictures out of 20+

WTF camera are you using?  Is it literally using a potato for power?  I am spoiled in the camera department, so I should shut up now.  :P

Sorry JPG, I am an ass, so I will make it up to you.

PM me your mailing address and I will send you a first generation digital camera for FREE.  :)  It is not a good camera by any stretch, but it does focus (sometimes).  Hint, use the Macro setting when shooting close.  :)

Here is a picture that it took to prove it works.
(Attachment Link)

And here is the camera I am offering you.
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

Wow, thx for the offer, but I am using a sony cybershot. Must be a relatively low quality camera that's like 6 years old, but still does the job usually. But since I use it rarely, I never mess with the different modes and leave it on auto. I should try the other ones once in a while, but I am not much into photography at all lol.

I will try again tomorrow with different settings to see if I am able to do something better. If not, maybe I'll take your offer!

BTW, we should start an IC to see if people would be interested in a Montreal meet up or the likes. There used to be others from Montreal active at some point, but I have not seen other than you and me for a while. But I suck at organising things lol.
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Offline Photoelectric

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1663 on: Thu, 16 January 2014, 22:58:28 »
Auto should be fine for focusing.  You're just not focusing somehow.  Are you pushing the shot button halfway down to focus before releasing and pushing it again to take your photo?  Might be you're holding the camera too closely to the card, so it can't focus (there's always a minimum focus distance with cameras).
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Offline tjcaustin

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1664 on: Thu, 16 January 2014, 23:00:14 »
It's also possible that there might be something in the lens/mirror of the camera or the anti-shake isn't working right considering the age of the camera.

From my experience, if you try to auto focus and the camera can't, there will be some kind of warning and possibly even a lock out where you can't actually snap a picture.

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1665 on: Thu, 16 January 2014, 23:00:36 »
Auto should be fine for focusing.  You're just not focusing somehow.  Are you pushing the shot button halfway down to focus before releasing and pushing it again to take your photo?  Might be you're holding the camera too closely to the card, so it can't focus (there's always a minimum focus distance with cameras).

That would be my guess too.  Try taking a shot from further away - it's always better to have to crop than be out of focus.  :)

Offline Larken

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1666 on: Thu, 16 January 2014, 23:19:27 »
I had occasion to clean my Goot desoldering pump (essentially the same thing as a soldapult from what I can see), and thought I might as well take some pictures for those who might want to do the same for theirs. The pump can be opened up easily by twisting (self explanatory).

This is what happens to your pump after using it for a while.



Note the black ring? That's the o-ring that's responsible for the suction force when the pump trigger is released. Note that there's quite abit of solder flakes on it (I cleaned it on one side before I thought I should take some pictures). The flakes will decrease the suction force. We'd want to get rid of them, or you could just wash it, but don't do it in the sink. never a good thing to dump soldering flakes into the pipeline imo. so one paper towel later:






after the o-ring is clean, lubing it will provide a good seal for the pump. I had quite a bit of superlube left over from keyboard lubing in the past, so that's what I used.



cleaned and lubed (note that I used quite alot more than what was necessary - as I didn't have a brush at hand to make an even layer, but this will work):



Close it up and it'll probably be working as good as brand new (or better, as mine didn't come factory lubed).
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Offline Kayliss

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1667 on: Sat, 25 January 2014, 23:07:56 »
I need a some advice regarding a new iron. I do mostly small/fine work with a little hand SMD soldering, quite a few things more delicate than keyboards.  At the moment I'm leaning towards a JBC other options are maybe a Hakko 951 or a low end Metcal, up to about $450-500USD. Options are fairly limited buying locally. Basically need something reliable/durable and that will be comfortable for long periods of use. Input would be appreciated.  :-*


Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1668 on: Sun, 26 January 2014, 11:46:53 »
these pretty wildly different stations. what kind of SMT work do you do? there is a point at which hot air is the only answer. the really tiny tipped irons like the JBCs just make it way to easy to move your wrist a little bit and end up frying your chip.

at your price range and a little above i can get you edsyn stations at a large enough discount that will pay for shipping to Aus. in particular, check out the 2020-230 and the SMT crown series of tips. the smt tips fit standard IC shapes without resorting to hot air. however, if you do a lot of smt work, i HIGHLY recommend a dual hot air station. I would heavily consider the edsyn 1036, a step-down converter and an edsyn cl1080. you can swap between hot air and contact soldering with this setup and the hot air uses a small turbine type air pump instead of a bellows style like the cheap chinese stations. the turbine is smaller, quieter, more reliable and gives more consistent air volume per unit time.

