Would you suggest topre as a first mech/other switch keyboard?

[Air tree]

Well at first i was looking at the FC660M, it looks great and all i was going to order from qtan with a total of $138 and then i noticed how loved topre is here and i was wondering do you guys think it's worth $200?  I would be ordering from elitekeyboards.com since qtan doesn't carry it.

I just wanted to here some thoughts and opinions.




AND IF SOMEONE SAYS "ERGODOX" I WILL GO MAD! /All caps rage done.

[BlueBär]

...i noticed how loved topre is here...

I think it's rather that most Topre users often try to actively convince Cherry MX users to get a Topre board, whilst MX users don't really try to convince Topre users because they usually come from an MX board.

Switches are all about taste, some people like Topre, some like MX, some like Alps, some like buckling springs. It would be best to try some switches first before choosing one.

[mauri]

>Buys every word the topre cult says
>Doesn't listen when he's being told about the holy grail of keyboards; ergodox

:|

[Air tree]

>Buys every word the topre cult says
>Doesn't listen when he's being told about the holy grail of keyboards; ergodox

:|

Ergodox is $300 dollars plus.

[mauri]

>Buys every word the topre cult says
>Doesn't listen when he's being told about the holy grail of keyboards; ergodox

:|

Ergodox is $300 dollars plus.

Perfection never comes cheap

But on topic, If you don't want to learn hhkb layout, the leopold is the obvious choice for a topre 6-something-%

[Air tree]

And because i don't want to pay the HHKB price! at that  point the ergo dox seems like a good choice.

[terran5992]

Buy a topre

If you like it keep it

If you dont like it sell it to me

[Air tree]

Buy a topre

If you like it keep it

If you dont like it sell it to me

Don't you already have a topre? or are you just trying to expand your collection?

[thebeargentile]

For a first keyboard, I think it really depends.  If you've tried other mechanical keyboards, and kind of know what to expect from a mechanical board, Topre is a great option.  My HHKB is my favorite board, and I love my 87U.  Having said that, if you've never tried or used much of another mech board, Topre may or may not be a good first choice.  Topres are like rubber dome, perfected.  They feel fantastic... smooth yet tactile, awesome sound, etc., but (in my opinion at least) if you want to get the "mechanical" experience out of your first board, the Topre probably isn't the best choice.  While the quality typing experience is night and day over rubber dome to me, several of my friends who have tried my Topre boards have come away with "it's nice and all, but cost HOW MUCH???" As apposed to them trying my blues or browns and noticing difference enough that they understand the massive difference in board design. 

All that's to say that with all the talk of how awesome Topre is (and rightfully so), if it's your first mech board, it would be easy to build it up as this holy experience waiting to happen, and to be disappointed when you try the board for the first time.  It's totally a preference call, and Topre is definitely worth it IMO, but if you've not tried one before, and are looking to get into collecting, rather than getting just one awesome board to use, then I might start with a different switch. 

[Danule]

I would suggest you try out a few different switches out.  But I as well as many others do prefer topre over mx after having tried both.

[terran5992]

Buy a topre

If you like it keep it

If you dont like it sell it to me

Don't you already have a topre? or are you just trying to expand your collection?

One is never enough

[Grim Fandango]

Honestly it is so random and subjective, Topre is as good of a place to start as any. They do however feel quite different. I would at the very least make sure that I like the description of the switch, even though that says VERY little about how much you will like it.

[chill1217]

realforce 87u was the first keyboard i bought.  i got a wasd switch tester beforehand to test out switches.  wasn't really satisfied with any of them.  someone local on craigslist was selling a realforce, so went and tested it out.  then i bought it.

in my opinion, it is better to go topre first if you like it.  you'll always wonder "what if", and if you go the cherry mx route, you'll end up spending way more money in the end buying multiple keyboards rather than just one you really want.

[daerid]

If you're curious, try it out. You'll end up trying pretty much every type of switch anyways, so I wouldn't worry about it too much

[PadawanGeek]

I'd tried out MX Red, Black, Brown, Blue and Green before getting my first Topre. As others had stated, it's quite subjective, some like Topre, others don't....as to trying Topre as a first mechanical keyboard, sure, why not. You may end up liking it so much, you may not bother with Cherry switches. While I love my Topre keyboards, I still have more than enough love for Cherry Black, Green and Clear.

