Acer Aspire One

[bigpook]

Don't have a link but I was reading somewhere that some vendor/vendors will be releasing netbooks using ARM chips. The article sounded fairly positive. It mentions the ARM chip being more powerful then the Atom and also better on battery life.

[bhtooefr]

The ARM Cortex-A8 is probably within spitting distance of the 1.6 GHz Atom... when at 1 GHz.

(Well, some benchmarks need a quad-core 1 GHz Cortex-A9 to match a 1.6 GHz Atom. But certain real-world benchmarks indicate at least clock parity if not better.)

Really, though, a dual-core 1 GHz Cortex-A9 should be enough to thrash an Atom, at much, much lower power levels.

[wheel83]

I dont know if this is related.  

but, I bought an asus 10" and i really disliked the speed of the atom.  or lack there of.  

I have decided to get a dell xt 12.1" tablet.  its dual core and I think I dont like anything under that.  its very tough on the eyes.

[bhtooefr]

Really, I do like the performance of a Core 2 Duo over something like an Atom, although I think it's today's bloated software that's to blame for us "needing" such performance.

I've got an Acorn RiscPC with a 233 MHz StrongARM (roughly 1.0 DMIPS/MHz - so just over a TENTH of the speed of a 1 GHz Cortex-A8 (which is at 2.0 DMIPS/MHz, and almost five times the clock speed) - and that's not counting the fact that that 1.0 DMIPS/MHz figure is on a 64-bit wide, 66 MHz data bus... and the RiscPC has a 32-bit wide, 16 MHz data bus, so anything that doesn't fit into the CPU's cache is ridiculously slow,) and it's perfectly usable online.

Want to know how?

The OS, RISC OS, is a very, very lightweight OS - it fits into 6 MiB, and an older version that's just as capable at internet browsing (well, OK, it doesn't have a DHCP client, but once you get an IP address...) is in 4 MiB of ROM.

The web browser? It's an open source browser, called NetSurf, that was developed from the ground up for this platform, but there's a GTK+ port, so it'll run on *nix. It's got good HTML and CSS support, although it does have the rather huge drawback of missing JavaScript altogether. However, it's one of the projects in Google Summer of Code, and one of the biggest things they'll be working on is fixing the DOM so that JavaScript is feasible.

Myself, I'm a proponent of green software. The reason why hardware is so power consuming nowadays is because it has to be, to keep pace with modern software. But modern software is coded inefficiently because "you don't have to worry about CPU and RAM, they're cheap." I've actually been told that many, many times. Ridiculous.

[o2dazone]

I don't know if talking about illegal apps is allowed here, but considering it's about stealing Windows, I don't think iMav would mind LOL

If you're familiar with a windows OS and don't want to install the bloatware that Windows XP (with Service Packs) is, the alternative is TinyXP - it's basically a 'trimmed down' version of Windows via nLite, with some pretty decent tweaks that allow it to run optimally. I use it on an Asus EEE PC 900, and it runs great. A little laggy here and there when doing big stuff, but fast enough to run Quakelive and Diablo II at fullscreen with no problems and no frame loss.

I'd provide you with a link to the ware, but that might be going too far so
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=tinyxp+platinum+edition+2

[iMav]

good discussion.  For my needs, the atom CPU in my current AAO has enough power.  Like I said before, additional vertical resolution would be a driver to go with something different.  I'll probably hit Best Buy and look at the Dell and ASUS offerings.  That higher-resolution HP mini sounds pretty sweet though.

[Busty]

You can get the Dell mini10 with a higher resolution, too.

[iMav]

You can get the Dell mini10 with a higher resolution, too.

However, the ram is non-upgradable on the 10" Dell (1GB, soldered).  That's a definite deal-breaker.

[FKSSR]

I have had a hard time finding the max. ram capacity of netbooks on the market.  The highest I've seen is 1.5gb, I think.  I'm pretty sure the ASUS and Lenovo netbooks can go up to 1.5gb.  I want to say I saw one that could do 2gb, but it was really expensive, and I can't remember which brand it was now.

