ANSI Model F AT mod - 8.25.2013

[The_Beast]

So AKIMbO was nice enough to trade me his Model F AT! It's a great board, however it's not prefect. So I plan on:

 - 2x backspace
 - Standard ANSI enter and \| key
 - Making the spacebar uniform to the rest of the keys
 - sanding and re-painting the front plate (it's a bit rusty)
 - And maybe replacing the LEDS to a nice blue color

This is the standard layout Model F AT



As you can see, I've already taken apart the entire thing and I want to get this done as soon as possible.




Got my plate painted today




Here are some pictures of the foam backer as well







I had 2 small rust spots on the back plate. Sucks that I had to mess up the amazing finish, but it had to be done. Plus, I'll almost never see it so it's not a huge deal



And I can't believe how good the PCB looks!


I'm just waiting on barrels and then I should be done with this mod other than an external Soarers box

[Techno Trousers]

Nice! Looking forward to this one. I have an F 122 with a new homemade foam mat ready to go back together, but I need to get some more spring clamps to make that possible.

[The_Beast]

Nice! Looking forward to this one. I have an F 122 with a new homemade foam mat ready to go back together, but I need to get some more spring clamps to make that possible.

So you need to replace thet foam mat?

[Techno Trousers]

I hand cut a new one from some art store foam, since the original was falling apart when I opened the keyboard. Now I just need to compress the plates and foam pad back together under the tabs if I can. I may have to do the fohat.digs bolt mod method, but I'd prefer to avoid drilling if I can. I'm planning to get some extra clamps so I can compress and slide everything together. I need about six hands for that beastie!

[The_Beast]

I hand cut a new one from some art store foam, since the original was falling apart when I opened the keyboard. Now I just need to compress the plates and foam pad back together under the tabs if I can. I may have to do the fohat.digs bolt mod method, but I'd prefer to avoid drilling if I can. I'm planning to get some extra clamps so I can compress and slide everything together. I need about six hands for that beastie!

The foam mat I have is pretty nice yet. I'll have to post some pictures of it.


Now I just need to decide whether or not I'm going to do an internal or external Soarers mod.

External I could use with another model F (if I ever get one) and it would keep the stock look.

Internal I loose the super long cable (which would be nice) but I'm not sure how well I could make the detectable cable look...

[fohat.digs]

Now I just need to compress the plates and foam pad back together under the tabs if I can.

I may have to do the fohat.digs bolt mod method, but I'd prefer to avoid drilling if I can.

Get the clamps at Home Depot.

I am re-writing the guide and plan to remove the part about cutting off the tabs.

I have come to the conclusion that it was a bad idea.

[wcass]

you can use binder clips (office supply) for clamps too.

for replacement foam, i like 1/16" neoprene from McMaster-Carr. cheap and available in extra soft, soft, firm.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#8647k102/=o5cbw5

[Techno Trousers]

Ooh, that's a great tip. I was going to use art supply foam, but it's more like 1/8" thick and smells kind of funny. What density do you use?

[Moosecraft]

Looking forward to see your work. I've always wondered how a Model F feels like even though all buckling spring keyboards scare me away because of their high actuation force.

[The_Beast]

you can use binder clips (office supply) for clamps too.

for replacement foam, i like 1/16" neoprene from McMaster-Carr. cheap and available in extra soft, soft, firm.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#8647k102/=o5cbw5

Ohhh, he speaks! Do I have to replace the foam if the original one is still in good shape?

Looking forward to see your work. I've always wondered how a Model F feels like even though all buckling spring keyboards scare me away because of their high actuation force.

I like 55g clears and 55g blacks. I also love BS boards...... so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[fohat.digs]

You do not have to replace the foam unless it has deteriorated badly. I have re-used some pretty ugly ones.

The art foam I got was no more than 1/16" thick and came in fancy colors.

If anybody buys a sheet of neoprene and wants to sell pieces (about 8" x 20") I would buy one or 2 if the price was good.

[sleepy916]

Yeah putting back a 122 F with your bare hands is damn near impossible. My restoration is on hold until I can put the sucker back too.

[wcass]

i don't recall if i used soft or extra soft when a replacement was needed, but if your foam is in good shape, keep using it.

do you plan on splitting the space bar to add "alt" keys?

[The_Beast]

i don't recall if i used soft or extra soft when a replacement was needed, but if your foam is in good shape, keep using it.

do you plan on splitting the space bar to add "alt" keys?

That's great! I think it looks pretty decent. It's pretty flat, but there are no rips in it. If not, there are a few local fabric stores where I might be able to pick up a foam or neoprene sheet for cheap

I really don't use alt that much so I'm going to keep the standard spacebar.

