Cherry Blues trial

[xsphat]

I'm on an M10 a member here loaned me for a couple weeks so I can try out the blue switches. I've actually owned one of these before but I messed it up before I really got a good feel for the switches and I threw it away. Temper temper.

So now here I am, all grown up and trying this switch again. It's been only two days, but so far so far so good. I was already able to write fiction on it last night, and that is a first: I never write fiction on keyboards on the first day, the first week, sometimes never. I ended up writing way over my standard 2000 on this M10 and I really like the blues. This keyboard is NOT for me, it's too damn big, but a Filco or DSI mini with blue switches would be perfect.

These switches are the lightest of the clickies by far and the noise is higher pitched than the others, but in a way it sounds more like a mechanical typewriter, which for me is a huge plus. Another plus is that, even though this is not he most solidly constructed keyboard, these blues are quiet compared to the white Alps switches but still loud enough.

I'm gonna type only on this keyboard for the entire two weeks, and I think i am going to really want a Filco tenkeyless with Cherry blues in the very near future. If I have trouble getting that one, then I might just go for the DSI. As it turns out, those big wings on the sides of that keyboard would make it fit on me desk better, but the Filco is cooler.

So at the end of the day, I got out all my main keyboards and dry-typed on them to see how I felt about each one, and the results surprised me. First I got out the MK96 — The Alps felt a lot tougher to push and more snappy, plus I bottomed out way more than on the blues. Just loud as f*ck. Then I got out my Model M — too plasticy feeling, not enough action or life in the keys. The AT101 — no matter what, I always hate how this keyboard feels like it stops the stroke early (I think we can all agree this sucks ...) so I didn't like it either.

So of all the keyboards above, I didn't like any of them right away after the Cherry blues. Then, for my last trick, I got out the Topre 86. I figured I would think it sucked like the rest but then I typed on it and it felt sooooo good! Just like typing on pillows in the clouds. I can go back and forth with any clicky keyboard and the Topre because the feels, while completely different, seem to compliment each other somehow. The Topre 86 just rocks, nothing else to it but that. Worth every penny.

So for now, I am thinking I need two main keyboards for my final writing rotation — the Topre 86 and the Filco tenkeyless with Cherry blues. I'll always keep a Model M, but it will always be stored under my MK96.

[bhtooefr]

Lightest of the clickies? Just what I'm looking for.

(Oh crap. 1000 posts. )

[xsphat]

This may suit you then, but the numpad kills it for me.

[bhtooefr]

I don't mind numpads at all, so...

[xsphat]

Do you use it with the feet down or up?

[bhtooefr]

I don't even use a desk, usually. But, when I do, I don't normally use the feet.

[iMav]

I've always loved the Cherry blues (as is well documented here)...they are my favorite key switch.  However, I am so spoiled by the HHKB layout that I don't know if I can ever use a Cherry blue-equipped 'board again as my primary.

[bhtooefr]

I think ExpressPCB could make you a run of custom PCBs to make an HHKB layout Cherry blue board...

[wellington1869]

Sounds like a plan, XS.  I usually keep the feet up too (I mean I dont deploy them) by the way, though thats probably a function of my seating position more than anything.
Blues are definitely the lightest clickies. They're great for speed and the sound definitely is pleasant.
Prolly wont make much difference but the DAS by the way was higher pitched than the M10 (probably noticeable only if you have them side by side though). Materials as always will make a slight difference. I think tho the consensus is that M10 is on the lower-toned side for blues. I liked the M10 sound a lot, it really is typewriter-y.

[bigpook]

I don't get it, according to specs it's topre (45g) < cherrry brown < cherry blue. I have the topre's and ergonomic browns and I find this to be true.

Yes but the browns and topres are not clicky. So that kind of rules them out.
I agree with xsphat that the blues are the lightest clicky switch out there. If there is another I am not aware of it (which is entirely possible).