[aggiejy]

Wouldn't be a bad start.  Though, I usually recommend to friends that they start with a cheap board (used, or QFR) with browns.  To me, that's just a good starter switch.  Tactile, not too stiff, pleasant sound, and all-around good typer.  But of course, no three keyboard geeks would ever agree on that.

Edit: Also, the more I listen for it, the more it seems like the stereotypical keyboard sound effects in popular culture sound closest to non-clicking MX switch bottoming out.  (Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 for instance!)  I know that's random, but it's that satisfying sound that I was looking for when I first came to mechanical boards.  Nothing wrong with the clicks of blues, greens and buckling springs though.

[Michael]

...i noticed how loved topre is here...

I think it's rather that most Topre users often try to actively convince Cherry MX users to get a Topre board

Really? You have any examples of this? That's quite interesting to know....

[BlueBär]

Really? You have any examples of this? That's quite interesting to know....

The what makes topre so great for typing thread is a good example. Have you ever seen a thread like "What makes MX so much better than topre?" thread? I didn't. Also, when a newbie asks for switch advice, topre users often are like "topre is way better than MX" it seems. Not every topre user, but some really are.

It's OK to recommend a switch, but it's still a matter of taste.

[Michael]

Really? You have any examples of this? That's quite interesting to know....

The what makes topre so great for typing thread is a good example. Have you ever seen a thread like "What makes MX so much better than topre?" thread? I didn't. Also, when a newbie asks for switch advice, topre users often are like "topre is way better than MX" it seems. Not every topre user, but some really are.

It's OK to recommend a switch, but it's still a matter of taste.

It was a newbie asking a question, it wasn't a topre user making a thread. Sounds like you are just making a lot of baseless accusations 'it seems'.


In actuality, I can point out several threads where people are discussing topre, and mx users consistently barge in with 'overpriced rubber dome' etc comments.

[behappy]

Personally if I were you, I'd start with the cheaper alternative (Cherries), and see how you like those.

Once your budget allows, go for the Topre and compare - This way you'll truly appreciate the quality of a Topre and you can notice the differences for yourself.

Or perhaps you are one of the people who simply prefer Cherry boards. It's all preference, and my preference is best for last 

[1391406]

Really? You have any examples of this? That's quite interesting to know....

The what makes topre so great for typing thread is a good example. Have you ever seen a thread like "What makes MX so much better than topre?" thread? I didn't. Also, when a newbie asks for switch advice, topre users often are like "topre is way better than MX" it seems. Not every topre user, but some really are.

However, on average, Topre users also spend quite a bit more than the general mechanical keyboard consumer and are thusly more heavily invested in the product. Hence, some may be more likely to rationalize said investment by making such claims, in my opinion.

[BlueBär]

It was a newbie asking a question, it wasn't a topre user making a thread. Sounds like you are just making a lot of baseless accusations 'it seems'.

I count one "accusation", that is that some Topre users really try to convince other people to buy Topre. Of course, you are right, the opposite, saying Topre is horrible isn't better, since this is just opinion vs. opinion. And this is just what it feels like for me, if you don't agree with me, don't, I don't want to attack the general Topre user at all!

[Michael]

However, on average, Topre users also spend quite a bit more than the general mechanical keyboard consumer and are thusly more heavily invested in the product. Hence, some may be more likely to rationalize said investment by making such claims, in my opinion.

If you are comparing a base topre board to a base MX board, then yes, they are more expensive. If you are comparing your base topre board to the majority of people that customize their MX boards here, then that doesn't really hold water. Having owned several MX boards myself, I ended up spending wayyyy more on my MX stuff than the base cost of my topre board. When I factored in adding PBT caps, or custom SP keycap sets, etc. it came out to be much more. I think most topre users are happy with their keyboards out-of-the-box, in terms of switch feel, etc. I always felt the need to try to get my MX boards to feel 'better' by lubing, adding different springs, etc, etc. I ended up with the fact that my topre board just felt better and I didnt need to mess with it as much as I did my MX stuff.

