Author Topic: "Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs  (Read 29926 times)

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Offline iMav

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« on: Fri, 28 November 2008, 16:03:41 »
I'm going to be retro-fitting one of my "Quiet Touch technology" M5-2's (see Unicomp's On-the-Ball keyboard) to buckling springs.  So I figured I'd document it here.  

Here's the keyboard:





And here's what actuates the membrane switch (pushes the two membrane sheets together):



The backplate came off without issue:



And here are the membrane sheets:


Offline lam47

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 29 November 2008, 07:58:20 »
Good luck on this. I will be keeping an eye for sure.
Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3

Offline bigpook

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 29 November 2008, 08:15:35 »
Same here. Hope it turns out all right.
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline iMav

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 29 November 2008, 10:25:06 »
I also happened upon another Model M2 which has "quiet touch".  I will be retro-fitting that one with buckling springs as well.  (a much easier project since there is no metal backplate and plastic rivets to deal with)  Keys and rubber actuation sheet (whatever you want to call it) are exactly the same as on the Model M5-2.

Offline iMav

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 07:37:10 »
Looks like this project is dead.  Unicomp won't sell the neoprene sheet that sits between the buckling spring assemblies and the membrane sheets.  They will sell the entire assembly (backplate, top, and innards all assembled), but it seems silly to replace everything but the shell.

Speaking of which, I would have to replace the controller as well.  According to Unicomp:

Quote
Also, the rubberdome controller used in the keyboard you have is different than the controller used on buckling spring keyboards. Again, the controller will work but you will be compromising performance. The switch timing and debounce algorithms are completely different between the 2 keyboards.

I found that quite interesting.

Offline bigpook

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 07:47:31 »
It blows my mind how all that works. There are so many things going on that I am not even aware of.
The fact that the character appears on the screen in the first place is magic to me, now you are talking about switch timing and "debounce algorithms". Thats something else.
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline lowpoly

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 08:05:17 »
Quote
Looks like this project is dead. Unicomp won't sell the neoprene sheet that sits between the buckling spring assemblies and the membrane sheets.

Maybe cut it yourself from a piece of sheet rubber or neoprene?

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline wellington1869

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 08:08:28 »
Quote from: bigpook;13231
It blows my mind how all that works. There are so many things going on that I am not even aware of.
The fact that the character appears on the screen in the first place is magic to me, now you are talking about switch timing and "debounce algorithms". Thats something else.


Its sorcery, I tell ya.  In another age comp sci folk would have been burned at the stake for all this magic.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline lam47

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 08:10:59 »
Well that's a shame. I was looking forward to seeing this.
Out of interest do the Unicomp springs feel/sound much different to the original IBM ones?
Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3

Offline bigpook

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 08:13:50 »
Quote from: wellington1869;13235
Its sorcery, I tell ya.  In another age comp sci folk would have been burned at the stake for all this magic.


Sadly, that is so true.
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline iMav

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 08:24:28 »
I'd still have to rape a controller from a buckling spring 'board (although I'm not convinced that they are programmed differently...even though Unicomp says so).  ;)

I might try to find some similar material, or go looking for a Model M is very poor condition to take from...and take my chances with the controller for now.

Offline bhtooefr

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 08:57:58 »
lam47: IMO, yes.

My blue-logo IBM US 1391401, blue-logo white-chassis Lexmark M13, and Unicomp EnduraPro all sound and feel different.

Offline wellington1869

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 09:24:24 »
Quote from: lam47;13236
Well that's a shame. I was looking forward to seeing this.
Out of interest do the Unicomp springs feel/sound much different to the original IBM ones?


definitely. I had an endurapro, and the springs were lighter and the keys themselves were flimsier and the sound was very different from the old model M I had. (On the endurapro the sound was higher in tone, bottom out clack was way louder).
Basically i really preferred the M. That said, I know there are people on geekhack who have preferred the lighter feel (and even the higher-tone sound) of the unicomp boards.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline iMav

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 09:30:31 »
I've compared the buckling spring assemblies you can purchase from Unicomp with ones from older Model M's and I can't tell a difference.  

Could simply be the difference in age and, possibly, differences with the rest of the keyboard and keycaps.

Offline bhtooefr

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 09:31:19 »
I do recall reading somewhere that IBM allowed a 30% variance in spring weights, IIRC, though. And, usually the Lexmark boards are considered to feel worse.

