Author Topic: Alps Appreciation Thread  (Read 1877176 times)

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Offline Norman_the_Owl

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3750 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 16:11:23 »
I actually got the granite to put it's cap on my dirty omnikey 101. Just need to modify it to accept the stepped caps lock. And get a cable for it. And new switches because the white alps in it are really crusty. And remove the soldered screws.

The priority at this point is finding 101 new (clean) switches. Laugh all you want, but i can't take apart 101 switches individually and clean them

Offline mike52787

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3751 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 16:13:24 »
I can sell you 101 white alps in very good, clean condition, I actually pulled them from my personal omnikey when I swapped them for skcm creams.

Offline Wingpad

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3752 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 16:34:43 »
That seller had two beige and two granite ones for $60 too, all used. I was trying to get one of each for a bit cheaper, but then some lucky b'stard swooped in and took the whole lot  >:D ;D
I was really considering buying one of the beige ones and almost did several times. Then, I really thought about it and asked myself "what would I do with it?" and decided I'm better off waiting for an Omnikey. I am already working on a third/fourth (depending on how you count) project with an AT101[W] board, I don't need another :p
Dude, I have so many switches and cap sets I'm not even using/don't have enough boards to use, and this IS talking about Alps. I'm not sure what I'm going to do to utilize them.

Even with my hot swap builds, it's a little impractical. I'm also considering what to do with my heaping helping of Xerox boards. I like them, they're like family to me. Family I don't want to separate.

However... Having so many stowed away keyboards is kinda cray. I have to get a converter made for these, dammit.
Yeah, I had a lot of stuff sitting around as well... probably not as much as you but I'm cutting back and trying to sell stuff nevertheless. I still have three or four boards I can't decide what to do with, namely my NeXT with SKCM Creams and Chicony with SMK 'Monterey Blues.' I like them but I don't think I'm ever going to use them. Dunno... I'll probably just get rid of everything besides my 60%'s, Orange-modded AT101W, Model M and my project boards (F107, MFSSK, Brown Alps 104-Key Build, Omnikey, Zealiostotles/MX Dark Blue). I feel like I'm approaching my endgame collection but give it a few months and I'll probably be singing a different song :p

Family, eh? Well if you ever decide to disown one keep me in mind, haha. What's stopping you from finding a converter, is there a lack of information on protocol they use or something? Now that I have access to an electronics debugging lab (oscilloscopes, electron microscopes, etc) again it's something I could probably take on; I've been looking for an excuse to break out my embedded programming skills again :cool:

EDIT: Speaking of my Orange-modded AT101W, I decided to take it into the office earlier today. It fits right in with the period-correct peripherals (with the exception of the mouse):

Sorry for the potato pic.
« Last Edit: Thu, 29 September 2016, 13:26:20 by Wingpad »
Current Drivers: Black Dell AT101W (Orange Alps, AT101 Caps) | IBM Model M (1994, Industrialized)
Other Boards: Infinity-esque 60% (Gateron Clears & Caps) | AEK 60% (Alps64 PCB, Blue Alps)

Offline Hypersphere

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  • Location: USA
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3753 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 16:56:43 »
@wingpad: When you say "orange-modded" Dell AT101W, what did you do? Did you open up the black Alps on the Dell, pull out the slider, spring, and leaf, and replace these parts with the slider, spring, and leaf from Orange Alps? Did you keep the leaf from the Orange as a tactile leaf, or did you clip the prongs to make it a click leaf? Did you lube the slider rails and the leaf-side of the slider? If so, what lube did you use? Thanks!




