Author Topic: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation  (Read 115899 times)

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Offline Ngt

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #250 on: Mon, 03 August 2015, 17:00:11 »
Regarding the Linux version of SpaceFn:

Ideally I would like a loadable kernel module to handle the SpaceFn functionality and I am assuming something
to do this might exist, but I have not been lucky in my googling.

The reason I would like a kernel module for this is that I want to be able to use the same layout in X11 and
in the console. I have had a look at some modules handling keyboard input but I am no Kernel hacker.

Does anyone with more knowledge than me know if this would be a reasonable task?  I know there may
be differences between USB and PS2 keyboards that may complicate things, but I have no clue about the
details...


Nope sorry I can't help you on that. I'll mostly use a custom PCB to put load SpaceFn directly into the firmware so no need to install stuff on the computer.

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Offline njbair

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #251 on: Tue, 04 August 2015, 22:30:05 »
Regarding the Linux version of SpaceFn:

Ideally I would like a loadable kernel module to handle the SpaceFn functionality and I am assuming something
to do this might exist, but I have not been lucky in my googling.

The reason I would like a kernel module for this is that I want to be able to use the same layout in X11 and
in the console. I have had a look at some modules handling keyboard input but I am no Kernel hacker.

Does anyone with more knowledge than me know if this would be a reasonable task?  I know there may
be differences between USB and PS2 keyboards that may complicate things, but I have no clue about the
details...


Nope sorry I can't help you on that. I'll mostly use a custom PCB to put load SpaceFn directly into the firmware so no need to install stuff on the computer.

Hardware-based is the best answer. Even if you don't have the ability to swap out PCBs, you can still use a plug-in device such as hasu's TMK-based USB to USB converter.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
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AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline aklt

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #252 on: Wed, 05 August 2015, 09:08:51 »
Ah, I hadn't seen that, must check it out.  I agree that is probably the best solution since
I will be sure to have the same layout across all OSs, etc.

It seems I can also define my own layers which is exactly what I would like to do, Thanks!

Offline njbair

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #253 on: Wed, 05 August 2015, 14:15:52 »
Ah, I hadn't seen that, must check it out.  I agree that is probably the best solution since
I will be sure to have the same layout across all OSs, etc.

It seems I can also define my own layers which is exactly what I would like to do, Thanks!

It's an amazing little dongle. Basically turns any keyboard into a fully-programmable one.

The only catch is for boards like the Poker and HHKB, which already have Fn keys, they don't send a scancode when Fn is pressed so you can't redefine them using the converter.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline aklt

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #254 on: Wed, 05 August 2015, 17:57:10 »
Ah, I see.

My plan is to use this with a Filco keyboard, so I think I will be fine.

Have many of you built one of these?  It would be great to see some pictures of
the various designs, I think ;-)

Offline wakko

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #255 on: Wed, 05 August 2015, 19:16:23 »
The USB-USB convertor is legit. Had an arduino board laying around; flashed SpaceFN onto it. Works flawlessly!
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Offline njbair

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #256 on: Wed, 05 August 2015, 22:16:37 »
The USB-USB convertor is legit. Had an arduino board laying around; flashed SpaceFN onto it. Works flawlessly!

Nice!

Although, you just had a $30 USB host shield laying around? Weird.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline wakko

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The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #257 on: Thu, 06 August 2015, 08:47:45 »
The shield is $13 and that I had to buy. Why would it be weird anyway. I've got a couple of demo boards lying around, like the xplain and a bunch of avr and pic chips. :shrug:
« Last Edit: Thu, 06 August 2015, 08:51:06 by wakko »
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Offline njbair

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #258 on: Thu, 06 August 2015, 10:19:31 »
The shield is $13 and that I had to buy. Why would it be weird anyway. I've got a couple of demo boards lying around, like the xplain and a bunch of avr and pic chips. :shrug:

It's not that weird, I guess. I've got a few Arduinos & shields, 2 Raspberry Pi's, a couple of Parallax dev boards, MSP430's, and a bunch of small breakout board kits lying around. You just don't see a ton of that on GH.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline ideus

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #259 on: Sat, 12 September 2015, 23:54:18 »
Just chiming in, to report on the use of the space-fn concept using TouchCursor (TC), it makes a lot of sense in my GON, actually, I have not used its FN layer for quiet some time, TC is more than enough for my needs.

