Suggest a compact layout for beginner?

[shared4you]

Hi guys,

I'm a beginner to mechanical keyboards. I was looking for an ANSI/US-layout
compact keyboard (60% - 70%) with the following features:

1. Ability to swap CAPSLOCK and CTRL_L. I use Vim a lot.
2. Ability to put ESC to the left of 1, preferably swappable instead of hard-wired. Again, coz of Vim!
3. Relatively big keys for SHIFTs, TAB, CAPSLOCK, BACKSPACE and SPACE. The ENTER key need not be L-shaped.
4. Must have both CTRL_L and CTRL_R
5. Must have dedicated arrow keys (not those with Fn + something)
6. Must ship to Europe

Prefereable:

7. Dedicated keys for PageUp & PageDown (for source code browsing!)
8. Cherry MX Brown
9. Price range: < $200

I don't mind if they are ~65 keys or ~85 keys. Both are ok. But I do not like the
usual ten-keyless types because well, they are still too "big"

I've done my research and I've ruled out the following keyboards:

HHKB Pro 2: No arrow keys, beyond price range
HHKB Lite 2: Has only CTRL_L (no CTRL_R). Also, no CAPSLOCK at all!
KBT Race: ESC cannot be put to the left of 1
KBT Pure: no dedicated arrow keys
KBT Pure Pro: way too small SHIFT_L and SHIFT_R. Both are just 1-key wide!
KBC Poker: no dedicated arrow keys
Deck 82 Ice:  way too small SHIFT_R. Cannot put ESC beside 1.
Majestouch MINILA: no CTRL_R at all. SHIFT_R is just 1-key wide. Don't even get me started on the small SPACE!
Noppoo Choc Mini: ESC cannot be put to the left of 1. Also MX browns are out-of-stock everywhere
Keycool 84 keys: ESC cannot be put to the left of 1.
Poker II: No arrow keys

If there are any errors, please let me know. Am I asking for too much ??!!

[tbc]

fc660m?

not sure about Europe availability

[shared4you]

Hmm, FC660M looks interesting. But those Insert and Delete keys look out-of-place. May be is there some other keyboard that also has dedicated PageUp + PageDown keys? Anyways, this comes close.

Yea, I checked from EliteKeyboards website that they do ship to Europe, but no warranty

[tbc]

sorry forgot to mention to use AHK with this. ive never seen anything out there with what you want.

[shared4you]

Sorry, I don't use Windows. I'm on Linux. AHK won't do.

[yasuo]

I've done my research and I've ruled out the following keyboards:

HHKB Pro 2: No arrow keys, beyond price range
HHKB Lite 2: Has only CTRL_L (no CTRL_R). Also, no CAPSLOCK at all!
KBT Race: ESC cannot be put to the left of 1
KBT Pure: no dedicated arrow keys
KBT Pure Pro: way too small SHIFT_L and SHIFT_R. Both are just 1-key wide!
KBC Poker: no dedicated arrow keys
Deck 82 Ice:  way too small SHIFT_R. Cannot put ESC beside 1.
Majestouch MINILA: no CTRL_R at all. SHIFT_R is just 1-key wide. Don't even get me started on the small SPACE!
Noppoo Choc Mini: ESC cannot be put to the left of 1. Also MX browns are out-of-stock everywhere
Keycool 84 keys: ESC cannot be put to the left of 1.
Poker II: No arrow keys

If there are any errors, please let me know. Am I asking for too much ??!!

It seems 84key suitable for you ,only problem with ESC you can swap

[shared4you]

It seems 84key suitable for you ,only problem with ESC you can swap

Does any of those highlighted keyboards offer an option to swap ESC (ex: via DIP switches) ? I do not want to mess with software (ex: AutoHotKey or setxkbmap) for these things -- I can do them on my current keyboard as well; the idea is to do it in physical hardware

[dante]

Leopold FC660M

[yasuo]

Does any of those highlighted keyboards offer an option to swap ESC (ex: via DIP switches) ? I do not want to mess with software (ex: AutoHotKey or setxkbmap) for these things -- I can do them on my current keyboard as well; the idea is to do it in physical hardware

No,unfortunately 
but, for hardware you can play around with teensy (controller) ex:http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41989.0;topicseen

[tbc]

Sorry, I don't use Windows. I'm on Linux. AHK won't do.

oh man, sorry dude.  I really think you're SOL

[stancato9]

Just go for a TKL if you need the F keys and right cluster or a 60% if you don't

[shared4you]

Oh dear doesn't anyone know a keyboard that meets 5 simple requirements?!!! Come on GH!  

I'm currently leaning between FC600M and Tex Beetle. It's a pain to get either of them in Europe

[gnubag]

Oh dear doesn't anyone know a keyboard that meets 5 simple requirements?!!! Come on GH!  

I'm currently leaning between FC600M and Tex Beetle. It's a pain to get either of them in Europe

well you could make a programmable controller for the FC600m since this is geekHACK.
ez there you go.

[mauri]

Oh dear doesn't anyone know a keyboard that meets 5 simple requirements?!!! Come on GH!  