Offline Wingpad

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3754 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 17:02:38 »
@wingpad: When you say "orange-modded" Dell AT101W, what did you do? Did you open up the black Alps on the Dell, pull out the slider, spring, and leaf, and replace these parts with the slider, spring, and leaf from Orange Alps? Did you keep the leaf from the Orange as a tactile leaf, or did you clip the prongs to make it a click leaf? Did you lube the slider rails and the leaf-side of the slider? If so, what lube did you use? Thanks!
Well I did a complete swap, de-soldered all of the Blacks and soldered in Oranges from an AEK. While the difference in keyfeel isn't particularly noticeable, I prefer long switch plates on principal. I kept the Oranges as tactile switches, I wanted a quieter keyboard for the office and so far it's working out well (not a fan of dampened switches). I didn't re-lube the switches but if I was going to, I would probably use the DuPont Teflon Silicone Lubricant I have experimented with in the past; when used on clean switches it does seem to work well.
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 September 2016, 17:18:54 by Wingpad »
Current Drivers: Black Dell AT101W (Orange Alps, AT101 Caps) | IBM Model M (1994, Industrialized)
Other Boards: Infinity-esque 60% (Gateron Clears & Caps) | AEK 60% (Alps64 PCB, Blue Alps)

Offline klennkellon

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3755 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 17:10:18 »
Am I not removing the solder properly or is it just really diffiult to remove Matias from the V80's plate? I have no issues with MX switches :/

Offline Wingpad

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3756 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 17:14:16 »
Am I not removing the solder properly or is it just really diffiult to remove Matias from the V80's plate? I have no issues with MX switches :/
How are you trying to remove them? You have to remove all the switches from an Alps plate and push them up from the bottom, you can't remove them incrementally like an MX switch.
Current Drivers: Black Dell AT101W (Orange Alps, AT101 Caps) | IBM Model M (1994, Industrialized)
Other Boards: Infinity-esque 60% (Gateron Clears & Caps) | AEK 60% (Alps64 PCB, Blue Alps)

Offline Mattr567

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3757 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 18:24:50 »
Am I not removing the solder properly or is it just really diffiult to remove Matias from the V80's plate? I have no issues with MX switches :/
Ooh, be careful with this :eek: I also find the solder KBP uses is quite difficult to remove as well with my V60. I didn't know better and ripped the switches out along with through holes. See pic. Take it slowly and don't force them, or else you end up with this.
Wang 725-3770 SKCM Brown, 1995
Zenith 163-73 - SKCM Blue, 1990
KBP V60 MTS - SKCM Amber w/ Canon HiPros
IBM P77, SKCC Green, 1984
IBM P70 - Alps Plate Spring, 1989
Compaq MX 11800, MX Black, 1997

Offline mike52787

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3758 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 18:27:24 »
Am I not removing the solder properly or is it just really diffiult to remove Matias from the V80's plate? I have no issues with MX switches :/
Ooh, be careful with this :eek: I also find the solder KBP uses is quite difficult to remove as well with my V60. I didn't know better and ripped the switches out along with through holes. See pic. Take it slowly and don't force them, or else you end up with this.
Show Image

Yeah. Ruined my v60 pcb by ripping out about 10 through holes. Lead free solder ****ing sucks man

Offline Mattr567

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3759 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 19:39:54 »
Am I not removing the solder properly or is it just really diffiult to remove Matias from the V80's plate? I have no issues with MX switches :/
Ooh, be careful with this :eek: I also find the solder KBP uses is quite difficult to remove as well with my V60. I didn't know better and ripped the switches out along with through holes. See pic. Take it slowly and don't force them, or else you end up with this.
Show Image

Yeah. Ruined my v60 pcb by ripping out about 10 through holes. Lead free solder ****ing sucks man
Yea....what did you end up doing? Buying another whole board?
I did make it semi functional, no win keys or backlight!