[Moosecraft]

Looking forward to see your work. I've always wondered how a Model F feels like even though all buckling spring keyboards scare me away because of their high actuation force.

I like 55g clears and 55g blacks. I also love BS boards...... so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
[/quote]
Well I do wish to try one eventually but right now I'm still exploring cherry land

[fohat.digs]

Yeah putting back a 122 F with your bare hands is damn near impossible. My restoration is on hold until I can put the sucker back too.

In my guide, I showed 2 spring clamps on either side, and a long clamp to make it slide. That is about $20 in clamps from Home Depot but it makes the assembly simple, clean, and easy.

If you know any carpenters, they are sure to have them.

[Techno Trousers]

Sounds like a lot of us are doing this project, in one way or another! fohat.digs, I'm about to buy 2 feet of the super soft to try out. I should be able to make 6 8x21 sheets out of that, and I only need four sheets (2 F 122s, and two spare sheets for future use). I'll send you the two extra pieces when they come in.

[sleepy916]

Yeah putting back a 122 F with your bare hands is damn near impossible. My restoration is on hold until I can put the sucker back too.

In my guide, I showed 2 spring clamps on either side, and a long clamp to make it slide. That is about $20 in clamps from Home Depot but it makes the assembly simple, clean, and easy.

If you know any carpenters, they are sure to have them.

I need a long clamp, I did buy two clamps and tried doing it by tapping a hammer on one end but it never fully locked in. I will try it with a long clamp when I get time after moving.

[fohat.digs]

I need a long clamp, I did buy two clamps and tried doing it by tapping a hammer on one end

I know that the long clamp might cost $10-$15 but you need it.

No doubt you now understand that there are 200+ little parts that need to stay precisely in place whilst you wrestle this wildebeest.

With everything clamped and < slowly > moving sideways and horizontal, you can get it all perfect, using lots of pressure, and nothing will jump out of place.

[Techno Trousers]

If anyone has a Harbor Freight tools nearby, you should be able to get some cheap clamps. I wouldn't buy tools there to use for serious woodworking purposes, or expect them to last a long time, but for this kind of use it should be fine.

[Techno Trousers]

Actually, this looks like a really sweet pipe clamp that would be totally perfect for this project. $10 apiece, plus the cost of some 3/4" pipe. I already have a pair of bar clamps or I would probably get this. They also have 3" spring clamps for $3 apiece, so I'll be picking up four of those.

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-4-quarter-inch-pipe-clamp-with-base-94053.html

[JBert]

I need a long clamp, I did buy two clamps and tried doing it by tapping a hammer on one end

I know that the long clamp might cost $10-$15 but you need it.

No doubt you now understand that there are 200+ little parts that need to stay precisely in place whilst you wrestle this wildebeest.

With everything clamped and < slowly > moving sideways and horizontal, you can get it all perfect, using lots of pressure, and nothing will jump out of place.

I did get an XT back together using four clamps, a hammer and some pieces of wood to spread the impact. You should keep the caps off, and then it's just the spacebar which can be a problem.

I managed to beat that one too using some fishing wire to keep it in its position, though I'll have to look up if I still got the pictures from before the great GH blackout.

[fohat.digs]

The small ones (XT & AT) are relatively easy. I have done them by hand without undue problem, but I have big strong hands.

To hold the spacebar in place, I used a loop of thread with a weight (I used a wrench) going around the stem (the mechanism was upside down, of course) as I slid it together. Afterwards, I simply pulled the thread back out.

[The_Beast]

Got my plate painted today! More updates in the OP!

[wcass]

a very nice job on that plate.

i noticed that all of the stabilizer mounts are missing. will you be putting them back in?

[The_Beast]

a very nice job on that plate.

i noticed that all of the stabilizer mounts are missing. will you be putting them back in?

I did take them out to paint it. I don't think I'll be adding them back one since I just just use some inserts and model M caps


Also, I noticed 2 small rust spots on the back plate so I painted those. Kinda sucked since the finish on the back plate is super cool, but I'll never see it again unless I open the case so it had to be done.

[YakMN]

I just got a Model F AT in today, and am looking forward to doing an ANSI mod. I would like to do backspace bigger, move blackslash, shrink down enter, and put in a shorter space bar so I can add in extra modifier keys (basically make it like a Model M layout in the core area).

I see references to a guide to a model F ANSI mod, but I can't find it. I search around a bunch, but it's hard to search for "Model F" on GH. The forum finds F's everywhere. I found these guides:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=260143&currentpage=251
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=8893.0

I still have a couple questions:
1. to do the space bar shortening, do I drill new holes through the metal backplate? (I havent' disassembed this one, but it looks like you would need to make your own holes from other people's pics).
2. What is a good source for donor barrels? I have a Model F XT around that I don't use, but I'd prefer not to sacrifice it unless necessary. I have a lot of Model Ms (I rather foolishly assumed I should buy some extras to last me, as they broke down. That was 10 years ago, and I'm still on the first one (of course), but Model Ms look like a big solid sheet of plastic.
3. stabilizer inserts... is there a source for these?