[IBI]

However, the ram is non-upgradable on the 10" Dell (1GB, soldered).  That's a definite deal-breaker.

You need 2GB even with the Atom CPU?

I have had a hard time finding the max. ram capacity of netbooks on the market.  The highest I've seen is 1.5gb, I think.  I'm pretty sure the ASUS and Lenovo netbooks can go up to 1.5gb.  I want to say I saw one that could do 2gb, but it was really expensive, and I can't remember which brand it was now.

Well all the old Asus ones used to happily accept 2GB, It'd be odd if they'd reduced the capacity for the new ones.

EDIT: The ARM-based netbooks look interesting hardware wise but what's the software going to be like for a non-X86 CPU? Do they support flash for example?

[bhtooefr]

IBI: Some of these netbooks also have 4200 RPM HDDs. You ESPECIALLY need more RAM then, to prevent swapping.

Anyway, the ARM-based ones... the full Ubuntu distribution will be available, the full Debian distribution is available, and Adobe's working on porting Flash 10. (Flash 9 is already available on the Linux-based, ARM-based Nokia N8xx series.)

[iMav]

I pulled the trigger on an HP 2140 HD mini.  Ordered direct from HP's site...will probably take a week to ship.

 - N270 Atom CPU (1.6GHz, 512kb L2 cache, 533Mhz FSB)
 - 10.1" LED-backlit display (16:9, 1366x768)
 - 6-cell battery
 - 160GB hdd (5400rpm)
 - 1GB ram (have a 2GB stick waiting)

$449

[lal]

I got a Samsung NC10 for my girlfriend, with basically the same attributes.  There was a comparison of current netbooks in a famous German magazine (c't) recently.  The good things about the NC10: very bright non-glare display, 7 hours real world battery life and a good (by netbook standards) keyboard (of course ).  The NC10 has a 1024x600 resolution and that's already a good bit over the limit dpi-wise.  1366x768 on 10" would be way too much for me. (I know you can enlarge font sizes but that: 1. looks ugly, 2. doesn't work always (on Windows that is)).

[iMav]

What made you decide to go for this Atom? There's so much choice there.. And I'd be interested to know how it works out for you.

The screen resolution was the clincher.  Having less than 768 of vertical resolution is a pain in the ass, IMHO.

[o2dazone]

Let me know what you think of the Atom. It's the only reason I've held off on buying a netbook, all the new ones are the this new cpu technology. I think my tastes just might fit better with a cheap laptop though

[IBI]

I think you're gonna love this.  I have a 9" Fujitsu P1510D 1024x600 - that extra kick you're getting is enough to make a netbook a lot more useful.  A lot of Adobe stuff requires the 768.  Plus, I don't think HP uses the "surplus" displays the other netbook guys do.

8.9" at 1024x640 is only 135dpi, 10.1" at 1366x768 is 155 dpi. I find the 135dpi screen on my original eee a little on the small side for some websites.

Although I suppose these days you've got a much wider choice of working Linux distributions for netbooks so you can always switch to a  browser that handles scaling better if it's an issue.

[bhtooefr]

I must be some sort of cyborg, because I know I'll be able to do the 170 DPI of my new display comfortably...

[IBI]

I must be some sort of cyborg, because I know I'll be able to do the 170 DPI of my new display comfortably...

Well it may be that I'm using firefox 2 and I'm too lazy to go through the tortuous process of swapping it for opera on Asus' hacked together excuse for an OS on the original eee.

How do you find http://www.trustedreviews.com/ on your 170dpi, especially the text in the articles?

[bhtooefr]

I haven't actually fired up my 170 DPI panel, but I'm on 145 DPI right now. The article text is comfortable for me in Opera 9.64 at 100% zoom on WinXP Tablet SP3, and doesn't look out of the ordinary.