At least it's sitting pretty right now...
Wang 725-3770 SKCM Brown, 1995
Zenith 163-73 - SKCM Blue, 1990
KBP V60 MTS - SKCM Amber w/ Canon HiPros
IBM P77, SKCC Green, 1984
IBM P70 - Alps Plate Spring, 1989
Compaq MX 11800, MX Black, 1997

Offline mike52787

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3760 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 19:41:05 »
Am I not removing the solder properly or is it just really diffiult to remove Matias from the V80's plate? I have no issues with MX switches :/
Ooh, be careful with this :eek: I also find the solder KBP uses is quite difficult to remove as well with my V60. I didn't know better and ripped the switches out along with through holes. See pic. Take it slowly and don't force them, or else you end up with this.
Show Image

Yeah. Ruined my v60 pcb by ripping out about 10 through holes. Lead free solder ****ing sucks man
Yea....what did you end up doing? Buying another whole board?
I did make it semi functional, no win keys or backlight!
Show Image

At least it's sitting pretty right now...
Show Image

Havent touched it. sitting in a box currently. will try to grt it working sometime I guess

Offline klennkellon

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3761 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 19:52:28 »
Haha pretty sure I ruined it. Oh well.

Offline Mattr567

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3762 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 19:56:57 »
Havent touched it. sitting in a box currently. will try to grt it working sometime I guess

How badly is it damaged? If its just a couple of through holes on the home rows or whatever I can work with that. My pcb is messed up a lot more on the inside. Ruined LED holes, resistor pads and more. I can fix a couple switch through holes with some wire like I did on mine (on a lesser scale) and can then de solder the LED holes you never needed to touch, add some resistors and make Alps backlight without spending a boatload like E3E.

I've stayed away from finishing the project for a while since I would have to buy a whole new keyboard. If I could buy a slightly less ruined pcb that would awesome.
Haha pretty sure I ruined it. Oh well.
Pics?
Wang 725-3770 SKCM Brown, 1995
Zenith 163-73 - SKCM Blue, 1990
KBP V60 MTS - SKCM Amber w/ Canon HiPros
IBM P77, SKCC Green, 1984
IBM P70 - Alps Plate Spring, 1989
Compaq MX 11800, MX Black, 1997

Offline klennkellon

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3763 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 20:07:31 »
When I get home I can but I had to tear the switch out with some force so I'm just assuming its broke.

Offline E3E

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3764 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 20:16:51 »
When I get home I can but I had to tear the switch out with some force so I'm just assuming its broke.

Yeeeah, tripped the via right out. It's something that can wreck a keyboard. If you find the proper trances, you can reconnect the pins properly, but it might be an arduous task. I've heard the V60 PCB is multilayered. Is it just dual-sided or multi? Multi would be bad.

Offline mike52787

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3765 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 20:17:30 »
When I get home I can but I had to tear the switch out with some force so I'm just assuming its broke.

Yeeeah, tripped the via right out. It's something that can wreck a keyboard. If you find the proper trances, you can reconnect the pins properly, but it might be an arduous task. I've heard the V60 PCB is multilayered. Is it just dual-sided or multi? Multi would be bad.
Dual sided from what I can see.

Offline Mattr567

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3766 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 20:40:40 »
Yea, it can be arduous task for sure. It took a couple hours to wire mine up. I would solder a wire to the bad pin and touch it to other pins until I found the right outputed character.

Really depends how bad it is.
Wang 725-3770 SKCM Brown, 1995
Zenith 163-73 - SKCM Blue, 1990
KBP V60 MTS - SKCM Amber w/ Canon HiPros
IBM P77, SKCC Green, 1984
IBM P70 - Alps Plate Spring, 1989
Compaq MX 11800, MX Black, 1997

Offline mike52787

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3767 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 21:45:18 »
Its alot worse than I remembered it. I might just wait for hasu to drop the next round of alps64s. I should atleast try to fix it though.

Offline Mattr567

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3768 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 22:27:13 »
Its alot worse than I remembered it. I might just wait for hasu to drop the next round of alps64s. I should atleast try to fix it though.
Show Image

Wait, the green ones are the only ones that work? Jesus thats actually a lot worse than mine lol.

Thats's funny, even my IBM unpacking slip mentions them in the box, does yours? I've seen a video of the beeper, super loud :p Thank god there's a volume knob. Excited to use mine.