[Hyde]

Well technically Topre Type Heaven is $150 right now so that really puts it in the same price range as some of the Cherry MX boards (for example, Filco, WASD Code... etc).

So the whole "start cheap" issue isn't that bad at this point BUT I still suggest you start with Cherry MX.  Like some users have said they feel more "mechanical" so you'd notice more difference coming from rubber dome.

I do own a Topre now while I do like it and it feels nice, but if it's your first board into mechanical it feels a bit too close to rubber dome.

If I were you I'd start with Cherry MX and work your way towards Topre. 

[Danule]

Really? You have any examples of this? That's quite interesting to know....

The what makes topre so great for typing thread is a good example. Have you ever seen a thread like "What makes MX so much better than topre?" thread? I didn't. Also, when a newbie asks for switch advice, topre users often are like "topre is way better than MX" it seems. Not every topre user, but some really are.

However, on average, Topre users also spend quite a bit more than the general mechanical keyboard consumer and are thusly more heavily invested in the product. Hence, some may be more likely to rationalize said investment by making such claims, in my opinion.

Not true. Ive spent way more customizing my mx boards than i had to spend on my realforce. 

[1391406]

However, on average, Topre users also spend quite a bit more than the general mechanical keyboard consumer and are thusly more heavily invested in the product. Hence, some may be more likely to rationalize said investment by making such claims, in my opinion.

If you are comparing a base topre board to a base MX board, then yes, they are more expensive. If you are comparing your base topre board to the majority of people that customize their MX boards here, then that doesn't really hold water. Having owned several MX boards myself, I ended up spending wayyyy more on my MX stuff than the base cost of my topre board. When I factored in adding PBT caps, or custom SP keycap sets, etc. it came out to be much more. I think most topre users are happy with their keyboards out-of-the-box, in terms of switch feel, etc. I always felt the need to try to get my MX boards to feel 'better' by lubing, adding different springs, etc, etc. I ended up with the fact that my topre board just felt better and I didnt need to mess with it as much as I did my MX stuff.

I don't know if most Topre owners are just as heavily invested in their MX boards, although I know at least some are.

[1391406]

Really? You have any examples of this? That's quite interesting to know....

The what makes topre so great for typing thread is a good example. Have you ever seen a thread like "What makes MX so much better than topre?" thread? I didn't. Also, when a newbie asks for switch advice, topre users often are like "topre is way better than MX" it seems. Not every topre user, but some really are.

However, on average, Topre users also spend quite a bit more than the general mechanical keyboard consumer and are thusly more heavily invested in the product. Hence, some may be more likely to rationalize said investment by making such claims, in my opinion.

Not true. Ive spent way more customizing my mx boards than i had to spend on my realforce. 

Do note the use of the word "some" in the statement "some may be more likely to rationalize said investment by making such claims". If you're more heavily invested in your MX boards, then you wouldn't be one of the "some" I was referring to. Further, I never said my statement applied to all Topre users that are heavily invested, either.

[eth0s]

However, on average, Topre users also spend quite a bit more than the general mechanical keyboard consumer and are thusly more heavily invested in the product. Hence, some may be more likely to rationalize said investment by making such claims, in my opinion.

If you are comparing a base topre board to a base MX board, then yes, they are more expensive. If you are comparing your base topre board to the majority of people that customize their MX boards here, then that doesn't really hold water. Having owned several MX boards myself, I ended up spending wayyyy more on my MX stuff than the base cost of my topre board. When I factored in adding PBT caps, or custom SP keycap sets, etc. it came out to be much more. I think most topre users are happy with their keyboards out-of-the-box, in terms of switch feel, etc. I always felt the need to try to get my MX boards to feel 'better' by lubing, adding different springs, etc, etc. I ended up with the fact that my topre board just felt better and I didnt need to mess with it as much as I did my MX stuff.

^ +1.  Topre is better value from the get go. 

