Author Topic: Alps Appreciation Thread  (Read 1850403 times)

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Offline Applet

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  • Location: Sweden
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6450 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 04:54:03 »
What keycaps and case are you planning to use?

Offline bsdice

  • Posts: 2
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6451 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 10:06:21 »
I recently joined the my-keyboard-still-has-PS/2-crowd. Used to type on an MX Board 3.0 (MX Blue) for a couple of years, but keyboard died six weeks ago. Couldn't fix it (resolder the USB connector didn't help), maybe I can rewire it by hand with diodes using a controller board.

So got a totally new in box still in foil Dell AT102DW from 1998 in the mail today, SKCM Black Alps of course, very stiff. I know I could linearize the switches but I won't. Will rework it to SKCM Orange and SKCL Green for modifiers. Chose that particular keyboard because Alps, plastic case for sound, ISO DE layout, Windows keys (I need some extra modifier for Linux i3 desktop). Easy to get started, too, looked into fully custom but most Alps parts especially keycaps are sold out. Would need some months of patience for mechmarket to turn up all required parts and even then I'd probably have to write a bot because I've seen stuff in demand gone within 10 minutes.

Did use a PC-AT Chicony ISO DE back in 1991 with my first computer. Need to look for it in parents' house, might be mechanical even.

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6452 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 10:31:40 »

SKCM Black Alps of course, very stiff.


You should use them a bit to break them in.
"I never understood wind. I know windmills very much, I have studied it better than anybody. I know it is very expensive. They are made in China and Germany mostly, very few made here, almost none, but they are manufactured, tremendous — if you are into this — tremendous fumes and gases are spewing into the atmosphere. You know we have a world, right? So the world is tiny compared to the universe. So tremendous, tremendous amount of fumes and everything. You talk about the carbon footprint, fumes are spewing into the air, right spewing, whether it is China or Germany, is going into the air.
A windmill will kill many bald eagles. After a certain number, they make you turn the windmill off, that is true. By the way, they make you turn it off. And yet, if you killed one, they put you in jail. That is OK. But why is it OK for windmills to destroy the bird population?"
- Donald Trump - Turning Point USA speech – 2019-12-22

Offline gnho

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  • Location: ATX/US
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6453 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 11:19:37 »
What keycaps and case are you planning to use?

I have some nexus sliders so there are quite a few options. Case wise, just an artisan 60% wooden case.

Offline mode

  • Posts: 264
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6454 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 11:55:11 »
What keycaps and case are you planning to use?

I have some nexus sliders so there are quite a few options. Case wise, just an artisan 60% wooden case.

Prepare to put in a bunch of work to make those sliders work well, ideally by modifying original alps housings. The nexus housings bind quite badly and change the feeling quite a bit.

I don't regret my nexus build, it's the only way I'd ever get SA Dasher keycaps on a board I'd actually daily drive, but there certainly are compromises to them and they'll never be quite as nice as unmodified alps.

Offline gnho

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6455 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 12:00:48 »

Prepare to put in a bunch of work to make those sliders work well, ideally by modifying original alps housings. The nexus housings bind quite badly and change the feeling quite a bit.

I don't regret my nexus build, it's the only way I'd ever get SA Dasher keycaps on a board I'd actually daily drive, but there certainly are compromises to them and they'll never be quite as nice as unmodified alps.

I am already using them on blue alps + EPBT 9009. They work surprisingly well without changing the housing. Binding does occur for MT3 caps. Did you change the housing?

In any case, Alps+Nexus sliders is still way superior than MX switches to me... These days the only MX switches I use are the linear ones and box pink.



Offline gnho

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6456 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 14:51:32 »
Just heard that an-c v2 will no longer support ALPS...... WHY?????

