Author Topic: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?  (Read 8385 times)

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Offline xeon123

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What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 04:17:36 »
Hi,

If thorpe keyboards use a rubber dome and a spring, is it still durable?

What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?

Offline mauri

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 04:19:16 »
Both will last until the end of times
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Offline Emospence

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 04:45:08 »
Both will last until the end of times

That's exaggerating..

Just a little.
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Offline Emospence

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 04:45:33 »
Also, *Topre
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Offline zoolzoo

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 04:56:24 »
i hink thorpe
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Offline ch_123

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 05:12:36 »
Cherry MX are rated for 50 million actuations. Topres were rated for 30 million, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that they bumped up that figure to 50 million as well.

Offline terran5992

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 06:06:48 »
Cherry mx losses their feel, thorpes get more tactile the longer you use it

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Offline TheSoulhunter

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 07:20:24 »
Cherry MX -> Slider wears (smoother but perhap losing some tactility) and spring resistance reduces (keypress feels lighter)
Topre -> Never used a really old Topre board, but as rubber tends to get harder over time the resistance and tactility should raise

Offline Danule

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 07:42:58 »
THORPE.
45g Brown Brown Blue

Offline Moosecraft

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 07:43:25 »
ALL HAIL THORPE
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Offline badcop

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 07:45:48 »

mfw reading this thread
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 07:51:28 »
toprah?

Offline SeriouSSpotS

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 07:55:15 »
I don't know
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Offline Krigo

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 08:02:18 »
I've had my Topre board since 49 BCE. True story.

Offline Hyde

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 08:13:04 »
Topre -> Never used a really old Topre board, but as rubber tends to get harder over time the resistance and tactility should raise

I thought the rubber also gets softer as it was broken in.  I wonder if it would cancel each other out lol.

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Offline TheSoulhunter

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 08:13:20 »
35121-0

Offline Thimplum

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 08:29:33 »
beamspring.
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Offline eth0s

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 08:32:50 »
I would choose Thorpe over Sherry any day, all day, urr day.
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 10:06:52 »
toprah?

I am going to refer to them this way from now on LOL.

Offline Neo.X

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 10:17:47 »
You see people here looking for vintage black or vintage brown, did you ever see someone looking for vintage topre?  :)
All those keyboards will be lost in time....

Offline davkol

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 10:25:06 »

Offline keymaster

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 10:25:52 »
Both MX and Topre will most likely outlast the user's need to use one particular board. Most of us have more than one board here, so it is unlikely that any of our boards will reach the 50million+ milestone.

Offline Neo.X

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 10:46:01 »
The Topre rubber dome degrades over time.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47440.msg1011377#msg1011377

Does this degrade occur because of use (typing) or just because of time? :eek:

I have some keyboards that I just want to keep them for collection (mx and topre). If they degrade after couple years, I might just sell them.
All those keyboards will be lost in time....

Offline davkol

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 10:49:18 »
I have very little long-term personal experience with Topre (it's not my cup of tea), but I'd guess stiffness might change just due to aging, while the other things depend on use.

Offline Thimplum

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 10:53:56 »
Honestly, I know that people are going to hate me for this. At it's core, Topre is based on a rubber dome switch. There's a bunch of other stuff in there too, but what provides the feel and tactility is a rubber dome. So it won't last a lot longer than a standard dome keyboard.
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Offline esoomenona

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 10:55:42 »
Honestly, I know that people are going to hate me for this. At it's core, Topre is based on a rubber dome switch. There's a bunch of other stuff in there too, but what provides the feel and tactility is a rubber dome. So it won't last a lot longer than a standard dome keyboard.

Actually, it will, because what tends to fail first in a rubber dome keyboard is the membrane pressing against the PCB. Topre circumvents that with the use of the capacitive springs.

Offline davkol

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 10:58:17 »
That's true. Topre switches ought to register as long as Cherry MX, which is about 50 million times. However, that doesn't say anything about feel.

Offline Thimplum

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 11:00:02 »
The feel is what I was getting at. The feel will degrade with the rubber.
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Offline Neo.X

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 11:07:52 »
The feel is what I was getting at. The feel will degrade with the rubber.

The feel is the key, I don't want to show my children my collection of those fancy keyboards, and they feel like sh..... :(

All those keyboards will be lost in time....

Offline Thimplum

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 11:38:57 »
Topre will probably last a very long time before you get a noticeable difference, though.
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Offline natas206

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 12:42:50 »
Jim Thorpe - founder of the Thorpe keyboard




Offline rowdy

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:17:26 »
Is is likely that the other parts of the keyboard - case, keycaps, even plate (e.g. rust) would deteriorate long before the switches died?

And anyway,m for MX at least individual switches can be replaced if they fail.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline ch_123

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:22:53 »
Honestly, I know that people are going to hate me for this. At it's core, Topre is based on a rubber dome switch. There's a bunch of other stuff in there too, but what provides the feel and tactility is a rubber dome. So it won't last a lot longer than a standard dome keyboard.