I double checked my slip....nope. It just shows the cap puller and the extra feet for the bottom as the stuff that comes besides the keyboard. Guess there is a difference between the Japanese and Chinese versions, hah!

How did you go about converting your board with your own layout? Have a layout in mind myself, similar to Chryos's with a few tweaks.

alps102key.c is the keymap it uses, there's a visual diagram commented out in that file that looks like the Pingmaster's layout, just follow that as reference and edit the matrix below it changing the keys as you see fit...should be pretty straight forward. Here's what mine looks like:

More
Code: [Select]
KEYMAP_ALPS102(
    ESC, 1,   2,   3,   4,   5,   6,   7,   8,   9,   0,   MINS,EQL, BSPC,BSPC,BSPC,    INS,HOME,PGUP,      NLCK,  PSLS,  PAST,  PMNS,  \
    TAB, Q,   W,   E,   R,   T,   Y,   U,   I,   O,   P,   LBRC,RBRC,BSPC,     NO,      DEL, END, PGDN,     7,  8,  9,  PPLS,  \
    CAPS,A,   S,   D,   F,   G,   H,   J,   K,   L,   SCLN,QUOT,GRV, ENT,      NO,      NO, NO, NO,         4,  5, 6, PPLS, \
    LSFT,Z,   X,   C,   V,   B,   N,   M,   COMM,DOT, SLSH,RSFT,RSFT,          NO,      NO,  UP,  NO,       1, 2, 3, PENT, \
    LCTL, LGUI,LALT,          SPC,                     RALT,RGUI,              FN0,     LEFT,DOWN,RGHT,     0, 0, DOT, PENT  \
    ),
That layout is very similar to what I would want but with a few changes like using those extra key's to the right of enter as cut, copy and paste etc.

Guess there is a difference hah. Also NEVER use the keycap puller. It will scratch your clear tops.
Mine for reference:

Wang 725-3770 SKCM Brown, 1995
Zenith 163-73 - SKCM Blue, 1990
KBP V60 MTS - SKCM Amber w/ Canon HiPros
IBM P77, SKCC Green, 1984
IBM P70 - Alps Plate Spring, 1989
Compaq MX 11800, MX Black, 1997

Offline klennkellon

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3769 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 02:58:29 »
Good news, my V80 is still working fine. I must have gotten lucky.

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3770 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 07:49:33 »
@Mattr567: What are the caps and switches on your "sitting pretty" board?

Offline mike52787

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3771 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 09:13:34 »
@Mattr567: What are the caps and switches on your "sitting pretty" board?
SKCL greens with japanese IBM multistation sphericals. Im so jelly

Offline E3E

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3772 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 13:25:09 »
@Mattr567: What are the caps and switches on your "sitting pretty" board?
SKCL greens with japanese IBM multistation sphericals. Im so jelly

I just retrobrighted my set.

I really should invest in an ultrasonic cleaner though.



Also, Mattr, I noticed you have the Chinese set while I have the Japanese one. Neat.  :)

Offline mike52787

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3773 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 13:55:03 »

It is finally done. The closest to endgame I think Ill ever get honestly. Ill also be nominating myself for KOTM, so if you like it, feel free to +1 :)) :D

Offline E3E

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3774 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 14:23:20 »
Well, in the absence of denture tabs or alkaseltzer OR an ultrasonic cleaner, I found some soda in the fridge works amazingly well for cleaning key caps. :P

Offline Hypersphere

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3775 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 14:36:01 »
I am very glad that I purchased an ultrasonic cleaner. It does a fantastic job on keycaps -- better cleaning in far less time than doing it manually. I got the iSonic P4820-WPB for $88.99 on Amazon Prime. Well worth the price.

Regarding the IBM Multistation -- thanks for the tip. I will be on the lookout for these to come up on eBay or in the forums.

Where (in addition to a TRS-80 keyboard) can I get caps that will fit the "Pingmaster"? If possible, I would like to populate the relegendable keys with printed keys in the correct profile.