Here is the MX keyboard experience:  you buy MX keyboard.  It's scratchy.  You lube it.  The keycaps are shiny ****ty ABS.  You replace keycaps with PBT.  It makes noise.  You do soft landing pad mod.  It pings.  You get custom Korean MX keyboard.  You spend entire weekend soldering switches and inhaling toxic solder fumes.  New super expensive aluminum Korean custom keyboard feels exactly the same as old, expensive plastic MX keyboard, just is much heavier.  Keys are still sticky/ scratchy.  Get custom 62g solid gold springs from Korea.  Still scratchy/ sticky.  Get Krytox super lube.  Forgot about the stickers.  Get those too.  This keyboard still sucks.  Maybe ergodox is the answer?  Get somebody to build you one this time, not messing around with soldering gun for a whole weekend again, especially since still getting nosebleeds and headaches from last time.   Keyboard still unsatisfactory.  What the hell, get a Topre?  Find nirvana.  Wait, it can't be that good.  Go back to MX.  Yep, Topre really is that good.  Experience second epiphany of ecstasy.  Punch self in face.  This is what I should've gotten in the first place, I could've saved over $1,500 (USD), if I had started with Topre instead of MX.  Why was I so stubbornly and obstinately opposed to Topre?  What is wrong with me?  People tried to warn me.  Am I a head-case?  Or self-destructive?  Have existential mini-crisis. 

Do you really want to do this?  Kierkegaard and Shopenauer would agree, it's just not worth the angst.  So would Freud, if he had learned to type. 

Nobody here has ever told a nub that Topre is better than MX.  Obviously the standard MX switch (of any color) is unsatisfactory.  Why else do MX owners all over the world feel the need to mod their MX keyboard?  It happens in Korea, USA, Germany, England, France, Italy, and even in New Jersey.  And the plain truth is that when you mod MX switches with special springs, lubes, stickers and PBT keycaps, what you are doing is trying to approximate the feeling of a Topre switch.  And in the end, although you can come close, you will never get an MX switch that feels as good as a Topre switch.  Is that bad?  No.  Is it good?  No.  It's simply a fact of life.  There is no good or bad or right or wrong.  There is only the feeling of oneness with cup rubber, and there is the near-approximation you can get from a heavily modded MX switch.  It has been proven time and again, by geekhacker after geekhacker.  But yet, there are so many of us who are so ensconced in our beliefs, that we are blind to the truth.  Many of us prefer to emote rather than to think.  “And that is how we are. By strength of will we cut off our inner intuitive knowledge from admitted consciousness. This causes a state of dread, or apprehension, which makes the blow ten times worse when it does fall.” ~ D.H. Lawrence.

[1391406]

Nobody here has ever told a nub that Topre is better than MX. Obviously the standard MX switch (of any color) is unsatisfactory.

However, you basically just suggested that Topre is better (ie. more satisfactory) than MX switches(because MX is "unsatisfactory"), did you not?

Why else do MX owners all over the world feel the need to mod their MX keyboard?

Some do, and some, such as myself, don't. I'm perfectly content with the way MX Blues feel. Some people, such as myself, buy keyboards with different switches simply because they enjoy a variety.

It happens in Korea, USA, Germany, England, France, Italy, and even in New Jersey.

Just as many, if not more, also mod their computers, among other things. Many don't.

And in the end, although you can come close, you will never get an MX switch that feels as good as a Topre switch.

And that's strictly your opinion.

[daerid]

The absolute polarization that happens whenever "Topre vs Cherry" comes up makes me sad. We all love keyboards, and ripping on other people for espousing their love for a particular switch doesn't actually do any good at all but turn the discussion into a mud-slinging fest.

And yes, telling somebody in a passive aggressive way that they're "rationalizing their purchase" because they've spent a certain amount of money (whether that purchase is Topre OR Cherry MX) is the same thing. Slinging mud is slinging mud, even if it's candy-coated.

[thebeargentile]

[...]Obviously the standard MX switch (of any color) is unsatisfactory.  Why else do MX owners all over the world feel the need to mod their MX keyboard?  It happens in Korea, USA, Germany, England, France, Italy, and even in New Jersey.  And the plain truth is that when you mod MX switches with special springs, lubes, stickers and PBT keycaps, what you are doing is trying to approximate the feeling of a Topre switch.  And in the end, although you can come close, you will never get an MX switch that feels as good as a Topre switch. 