I'm going to take the bait here.

It depends on what you mean by "last". If you remove the rubber dome from a Topre switch, it will still work (at least in principle, the spring may not stay in place in practice) so the switch will continue to actuate for longer than a membrane contact keyboard which is far more prone to age and contamination, and possibly even longer than a metal leaf contact switch like the Cherry MX. So rubber dome wear has little effect on the mechanical reliability of the switch.

If you mean last in terms of "How long will it remain enjoyable to type on" then you have a point. However, this also applies to tactile MX switches. Ever type on a worn out Brown Cherry keyboard? Feels almost linear. Old Blue Cherry boards aren't that great either.
« Last Edit: Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:52:18 by ch_123 »

Offline rowdy

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #33 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:24:48 »
Honestly, I know that people are going to hate me for this. At it's core, Topre is based on a rubber dome switch. There's a bunch of other stuff in there too, but what provides the feel and tactility is a rubber dome. So it won't last a lot longer than a standard dome keyboard.

I'm going to take the bait here.

It depends on what you mean by "last". If you remove the rubber dome from a Topre switch, it will still work (at least in principle, the spring may not stay in place in practice) so the switch will continue to actuate for longer than a membrane contact keyboard which is far more prone to age and contamination.

If you mean last in terms of "How long will it remain enjoyable to type on" then you have a point. However, this also applies to tactile MX switches. Ever type on a worn out Brown Cherry keyboard? Feels almost linear. Old Blue Cherry boards aren't that great either.

But old MX linear (especially blacks) are wonderful to type on :)
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline MKULTRA

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #34 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:28:26 »

Offline ch_123

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #35 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:29:36 »
Right, but linear switches tend to remain viable for much longer than tactile switches because tactile elements wear out (think of all the friction wearing those little plastic bumps out) quicker than springs.

Offline rowdy

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #36 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:42:03 »
Right, but linear switches tend to remain viable for much longer than tactile switches because tactile elements wear out (think of all the friction wearing those little plastic bumps out) quicker than springs.

That's what I was thinking.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline sth

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #37 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:43:45 »
Thorpe RealFroshe
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Offline rowdy

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:45:50 »
Thorpe HKBB?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline The_Beast

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:51:01 »
Topper is better than Thorpe!
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Offline sth

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 19:04:24 »
LepoLoad 666Capatown
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Offline davkol

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #41 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 19:46:38 »
Kappa.

Offline eth0s

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #42 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 19:55:01 »
All I know is, Thorpe allows you to enjoy the good feeling of cupness with one rubber.

Sherry keyswitches wear out over time.  I have a Sherry keyboard from 1994, and the Enter key stopped working some time ago.  Also not all of the blues still click on that keyboard.  Did I say Sherry blues?  I meant Sherry bewbs.
« Last Edit: Thu, 12 September 2013, 19:56:44 by eth0s »
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Offline PointyFox

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #43 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 20:21:25 »

Offline Parak

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #44 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 20:32:21 »
beamspring.
ho ho ho

All other things being equal, is actually less durable and way harder to maintain than capacitive buckling springs, for various reasons :(

I had to wrap mine in poly..

Offline eth0s

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #45 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 21:12:52 »
Show Image


Thorpe: "enjoy your feeling of cupness with one rubber."

It says so on the box.

On geekhack.org, they say Thorpe switches feel like you're typing on a bewb of clouds.
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Offline abdulmuhsee

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #46 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 21:34:03 »
Damn, so the guy misspelled Topre.  Talk about beating a joke into the ground.

To answer your question, don't buy a keyboard because of how long you think it'll last.  If you're going by the manufacturer rated actuations, whether it be 30 million or 50 million, the board would hypothetically last for decades or even a century or more (i.e. - don't believe the BS actuation ratings).  You probably won't even be that into mechanical keyboards by the time it's supposed to expire.

But some other part in the keyboard will likely wear away before the actual switches, and you'll spill a glass of orange juice in there long before that.  Get the keyboard based on what you think you'll enjoy right now in the present.

Offline Kagusaki Wolf

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #47 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 21:50:33 »
I would say in whole, cherry keyboards will last longer.  It's easy and cheap to find replacement switches if one wears out :3
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Offline meiosis

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #48 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 21:52:55 »
I think MX lasts longer only because it's quite easy to replace the switches. Both pcb's of Topre and MX probably have similar lifespans, but Topre is a pain to change out the rubber pads
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Offline Hyde

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Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
« Reply #49 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 21:56:48 »
Didn't some guy already did a hypothetical situation where if you press on a single key 1000 times a day, it will take 82 years until you hit the 30 million keystrokes and 137 years until you hit the 50 million keystrokes.

Chances are you won't hit a single key 1000 times a day and realistically geekhackers will buy several keyboards per year anyway so statistically speaking you'll never hit that mark.

So I say go enjoy your oneness with cup rubber and pop some Cherry after.

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