« Last Edit: Thu, 29 September 2016, 14:38:52 by Hypersphere »

Offline E3E

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3776 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 14:48:53 »
I am very glad that I purchased an ultrasonic cleaner. It does a fantastic job on keycaps -- better cleaning in far less time than doing it manually. I got the iSonic P4820-WPB for $88.99 on Amazon Prime. Well worth the price.

I'll keep this model number in mind and probably pick one up ASAP.

:D

By the way, keep the model number IBM 5556 for the Multistation keyboards. Also look out for IBM 5550, as that's the series of systems they were used on.

As for SKCC caps? I know there's a typewriter with an ANSI set, but the right mods are slightly off on the Pingmaster.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/231499624453?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Near perfect set of ANSI caps for any SKCC build/board that can support it. Would be a shame to dismantle a working typewriter for them though.

Offline Norman_the_Owl

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3777 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 18:14:11 »
After all the 5140s and other mobile computers we've recycled over keycaps, you're getting torn up over a typewriter? :P

Offline Dokyun

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3778 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 18:23:29 »
Show Image

It is finally done. The closest to endgame I think Ill ever get honestly. Ill also be nominating myself for KOTM, so if you like it, feel free to +1 :)) :D

Desire to know more about case painting technique intensifies.


Offline E3E

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3779 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 18:34:03 »
After all the 5140s and other mobile computers we've recycled over keycaps, you're getting torn up over a typewriter? :P

* E3E ponders...

Okay, you have a good point. They're more endearing to me for some reason, but I have to admit, that thing is pretty much perfect for an ANSI 60% SKCC project, which honestly... Would be SICK.

Offline mike52787

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3780 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 18:37:56 »
Show Image

It is finally done. The closest to endgame I think Ill ever get honestly. Ill also be nominating myself for KOTM, so if you like it, feel free to +1 :)) :D

Desire to know more about case painting technique intensifies.
rattle can :))

Offline Wingpad

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3781 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 19:03:14 »
Show Image

Also, Mattr, I noticed you have the Chinese set while I have the Japanese one. Neat.  :)
Oooh, those are quite sharp.

That thing is pretty much perfect for an ANSI 60% SKCC project, which honestly... Would be SICK.
Has anyone ever made a custom SKCC board before? I don't want to kill a Pingmaster per say... but they're so cheap so it is kind of the ideal time to jump in and tear one apart for keyboard science.

Show Image

It is finally done. The closest to endgame I think Ill ever get honestly. Ill also be nominating myself for KOTM, so if you like it, feel free to +1 :)) :D
I'll definitely +1 you if I remember to, good luck!
Current Drivers: Black Dell AT101W (Orange Alps, AT101 Caps) | IBM Model M (1994, Industrialized)
Other Boards: Infinity-esque 60% (Gateron Clears & Caps) | AEK 60% (Alps64 PCB, Blue Alps)

Offline mike52787

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3782 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 19:18:33 »
kill a Pingmaster
For gods sake please dont kill one of the NIB ones! Find a dirty one in ****ty condition to kill. NIB boards from that era are so rare, it makes me wonder why there are so many pingmasters.

Offline Wingpad

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3783 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 19:24:08 »
kill a Pingmaster
For gods sake please dont kill one of the NIB ones! Find a dirty one in ****ty condition to kill. NIB boards from that era are so rare, it makes me wonder why there are so many pingmasters.
I have a hard time valuing them as much as you do, especially considering how readily available they are. New switches for a new project is just too appealing of an idea :p
Current Drivers: Black Dell AT101W (Orange Alps, AT101 Caps) | IBM Model M (1994, Industrialized)
Other Boards: Infinity-esque 60% (Gateron Clears & Caps) | AEK 60% (Alps64 PCB, Blue Alps)

Offline mike52787

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3784 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 19:27:18 »
kill a Pingmaster
For gods sake please dont kill one of the NIB ones! Find a dirty one in ****ty condition to kill. NIB boards from that era are so rare, it makes me wonder why there are so many pingmasters.
I have a hard time valuing them as much as you do, especially considering how readily available they are. New switches for a new project is just too appealing of an idea :p
I have a hunch that once they are gone, theyre gone. How many used pingmasters have you seen? I think that once the lots on ebay are depleted, the value will increase.