I'm thinking bright orange or something for the backplate painting. The blue above looks great, but it isn't maybe very visible once the keys are back on? Maybe just hard to see in a photo?

[fohat.digs]

For the Enter and Backspace question, you can use the same technique that I showed for the larger Model F.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37753.msg939433#msg939433

I don't remember the barrel setup for the spacebar on the AT, but the spacebar has to accommodate the existing understructure, unless you plan to add a dummy barrel to accommodate another spacebar. The location would have to be perfect and it would be tricky.

I have not had an F-AT apart in a long time, and don't remember the PCB layout, but every existing switch probably has a barrel hole associated with it, even if it is empty.

The F-122 barrels have a "buttress"-like alignment tab on the barrel itself at about "4:00-o'clock" on the side, and the XT uses an upright rounded stud separate from the barrel at "6:00-o'clock" I do not remember which type the AT uses. I have spares of both, if you want to PM me.

You can get barrel insert stabilizers from a Model M (presumably you are parting out the worst one for your keys) by fishing them out with a bent paper clip. Be careful not to damage the inside surface.

[wcass]

here is a link to my project. it was from before the blackout, so pictures and attachments are missing, but instructions for adding ALT keys and M space bar (and stabilizer) are there.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=25919.0

you might find the templates for new foam pad and cutting the barrel plate (ALT keys mod) useful, so i'll re-post them here for anyone that needs them. print what you need at 100% and check that the measurement matches the value. if it doesn't, you might need to scale to 99% or 101% to get it right.

[YakMN]

fohat: thank you! That's the guide I was looking for. Kept seeing references to it. Pretty amazing write-up, by the way. So I can get the stabilizer insert thingie from another Model M: no problem. I'm going to have to steal a backslash, enter key, keypad enter, backspace, spacebar, and a couple 1.5x modifier keys anyway. So looks like I probably need 2 hammer assemblies and 2 or 3 barrels, depending on how the space bar goes. The AT barrels also have the buttress thing at 4 o'clock. In the photos, I would say they look identical to the 122 key barrels.

Wcass's mod, the he posted just above, must be where I got the idea for the short space bar + keys.

Wcass, your template doesn't show a barrel on the left side of the spacebar, acting as a stabilizer. Looks like from this photo anyway, that Model M spacebars expect a stabilizer barrel there? Did you have any trouble without using one?

[wcass]

the M doesn't actually use that barrel. the space bar stabilizer is similar to the stabilizer on 2x model F keys - it uses a wire and wire hold-downs like an anti-sway bar on a car. i used folded sheet metal to make hold-downs and fixed them to the barrel plate with JB Weld. place one hold-down between the comma and period barrels and another between C and V. if you look at that picture of the M barrel plate, you will see them there.

[YakMN]

Oh, I think i understand now. I thought that link was just bad.

You don't use that product you linked to as the spring, you use it as the HOLDER for the spring bar, and you just re-use the Model M spacebar spring. right? That makes sense and is very straightforward.

[The_Beast]

Another update! I'm just waiting on some hammers and this mod should be done!

[dorkvader]

Nice! Looking forward to this one. I have an F 122 with a new homemade foam mat ready to go back together, but I need to get some more spring clamps to make that possible.

So you need to replace thet foam mat?

Replacing the foam is by far the hardest part of cleaning a model F. Good to see yours was in such great shape. I have some replacement foam that didn't work out, so now I'm trying it again with some felt.

[The_Beast]

Nice! Looking forward to this one. I have an F 122 with a new homemade foam mat ready to go back together, but I need to get some more spring clamps to make that possible.

So you need to replace thet foam mat?

Replacing the foam is by far the hardest part of cleaning a model F. Good to see yours was in such great shape. I have some replacement foam that didn't work out, so now I'm trying it again with some felt.

I thought it didn't look that good, so it's great to hear that I can reuse it!

[sleepy916]

Another update! I'm just waiting on some hammers and this mod should be done!

Show Image

More hammers? I remember having enough switching the setup to ANSI, unless you were going to mod the spacebar.

[The_Beast]

Another update! I'm just waiting on some hammers and this mod should be done!

Show Image

More hammers? I remember having enough switching the setup to ANSI, unless you were going to mod the spacebar.

Hmm, thinking about it, I should have enough since the 1x \| can be used for the 1.5 sized one above the enter........