I'm currently leaning between FC600M and Tex Beetle. It's a pain to get either of them in Europe

If it was that easy we'd all have our dream boards

[davkol]

Sorry, I don't use Windows. I'm on Linux. AHK won't do.

Pystromo

[Hypersphere]

The Tex Beetle has great build quality and good looks, as well as dedicated arrow keys in a 60% form factor. However, I find typing difficult because of the non-standard staggering in the z-row and the small right-shift key.

The Leopold FC660 series might work for you, but I am not sure about the Esc key. PageUp and PageDown are in the Fn layer, but accessible in two ways, both of which are highly intuitive. The FC660M has Cherry mx switches and the FC660C has Topre switches. I have tried them both, and I  much prefer the Topre switches. However, Leopold has not yet made replacement keycaps available. I would like to see some attractive two-tone sets in dye-sub PBT, like those on the RF 87u or HHKB Pro 2. Until then, I will continue to use my IBM SSK. BTW, I primarily use Mac OS X and Linux; sometimes I use Windows 7.

[CPTBadAss]

You've literally ruled out every keyboard I would've recommended. You're asking for something too specific. If you can break your $200 limit, then I'd suggest an MX mini. Otherwise, GH60 might work for you.

[spiceBar]

And how many months will he have to wait for a GH60?

The Leopold FC660C is GREAT and the closest to what you are looking for.

It has one of the best switches around, the Topre switches. I have not said they are the best switches, as this is subjective, but I'm pretty sure you can't go wrong by purchasing a keyboard equipped with them.

It has dedicated arrow keys.

Don't worry too much about the right part of the keyboard. You have INS and DEL here which is quite useful. I know you are not fond of remapping keys in software, but a nice idea is to remap them to PgUp/PgDn, just sayin'.

The ESC and backtick are on the same key, and they can by switched on the fly with Fn-Q. When you have backtick on this key, the INS LED lights up, so you know what you are doing.

Some keys, like Control and CapsLock can be moved around with the DIP switches under the board. Have a look here:
  http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,compact&pid=fc660c

This keyboard is great, and the Topre version (the C model) is in your price range. They can send it to you in Europe.

[badcop]

You've literally ruled out every keyboard I would've recommended. You're asking for something too specific. If you can break your $200 limit, then I'd suggest an MX mini. Otherwise, GH60 might work for you.

pretty much this.  gh60 will probably get you pretty close to what you're looking for if you find the right plate.  other than that, i'd suggest going with a TKL with dip switches or program-ability the control/caps swap.  realforce, phantom or even a WASD TKL V2 would do

[CPTBadAss]

And how many months will he have to wait for a GH60?

It's due in October so a month?

[CommunistWitchDr]

I use Vim a lot.

Must have dedicated arrow keys (not those with Fn + something)

What? HJKL bro. Keep your damn fingers off the arrows. And if you have to use them use them in a fn layer on home row.

[spiceBar]

And how many months will he have to wait for a GH60?

It's due in October so a month?

You mean it's still possible to order one? Damn! I want one!!!

[badcop]

And how many months will he have to wait for a GH60?

It's due in October so a month?

You mean it's still possible to order one? Damn! I want one!!!

Not from the group but a vendors did pick up large numbers for resale.

[lcs]

The swappable keys are easily done using xmodmap in any linux. So that's not really a requirement.

[spiceBar]

And how many months will he have to wait for a GH60?

It's due in October so a month?

You mean it's still possible to order one? Damn! I want one!!!

Not from the group but a vendors did pick up large numbers for resale.

Can you please tell me who I should contact? I have done a search but not found the info I'm looking for. Thank you in advance.

[daerid]

I'm telling you dude, your requirements are pretty much exactly mine.

Get a FC660C/M. You won't be disappointed. Best compact board I've ever used. Fn+Up/Down is PageUp/PageDn, totally usable and intuitive.

[eadams]

+1 for FC660C.  I'm using it right now as my first compact (came in 8 days ago) and I'm really enjoying it.  Muscle memory isn't totally there yet, but it's coming along really quickly.

Also, on the arrow key/vi note, if you learn the huge number of shortcuts for navigating, you won't need the arrow keys.  As previously mentioned, hjkl does the same thing, and quick searches and multi-line navigation will speed you up a lot when you get the muscle memory for it.

Good luck in your search.

 - Eric

[Hypersphere]

Another vote for the Leopold FC660C. Great layout. Really nothing to learn except the positions of the right control and Fn keys, but these can be changed using the DIP switches or software.

I also have the FC660M (Cherry blue switches), but I much prefer the FC660C (Topre 45-gram switches).

The only thing I do not like about the FC660C thus far (I've been using it only for two days) is the lack of replacement keycaps. Leopold, or someone, needs to make available some high-quality dye-sub PBT sets, preferably with a two-tone option and of comparable workmanship and appearance to the excellent keycaps on the gray and white RF 87u or the gray and white HHKB Pro 2.

[domoaligato]

If you want something that custom you could also wait for the gh75 project.