Offline toniwonkanobi

  • Posts: 41
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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6457 on: Sun, 28 June 2020, 23:57:06 »
Anyone happen to have a `.dxf` file for a 60% Pok3r-style plate with layout like the Dell AT101? The open source 60% thread here has one but the bottom of the space bar stabilizer clip area is so thin, LaserBoost couldn’t produce it (it was missing the little bit of metal which helps secure the stabilizer clips).
« Last Edit: Mon, 29 June 2020, 08:10:39 by toniwonkanobi »

Offline mode

  • Posts: 264
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6458 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 00:34:18 »
Anyone happen to have a dxf file for a 60% Pok3r-style plate like for the Dell AT101? The open source 60% thread here has one but the bottom of the space bar stabilizer clip area is so thin, LaserBoost couldn’t produce it (it was missing the little bit of metal which helps secure the stabilizer clips).

at101 wkl or at101w? are you planning on using original alps pbt caps?

I can probably make one pretty quick. just gotta get a footprint for the stab pole hole things.
« Last Edit: Mon, 29 June 2020, 00:44:34 by mode »

Offline toniwonkanobi

  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6459 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 08:16:09 »
Anyone happen to have a dxf file for a 60% Pok3r-style plate like for the Dell AT101? The open source 60% thread here has one but the bottom of the space bar stabilizer clip area is so thin, LaserBoost couldn’t produce it (it was missing the little bit of metal which helps secure the stabilizer clips).

at101 wkl or at101w? are you planning on using original alps pbt caps?

I can probably make one pretty quick. just gotta get a footprint for the stab pole hole things.

Sorry for any confusion: I need a 60% Pok3r-style Alps plate with SGI Granite layout destined for my Mekanisk Klippe T, which is basically a standard 60% Pok3r-style case. If you're willing to help (YAASSS!), you could probably just start with the AT101 `.dxf` file from the open source thread (here), and just possibly move the space bar stabilizer clip cutouts ~0.2mm north/upward/toward-the-top-of-the-board, in order to prevent breakage of the thin metal there.
« Last Edit: Mon, 29 June 2020, 08:17:51 by toniwonkanobi »

Offline d.caminero

  • Posts: 184
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6460 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 09:16:12 »
What keycaps and case are you planning to use?

I have some nexus sliders so there are quite a few options. Case wise, just an artisan 60% wooden case.

Prepare to put in a bunch of work to make those sliders work well, ideally by modifying original alps housings. The nexus housings bind quite badly and change the feeling quite a bit.

I don't regret my nexus build, it's the only way I'd ever get SA Dasher keycaps on a board I'd actually daily drive, but there certainly are compromises to them and they'll never be quite as nice as unmodified alps.

Far easier to just file down a bit the opening on the nexus top housings so the keycap stem don't bind. I've made it for GMK keys and they only require two or three passes, nothing major. Not all MX keys bind, BTW

Offline mode

  • Posts: 264
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6461 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 13:52:23 »
Shifted up 0.2mm!

Edit: use the second one, it has fixed line colours.
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 June 2020, 00:52:20 by mode »

Offline toniwonkanobi

  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6462 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 15:11:19 »
Shifted up 0.2mm!

Wow! Did you use the AT101 I linked? Crazy cool. Only thing is that it looks like there’s no [stepped] Caps Lock in the file? And I think it’s missing some metal along the right side of the Return key right stabilizer clip, no? (Or does that interfere with the mounting screw hole or something?

Offline mode

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6463 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 15:28:15 »
Shifted up 0.2mm!

Wow! Did you use the AT101 I linked? Crazy cool. Only thing is that it looks like there’s no [stepped] Caps Lock in the file? And I think it’s missing some metal along the right side of the Return key right stabilizer clip, no? (Or does that interfere with the mounting screw hole or something?

I did, just shifted them up 0.2mm.

I have sgi and dell plates I can measure for the stepped capslock, will try and figure that out tomorrow.

Offline mode

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6464 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 15:38:43 »
Checked now, and the capslock is already correct, AT101/Granite capslock has a weird offset which results in the tab and capslock footprint being aligned, the bottom row is correct too for a 7u spacebar and 1.5u 1u 1.5u mods either side.

If they can manufacture the stab clips on the spacebar they can do the ANSI enter. If the file I uploaded doesn't work, then you're going to have to consider flipping the spacebar upside down. Alps stab mounts are not centred like cherry, so if you do it on the plate you'll have no choice but to go with a flipped spacebar.