Offline Mattr567

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3785 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 19:35:09 »
@Mattr567: What are the caps and switches on your "sitting pretty" board?
SKCL greens with japanese IBM multistation sphericals. Im so jelly

I just retrobrighted my set.

I really should invest in an ultrasonic cleaner though.

Show Image


Also, Mattr, I noticed you have the Chinese set while I have the Japanese one. Neat.  :)
That is super neat! The retrobrighted caps look good. I should do mine sometime. I like that the Chinese ones have blue alpha's.
I am very glad that I purchased an ultrasonic cleaner. It does a fantastic job on keycaps -- better cleaning in far less time than doing it manually. I got the iSonic P4820-WPB for $88.99 on Amazon Prime. Well worth the price.

I'll keep this model number in mind and probably pick one up ASAP.

:D

By the way, keep the model number IBM 5556 for the Multistation keyboards. Also look out for IBM 5550, as that's the series of systems they were used on.

As for SKCC caps? I know there's a typewriter with an ANSI set, but the right mods are slightly off on the Pingmaster.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/231499624453?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Near perfect set of ANSI caps for any SKCC build/board that can support it. Would be a shame to dismantle a working typewriter for them though.
Yea the caps are really cool. Those boards almost never come up on ebay. Taobao is where its at for that kind of stuff. Also E3E if you get that ultra cleaner and have good results I think it would be cool to ship you all my Taobao switches and you can clean them for me. I would pay for everything.

Also don't kill a Pingmaster! Thats a crime :'(

Here is how my Taobao stuff came.

Wang 725-3770 SKCM Brown, 1995
Zenith 163-73 - SKCM Blue, 1990
KBP V60 MTS - SKCM Amber w/ Canon HiPros
IBM P77, SKCC Green, 1984
IBM P70 - Alps Plate Spring, 1989
Compaq MX 11800, MX Black, 1997

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3786 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 20:19:26 »

Here is how my Taobao stuff came.


Any clue as to what that straight-ANSI blue Alps one was in its real life?
The difference in characterization of crime and who commits it skews what criminality looks like demographically. "What we're seeing so far is very similar to the process that we see with Islamic violent Jihad radicalization," said former FBI Assistant Director Frank Figliuzzi, "This wanting to belong to a cause greater than yourself, wanting to get affirmation from a group who may not even know who you are or ever met you. And then feeling like you're part of this deployment, this cause. You heard him say on the clip 'It's my job to protect this.'
No, it's not your job. But you think it is. And video last night shows him walking around roaming around with the assault rifle not really doing much of protecting anything." Figliuzzi made it clear that calling these characters "troubled" is a misnomer. "I would assert," Figliuzzi continued. "that it's time we stopped using the word ‘troubled’ with regard to white young people who act out like this and start thinking about the radicalized term that we used when people of color or people of Islamic faith act out like this. This is a radicalization process that's happening. It happened with the El Paso shooter in Texas. We kept hearing he was troubled. No, he was radicalized. And it's happening online."

Offline E3E

  • Posts: 2827
  • Alps Evangelist
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3787 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 20:37:46 »

Here is how my Taobao stuff came.


Any clue as to what that straight-ANSI blue Alps one was in its real life?

Pretty sure it was a Model M clone.

Also E3E if you get that ultra cleaner and have good results I think it would be cool to ship you all my Taobao switches and you can clean them for me. I would pay for everything.

Sure thing, I'd be happy to help. :)

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3788 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 20:53:41 »

Pretty sure it was a Model M clone.