[bigpook]

what do you mean about the model m being too plasticy? and not enough action or life in the keys?

Just curious.

The topres do feel like typing on "pillows in the clouds". They are the smoothest keys I have yet to type on. Like a Buick with ultra-glide suspension. Man, thats smooth.

[Chloe]

Note that Cherry themselves call the browns clicky.

Where do they say this?

[bigpook]

Ah, ok. How's this defined, by leaf? Note that Cherry themselves call the browns clicky.

Have you typed on a cherry brown? Trust me, they are not clicky. : )

They do have a tactile bump that can be felt and even then it is very light.
These are in no way bad things, they just happen to be very light switches.
They will make a noise if you bottom out though but thats about it.

[Chloe]

If I'm not mistaken (why don't they just name the colors?), at the bottom the switch described as "MX with click tactile feel ergonomic" equals the browns.

It would not be the first time a Cherry datasheet had the wrong information. If you look to the right, the browns (MX1A-Gxxx) are soft tactile feel, and the blues (MX1a-3xxx) are click tactile. This is more consistent with descriptions in other Cherry datasheets.

The Cherry browns in my Compaq MX 11800 don't click. If I press the key very slowly I can hear the plastic friction of the tactile bump.

[bigpook]

Yeah I have two compaq 18100's. Well, that just makes my curiosity bigger, because it does click, but not as you define it. So what's the click? The sound of the leaf being pressed? Or unpressed? And what should I call the sounds from the HHKB and 18100 and what causes them? Funnily I like the sound of the HHKB best. The Model M's sound makes me feel like a man (don't laugh), but the HHKB sound just gives me a hard on (stop that!). It only makes a sound when unpressed though, and I'm not sure what makes the sound - is it the plastic??

Where's the click?
I would guess it is the leaf being pressed, or in a BS key the spring actually buckling. I have a Filco mini with the white XM switches. From taking it apart and playing with it I know the click comes from the leaf.
As for the Topre, good question. I have my HHKB boxed so I can't be sure but it did make a thock thock sound. I agree, I think the sound of the HHKB reminds me most of what a keyboard should sound like ( if only because of the Calvin and Hobbes comic strip).
I am sure others will correct me but I think the Topre has a spring and rubber dome which gives it its feel.The sound I think come from the bottom of the key hitting the plate.

[Chloe]

Yeah I noticed that. I also notice you're carefully not giving the answers to the knowledge I trully seek So it's leaf sound/bumb then that defines true clickyness? This guy calls the browns "light clicky"..hmm.

That would be your interpretation, not my intention. I missed some posts earlier in this thread.

I think the click in Cherry blues are produced by the two plastic parts that make up the stem hitting each other:
http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_cherry_mx.htm

In ALPS, the click is produced by an bump on the leaf striking the switch housing.

Regarding "light clicky", I think it is subjective. One could say the Cherry browns and MLs are clicky based on the sound they make when bottomed out, it is kind of clicky sounding compared to rubber domes. When you type on true clicky switches there is this noise (if you bottom out) and the click, which occurs around midway in the switch travel.

[bigpook]

Yeah I noticed that. I also notice you're carefully not giving the answers to the knowledge I trully seek So it's leaf sound/bumb then that defines true clickyness? This guy calls the browns "light clicky"..hmm.

I can do this.

This is so like Kung Fu. The answers you seek, are there before you grasshopper.

[bigpook]

Interesting. I wrote this somewhere here before.. if you press a HHKB key and keep it pressed, and then quickly unpress it (move your finger up swiftly), you get this *THUNK* sound in all its glory. Someone noticed left shift was loudest (it's true), this would suggest the keycap is in play.

IIRC, the thock thock comes into play when you are typing at speed. It is a great sound, dang. I need to break out the HHKB....

[sandy55]

Ah, ok. How's this defined, by leaf? Note that Cherry themselves call the browns clicky.

Could you point me a source of their statement?