Offline toniwonkanobi

  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6465 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 18:04:00 »
Checked now, and the capslock is already correct, AT101/Granite capslock has a weird offset which results in the tab and capslock footprint being aligned, the bottom row is correct too for a 7u spacebar and 1.5u 1u 1.5u mods either side.

If they can manufacture the stab clips on the spacebar they can do the ANSI enter. If the file I uploaded doesn't work, then you're going to have to consider flipping the spacebar upside down. Alps stab mounts are not centred like cherry, so if you do it on the plate you'll have no choice but to go with a flipped spacebar.



Weird. It looks like it’s missing the stepped caps outline altogether, the mounting holes, as well as the stabilizer post thingy. I don’t have the Granite keycaps in front of me, so I don’t remember what the space bar post situation is there?


Offline mode

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6466 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 00:13:34 »
huh, that’s not how it appears in qcad at all for me. will check again in a bit.

Offline mode

  • Posts: 264
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6467 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 00:50:54 »
There were inconsequential errors in the original file which are not visible with my CAD tool, if you clicked where you expected lines to be in the autocad viewer you'd see they're there.

I've made everything consistent with this one, I'll edit the other so nobody grabs that and uses it, though i'm sure laserboost would fabricate it fine.

Offline toniwonkanobi

  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6468 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 07:22:29 »
There were inconsequential errors in the original file which are not visible with my CAD tool, if you clicked where you expected lines to be in the autocad viewer you'd see they're there.

I've made everything consistent with this one, I'll edit the other so nobody grabs that and uses it, though i'm sure laserboost would fabricate it fine.

Wow. Dude. Thanks so much. I really appreciate it. My MacBook is with Apple right now (warranty repair for butterfly keyboard and random display issue), so I was *this* close to having to try Fusion360 on my wife's computer. You saved the day!



And if it's not terribly obvious by my embedded screenshot of an ancient version of Firefox: I'm currently using a ~12-year-old Mac Pro (MacPro3,1) on Mac OS X 10.6.8  :-\
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 June 2020, 07:27:45 by toniwonkanobi »

Offline gnho

  • Posts: 100
  • Location: ATX/US
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6469 on: Wed, 01 July 2020, 18:40:18 »
Hi all-

I know not many people use discord but there's a new channel being created for ALPS buy-sell-trade. If you use discord, here is the invite:

https://discord.gg/ss5YUD5

Please spread the word!

Offline Little4Real

  • Posts: 88
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6470 on: Sat, 04 July 2020, 03:35:58 »
Just heard that an-c v2 will no longer support ALPS...... WHY?????

Wait, there's an AN-C v2????

Online GlennL42

  • Posts: 40
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6471 on: Sat, 04 July 2020, 05:41:28 »
Hogging on the Alps plate discussion from earlier, anyone knows how to/can help me with modification of dxf file for a mixed stab configuration? 

I've tried to modify it myself but as a complete caveman when it comes to coding I failed miserably in trying to comprehend it, here's my file just in case (Cherry on spacebar and Alps on the rest)

Offline mode

  • Posts: 264
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6472 on: Sat, 04 July 2020, 07:34:23 »
Hogging on the Alps plate discussion from earlier, anyone knows how to/can help me with modification of dxf file for a mixed stab configuration? 

I've tried to modify it myself but as a complete caveman when it comes to coding I failed miserably in trying to comprehend it, here's my file just in case (Cherry on spacebar and Alps on the rest)

Capslock has stab bits, but the left one is all mangled and you don't need a stab on capslock, some alps keycaps do have mounts for stabs, but I've never seen a keyboard ship with a wire. Do you specifically want a stabilised capslock?

I think transplanting the layout you want (I'll re-do the lot tbh) onto the outline and cutouts of the AT101 plate would work best, the AT101 plate looks like it's designed for the same case, but has rounded corners and looks a bit more made to fit that kind of case.