It would be awesome if that meant that it could be re-habbed and stuck in a Model M case!
The difference in characterization of crime and who commits it skews what criminality looks like demographically. "What we're seeing so far is very similar to the process that we see with Islamic violent Jihad radicalization," said former FBI Assistant Director Frank Figliuzzi, "This wanting to belong to a cause greater than yourself, wanting to get affirmation from a group who may not even know who you are or ever met you. And then feeling like you're part of this deployment, this cause. You heard him say on the clip 'It's my job to protect this.'
No, it's not your job. But you think it is. And video last night shows him walking around roaming around with the assault rifle not really doing much of protecting anything." Figliuzzi made it clear that calling these characters "troubled" is a misnomer. "I would assert," Figliuzzi continued. "that it's time we stopped using the word ‘troubled’ with regard to white young people who act out like this and start thinking about the radicalized term that we used when people of color or people of Islamic faith act out like this. This is a radicalization process that's happening. It happened with the El Paso shooter in Texas. We kept hearing he was troubled. No, he was radicalized. And it's happening online."

Offline E3E

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3789 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 21:01:21 »

Pretty sure it was a Model M clone.


It would be awesome if that meant that it could be re-habbed and stuck in a Model M case!

That would be pretty awesome. Some -mostly- intact Model M clones go through TaoBao every so often complete with their pretty well-done replica cases. The keycaps are pretty interesting since they're modeled after the M's curved plate while having a flat plate, and so some have weird "stilts" to increase their height, similar to the AEK's F row key caps.

Offline Mattr567

  • Posts: 840
  • Location: SoCal
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3790 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 23:41:11 »
Yea those Model M clone caps are weird, wish they were thicker.

So for the ultrasonic cleaner I would send about 130 SKCL Greens, 120 SKCM Blues, those Model M clone caps and those Futaba caps. Nice opportunity. All the switches are already dissembled. I'll send a complete SKCL Green so you can see for yourself how rough it is even with my efforts and a cleaned and lubed SKCM Blue to my best ability for the same reason. Also to get a baseline. The Blue's click well but are rough in general, can't pinpoint it. The tops are the clear issue for the Greens. Don't need to clean the Green sliders since that would only be hurting them since there perfect and would only remove lube. The Blue's need the full treatment.

I would put all of them back together myself since that really isn't your problem. I would think it would be a good idea to do a few tests after though to make sure it worked etc.
Wang 725-3770 SKCM Brown, 1995
Zenith 163-73 - SKCM Blue, 1990
KBP V60 MTS - SKCM Amber w/ Canon HiPros
IBM P77, SKCC Green, 1984
IBM P70 - Alps Plate Spring, 1989
Compaq MX 11800, MX Black, 1997

Offline E3E

  • Posts: 2827
  • Alps Evangelist
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3791 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 23:51:06 »
Yea those Model M clone caps are weird, wish they were thicker.

So for the ultrasonic cleaner I would send about 130 SKCL Greens, 120 SKCM Blues, those Model M clone caps and those Futaba caps. Nice opportunity. All the switches are already dissembled. I'll send a complete SKCL Green so you can see for yourself how rough it is even with my efforts and a cleaned and lubed SKCM Blue to my best ability for the same reason. Also to get a baseline. The Blue's click well but are rough in general, can't pinpoint it. The tops are the clear issue for the Greens. Don't need to clean the Green sliders since that would only be hurting them since there perfect and would only remove lube. The Blue's need the full treatment.

I would put all of them back together myself since that really isn't your problem. I would think it would be a good idea to do a few tests after though to make sure it worked etc.

In my opinion, when the tops are shot, there's not much you can do to help them. Even with my SKCM Green Xerox 6085, cleaning and lubing only helped a bit. It took replacing the tops entirely with clean tops to fix them. Not sure what was causing the binding there as the switches were clean and the board had no shine.
 
An ultrasonic cleaner might do the trick though. We'll have to see!