Offline bigpook

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 10:52:21 »
Quote from: bhtooefr;13252
I do recall reading somewhere that IBM allowed a 30% variance in spring weights, IIRC, though. And, usually the Lexmark boards are considered to feel worse.


I don't know about that. I have a lexmark model m mini and it has excellent feel. Its on par with my IBM model M's....YMMV though.
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline lam47

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 10:55:12 »
I'm just after a way to even out the keys on my M you see.
Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3

Offline iMav

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 11:06:17 »
Quote from: lam47;13263
I'm just after a way to even out the keys on my M you see.

I wouldn't hesitate to crack it open and get replacement buckling springs if you want.  Alternatively, you can order the entire frame assembly (blackplate, buckling spring assemblies, membrane sheets, etc) as a single assembled item for around $20 from Unicomp.  (I was quoted $25 for the frame assembly and a set of black, blank keys)

Offline lam47

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 11:24:46 »
Quote from: iMav;13265
I wouldn't hesitate to crack it open and get replacement buckling springs if you want.  Alternatively, you can order the entire frame assembly (blackplate, buckling spring assemblies, membrane sheets, etc) as a single assembled item for around $20 from Unicomp.  (I was quoted $25 for the frame assembly and a set of black, blank keys)


Now thats a bargain.
The only problem would be shipping to the UK.
Damn I wish I lived in America.
And are these keys the whole keys? Are they single piece or with removable caps?
Seems cheap either way.

Would save a lot of work drilling the old black plastic top plate and bolting it all back together.

Hmm. Very interesting.
Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3

Offline Chloe

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 12:03:59 »
Is that a four button trackball?

Offline iMav

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 14:17:03 »
Quote from: lam47;13266
And are these keys the whole keys? Are they single piece or with removable caps?

The solid black ones are only available in the one piece keys.  They have the ivory ones (labeled or blank) in either the single or two piece keys (removable key caps).

Offline iMav

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 15:23:01 »
I think I'll take my chances with the controller and order one frame assembly and keys to see how it turns out.  If it works out well, I'll pass it on to a geekhack member and then do the other three.  (these are brand new M5-2's...so with the new frame assembly, they will be brand new "on-the-ball" Unicomp boards...with buckling springs).

Offline lam47

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 19:52:59 »
Quote from: iMav;13293
I think I'll take my chances with the controller and order one frame assembly and keys to see how it turns out.  If it works out well, I'll pass it on to a geekhack member and then do the other three.  (these are brand new M5-2's...so with the new frame assembly, they will be brand new "on-the-ball" Unicomp boards...with buckling springs).


WOW! that would be nice :)
I like the sound of blank ivory keys!
Im going to have to get some cash together :)
Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3

Offline lowpoly

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 21:58:16 »
Quote from: Chloe;13276
Is that a four button trackball?

IIRC, the 3rd and 4th button are 'click and hold' to make dragging easier.

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline Chloe

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 23:13:37 »
Thanks lowpoly. It seems a strange place to put a trackball.

Offline iMav

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 23:27:38 »
There are four more buttons on the back side.  :)


Offline lam47

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 02 December 2008, 23:30:15 »
These look so cool.
Personally I think its more than worth while BSifying them.
And at $25 for the innards its cheap too.
GO IMAV!
Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3

Offline lam47

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 14 December 2008, 09:54:00 »
Any progress iMav. Looking forward to seeing it done :)
Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3

Offline iMav

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 14 December 2008, 22:55:13 »
Quote from: lam47;14726
Any progress iMav. Looking forward to seeing it done :)


I received two frame assemblies from Unicomp.  However, I am missing the appropriate connectors/cables, so I need to touch base with Unicomp on monday to see what is up.

I'll keep everyone posted.

Offline iMav

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 15:40:26 »
FYI, here are the frame assemblies I received from Unicomp:



Offline lowpoly

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 16:03:04 »
Those look very, very nice.

One ANSI, one ISO?

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline iMav

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 16:07:04 »
Quote from: lowpoly;14942
Those look very, very nice.

One ANSI, one ISO?

Yep!

Offline lam47

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"Quiet Touch" -> buckling springs
« Reply #32 on: Mon, 15 December 2008, 16:53:02 »
They look very cool with the blank key caps!
can't wait to see one all together.
Superb.
Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3