Online GlennL42

  • Posts: 40
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6473 on: Sat, 04 July 2020, 08:22:34 »
Capslock has stab bits, but the left one is all mangled and you don't need a stab on capslock, some alps keycaps do have mounts for stabs, but I've never seen a keyboard ship with a wire. Do you specifically want a stabilised capslock?

I think transplanting the layout you want (I'll re-do the lot tbh) onto the outline and cutouts of the AT101 plate would work best, the AT101 plate looks like it's designed for the same case, but has rounded corners and looks a bit more made to fit that kind of case.

Yeah I only need Alps stab for left shift and enter only, don't know how to remove them so I left it in as is, my apologies

Offline mode

  • Posts: 264
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6474 on: Sat, 04 July 2020, 11:36:26 »
Capslock has stab bits, but the left one is all mangled and you don't need a stab on capslock, some alps keycaps do have mounts for stabs, but I've never seen a keyboard ship with a wire. Do you specifically want a stabilised capslock?

I think transplanting the layout you want (I'll re-do the lot tbh) onto the outline and cutouts of the AT101 plate would work best, the AT101 plate looks like it's designed for the same case, but has rounded corners and looks a bit more made to fit that kind of case.

Yeah I only need Alps stab for left shift and enter only, don't know how to remove them so I left it in as is, my apologies

Surely you need them for backspace and right shift too?

Online GlennL42

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6475 on: Sat, 04 July 2020, 22:28:35 »
Surely you need them for backspace and right shift too?

I'm using split backspace and split right shift, so no stab needed for them, sorry for not mentioning it earlier.

The layout looks like this
« Last Edit: Sat, 04 July 2020, 22:32:49 by GlennL42 »

Offline joecoolbob

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6476 on: Sat, 04 July 2020, 23:27:09 »
Surely you need them for backspace and right shift too?

I'm using split backspace and split right shift, so no stab needed for them, sorry for not mentioning it earlier.

The layout looks like this

you can use keyboard layout editor to create your layout. From that, you can use ai03's plate generator to create your plate file.
268.2 | MEME | Kendo FE

Offline gnho

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6477 on: Sun, 05 July 2020, 00:05:32 »
Just heard that an-c v2 will no longer support ALPS...... WHY?????

Wait, there's an AN-C v2????

In the future, yeah. Now right now.

Offline shallot

  • Posts: 4
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6478 on: Thu, 09 July 2020, 11:05:47 »
Swapped click leaves from alps.tw type OA2 clones into my M0116 with salmons - the result is really, really nice. I feel like the M0116 chassis really suits clicky switches.

Offline funkmon

  • Posts: 239
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6479 on: Thu, 09 July 2020, 13:35:12 »
So, after my period of using my Model F as a spacesaver, I have decided to give a Matias Laptop Pro keyboard a go. They're wireless and small, and of course they use Matias Alps style switches.

They're quite good, I like it a lot. The dampened alps in this one make it as quiet as a quiet rubber dome, but they feel like a very good rubber dome. Well, not quite. They're still fairly tactile, but the second step of tactility, plus the softness when bottoming out feels a lot like squishing a membrane, but like...good. It's hard to explain.

Overall though I'm liking it. I just have to see if I can work with such a small keyboard. It's really nice though. I'm loving it so far.

Anyone else here use dampened Alps?

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1251
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6480 on: Thu, 09 July 2020, 14:11:30 »
So, after my period of using my Model F as a spacesaver, I have decided to give a Matias Laptop Pro keyboard a go. They're wireless and small, and of course they use Matias Alps style switches.

They're quite good, I like it a lot. The dampened alps in this one make it as quiet as a quiet rubber dome, but they feel like a very good rubber dome. Well, not quite. They're still fairly tactile, but the second step of tactility, plus the softness when bottoming out feels a lot like squishing a membrane, but like...good. It's hard to explain.

Overall though I'm liking it. I just have to see if I can work with such a small keyboard. It's really nice though. I'm loving it so far.

Anyone else here use dampened Alps?