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3792 on: Fri, 30 September 2016, 08:04:56 »

when the tops are shot, there's not much you can do to help them.


yep.

wear and dirt are not the same, and while dirt can easily be cleaned, wear is terminal
The difference in characterization of crime and who commits it skews what criminality looks like demographically. "What we're seeing so far is very similar to the process that we see with Islamic violent Jihad radicalization," said former FBI Assistant Director Frank Figliuzzi, "This wanting to belong to a cause greater than yourself, wanting to get affirmation from a group who may not even know who you are or ever met you. And then feeling like you're part of this deployment, this cause. You heard him say on the clip 'It's my job to protect this.'
No, it's not your job. But you think it is. And video last night shows him walking around roaming around with the assault rifle not really doing much of protecting anything." Figliuzzi made it clear that calling these characters "troubled" is a misnomer. "I would assert," Figliuzzi continued. "that it's time we stopped using the word ‘troubled’ with regard to white young people who act out like this and start thinking about the radicalized term that we used when people of color or people of Islamic faith act out like this. This is a radicalization process that's happening. It happened with the El Paso shooter in Texas. We kept hearing he was troubled. No, he was radicalized. And it's happening online."

Offline zslane

  • Posts: 2248
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3793 on: Fri, 30 September 2016, 15:50:17 »
So does any company out there make keyboards using Matias tactile Alps clones?

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3794 on: Fri, 30 September 2016, 15:54:29 »
Well, Matias makes several models of keyboards using its Click, Quiet Click, and Quiet Linear switches.

KBP also makes its 60% and 80% models with all three types of Matias switches and also with Fuhua clones.


Offline zslane

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  • Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3795 on: Fri, 30 September 2016, 16:15:07 »
Clarification of terminology request: is "Quiet Click" the name for their tactile (non-clicky) switch? And how does it differ from the "Quiet Pro" switch?

Offline mike52787

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3796 on: Fri, 30 September 2016, 16:31:17 »
Clarification of terminology request: is "Quiet Click" the name for their tactile (non-clicky) switch? And how does it differ from the "Quiet Pro" switch?
Quiet clicks are dampened tactile switches, think SKCM Ivory dampened like is in the AEKII except not quite as good.

Offline zslane

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  • Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3797 on: Fri, 30 September 2016, 16:47:31 »
Quiet clicks are dampened tactile switches, think SKCM Ivory dampened like is in the AEKII except not quite as good.

Ok, that is a useful comparison. Thanks!

The only Alps-based keyboard I've ever used (to my knowledge) was an AEKII back when I had a Mac IIci. I loved that keyboard, though to be honest I don't remember what it felt like to type on. It's been too many years.

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3798 on: Fri, 30 September 2016, 17:07:39 »
The Matias nomenclature is puzzling and misleading. They have a keyboard called the "Tactile Pro". The switches in this keyboard are now called "Matias Click" switches. They are indeed tactile and clicky.

They also have a keyboard called the "Quiet Pro". It has "Quiet Click" switches. They are damped and have a tactile leaf, not a click leaf. They are quiet and they are tactile, but they do not click.

Their Click switches are rather loud, but I prefer them to their Quiet switches, which have a mushy feel when bottoming out.

However, I much prefer either of these switches over any Cherry mx or Cherry mx clone. I like them almost as much as white Alps, and they have the advantage of being available in new keyboards and as new loose switches for installing in custom keyboards.

Recently, I have put the slider and leaf from a Matias Quiet switch into the Spacebar switch on keyboards with Alps clicky switches -- this works quite nicely to quiet the Spacebar. However, on the other keys, I prefer clicky switches.

Offline zslane

  • Posts: 2248
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #3799 on: Fri, 30 September 2016, 17:28:29 »
The general lack of replacement keycap sets is disappointing. Especially for someone like me who prefers spherical keycaps since I get the distinct impression that Alps fans are not DSA fans, and so the chances of pulling off a successful Alps DSA group buy feels extremely low.