Well, if we're going to be fair here, it's only because there isn't nearly as much that is (readily) user modable in Topres... mods often involve buying a second donor board, and several people do already do that, not to mention aluminum housings.  I'd be willing to bet that if EK got in some different springs/cups/made stickers, people would be all over it.  This is an enthusiast forum... your argument is like going to a Ford forum, and telling someone they were stupid for not buying a Ferrari to start with, because they put a Flowmaster on their Mustang.

[1391406]

And yes, telling somebody in a passive aggressive way that they're "rationalizing their purchase" because they've spent a certain amount of money (whether that purchase is Topre OR Cherry MX) is the same thing.

Not quite. That some people prefer one switch over another and claim it's better is a blanket generalization and a matter of opinion. Claiming that some people rationalize expensive purchases isn't. That's the difference. However, I never indicted all Topre users. I specifically said "some may be more likely to rationalize".

[daerid]

And yes, telling somebody in a passive aggressive way that they're "rationalizing their purchase" because they've spent a certain amount of money (whether that purchase is Topre OR Cherry MX) is the same thing.

Not quite. That some people prefer one switch over another and claim it's better is a blanket generalization and a matter of opinion. Claiming that some people rationalize expensive purchases isn't. That's the difference. However, I never indicted all Topre users. I specifically said "some may be more likely to rationalize".

While technically accurate, that's just nitpicking at this point. Since it is overly general (for what I can only assume is to avoid responsibility for naming somebody or some group specifically), it applies to practically everybody, it's less than useless for the conversation. Once you attach it to a specific group of people or person, then it becomes detrimental, as that group will always deny, defend, and retaliate. At that point the conversation just degenerates. It's human nature.

If somebody actually is rationalizing their purchase, pointing it out to them isn't likely going to help. It can be done, but requires quite a bit of finesse, which I fail to see routinely in these discussions.

[daerid]

PS: I also disagree whole heartedly with eth0s. His reasoning is faulty. Mankind has proven time and time and time and again that we will do something for absolutely no other reason than we can, and with rapidity that is directly proportional to the amount of difficulty required. We will see a custom Topre board. Maybe not around the corner, but it'll happen, because it can.

You see people customizing the crap out of their Cherry MX boards not because it's unsatisfactory, but merely because they can, and without too much effort.

[Hypersphere]

Yes. I wish a Topre had been my first mechanical. It might have saved me a lot of money in the long run. I tried a number of different Cherry mx boards and a Matias before finally getting a Leopold FC660C with uniformly weighted 45-gram Topre switches and realizing, at last, that a Topre-switch board was probably the best for me out of the universe of new keyboards that are currently being manufactured.

However, my other favorite is the IBM buckling spring. Keyboards with this switch are no longer being made, at least with the high quality, fit and finish seen in the IBM Model M or IBM SSK. This switch is very different from a Topre, but I like it equally well, for different reasons. My current favorite board is a 23-year-old IBM SSK. It wins over the Leopold FC660C mostly because of the splendid dye-sub PBT keycaps on the IBM. If I did not already have the IBM SSK, I would be very tempted to buy a RF 87U with 45-gram Topre switches.

I am hoping that Realforce or PFU will come out with a high-end 60-plus form factor Topre-switch board that would essentially be a second-generation Leopold FC660C or a HHKB Pro 3. My ideal mini-board would have dedicated arrow keys, excellent build quality, and dye-sub PBT keycaps like those on the gray/white HHKB Pro 2 or RF 87U. Until then, I will continue using the IBM SSK and rotating it with the Leopold FC660C once in a while.

[1391406]

And yes, telling somebody in a passive aggressive way that they're "rationalizing their purchase" because they've spent a certain amount of money (whether that purchase is Topre OR Cherry MX) is the same thing.

Not quite. That some people prefer one switch over another and claim it's better is a blanket generalization and a matter of opinion. Claiming that some people rationalize expensive purchases isn't. That's the difference. However, I never indicted all Topre users. I specifically said "some may be more likely to rationalize".

While technically accurate, that's just nitpicking at this point. Since it is overly general (for what I can only assume is to avoid responsibility for naming somebody or some group specifically), it applies to practically everybody, it's less than useless for the conversation.

