How do you feel about auction threads?

[AKIMbO]

Auctions are the bane of geekhack classifieds imo.  They should be banned as should raffles.

Why don't you like raffles?  Usually they donate to GH

Legality reasons.

[sth]

 

[Michael]

Auctions are the bane of geekhack classifieds imo.  They should be banned as should raffles.

Why don't you like raffles?  Usually they donate to GH

Legality reasons.

Oh really?

[AKIMbO]

Auctions are the bane of geekhack classifieds imo.  They should be banned as should raffles.

Why don't you like raffles?  Usually they donate to GH

Legality reasons.

Oh really?

I'm talking about raffles where you have to buy in. For example, pay a dollar and get entered into the drawing for a prize.  It subjects gh to several laws, tax complications, etc.

What you did was a giveaway....a totally separate type of transaction.

[Michael]

I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.


Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.

[MKULTRA]

I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.


Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.

[keymaster]

I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.


Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.

Rules in regards to clacks? What do you have in mind?

[Michael]

I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.


Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.

Rules in regards to clacks? What do you have in mind?

Rules set in place for auctions. Such as setting up a formatted way to post an auction. No private bidding, etc.

[keymaster]

I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.


Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.

Rules in regards to clacks? What do you have in mind?

Rules set in place for auctions. Such as setting up a formatted way to post an auction. No private bidding, etc.

I don't think private bidding changes anything. If people are allowed to sell novelty keycaps for a massive price hike, they will do it by any means available to them: auction, PM, or even just straight-up demanding $150 in a sale thread. The real issue behind the "butthurt" is the fact that the obnoxious resale prices are allowed. The method which they are sold through really doesn't matter, but auctions seem to be creator of the highest prices.

[Michael]

I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.


Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.

Rules in regards to clacks? What do you have in mind?

Rules set in place for auctions. Such as setting up a formatted way to post an auction. No private bidding, etc.

I don't think private bidding changes anything. If people are allowed to sell novelty keycaps for a massive price hike, they will do it by any means available to them: auction, PM, or even just straight-up demanding $150 in a sale thread. The real issue behind the "butthurt" is the fact that the obnoxious resale prices are allowed. The method which they are sold through really doesn't matter, but auctions seem to be creator of the highest prices.

Market demand drives price. It's the same for any economy. If someone asks 500 for a clack, and nobody buys it - well hey, guess that's not the market price.
Also, auctions with only 100 dollar differentiation between buy it now and reserve are a prime example of people not knowing how to make an auction. A regulation for that difference can be set.
But overall, getting rid of auctions is NOT going to change the price of clacks. Instead of maybe getting it for a lower price, you are going to see them at the highest price in [FS].


Again - getting rid of auctions is not the answer, its a cop-out for lacking the ability to come up with a better solution.

[keymaster]

I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.


Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.

Rules in regards to clacks? What do you have in mind?

Rules set in place for auctions. Such as setting up a formatted way to post an auction. No private bidding, etc.

I don't think private bidding changes anything. If people are allowed to sell novelty keycaps for a massive price hike, they will do it by any means available to them: auction, PM, or even just straight-up demanding $150 in a sale thread. The real issue behind the "butthurt" is the fact that the obnoxious resale prices are allowed. The method which they are sold through really doesn't matter, but auctions seem to be creator of the highest prices.

Market demand drives price. It's the same for any economy. If someone asks 500 for a clack, and nobody buys it - well hey, guess that's not the market price.
Also, auctions with only 100 dollar differentiation between buy it now and reserve are a prime example of people not knowing how to make an auction. A regulation for that difference can be set.
But overall, getting rid of auctions is NOT going to change the price of clacks. Instead of maybe getting it for a lower price, you are going to see them at the highest price in [FS].


Again - getting rid of auctions is not the answer, its a cop-out for lacking the ability to come up with a better solution.

The market principles for "rare" items such as CCs don't have to apply to our growing community here. We have the power to enforce it as long as people want this change to occur. You're right, banning auctions isn't an optimal solution, but it's the one I'm willing to settle for. Why? Because how many people here will agree to simply forbid overpricing CCs, especially those right after a CC lottery? Those looking to profit off their fellow members will be the most vocal opponents of such measures.