Akimbo said I needed one and he knows more about this then me.

[sleepy916]

Another update! I'm just waiting on some hammers and this mod should be done!

Show Image

More hammers? I remember having enough switching the setup to ANSI, unless you were going to mod the spacebar.

Hmm, thinking about it, I should have enough since the 1x \| can be used for the 1.5 sized one above the enter........

Akimbo said I needed one and he knows more about this then me.

Unless you are doing something different with your numpad, like more single 1x keys, you won't need more.

[The_Beast]

Another update! I'm just waiting on some hammers and this mod should be done!

Show Image

More hammers? I remember having enough switching the setup to ANSI, unless you were going to mod the spacebar.

Hmm, thinking about it, I should have enough since the 1x \| can be used for the 1.5 sized one above the enter........

Akimbo said I needed one and he knows more about this then me.

Unless you are doing something different with your numpad, like more single 1x keys, you won't need more.

Nope, just a ANSI enter and backspace. This is great! I might put it back together tonight then! I'll just have to steal some inserts and model M caps from my 65% M since I don't have enough.

[The_Beast]

oh yuss!




I also lighted the spacebar so it is more uniform! Now just a Soarers to get the number pad working how I want to without an AHK program.

[AKIMbO]

Awww yusss.....nice F AT.

[Game Theory]

I also lighted the spacebar so it is more uniform! Now just a Soarers to get the number pad working how I want to without an AHK program.

Congratulations on the sweer F AT.

[sleepy916]

Good job, now clean that enter key on the numpad!

[The_Beast]

Good job, now clean that enter key on the numpad!

That enter sucks. I have the white insert in the empty barrel, but that enter doesn't have the leg that goes inside the white insert so it isn't very stable. Same problem with the 0 key.

So right now I have a blank enter key that does have the leg and I'll need to find a printed set that has those. Maybe a printed unicomp set will do the trick

The one downfall is it sucks for gaming . Tried playing some BF3 and I couldn't jump while sprinting since I think this board only has 2KRO

[fohat.digs]

Good job, now clean that enter key on the numpad!

That enter sucks. I have the white insert in the empty barrel, but that enter doesn't have the leg that goes inside the white insert so it isn't very stable. Same problem with the 0 key.

So right now I have a blank enter key that does have the leg and I'll need to find a printed set that has those. Maybe a printed unicomp set will do the trick

The one downfall is it sucks for gaming . Tried playing some BF3 and I couldn't jump while sprinting since I think this board only has 2KRO

Those long keys have either wire stabilizers or insert stabilizers, but not both. If you have tabs as you mention in post #26, then you can put them back in. Problem might be that F wires are thinner than M wires .....

[YakMN]

Don't be afraid of the soarer mod. It's dead easy. I used the smallest breadboard I could find, to minimize soldering. I don't hate soldering, I'm just bad at it. I ordered the breadboard and a DIn-5 plug from mouser, and it literally took 5 mins to solder. there are only 4 wires! And then about 30 mins playing with the soarer config before I got what I wanted. Of course now I'll spend 3 hours making it fit pretty into the project box, but if you don't want an adapter cable, you could skip all that and just put it right into your AT case.

[Grr8]

Hi,

Since this has most of the information I needed for fixing up my AT Model F, I think this is the right place to ask.

And this is a very hard thread to find searching on Google...


Ok, I have a AT Model F. The foam has nearly completely disintegrated.

The issue I am having is key presses do nothing unless the keyboard is standing on the edge. Then it is intermittent.

Is this a bad foam issue, a loose assembly issue, or something else?

Thanks for any help.

[fohat.digs]

I discuss this in my guide.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48786.msg1122437#msg1122437

I think that the art foam sheets, $1 at Micheal's, are about as good as anything. Not to thin, not too thick.

[Grr8]

Hi,

Thanks read that all now, and will have to get organised with clamps and try it all again.

So the symptom of a plate not sitting together right is no key presses working?

Or is it a symptom of bad foam needing replacement?

Thanks!

[fohat.digs]

no key presses working?

These things are monstrously strong but fickle, too.

I have been working on one for a couple of weeks that looks and feels perfect but just won't play.

First, do you think that your problem is electrical or mechanical in nature? Do the keystrokes register with a proper click? You will sometimes get a nice click if the plates are wrong, but do make sure that your mechanical operation is right. Are some of them working, and others not?

The foot moving up and down changes capacitance, and that is a fairly narrow range. If the plates are too close together or too far apart, they will stay open or closed all the time instead of changing. If you have the sliding force fit positioned properly, you will likely have most keys working with some "zones" gone dark.

I have had boards which worked even though the original mat was a dead shredded sheet of gritty slime. Before I took them apart, that is.