that said, if you can find a crown tip for your major smt targets, i _highly_ recommend the 2020 (the unit is actually 24vdc-powered so i refer to both the 230v and 120v versions when i say 2020). that is what i use now and would not go back to a hakko in a million years. that said, metcal does have some nice offerings if your workflow works well with tip-controlled temp.

edit: also, not to rush you, but my prices on edsyn equipment go up about between 5-10% across the board as of the 31st :(. if any of those options look good to you, moving quickly can save you a couple bucks.
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 January 2014, 11:51:34 by mkawa »

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline Kayliss

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1669 on: Sun, 26 January 2014, 12:42:26 »
Well I should say the JBC station is top of my list, unless I can find a very good reason not to choose it.  :p  I actually invested in a decent stand alone hot air unit not too long ago.
The options can be quite limited here, especially when trying to work to a budget, but I'd rather get it local in case of any issues, shipping time alone makes it a pain.

How do you find the 2020 for comfort? I prefer the look of the JBC handle, I've got a buggered shoulder though, so smaller/lighter may be better for me. (I'm getting very good at soldering left handed recently!  :eek:)

An Edsyn would have been on the top of my list if they were available from one of the major Aus retailers. Anyway tomorrow is a day off here so i'll have to order something by Tuesday.

Thanks for your input Mkawa. Time for me to go looking at the Edsyn site again
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 January 2014, 12:46:46 by Kayliss »

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1670 on: Sun, 26 January 2014, 13:39:44 »
2020 is pretty fantastic for comfort and general ergonomics. it's quite small, just a 6" diam control station with all the controls, including the trim pots for calibration up front and clearly marked. as i have mentioned before, the edsyn pods are amazing. they help contain heat so that very little power is used at idle and are extremely easy to clean. you just put a new piece of wax paper-ish stuff in it when the only one is pockmarked with molten solder marks. there is a standby mode that brings temperature down to min in one press then heats the iron up again in a few seconds on second press. the heater is partially exposed, unlike the fully sheathed AC heaters in some of the other units; both designs are good, but basically what's happening is that they're designing to the size of the heater. smaller heaters should be fully sheathed for strength and larger heaters (the 2020 heater is extremely large, and that it and the build is what you're paying for) can be exposed for tip contact and to minimize the effect of differential thermal expansion.

i've done a full take-apart, and it turns out that there is undocumented functionality in this board. as well. it was originally meant to be the basis for an all-in-one unit (and may still end up being that) that would do hot-air, desolder and solder all in the same station. most of the functionality is still there, and if you want to hack on it (although you void your warranty obviously), the mcu debug port is happily sitting open at the back of the unit.

anyway, for comfort, you really want a big fat handle and an appropriate amount of power going through the tip. a 50W heater that is very large and has lots of surface area is going to be a lot better than a 150W element which is tiny along with a handle that's very very small. i can see how some people might think "SMT devices are tiny! therefore i need a pinpoint tip!" but i think they're missing the point and have not learned to solder properly. soldering is about surface area. the more surface area you have in contact with a heater, the more efficient your thermal junction is going to be and the higher the diffuse temperature is going to be across the two materials. so you don't want to throw power into an iron willy nilly. that's just going to result in a lot of burned out components. you want to use as little power as possible to reach your process temp and then tune the amount of surface area in contact with the joint via different tip shapes and sizes.

finally, the usb feature on this and the weller wxp series is just plain stupid.

i don't know if there's a local aus distributor for edsyn products and my POCs won't get back to me until monday, but suspect there is. that said, i may actually be able to beat their price even after shipping. i really love these stations. they are simple and straightforward and have everything you need and nothing you don't. the layout, even internally is just ridiculously clean. this was actually one of Bill Fortune's (Bill invented the soldapullt) last projects, and it's just this beautiful paean to contact soldering.

tjcaustin also has one and loves it just as much as i do. if he wants to chime in...
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 January 2014, 13:45:19 by mkawa »