Perhaps I'm too idealistic. Maybe my ideas aren't realistic since people unknowingly bring their greed and selfishness here from the outside world and refuse to change. I guess I will take it upon myself to make a small change and not sell to those who make immense profits off other members.

[Michael]

I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.


Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.

Rules in regards to clacks? What do you have in mind?

Rules set in place for auctions. Such as setting up a formatted way to post an auction. No private bidding, etc.

I don't think private bidding changes anything. If people are allowed to sell novelty keycaps for a massive price hike, they will do it by any means available to them: auction, PM, or even just straight-up demanding $150 in a sale thread. The real issue behind the "butthurt" is the fact that the obnoxious resale prices are allowed. The method which they are sold through really doesn't matter, but auctions seem to be creator of the highest prices.

Market demand drives price. It's the same for any economy. If someone asks 500 for a clack, and nobody buys it - well hey, guess that's not the market price.
Also, auctions with only 100 dollar differentiation between buy it now and reserve are a prime example of people not knowing how to make an auction. A regulation for that difference can be set.
But overall, getting rid of auctions is NOT going to change the price of clacks. Instead of maybe getting it for a lower price, you are going to see them at the highest price in [FS].


Again - getting rid of auctions is not the answer, its a cop-out for lacking the ability to come up with a better solution.

The market principles for "rare" items such as CCs don't have to apply to our growing community here. We have the power to enforce it as long as people want this change to occur. You're right, banning auctions isn't an optimal solution, but it's the one I'm willing to settle for. Why? Because how many people here will agree to simply forbid overpricing CCs, especially those right after a CC lottery? Those looking to profit off their fellow members will be the most vocal opponents of such measures.

Perhaps I'm too idealistic. Maybe my ideas aren't realistic since people unknowingly bring their greed and selfishness here from the outside world and refuse to change. I guess I will take it upon myself to make a small change and not sell to those who make immense profits off other members.

I understand your point, but again - it's still not going to change the price of these things. An auction represents the ability to possibly get an item at a lower cost. Which regulating auctions could help with.
Of course you get people that make an auction with, let's say '$400 minimum and $500 BIN' which is just ridiculous. We can say if item has a max or BIN, then minimum cannot exceed 50% of BIN or something to that effect.


Don't forget there are always behind the scenes sales happening as well. So removing legitimate auctions from people isn't an answer.

[jcrouse]

You could move the entire classifieds, both sale and auction to ebay but everytime something is sold that one of the gh whiners thinks is overpriced they will post a link on gh to the sale and it will be the same story, 8 pages of opinions, *****ing, whining and butthurt.

John

[demik]

lets throw money at it

[jcrouse]

Don't forget there are always behind the scenes sales happening as well. So removing legitimate auctions from people isn't an answer.

You make a good point here. What may happen is that things become less transparent, prices do NOT decline and actually fewer members get opportunities because people are pm'ing their friends privately.

John

[demik]

lets throw money at it

[Alessandro]

You could move the entire classifieds, both sale and auction to ebay but everytime something is sold that one of the gh whiners thinks is overpriced they will post a link on gh to the sale and it will be the same story, 8 pages of opinions, *****ing, whining and butthurt.

John

I always love that:

Complaints come in saying "don't bid on this". Don't make the guy money and such.

Why post it and fuel the flames in the first place?

[demik]

something something glass house

something something kettle black

[SpAmRaY]

Let's just get people to buy clacks for other people.

[MKULTRA]

I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.


Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.

Rules in regards to clacks? What do you have in mind?

Rules set in place for auctions. Such as setting up a formatted way to post an auction. No private bidding, etc.

I don't think private bidding changes anything. If people are allowed to sell novelty keycaps for a massive price hike, they will do it by any means available to them: auction, PM, or even just straight-up demanding $150 in a sale thread. The real issue behind the "butthurt" is the fact that the obnoxious resale prices are allowed. The method which they are sold through really doesn't matter, but auctions seem to be creator of the highest prices.