[xsphat]

Clicky switches click when the key is actuated.

[iMav]

Ah, ok. How's this defined, by leaf? Note that Cherry themselves call the browns clicky.

At least here at geekhack, we define "clicky" as audible feedback.  "tactile" is physical/feel feedback.

[bhtooefr]

iMav: Should we extend that to mechanical auditory feedback?

Because otherwise, you're allowing keyboards with speakers in them.

(And, I think it's actually possible to have a clicky, linear keyboard, depending on how you do the click leaf.)

[xsphat]

This naming thing getting way out of hand. Soon we'll have to list every part of every thing we mention or no one will listen to any of us. So if the key switch makes a click sound intentionally, it's a clicky switch. And I think a linear switch could be clicky as well.

[xsphat]

I want some Cherry sploshy switches in my next keyboard.

We are making this crap too hard — this isn't a D&D or Star Trek forum for the love of sh*t.

[bigpook]

I want some Cherry sploshy switches in my next keyboard.

We are making this crap too hard — this isn't a D&D or Star Trek forum for the love of sh*t.

Actually, it kind of is.
What other site out there goes to the level that we do when it comes to keyboards.
We obsess over keyboards. Think about it.
Even in a large group of nerds and geeks we would stand out, noticeably even.
You will know we have gone too far when we start dressing up as our favorite keyboards and go running around in the woods.

[Chloe]

You will know we have gone too far when we start dressing up as our favorite keyboards and go running around in the woods.

:lol:

[xsphat]

You will know we have gone too far when we start dressing up as our favorite keyboards and go running around in the woods.

I think I read about someone in the Netherlands doing just that thing ...

[xsphat]

xsphat is just a bit pissed about all the high schoolers bashing that apple keyboard.

What Apple keyboard?

[bigpook]

I go to the woods, and then start to hug my keyboards - and then I feel one with nature and the forces of the universe. Does this count?

Sadly, I see that we are already at that point : )

[iMav]

iMav: Should we extend that to mechanical auditory feedback?

Because otherwise, you're allowing keyboards with speakers in them.

(And, I think it's actually possible to have a clicky, linear keyboard, depending on how you do the click leaf.)

The individual KEY SWITCH makes the sound.  If a manufacturer wants to attach a speaker to each keyswitch to provide auditory feedback, I'd be happy to call it "clicky".  

clicky/non-clicky, tactile/non-tactile are pretty straight forward.

[xsphat]

I don't think the shoes make the nerd. I think that if someone has a full working knowledge of the principles behind a transwarp conduit or think that they will someday build their own lightsaber to complete their training, then they are nerds. At least keyboards are real and used. Also, if your best come-on line to girls has something to do your +15 magic staff of pleasure, then you most likely don't use it too often and are a nerd.

[xsphat]

I'm not getting sh*tty or anything, I think every one is a nerd in some thing and hobbies are important, but talking about this stuff to people who aren't into it at all is where people get the label nerd from.

I know this guy from years ago, and he used to be alright but then some chick got to him and really screwed his head all up. He was always really into to Star Wars and D&D, but he kept it to himself and only talked about it to other people who are into it. But then this girl worked him over and he went nuts. Now all he talks about is his level whatever wizard and Yoda's relations with the Wookies. He is now in the category of a "town crazy." Everyone sees him as insane and avoid him for that very reason.

And likewise, if I sat around with my Topre 86 in one hand and my wang in the other, sure people would call the cops. But if I sat and talked about keyboards in the real world like we do here, soon I would be in with the town crazies in social standings.

And you did speak the truth when you kind of said none of it maters. It really doesn't. Everyone needs an "internal outlet" to obsess over. And it is a very personal thing, and no one has just one.

[bhtooefr]

See, I've tried immersing myself in my hobbies more, and picking more up, just to try to distract myself from a girl. (That I can't have, because she's taken.)

Didn't work.