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline tjcaustin

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1671 on: Sun, 26 January 2014, 15:37:19 »
2020 is pretty fantastic for comfort and general ergonomics. it's quite small, just a 6" diam control station with all the controls, including the trim pots for calibration up front and clearly marked. as i have mentioned before, the edsyn pods are amazing. they help contain heat so that very little power is used at idle and are extremely easy to clean. you just put a new piece of wax paper-ish stuff in it when the only one is pockmarked with molten solder marks. there is a standby mode that brings temperature down to min in one press then heats the iron up again in a few seconds on second press. the heater is partially exposed, unlike the fully sheathed AC heaters in some of the other units; both designs are good, but basically what's happening is that they're designing to the size of the heater. smaller heaters should be fully sheathed for strength and larger heaters (the 2020 heater is extremely large, and that it and the build is what you're paying for) can be exposed for tip contact and to minimize the effect of differential thermal expansion.

i've done a full take-apart, and it turns out that there is undocumented functionality in this board. as well. it was originally meant to be the basis for an all-in-one unit (and may still end up being that) that would do hot-air, desolder and solder all in the same station. most of the functionality is still there, and if you want to hack on it (although you void your warranty obviously), the mcu debug port is happily sitting open at the back of the unit.

anyway, for comfort, you really want a big fat handle and an appropriate amount of power going through the tip. a 50W heater that is very large and has lots of surface area is going to be a lot better than a 150W element which is tiny along with a handle that's very very small. i can see how some people might think "SMT devices are tiny! therefore i need a pinpoint tip!" but i think they're missing the point and have not learned to solder properly. soldering is about surface area. the more surface area you have in contact with a heater, the more efficient your thermal junction is going to be and the higher the diffuse temperature is going to be across the two materials. so you don't want to throw power into an iron willy nilly. that's just going to result in a lot of burned out components. you want to use as little power as possible to reach your process temp and then tune the amount of surface area in contact with the joint via different tip shapes and sizes.

finally, the usb feature on this and the weller wxp series is just plain stupid.

i don't know if there's a local aus distributor for edsyn products and my POCs won't get back to me until monday, but suspect there is. that said, i may actually be able to beat their price even after shipping. i really love these stations. they are simple and straightforward and have everything you need and nothing you don't. the layout, even internally is just ridiculously clean. this was actually one of Bill Fortune's (Bill invented the soldapullt) last projects, and it's just this beautiful paean to contact soldering.

tjcaustin also has one and loves it just as much as i do. if he wants to chime in...

I don't, but I do love my 2020.  The feel and functionality is just several leagues beyond anything else I've touched.

Offline komar007

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1672 on: Sun, 26 January 2014, 16:18:22 »
Well I should say the JBC station is top of my list, unless I can find a very good reason not to choose it.  :p  I actually invested in a decent stand alone hot air unit not too long ago.
The options can be quite limited here, especially when trying to work to a budget, but I'd rather get it local in case of any issues, shipping time alone makes it a pain.

How do you find the 2020 for comfort? I prefer the look of the JBC handle, I've got a buggered shoulder though, so smaller/lighter may be better for me. (I'm getting very good at soldering left handed recently!  :o )

An Edsyn would have been on the top of my list if they were available from one of the major Aus retailers. Anyway tomorrow is a day off here so i'll have to order something by Tuesday.

Thanks for your input Mkawa. Time for me to go looking at the Edsyn site again


Hi,
if I can help a bit here, I've recently switched to ersa. I have one of the low-end ersa models, i-CON NANO, and I absolutely love it. The iron is smaller than anything else I've used and it lays in the hand almost like a pencil. There's a decent choice of tips, it comes with a chisel of course, none of these conical things and has enough power for anything I need. It's way below your mentioned budget too. I was also checking JBC and edsyn, but in the end I chose ersa, because of lower price and the small and light iron, first of all.


EDIT: after a while, I think you might have the same kind of problem getting an Ersa as we have getting a Hakko in Europe...
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 January 2014, 16:26:07 by komar007 »
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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1673 on: Sun, 26 January 2014, 19:16:23 »
ersa seems to be EU only, i'm afraid :(

i'd never heard of them before now actually. nice looking stations

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Offline Kayliss

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1674 on: Mon, 27 January 2014, 03:24:47 »

I was also checking JBC and edsyn, but in the end I chose ersa, because of lower price and the small and light iron, first of all.