Market demand drives price. It's the same for any economy. If someone asks 500 for a clack, and nobody buys it - well hey, guess that's not the market price.
Also, auctions with only 100 dollar differentiation between buy it now and reserve are a prime example of people not knowing how to make an auction. A regulation for that difference can be set.
But overall, getting rid of auctions is NOT going to change the price of clacks. Instead of maybe getting it for a lower price, you are going to see them at the highest price in [FS].


Again - getting rid of auctions is not the answer, its a cop-out for lacking the ability to come up with a better solution.

I already tried to explain this but it didn't work.  Save your fingers the energy wasted of explaining it.

[Neebio]

I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.


Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.

Rules in regards to clacks? What do you have in mind?

Rules set in place for auctions. Such as setting up a formatted way to post an auction. No private bidding, etc.

I don't think private bidding changes anything. If people are allowed to sell novelty keycaps for a massive price hike, they will do it by any means available to them: auction, PM, or even just straight-up demanding $150 in a sale thread. The real issue behind the "butthurt" is the fact that the obnoxious resale prices are allowed. The method which they are sold through really doesn't matter, but auctions seem to be creator of the highest prices.

The reason behind the "butthurt" isn't the "obnoxious" resale prices, it's the people who complain about it.  People have all the right in the world to sell that which they own for any price a buyer is willing to pay.

--edit-- a word

[Michael]

I don't think private bidding changes anything.

Private bidding matters because you don't know if it's a real bid, or an artificial one by the seller to jack the price up.

[keymaster]

I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.


Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.

Rules in regards to clacks? What do you have in mind?

Rules set in place for auctions. Such as setting up a formatted way to post an auction. No private bidding, etc.

I don't think private bidding changes anything. If people are allowed to sell novelty keycaps for a massive price hike, they will do it by any means available to them: auction, PM, or even just straight-up demanding $150 in a sale thread. The real issue behind the "butthurt" is the fact that the obnoxious resale prices are allowed. The method which they are sold through really doesn't matter, but auctions seem to be creator of the highest prices.

The reason behind the "butthurt" isn't the "obnoxious" resale prices, it's the people who complain it.  People have all the right in the world to sell that which they own for any price a buyer is willing to pay.

So people are butthurt because they complain? Dat logic. For me, it has nothing to do with the physical CC but the greedy principles some of you display.

I'm pretty much done debating here. I've given up the possibility of having members view each other as members instead of a piggy bank. From now on, I will boycott profiteers whenever I sell something. I will flat-out ignore them if they'd like to buy one of my items. I encourage others to do the same.

[Neebio]

-- snip --

So people are butthurt because they complain? Dat logic. For me, it has nothing to do with the physical CC but the greedy principles some of you display.

I'm pretty much done debating here. I've given up the possibility of having members view each other as members instead of a piggy bank. From now on, I will boycott profiteers whenever I sell something. I will flat-out ignore them if they'd like to buy one of my items. I encourage others to do the same.

Other way around.  Complaining about something that you have no place taking issue against is just causing drama.  I'm neither now nor ever talked specifically about Clacks.  This applies globally.  If you think something is overpriced, that is your right to think it, but you have no right to complain¹ about others paying what you believe is an exaggerated price for an item.  It is their right to pay whatever they feel comfortable paying to get what they want.

With regards to your second remark, more power to you.  Sell to whoever you wish.  Though I'd be careful about how you define "profiteers" or you may just incite more needless drama.

¹ Edit: I Re-read that.  To clarify:  I am not suggesting, by saying you have no right to complain, that you have no right to free speech or whatever related.  The intended idea of it was to say that you have no right to mess with what or how a seller sells an item to a willing buyer.

[esoomenona]

 

[kmiller8]

this is how he really feels

[Neebio]

this is how he really feels

Show Image

...how did you... so fast... do you... a database of moose pictures..?

[Michael]

I specifically brought up clacks only because they are what really sparked this issue, once the EK sale people were notified and starting putting up auctions.