[iMav]

See, I've tried immersing myself in my hobbies more, and picking more up, just to try to distract myself from a girl. (That I can't have, because she's taken.)

"Taken" as in married?  Or taken as in dating someone else?

And, does she know about how you feel?

[xsphat]

GeekHack Love Connection!

[bhtooefr]

Taken as in engaged, and has a son with said fiance.

And, she does know about how I feel. (Not only that, but she's told me she doesn't want to be with him, and DEFINITELY doesn't want to get married to him, to the point that she set the wedding date to be very vague and way off in the future on purpose, and told me that she plans on pushing that back the closer it comes.)

But, she's also said that she won't leave him, because she thinks her son will be better off if she stays. (Never mind that he probably won't be...)

But, we haven't talked since June, so...

[bigpook]

Taken as in engaged, and has a son with said fiance.

And, she does know about how I feel. (Not only that, but she's told me she doesn't want to be with him, and DEFINITELY doesn't want to get married to him, to the point that she set the wedding date to be very vague and way off in the future on purpose, and told me that she plans on pushing that back the closer it comes.)

But, she's also said that she won't leave him, because she thinks her son will be better off if she stays. (Never mind that he probably won't be...)

But, we haven't talked since June, so...

It isn't my business and you can tell me to go pound. But I think you should move on. That situation you describe is never going to get pretty.

[bhtooefr]

Oh, I know it's not. (Unless they break up, and have been broken up for a while, and it's gonna take something downright nasty for that to happen, I suspect.)

And that's what I've been trying to do for a year or so now, and it was her idea (in May or so) that we break contact so that I could maybe move on. (I think she also might have been confused herself about what she wanted. I mean, she made it painfully obvious that she wanted me, and couldn't say that she wasn't interested... and that wasn't helping me at all, and she realized that by trying to directly help me get over her, she was actually making things worse for me.)

[xsphat]

There are plenty more women out there.

[bhtooefr]

But sometimes I don't even want to bother looking, I don't like most people, and... I'm not sure that I could connect with anyone as well as I connected to her.

(Of course, while I would never say something as corny as "she's one in a million," she said "if I'm one in a million, that means there's 6,000 others out there like me.")

[bigpook]

If someone made that comment to me I would get annoyed.
Its not that there are 6000 potential partners out there that is the point, she IS the point, the other 6000 don't matter.
Men are hunters, we focus on the prize and pursue it till it the end. Women have a broader gaze, the whole horizon is in their vision. Makes life interesting.

[bhtooefr]

And, see, that's what was great - somehow, our brains were wired almost the same, so we could understand each other almost perfectly (we scared each other that way,) but our perspectives were wildly different.

[bigpook]

And, see, that's what was great - somehow, our brains were wired almost the same, so we could understand each other almost perfectly (we scared each other that way,) but our perspectives were wildly different.

Yeah, that sucks. But the end game is she has a kid, and she is choosing the father even though she doesn't want to. Your left hanging in the breeze.
Sorry man, there is no happiness here.

[bhtooefr]

Unfortunately, moving on is a hell of a lot easier said than done...

[bhtooefr]

So, about those Cherry blues...

[bigpook]

I like the cherry blues, not so crazy about the M10 though.

[wellington1869]

weird font changes when i post.

"click" = auditory click
"clack"= topping or bottoming clack
"bump" = tactile feedback

[xsphat]

weird font changes when i post.

"click" = auditory click
"clack"= topping or bottoming clack
"bump" = tactile feedback

Can you say vocab page in the wiki?

[xsphat]

you know, the blues might be able to replace the Alps but the Topre stays. I love this Topre 86U, and I don't see an end to that anytime soon.

[iMav]

Can you say vocab page in the wiki?

Let us know when you've completed it!

"click" = auditory click
"clack"= topping or bottoming clack
"bump" = tactile feedback

Using a word to describe itself is bad form, no?