Post-purchase rationalization isn't nitpicking(perhaps unless I was applying the term to all Topre owners); it's a very real bias that can apply to anyone who's purchased an expensive product. It naturally follows that since Topre is one of the most expensive mechanical keyboards, Topre owners may be more inclined to such bias. However, that isn't to say it couldn't equally apply to anyone who's spent a lot of money on any particular keyboard. I'm simply suggesting it's a potential factor, not an end-all explanation. If you disagree, then we can agree to disagree.

it applies to practically everybody

Sure, because everybody spends $250+ on a keyboard.

[daerid]

Post-purchase rationalization isn't nitpicking(perhaps unless I was applying the term to all Topre owners); it's a very real bias that can apply to anyone who's purchased an expensive product. It naturally follows that since Topre is one of the most expensive mechanical keyboards, Topre owners may be more inclined to such bias. However, that isn't to say it couldn't equally apply to anyone who's spent a lot of money on any particular keyboard. I'm simply suggesting it's a potential factor, not an end-all explanation. If you disagree, then we can agree to disagree.

I know all about it (having succumbed to it on more than one occasion). What I'm saying is that pointing it out doesn't do any good, and just puts peoples' backs up, leading to the degeneration of the discussion to the point where it often involves personal attacks.

Sure, because everybody spends $250+ on a keyboard.

By "everybody", I meant all participants in the discussion, which in this case are GeekHack members, who routinely spend that much or more on a keyboard (Topre or not). There are single MX boards out there that are more expensive than any Topre board made, and both sides are prone to post-purchase rationalization. Who gives a **** though? It's not your money, if somebody wants to spend it and then later justify it, how in the hell does it do anybody any good to try and convince that person they made a mistake? It doesn't. Let them be happy with what they purchased, rational or not.

[AKIMbO]

I'm a huge topre proponent, but I would never recommend topre as a first mech kb.  Reason being, it does feel close to a rubber dome (albeit a much superior typing experience).  I switch to a MX or ALPs keyboard once a week just to test my love for topre.  I end up back on my topre board within 30 minutes of the switch.  To me, that speaks volumes. 

[Air tree]

It would be a quite different entrance into the keyboard scene, I could always expand my keyboard usage to a model m next if i started with topre and then maybe get a cherry mx switch keyboard

[rowdy]

Nothing wrong with as a first mech, but be aware that depending on which layout you get, custom keycaps will be either difficult to obtain, or expensive.

[Air tree]

Nothing wrong with as a first mech, but be aware that depending on which layout you get, custom keycaps will be either difficult to obtain, or expensive.

If you where going to get a topre keyboard what keyboard would you get? I'm looking at the FC660C and from what i heard it's really expensive or almost impossible to get keycaps for it. I'm not too too turned off about that. But i'm just looking for a opinion.

[rowdy]

If you where going to get a topre keyboard what keyboard would you get? I'm looking at the FC660C and from what i heard it's really expensive or almost impossible to get keycaps for it. I'm not too too turned off about that. But i'm just looking for a opinion.

I already have HHKB Pro 2.

But I would get either Leopold FC660C (basically HHKB layout plus arrow keys) or RealForce TKL.

[Hypersphere]

If you where going to get a topre keyboard what keyboard would you get? I'm looking at the FC660C and from what i heard it's really expensive or almost impossible to get keycaps for it. I'm not too too turned off about that. But i'm just looking for a opinion.

I already have HHKB Pro 2.

But I would get either Leopold FC660C (basically HHKB layout plus arrow keys) or RealForce TKL.

Could you explain why? That is, why not get the HHKB Pro 2?

[1391406]

Post-purchase rationalization isn't nitpicking(perhaps unless I was applying the term to all Topre owners); it's a very real bias that can apply to anyone who's purchased an expensive product. It naturally follows that since Topre is one of the most expensive mechanical keyboards, Topre owners may be more inclined to such bias. However, that isn't to say it couldn't equally apply to anyone who's spent a lot of money on any particular keyboard. I'm simply suggesting it's a potential factor, not an end-all explanation. If you disagree, then we can agree to disagree.

I know all about it (having succumbed to it on more than one occasion). What I'm saying is that pointing it out doesn't do any good, and just puts peoples' backs up, leading to the degeneration of the discussion to the point where it often involves personal attacks.