[keymaster]

¹ Edit: Re-read that.  I am not suggesting, by saying you have no right to complain, that you have no right to free speech or whatever related.  The intended idea of it was to say that you have no right to mess with what or how a seller sells an item to a willing buyer.

I have no right? Hah. I certainly have a right and that is why this thread exists. People keep thinking this forum is eBay or liken it to the world market, but it is NOT any of those. If this community agreed to from the start, with the moral guidance from the moderators, to participate in fair buying/selling practices...there wouldn't have been a need for this thread.

Hopefully the admin staff will put on their moral goggles and see what is the right thing to do for the COMMUNITY and not for the INDIVIDUAL SELLER.

[Neebio]

¹ Edit: Re-read that.  I am not suggesting, by saying you have no right to complain, that you have no right to free speech or whatever related.  The intended idea of it was to say that you have no right to mess with what or how a seller sells an item to a willing buyer.

I have no right? Hah. I certainly have a right and that is why this thread exists. People keep thinking this forum is eBay or liken it to the world market, but it is NOT any of those. If this community agreed to from the start, with the moral guidance from the moderators, to participate in fair buying/selling practices...there wouldn't have been a need for this thread.

Hopefully the admin staff will put on their moral goggles and see what is the right thing to do for the COMMUNITY and not for the INDIVIDUAL SELLER.

Man.. Did you really just misinterpret my edit which was aimed at avoiding misinterpretation?  The edit (which you quoted) says that I'm NOT saying you don't have a right to your freedom of speech, but that you have no right to interfere with what consenting parties do together.

Also, how exactly do you see any of the sales going on here as unfair?  I thought this was clear.  When a buyer decides they are willing to pay an amount to a seller for the item they want, there is nothing wrong with that.  A sale that takes place without issue and with both parties consenting completely is 100% fair.  There is literally nothing unfair about it.  The only sales you could call "unfair" would be any time somebody is scammed or cheated in some way.

There's probably also something to be said about counting on the mods/admins for morality, but after having taken multiple university level courses on philosophy of morals and ethics, I can say for certain that that is not something I want to get into here... That stuff is boring as hell.

[Photoelectric]

Sometimes I wish clacks didn't exist at all.  Seems like 80% of the Classifieds drama stems from them.  Even as related to the auctions.  Perhaps something else would be hyped up out of proportions then, but so far, nothing even comes close.  Gas Mask market is a fair amount healthier than the Clack market.  If only we could figure out what makes specifically the Clack market so crazy vs. other well-made novelty caps.  Because there are plenty of others.

But let's not be jumping to incorrect conclusions: obviously the colorful molded pieces of plastic don't have any evil consciousness of their own, trying to rob everyone's wallets and stirring up drama.  It's the people involved in the sales, the buying, the discussing, and the reselling.

My observations have led me to believe that the Legend Of The Great Clacks is perpetuated by the current sale $ figures and by all the talk about them like they are the End All desirable caps, so that new members quickly learn that Clacks are THE caps to get.  Before they even learn to appreciate the caps as works of art or what not, they learn that Clacks are the best way to make some quick cash, if only they get lucky enough during EK or CF sales.  Everyone who discusses Clacks and their high value and continues building a shrine to them is perpetuating this problem.  This issue extends outside the Classifieds subforum, and sometimes I think it'd be great to just not allow any discussions such as "Clack Therapy" threads and similar.  They are fueling the drama, exaggerating the value of these keycaps, and continuing the problem. 

That's my stance on what some of the current conventions for certain novelty caps are doing to this community.  I think this discussion about auctions also stems at least in part due to all the drama from specifically clack sales.

[esoomenona]

the Legend Of The Great Clacks

[keymaster]

Man.. Did you really just misinterpret my edit which was aimed at avoiding misinterpretation?  The edit (which you quoted) says that I'm NOT saying you don't have a right to your freedom of speech, but that you have no right to interfere with what consenting parties do together.