Thanks Komar. It seems like Farnell here stocks some Ersa products but not the nano, I'll contact them in the morning and see how I go, otherwise I'll grab the JBC. :)

Offline tricheboars

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1675 on: Wed, 29 January 2014, 13:10:06 »
what brand of flux do you guys recommend? there isnt a flux link on the first page with a recommended brand.

also super lube is super lube right? are there different formulas with the Super Lube brand?

i was going to buy this:
http://www.amazon.com/Synthetic-Grease-Syncolon-Purpose-Lubricant/dp/B000XBH9HI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391022505&sr=8-1&keywords=super+lube

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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1676 on: Wed, 29 January 2014, 14:45:08 »
what brand of flux do you guys recommend? there isnt a flux link on the first page with a recommended brand.

also super lube is super lube right? are there different formulas with the Super Lube brand?

i was going to buy this:
http://www.amazon.com/Synthetic-Grease-Syncolon-Purpose-Lubricant/dp/B000XBH9HI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391022505&sr=8-1&keywords=super+lube



What will you be using the SuperLube for, lubing stabilizers?
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1677 on: Wed, 29 January 2014, 14:55:37 »
what brand of flux do you guys recommend? there isnt a flux link on the first page with a recommended brand.

also super lube is super lube right? are there different formulas with the Super Lube brand?

i was going to buy this:
http://www.amazon.com/Synthetic-Grease-Syncolon-Purpose-Lubricant/dp/B000XBH9HI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391022505&sr=8-1&keywords=super+lube



What will you be using the SuperLube for, lubing stabilizers?

jd don't you lube your switches with it??

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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1678 on: Wed, 29 January 2014, 15:07:03 »
what brand of flux do you guys recommend? there isnt a flux link on the first page with a recommended brand.

also super lube is super lube right? are there different formulas with the Super Lube brand?

i was going to buy this:
http://www.amazon.com/Synthetic-Grease-Syncolon-Purpose-Lubricant/dp/B000XBH9HI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391022505&sr=8-1&keywords=super+lube



What will you be using the SuperLube for, lubing stabilizers?

jd don't you lube your switches with it??

* spamray runs and hides

* jdcarpe pulls out the hand cannon...
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Offline Parak

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1679 on: Wed, 29 January 2014, 15:42:12 »
what brand of flux do you guys recommend? there isnt a flux link on the first page with a recommended brand.

I use http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008UH4DT4 in the 125ml bottle, dispensing via a fine tipped brush. I sometimes also use Kester 951 (also in small bottle form via ebay), but only when I use fresh smt parts and pcbs where I need minimal fluxing, and even then I don't like it all that much - the smell is horrid compared to regular RMA flux.

Offline tricheboars

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1680 on: Thu, 30 January 2014, 14:12:19 »
thanks parak.

JD and Spam i want to use the super lube for Ergo Clears that i intend to install on my ergo dox.
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1681 on: Thu, 30 January 2014, 14:35:45 »
thanks parak.

JD and Spam i want to use the super lube for Ergo Clears that i intend to install on my ergo dox.

Please use Krytox instead. :(
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Offline tricheboars

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1682 on: Fri, 31 January 2014, 13:22:34 »
thanks parak.

JD and Spam i want to use the super lube for Ergo Clears that i intend to install on my ergo dox.

Please use Krytox instead. :(

any reason why JD? i already bought some SuperLube but it was like 3 bucks so whatever. just curious on why you are repping that brand over the seemingly favorite SuperLube?
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1683 on: Fri, 31 January 2014, 14:01:04 »
thanks parak.

JD and Spam i want to use the super lube for Ergo Clears that i intend to install on my ergo dox.

Please use Krytox instead. :(

any reason why JD? i already bought some SuperLube but it was like 3 bucks so whatever. just curious on why you are repping that brand over the seemingly favorite SuperLube?

:facepalm:

I could care less about a brand name for its own sake. It's all about the properties of the lubricant. SuperLube degrades over time. It's not at all as good as Krytox. 18 months ago, it was damn near impossible to get Krytox for a reasonable price, but that just isn't so anymore. There is no reason to use anything BUT Krytox for lubing switches now. Also, with SuperLube, you may have to reapply the lube periodically, to keep the switches smooth. I can't say for sure, as I've never lubed switches with SuperLube, but I have heard anecdotal evidence that this may be true.