I understand, however my comment wasn't random, and I think I've explicated my position sufficiently enough to defuse any tension among Topre proponents and deter potential thread devolvement, at least related to something I said, in my opinion. However, if everyone decided not to post comments that could potentially be taken out of context, how many people would post an opinion about anything at all?

Sure, because everybody spends $250+ on a keyboard.

By "everybody", I meant all participants in the discussion, which in this case are GeekHack members, who routinely spend that much or more on a keyboard (Topre or not).

Okay, but not all participants in this discussion have spent upwards of $250 on a keyboard. Nor have all Geekhack members, for that matter.

Who gives a **** though? It's not your money, if somebody wants to spend it and then later justify it, how in the hell does it do anybody any good to try and convince that person they made a mistake? It doesn't. Let them be happy with what they purchased, rational or not.

I could care less how much money someone spends on anything and I've never knocked anyone for being happy about a purchase. That wasn't the context with which I made my comments. I was responding to BlueBär's post and was suggesting that post-purchase bias may be a factor given the context of his comments. It's something I personally keep in mind when reading tall claims, critiques of competing products, or rave reviews about practically anything I consider expensive, but that's me. If you don't, well, good for you. No one was attacking anyone, though. Take my comments for what they were: a speculative observation.

And for the record, I don't have a problem with Topre. I don't have a problem with Topre owners. I've looked into purchasing a Realforce 103U, myself, because I think it's a snazzy looking board. When I have the extra cash, assuming I can find one, I might take the plunge.

[Air tree]

So if i go with a topre keyboard in the end it will either be the realforce 87U tenkeyless http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?pid=rf_se1700 coming in at $250. or the leopold FC660C http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,compact&pid=fc660c coming in at $200

[rowdy]

If you where going to get a topre keyboard what keyboard would you get? I'm looking at the FC660C and from what i heard it's really expensive or almost impossible to get keycaps for it. I'm not too too turned off about that. But i'm just looking for a opinion.

I already have HHKB Pro 2.

But I would get either Leopold FC660C (basically HHKB layout plus arrow keys) or RealForce TKL.

Could you explain why? That is, why not get the HHKB Pro 2?

The layout is a bit too radical for many people, especially using Windows or, to a lesser degree, Mac.

The one thing I really miss on mine is the arrow keys.  Hence FC660x would be an ideal next step (for me).

[1391406]

So if i go with a topre keyboard in the end it will either be the realforce 87U tenkeyless http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?pid=rf_se1700 coming in at $250. or the leopold FC660C http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,compact&pid=fc660c coming in at $200

This might come in handy:

[daerid]

@1391406: My statements weren't necessarily directed at you specifically. I was mainly using your post as a jumping off point to address a few things. My posts were directed at the "impersonal you", as it were.

[TimIsABat]

Make a magic Topre ergodox!

JK.

I can't really vouch for Topre just yet, but I would say go for a QFR or a Poker II if you really want that 60% amazingness that I have come to love (seriously love the Poker layout because once you adapt to it...efficiency and portability is amazing). If you are willing to spend mad cash on a board then go for a Topre board. Save money = FC660C. Drop some dough for high quality = HHKB Pro 2 or Realforce depending on size and learning a new layout.

I have been using Cherry MX Reds and buckling springs on my Model M for a while now, and I want to own atleast one Topre board of high quality that I would use a lot (HHKB or FC660C for me since I am always on the go).

[Air tree]

Make a magic Topre ergodox!

JK.

I can't really vouch for Topre just yet, but I would say go for a QFR or a Poker II if you really want that 60% amazingness that I have come to love (seriously love the Poker layout because once you adapt to it...efficiency and portability is amazing). If you are willing to spend mad cash on a board then go for a Topre board. Save money = FC660C. Drop some dough for high quality = HHKB Pro 2 or Realforce depending on size and learning a new layout.

I have been using Cherry MX Reds and buckling springs on my Model M for a while now, and I want to own atleast one Topre board of high quality that I would use a lot (HHKB or FC660C for me since I am always on the go).

I'll look into the poker II, It looks pretty good and it's cheap! (compared to a FC660C)