Also, how exactly do you see any of the sales going on here as unfair?  I thought this was clear.  When a buyer decides they are willing to pay an amount to a seller for the item they want, there is nothing wrong with that.  A sale that takes place without issue and with both parties consenting completely is 100% fair.  There is literally nothing unfair about it.  The only sales you could call "unfair" would be any time somebody is scammed or cheated in some way.

There's probably also something to be said about counting on the mods/admins for morality, but after having taken multiple university level courses on philosophy of morals and ethics, I can say for certain that that is not something I want to get into here... That stuff is boring as hell.

I didn't misinterpret anything. I said that I DO have a right to "mess with what or how a seller sells an item to a willing buyer" because it affects all the other prospective buyers in the community. They're directly affected because they either cannot afford the price or refuse to pay because it is insulting to buy a $25 plastic for up to $500. I've argued this point to death previously in the thread and do not wish to repeat myself.

I come here to see the new creations by talented members and new products by vendors -- not to watch a few greedy d-bags rip off the community. Put a stop on this laissez-faire bull****.

I'll end my rants with this: when I do win a CC, I will sell it at cost to someone that doesn't even have one. I don't even understand why everyone is so obsessed with them, but the outrageous prices they're being sold should really start pissing people off.

[SpAmRaY]

So all these magical $500 clacks everyone references were they ever actually for sale publicly?

[nubbinator]

So all these magical $500 clacks everyone references were they ever actually for sale publicly?

I'm trying to remember if there were ever any that auctioned for that much.  I know there were a few public $300-400 Clacks for sale.

[SpAmRaY]

What I'm saying is many of the $400  clacks were not sold to just anybody in an open sale, so in a way those are perhaps more collectible and worth more.

[Neebio]

I said that I DO have a right to "mess with what or how a seller sells an item to a willing buyer" because it affects all the other prospective buyers in the community. They're directly affected because they either cannot afford the price or refuse to pay because it is insulting to buy a $25 plastic for up to $500.

This is literally 100% wrong.  You really don't have any right to interfere with two consenting parties participating in a trade of goods at a mutually accepted cost.  You don't.  As a outside party to the transaction, you are unaffected in ANY way, and you don't have any right to get in between the parties and interfere.  It is NOT the concern of the seller or any other buyers if a particular buyer cannot afford the asking price.

And this one is especially important: you have the right to be insulted, but that DOES NOT give you the right to interfere.

[singaporean123]

yes I am butt hurt.

But not because others have clacks.

Because some people get them for the sole purpose of selling it for huge profits- and they get away with it.

I am butt hurt because they are luckier than I am.

In my mind the scenario plays out like this

>5 limited edition collectibles sold at $5
>I want it
> X doesn't want it, but he knows it can be sold for $50
>X asks me if I want it, and I say yes
>He gets lucky in getting one and says, "okay I'll sell it to you then $50"
>wtf but you didn't want it anyway
>X: I want money and someone will pay me good money for it
>much anger; many butthurt

[Alessandro]

That's the simple fact of rarity no matter what the item. It happens in many hobby circles.

[Neebio]

I'm going to hopefully pull this back on course here, since the original topic asks about auction threads.  This whole business of whether people should be allowed to make profit on sales needs to stop, since it is mostly just silly.

Way back in post #1, jwaz mentioned they seemed to easily go chaotic, and they circumvent the bump rule in a sense because people post to bid.

Proposed solutions:

- Create an Auctions Sub-Forum.  This sub-forum would be specifically for auctions (in-thread or off-site).  Nothing but auctions.  The sub-forum would have a modified set of rules similar to the classifieds section, but different in relation to issues like the bump rule.  (for example, the owner of an auction thread is allowed to bump it once every 24 hours, and bids must be new posts.  Bids which have been edited are disqualified, to keep the most legitimacy as possible, etc)

Reasoning:

- Classifieds would no longer be cluttered by auction threads (which have a tendency to sit at the top and push other threads down).  Classifieds users would be happier and have an easier time finding stuff.
- Auctions wouldn't have to worry about conflicting with the bump rules of the classifieds section, and since they would be in their own sub-forum, would only be competing against other auctions for the first page spots. 
- Sub-forum rules specific to auctions will help prevent auctions from going chaotic, and help to formulate a 'standard' for auctions.