[keyb_gr]

Anyone notice that the Geekhack Wikified sections (reviews, mods, etc) have real small text now?

That's been this way ever since the forums update. You may want to mention it in the update thread, just so I'm not the only one complaining...

Greetings from the "large (120dpi) system fonts + cranked up font sizes on a [strike]106.7[/strike] 86 dpi screen" camp

Actually the screen is one of those big questionmarks in terms of netbooks for me. I really have to try one out in person.

[iMav]

Running Ubuntu on my new HP mini (2140 HD) right now.  Install was uneventful...the screen is absolutely GORGEOUS!!  Amazing how much more useful it is with a "full" 768 of vertical resolution.

[watduzhkstand4]

they might be a bit too slow imo. =/

[ssb]

I hope they will upgrade their processors too; The new 2Ghz Atom Z550 is so sweet.
When netbooks with HP's resolution and solid case, mat screen, new Atoms and 2-4GB RAM will finally be available, I'll throw away my heavy laptop without second thought.

[iMav]

My primary personal system is an aluminium Macbook.  I do a lot of virtualization on it (and have been thinking of upgrading to the MBP that supports 8GB of ram)...so there is no way I'd ditch it for a netbook.  

For me, a netbook makes a great complimentary system.  It often sits on my nightstand...and is a great system to bring with me on my trips to the data center, friends/family homes, on vacation, etc.

[chimera15]

I hope they will upgrade their processors too; The new 2Ghz Atom Z550 is so sweet.
When netbooks with HP's resolution and solid case, mat screen, new Atoms and 2-4GB RAM will finally be available, I'll throw away my heavy laptop without second thought.

What are the benchmarks like on that processor?  I was surprised to learn the older atoms are only about as fast as a p3, kept me from buying it since I have toshiba tablets that are as fast and only about 1.5 the size anyway and a heck of a lot more useful.

I want to see  netbook with an active wacom digitizer, and the ability to access the net anywhere on the planet, with a processor that is as fast at least as a centrino 1.5, maybe even free with a $30 a month plan, then I might dive in. lol

[lal]

The 1,6 GHz Atoms are about as fast as a  1 GHz Core Solo, which means the Atoms are sloooow in comparison to current standard CPUs.  But they are perfectly suited for netbooks which are not much more than simple web surfing devices by design.  They're not supposed to replace standard notebooks or even desktop computers.  For the tasks they're designed for they're a really nice fit and relatively cheap.

[IBI]

What are the benchmarks like on that processor?  I was surprised to learn the older atoms are only about as fast as a p3, kept me from buying it since I have toshiba tablets that are as fast and only about 1.5 the size anyway and a heck of a lot more useful.

It must have been a top of the range P3 then, the Atom is about as fast as a 2Ghz P4 for some things

I want to see  netbook with an active wacom digitizer, and the ability to access the net anywhere on the planet, with a processor that is as fast at least as a centrino 1.5, maybe even free with a $30 a month plan, then I might dive in. lol

It sounds like you're after a normal ultraportable laptop rather than a netbook then.

[ssb]

It must have been a top of the range P3 then, the Atom is about as fast as a 2Ghz P4 for some things

Some tests run slower on Atom than on a 2Ghz P4 (Prescott) others much faster.
In real world, with exception of graphics an atom board runs at least as fast as a P4 consuming less than 4 Watts (P4/Prescott: 100W). Not bad at all!

[ssb]

I had one of those with a Ninja heatsink.  Could fry eggs on that thing.

I know what you mean; I can't tell you how many times I've burnt my fingers by accidentally touching the cpu. :lol:

[IBI]

Some tests run slower on Atom than on a 2Ghz P4 (Prescott) others much faster.
In real world, with exception of graphics an atom board runs at least as fast as a P4 consuming less than 4 Watts (P4/Prescott: 100W). Not bad at all!

A 2Ghz prescott? Wikipedia says the lowest clocked Celeron D was 2.13Ghz.