You could buy some Matias switches and swap the sliders and leaves around however you like too. Since I made some dampened clickies to play with, I did have a bunch of undampened tactiles as a result ... until I decided I have no need for tactiles and modified their leaves into being clicky as well. Their tactiles seem a lot smoother to me without the dampening, for whatever that's worth. I'm still not sure why the linears feel like butter with the same freaking sliders.

Offline mode

  • Posts: 264
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6481 on: Thu, 09 July 2020, 15:46:42 »
So, after my period of using my Model F as a spacesaver, I have decided to give a Matias Laptop Pro keyboard a go. They're wireless and small, and of course they use Matias Alps style switches.

They're quite good, I like it a lot. The dampened alps in this one make it as quiet as a quiet rubber dome, but they feel like a very good rubber dome. Well, not quite. They're still fairly tactile, but the second step of tactility, plus the softness when bottoming out feels a lot like squishing a membrane, but like...good. It's hard to explain.

Overall though I'm liking it. I just have to see if I can work with such a small keyboard. It's really nice though. I'm loving it so far.

Anyone else here use dampened Alps?

You could buy some Matias switches and swap the sliders and leaves around however you like too. Since I made some dampened clickies to play with, I did have a bunch of undampened tactiles as a result ... until I decided I have no need for tactiles and modified their leaves into being clicky as well. Their tactiles seem a lot smoother to me without the dampening, for whatever that's worth. I'm still not sure why the linears feel like butter with the same freaking sliders.

Most roughness with alps switches comes from tactile/click leaves. linears are thus inherently loads smoother!

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1251
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6482 on: Thu, 09 July 2020, 16:24:31 »
So, after my period of using my Model F as a spacesaver, I have decided to give a Matias Laptop Pro keyboard a go. They're wireless and small, and of course they use Matias Alps style switches.

They're quite good, I like it a lot. The dampened alps in this one make it as quiet as a quiet rubber dome, but they feel like a very good rubber dome. Well, not quite. They're still fairly tactile, but the second step of tactility, plus the softness when bottoming out feels a lot like squishing a membrane, but like...good. It's hard to explain.

Overall though I'm liking it. I just have to see if I can work with such a small keyboard. It's really nice though. I'm loving it so far.

Anyone else here use dampened Alps?

You could buy some Matias switches and swap the sliders and leaves around however you like too. Since I made some dampened clickies to play with, I did have a bunch of undampened tactiles as a result ... until I decided I have no need for tactiles and modified their leaves into being clicky as well. Their tactiles seem a lot smoother to me without the dampening, for whatever that's worth. I'm still not sure why the linears feel like butter with the same freaking sliders.

Most roughness with alps switches comes from tactile/click leaves. linears are thus inherently loads smoother!

I haven't had any roughness with Alps clickies that are in good shape, or Matias' clickies. You've had rough Alps clickies that weren't dirty? The Matias linears actually have a .... linear .... leaf, as well, and if I swap a slider from a clicky switch into what is an otherwise stock Matias tactile switch, it smooths out significantly. I do wonder if it is the Matias tactile leaf , specifically, but have no idea how a slider with no dampening should make any difference in that case.

Offline mode

  • Posts: 264
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6483 on: Fri, 10 July 2020, 00:35:00 »
Most roughness with alps switches comes from tactile/click leaves. linears are thus inherently loads smoother!

I haven't had any roughness with Alps clickies that are in good shape, or Matias' clickies. You've had rough Alps clickies that weren't dirty? The Matias linears actually have a .... linear .... leaf, as well, and if I swap a slider from a clicky switch into what is an otherwise stock Matias tactile switch, it smooths out significantly. I do wonder if it is the Matias tactile leaf , specifically, but have no idea how a slider with no dampening should make any difference in that case.

I don't mean rough as in terrible, it's just noticable, especially with lower quality SKCM black that if you remove the leave they're suddenly extremely smooth.

Interesting that linears have a leaf opposite the switch mech, didn't know that. I do wonder if the slider plastic is indeed a little different. SKCM sliders certainly do vary a bunch, some are, oily, some feel completely dry and they exhibit different properties when rubbed against housing and/or metal.