Proposed 'specific' rules:

(These are my suggestions, but the new auction-specific rules certainly wouldn't be limited to just what I come up with)
- In-thread auction bids MUST be made in a new reply to the auction thread.  No Edits. No PMs.
- Items for auction must be in the possession of the seller.
- If there is a reserve on the auction, it must instead be listed as the minimum starting bid.  No hidden reserves.
- Auction length and bid step policy must be clearly defined in the auction thread by the auctioneer.  By bidding in their auction, you accept to follow their bid step policy and auction style.

Other notes:

I would think that it might be a good idea to continue to allow people to post about their ebay auctions (or other off-site sales) in the classifieds, so long as they follow all the classifieds rules.  This is because an ebay auction post wouldn't act like an in-thread auction and have the tendency to push other sale threads down repeatedly, since the bidding isn't done in-thread.

[keymaster]

I said that I DO have a right to "mess with what or how a seller sells an item to a willing buyer" because it affects all the other prospective buyers in the community. They're directly affected because they either cannot afford the price or refuse to pay because it is insulting to buy a $25 plastic for up to $500.

This is literally 100% wrong.  You really don't have any right to interfere with two consenting parties participating in a trade of goods at a mutually accepted cost.  You don't.  As a outside party to the transaction, you are unaffected in ANY way, and you don't have any right to get in between the parties and interfere.  It is NOT the concern of the seller or any other buyers if a particular buyer cannot afford the asking price.

And this one is especially important: you have the right to be insulted, but that DOES NOT give you the right to interfere.

Sorry, but this is a forum and a community -- not some kind of impersonal flea market where anything goes. People with your way of thinking are ruining this place. I, as a member of this community, have just as much right as anyone else on the forum to call someone out for ripping people off.

[jcrouse]

Simple fact, some will have, some will not. Some who have not will be angry, discuss it openly, others who have not  will join in and the conversation will go to a place that many consider to not be in the best interest of the commumity.

This will never change or completely go away, period.

John

[demik]

And others will throw money at it and justify it

[rowdy]

So all these magical $500 clacks everyone references were they ever actually for sale publicly?

I'm given to understand that CC undertook custom designs on request back in the day, and people asked him to do all sorts of things.

So some of them were probably one-offs, or extremely limited runs.

[Neebio]

I said that I DO have a right to "mess with what or how a seller sells an item to a willing buyer" because it affects all the other prospective buyers in the community. They're directly affected because they either cannot afford the price or refuse to pay because it is insulting to buy a $25 plastic for up to $500.

This is literally 100% wrong.  You really don't have any right to interfere with two consenting parties participating in a trade of goods at a mutually accepted cost.  You don't.  As a outside party to the transaction, you are unaffected in ANY way, and you don't have any right to get in between the parties and interfere.  It is NOT the concern of the seller or any other buyers if a particular buyer cannot afford the asking price.

And this one is especially important: you have the right to be insulted, but that DOES NOT give you the right to interfere.

Sorry, but this is a forum and a community -- not some kind of impersonal flea market where anything goes. People with your way of thinking are ruining this place. I, as a member of this community, have just as much right as anyone else on the forum to call someone out for ripping people off.

So a seller puts up an item you feel is overpriced (the "rip-off"), and a buyer (who obviously doesn't think it's a rip-off, since he is buying it) buys it.  So this makes you mad?  That somebody who is willing to spend more than you for an item does so?  Literally all you are doing by complaining about somebody else spending more money than you would for something is creating needless drama.  You advocate so hard for the "community" but really all you are doing is creating toxicity.

[jcrouse]

And others will throw money at it and justify it

C'mon demik, almost evrryone here is attempting to help or add something, in some small way, even though they have different views. Personally, every time I post you have replied with a smart ass comment. If you have something to say, say it. If it is personal feel free to pm me. If you think everyone can benefit say it here.

John

[Alessandro]

And others will throw money at it and justify it

Yes, that's also part of what John just said. Guess what? That won't change either. Bloody hell, if people want them, let them get them how they see fit!