[chimera15]

This is what I saw:

http://laptoping.com/intel-atom-benchmark.html

I was surprised to read on another site I guess the newer 330 atoms are as fast as pentium m's which is impressive.  the 1.6 330 is about as fast as the 1.2 pentium m.  I use pentium m's 1.0's in two of my smaller tablet pc's and I've done everything from really big photoshop to c4d and illustrator on them, so not bad if it really has that performance.  Although I got the two tablet pc's for like half the cost of an acer aspire 1 and they're only slightly larger.  an acer c110 and a motion m1300.  They go for as low as like $100 on ebay.

http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3562&p=5

I have 1.33 Tualatin's in two of my older tablet pc's, so I really wasn't impressed.  The only advantage a "netbook" could really offer me is if it really is what it says it is and I can get on the net anywhere without having to pay a mint for access as I currently would if I accessed the net through my cell phone if I couldn't find an accessible wifi point.

[Hak Foo]

I know what you mean; I can't tell you how many times I've burnt my fingers by accidentally touching the cpu. :lol:

It seems like RAM these days gets hottest, especially if you have a decent aftermarket cooler on the CPU itself.

[zwmalone]

Everybody overstates the heat produced by a prescott...  I've got a massive 120mm copper heatsink/fan and the tips don't even get hot...  Runs at about 32c usually, at 100% load, I'm amazed if it ever gets above 40c...

It's a Zalman CNPS7700cu btw, best LGA775 cooler ever except for the Zalman 9500...

[Hak Foo]

Almost any decent cooler can be installed on LGA775 still.

I got the Zalman 9700 (the 110mm version of the 9500) which I used briefly on an E6750 and an E7200 (free giveaway), but switched to an Xigmatek S1283 with my Phenoms.  It's cheaper and works better, but apparently doesn't mount easily on 775 boards.

Zalman seems to be pricing themselves out of the market-- their stuff is expensive per unit performance, although it's still gorgeously made.

[bhtooefr]

Well, you can get a conventional laptop with a 3G card, too - I believe any ThinkPad can be ordered with a 3G card and a really good antenna installed at the factory.

And, here in the US, netbooks often don't have built-in 3G anyway (but they usually have all the provisions for it.)

[keyb_gr]

Today I had my first opportunity to play around with a few netbooks in real life. Contrary to my expectations, you could actually see something on a 1024x600 10.2" screen, though the viewing distance required would pretty much demand operation on a table or somesuch. Nothing new to me really  - back when I had something with a 14.1" XGA display (and large fonts), operation on the lap was not too back-friendly (*ouch*).

Out of the half dozen or so on display, there were 3 models with a matte display (interestingly, all the full-size notebooks had glossy ones). The eeePC 1000HE didn't appeal to me as much as I thought it would, even disregarding that the screen content was upside down (someone was attempting to be funny there I guess). But those smallish cursor keys and narrow return, nah, not really my cup of tea.
I liked the LG X110, nice keyboard and decent screen. Too bad it seems to have a smallish battery and lousy battery life, as I read on the net.
My overall fav would be the Samsung NC10 270W (white, 6-cell battery, no bluetooth and stuff) now.

Alternatively I looked at some used X series Thinkpad online (X31, X32 or such, going for about as much as a netbook or somewhat less). Probably another league in terms of build, and with trackpoint and all (not to mention better spare parts supply), but also with a dated harddrive, an old battery (and less realistic battery life than for a long-running netbook to begin with) and possibly no OS and stuff.

[bhtooefr]

I'd look towards the X60 or X60s. An X60s with an 8-cell battery will have a battery life approaching 5 hours with a fresh battery, can take any SATA HDD you can throw at it, and they all at least come with OS licenses... just make sure the one you get doesn't have Intel wireless. And, you can find off-lease ones without too much issue, cheaply.

[lal]

I'd look towards the X60 or X60s. [...] just make sure the one you get doesn't have Intel wireless.