As someone who buys keyboards seconhand quite a bit, if I bought a keyboard from someone who advertised the switches as "lubed," and they were done with SuperLube instead of Krytox, I would take issue. If you are never going to sell your keyboard to anyone, use whatever you like! :)
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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1684 on: Sat, 01 February 2014, 00:04:06 »
superlube is a ptfe powder lubricant suspended in various kinds of synthetic hydrocarbon. they have thick hydro, thin hydro, etc, but that's the basic idea. krytox and silicone greases use polymer substrates that are significantly less volatile. the important difference here is that they have higher operating temperatures (ie, they do not vaporize at low specific energies because they are relatively inert polymer matrices), and they do not react with plastics. superlube could very well react with your plastic parts over time, or immediately depending on which formulation you use. i do think there are more inert formulations of superlube, but i don't know enough about it, and the composition is kind of trade secrety. that said, the major characteristic of superlube is that it is the cheapest lubricant with some form of ptfe in it. that is basically it. keep in mind that this is actually the commercial goal of superlube -- to be the cheapest lubricant with ptfe in it. blaster(tm) is the only thing i know of that's cheaper and they only have a very volatile hydrocarbon formulation that's supposed to be a dry thing, but they claim that the hydrocarbon is inert or vaporizes too quickly to degrade plastics.

regardless, i have put a huge amount of time, effort and money into making krytox available for the community because it's superior in every way. krytox has two components: a PFPE oil, which is a completely flourine capped polymer substrate, and very fine ptfe powder that is processed such that it forms a matrix that contains the oil (notice how the formulation of krytox is exactly the opposite of most of these ptfe lubricants, the ptfe contains the oil instead of the other way around). the radio edit is that this allows the surface stiction of the ptfe that everyone else claims to actually happen. tension keeps the ptfe in place, and the ptfe keeps the lubridicity-providing oil in place.

further, PFPE oil can be refined and formulated such that it's one of the most inert compounds in common existence. it is a completely fluorine capped polymer; fluorine capping is valuable because fluorine is extremely volatile (ever mess with hydrofluoric acid? please don't, it's really really nasty stuff) and satisfying all its bonds means that a heck of a lot of bonds have to be broken to expose any molecules of the polymer. this makes for an incredibly inert polymer that _never goes away_. this is great for us, because desoldering a keyboard, opening every switch and lightly brushing friction surfaces is a HUGE PAIN IN THE BEHIND that you definitely do NOT WANT TO DO EVERY MONTH.

also, it's much harder to melt the ptfe in krytox than it is to melt the ptfe in any other ptfe-containing compound. this is quite good because ptfe release formaldehyde when it melts at 260C. notice that once solders between 350C (leaded solders) and 450C (unleaded solders). ventilation is also important if you have any hydrofluoric acid around. nasty nasty stuff.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline riotonthebay

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1685 on: Sat, 01 February 2014, 06:30:02 »
That was super educational, kawa! I wasn't the one with questions, but thanks for writing that out regardless :thumb:

I wish this thread were more like CPTBadAss' Q&A thread now, so that this answer could go in the OP under "Why Krytox?"

Offline tricheboars

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1686 on: Sun, 02 February 2014, 03:02:01 »
thanks parak.

JD and Spam i want to use the super lube for Ergo Clears that i intend to install on my ergo dox.

Please use Krytox instead. :(

any reason why JD? i already bought some SuperLube but it was like 3 bucks so whatever. just curious on why you are repping that brand over the seemingly favorite SuperLube?

:facepalm:

I could care less about a brand name for its own sake. It's all about the properties of the lubricant. SuperLube degrades over time. It's not at all as good as Krytox. 18 months ago, it was damn near impossible to get Krytox for a reasonable price, but that just isn't so anymore. There is no reason to use anything BUT Krytox for lubing switches now. Also, with SuperLube, you may have to reapply the lube periodically, to keep the switches smooth. I can't say for sure, as I've never lubed switches with SuperLube, but I have heard anecdotal evidence that this may be true.

As someone who buys keyboards seconhand quite a bit, if I bought a keyboard from someone who advertised the switches as "lubed," and they were done with SuperLube instead of Krytox, I would take issue. If you are never going to sell your keyboard to anyone, use whatever you like! :)

I bought a lube kit from originative because of you! ;-) -
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Offline Beca

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1687 on: Sat, 08 February 2014, 04:18:03 »
I just soldered my first board. Used this http://www.frys.com/product/2258018.