[Krogenar]

I don't see how putting auctions in a subforum would be much of a help. The anger over them spills over into other areas of the forum anyway.

If auctions generate so much unease and anger (looks like they do) just ban them outright. Then the people who want to get the most for their clacks will do it elsewhere. It doesn't matter if any of us feel the anger is justified or not; keeping people happy is valid enough reason. No one here at GH has "rights" -- the owners of the forum can do whatever they want. If the owners ban auctions, or sales, etc. -- they'll still happen somewhere else, so no one's rights are really being trampled. Clacks will still be sold for prices that get some people's panties bunched up; but at least it won't happen here. So, if you've got a big collection, or a rare one you need to sell, you'll still see a return on your investment, it just won't be here.

Ban auctions and be done with it. But, outline what happens when people set them up in ignorance of this new rule; temporary banning, public shaming, whatever -- so long as it is explicitly stated. Also, what to do about ongoing auctions? Should they immediately cease?

You advocate so hard for the "community" but really all you are doing is creating toxicity.

I have to agree. But from their perspective, the "community" should not be infected with the profit motive. If the majority of the decision-makers at GH believe this (looks that way) then they have the every right to purge excessive 'greed' from the community, as they define it. (If they deign to define it.)

What tickles me is the attitude among those people (not calling anyone out specifically) is that not only is excessive profit morally wrong (still no concrete numbers defining excessive profit) but the greater a hit you take in your wallet, the greater your prestige in the "community". What kind of sense does that really make, anyway? If we're a community, then I care about the people in it. That means I don't want to hear about people losing money on GBs, or anything, for that matter. I would rather see people who do great things for the community make some profit. This hobby should be about joy, not monetary self-sacrifice. No one should have to prove their loyalty and passion for the hobby and the community by taking a loss financially. When you do that, you're pushing some members of the community away, and that's a mistake.

If some people are tired of being "lectured" about economics, I am similarly tired of being lectured on the immorality of the market.

[Melvang]

I don't see how putting auctions in a subforum would be much of a help. The anger over them spills over into other areas of the forum anyway.

If auctions generate so much unease and anger (looks like they do) just ban them outright. Then the people who want to get the most for their clacks will do it elsewhere. It doesn't matter if any of us feel the anger is justified or not; keeping people happy is valid enough reason. No one here at GH has "rights" -- the owners of the forum can do whatever they want. If the owners ban auctions, or sales, etc. -- they'll still happen somewhere else, so no one's rights are really being trampled. Clacks will still be sold for prices that get some people's panties bunched up; but at least it won't happen here. So, if you've got a big collection, or a rare one you need to sell, you'll still see a return on your investment, it just won't be here.

Ban auctions and be done with it. But, outline what happens when people set them up in ignorance of this new rule; temporary banning, public shaming, whatever -- so long as it is explicitly stated. Also, what to do about ongoing auctions? Should they immediately cease?

I would say let the current ones run their course but no more new ones.  If people start extending the time limit of said auctions then set an end date and time for them.

[SpAmRaY]

I don't see how putting auctions in a subforum would be much of a help. The anger over them spills over into other areas of the forum anyway.

If auctions generate so much unease and anger (looks like they do) just ban them outright. Then the people who want to get the most for their clacks will do it elsewhere. It doesn't matter if any of us feel the anger is justified or not; keeping people happy is valid enough reason. No one here at GH has "rights" -- the owners of the forum can do whatever they want. If the owners ban auctions, or sales, etc. -- they'll still happen somewhere else, so no one's rights are really being trampled. Clacks will still be sold for prices that get some people's panties bunched up; but at least it won't happen here. So, if you've got a big collection, or a rare one you need to sell, you'll still see a return on your investment, it just won't be here.

Ban auctions and be done with it. But, outline what happens when people set them up in ignorance of this new rule; temporary banning, public shaming, whatever -- so long as it is explicitly stated. Also, what to do about ongoing auctions? Should they immediately cease?

Wonder what iMav's thoughts are, is he still the 'owner'?