Why that? :|

[iMav]

I really liked the X60s I had.  However, with this HP mini, I have better battery life (a good 6 hours under linux compared to 4.5-5 on the thinkpad with the 8-cell), higher resolution with a 2" smaller screen (1366x768 v. 1024x768), lighter weight, and smaller form factor.  

The only think I really miss is the trackpoint (which is not a minor thing...I LOVE trackpoints).  The keyboard is actually quite nice on the mini as far as netbook keyboards go.  Like it better than the keyboard on the AAO...and I thought that one was quite acceptable.

[nowsharing]

I just wanted to jump in and mention the netbook that I ordered yesterday. I found this thread very informative but went in a different direction myself. I decided on the Asus 900A, mainly because of its size and processor. It has an 8.9" screen 1024x600, a tiny 4GB SSD HD, intel atom, and should hold a 3-5 hour charge. Although I would have a preferred a 10" screen, my wife was excited about how small the 9" Asuses were--they're like a medium sized book, and weigh 1kg. I bought a refurb unit for $155 shipped at mwave.com.

I'm going to follow the prices of parts, and as they become cheaper this netbook will become more upgradable. It will be delivered to me at the end of June, along with a 2GB ram upgrade. The best part is that the wife will be switching to using linux on it, which will make our complete transition away from windows easier; right now I dual boot Vista and Linux Mint to keep things safe at home.

[cchan]

Mmm, X60. I love mine - I got it for $449 refurb and threw a $28 2GB RAM upgrade and $20 Atheros wireless card in it. A bit more than a netbook, but netbooks can't give me decent performance virtualising Debian under XP.

[IBI]

I just wanted to jump in and mention the netbook that I ordered yesterday. I found this thread very informative but went in a different direction myself. I decided on the Asus 900A, mainly because of its size and processor.

If the 901 is availible then I'd cancel go for that - it's a very similar system but with a bigger battery.

[nowsharing]

If the 901 is availible then I'd cancel go for that - it's a very similar system but with a bigger battery.

I looked into the 901, but the cheapest I could find it was $125 more than the 900a.

[bhtooefr]

Why that? :|

The Intel wireless sucks, the power management doesn't play nicely with the ThinkPad software (and it's easy to get it stuck in low-power mode where it can't connect well,) and driver support is poor.

[lal]

I see.  Thanks for the explanation, bhtooefr.  I don't run Windows on my X60 wit Intel 3945blasomething WLAN, and it seems for Linux-based OSs it's the other way around.  Intel chips are generally supported quite well because of Intels own efforts.  And throughput-wise Intel WLAN is rather fast with most access points, too.  Just wanted to add that

[roaduck]

I've got two friends, each with a different Acer Aspire One.

My first pal has the  A110-AGp which only cost him £130. It is the Linpus Lite Linux version with 8.9" screen, 16 GB SSD and 1GB RAM and it boots really quickly - about fifteen seconds and can get on wireless internet (using in a hotspot or by piggybacking on an unsecure wireless router) in less than a minute ).

 You can add storage with a SD card I think.With 3 usb connections - you can add a better keyboard and perhaps an external DVD-RW and an external usb HDD.It's very portable and light - to me the the built-in keyboard is okay; it doesn't feel too mushy.

My other mate has the D150-1Bw with 10.1" screen - 1 GB Ram - 160 GB HDD with Windows XP Home SP3 preinstalled which can be had for less than £220 but he has his on contract with three.com (3G wireless internet) and to get that he plugs a little white USB dongle into it.

It can also sniff out wireless hotspots and unsecured wireless routers in no time although it takes longer to boot than the Linux model version.

You can get bigger batteries for them both and I've tried them briefly.Only limiting thing for me is the small screens and tiny in-built speakers that aren't as loud as my mobile phone - A 3G Samsung touchphone.

I  wouldn't buy one though - too small - I like lapdogs with big screens - 19" at least because I've had big monitors (21 inch plus) for over ten years and I couldn't go back to anything smaller.
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