It took forever to heat up. Surprised at how easy it is to solder switches though!

Also, I don't have any desoldering equipment, but had to remove a switch after soldering it. So I heated up the solder joints until it was liquidy and slowly pulled the pins out so I could pry it from the board. Is this okay to do?
« Last Edit: Sat, 08 February 2014, 04:24:15 by Beca »

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1688 on: Sat, 08 February 2014, 07:44:36 »
I just soldered my first board. Used this http://www.frys.com/product/2258018.

It took forever to heat up. Surprised at how easy it is to solder switches though!

Also, I don't have any desoldering equipment, but had to remove a switch after soldering it. So I heated up the solder joints until it was liquidy and slowly pulled the pins out so I could pry it from the board. Is this okay to do?
well yes and no. yes in that it gets the job done. no in that you're going to burn yourself doing that, and it will hurt. believe me, i know. that said, burning yourself (a _lot_) is one way to go about learning to solder :P


to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline Beca

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1689 on: Sun, 09 February 2014, 00:24:11 »
I just soldered my first board. Used this http://www.frys.com/product/2258018.

It took forever to heat up. Surprised at how easy it is to solder switches though!

Also, I don't have any desoldering equipment, but had to remove a switch after soldering it. So I heated up the solder joints until it was liquidy and slowly pulled the pins out so I could pry it from the board. Is this okay to do?
well yes and no. yes in that it gets the job done. no in that you're going to burn yourself doing that, and it will hurt. believe me, i know. that said, burning yourself (a _lot_) is one way to go about learning to solder :P
Thanks for the answer. I burned myself once already when it was barely heating up. I can't imagine how painful it would be for the molten solder to touch my skin  :eek:

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1690 on: Sun, 09 February 2014, 13:13:34 »
it only hurts for a second, then your brain shovels dopamine like crazy and the nerve and tissue there cook and kind of die (but just a little! they get better!).

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Offline tjcaustin

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1691 on: Sun, 09 February 2014, 13:16:25 »
it only hurts for a second, then your brain shovels dopamine like crazy and the nerve and tissue there cook and kind of die (but just a little! they get better!).

And then, depending on the size of the burn, it starts to itch like mad.  The little solder pops I've got just sting quick and are done, but I somehow laid about an inch of my soldering tip on one of my fingers and it wasn't as painful re: kawa's explanation, then it just itched for 4 days and blistered.

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1692 on: Sun, 09 February 2014, 15:28:56 »
protip: run cold water over burns for as long as possible when you first get them. helps limit the damage of the burn and accelerates healing.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline yasuo

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1693 on: Mon, 10 February 2014, 06:48:40 »
how to solder diode to switch i've try it's quite difficult :confused:
any tutorial esay way :)
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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1694 on: Mon, 10 February 2014, 08:52:28 »
can you clarify? it should be quite easy to solder through-hole diodes into switches..

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1695 on: Mon, 10 February 2014, 09:05:39 »
i'cant direct hold 3 stuff (solder,tin,the diodes)if it could, it would be a mess. where is hole diode?
can you give me a pics I will better understand :p
« Last Edit: Mon, 10 February 2014, 09:38:05 by yasuo »
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Offline BlueBär

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1696 on: Mon, 10 February 2014, 09:27:25 »
He's trying direct wiring btw. As I said in the SQSA thread, put some solder on the tip first, I think that should work.

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1697 on: Mon, 10 February 2014, 11:26:20 »
oh, yes, for direct wiring, pop a bit of solder on each side of the joint independently then put some flux on both sides, hold in place and heat. the joint will form like magic. the trick is your hands need to be very steady or else you're going to end up with cold joints.

the better way to do this is to make sure you have a mechanical connection before trying to make the electrical connection. make little hooks out of each side of the wire and secure by interlocking the hooks, then make the electrical joint like you'd made any other electrical joint

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Offline Photekq

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1698 on: Mon, 10 February 2014, 11:28:44 »
What's a good way to thoroughly wash a PCB? It's a GH60 PCB and I've got all the SMD soldered up, and I cleaned each section with IPA after soldering. And yet almost the entire board is really sticky from the flux.

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1699 on: Mon, 10 February 2014, 11:53:00 »
Use a toothbrush with IPA!
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