One major concern for me was the occasional need I have for chords with arrow keys, for example in Excel; however, TC with the use of the space-bar and IJKL for the arrow keys is very easy to use, even with chorded commands.

I fully recommend to 60% users to give the SpaceFN concept a try; there are many options to implement it, I have found TC a very nice way to do it, and I can use it even with my laptop computer; that even though, it has dedicated arrows keys, it is easier to use the arrows with the space-bar.

Updated with the latest layout. The Space-FN makes this to work like charm.
« Last Edit: Sun, 20 September 2015, 11:43:47 by ideus »

Offline Ngt

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #260 on: Sun, 13 September 2015, 16:24:22 »
Just chiming in, to report on the use of the space-fn concept using TouchCursor (TC), it makes a lot of sense in my GON, actually, I have not used its FN layer for quiet some time, TC is more than enough for my needs.

One major concern for me was the occasional need I have for chords with arrow keys, for example in Excel; however, TC with the use of the space-bar and IJKL for the arrow keys is very easy to use, even with chorded commands.

I fully recommend to 60% users to give the SpaceFN concept a try; there are many options to implement it, I have found TC a very nice way to do it, and I can use it even with my laptop computer; that even though, it has dedicated arrows keys, it is easier to use the arrows with the space-bar.


For me SpaceFn is the layout that makes the more sense when you are touch typing. I used to use a Poker II back before I learn to touch type. It felt that the fn layout was nice but since I touch type I didn't like it all. You have to move your hand out of the homing line way too much to use it so you waste too much time getting back onto it IMO. Looking forward to have my custom 60% so I can give it a try. :D

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Sold: Ducky Zero Shine (Brown) | Poker 2 (Blue) | HHKB 55g Type-S

Offline ideus

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #261 on: Sun, 13 September 2015, 18:09:06 »
Just chiming in, to report on the use of the space-fn concept using TouchCursor (TC), it makes a lot of sense in my GON, actually, I have not used its FN layer for quiet some time, TC is more than enough for my needs.

One major concern for me was the occasional need I have for chords with arrow keys, for example in Excel; however, TC with the use of the space-bar and IJKL for the arrow keys is very easy to use, even with chorded commands.

I fully recommend to 60% users to give the SpaceFN concept a try; there are many options to implement it, I have found TC a very nice way to do it, and I can use it even with my laptop computer; that even though, it has dedicated arrows keys, it is easier to use the arrows with the space-bar.


For me SpaceFn is the layout that makes the more sense when you are touch typing. I used to use a Poker II back before I learn to touch type. It felt that the fn layout was nice but since I touch type I didn't like it all. You have to move your hand out of the homing line way too much to use it so you waste too much time getting back onto it IMO. Looking forward to have my custom 60% so I can give it a try. :D


I also found the arrow keys in FN easier to use than with another FN key in my GON. Maybe is time for GON to include a sort of FN implementation in his software.

Offline asgeirtj

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #262 on: Thu, 17 September 2015, 07:31:28 »
Just chiming in, to report on the use of the space-fn concept using TouchCursor (TC), it makes a lot of sense in my GON, actually, I have not used its FN layer for quiet some time, TC is more than enough for my needs.

One major concern for me was the occasional need I have for chords with arrow keys, for example in Excel; however, TC with the use of the space-bar and IJKL for the arrow keys is very easy to use, even with chorded commands.

I fully recommend to 60% users to give the SpaceFN concept a try; there are many options to implement it, I have found TC a very nice way to do it, and I can use it even with my laptop computer; that even though, it has dedicated arrows keys, it is easier to use the arrows with the space-bar.


For me SpaceFn is the layout that makes the more sense when you are touch typing. I used to use a Poker II back before I learn to touch type. It felt that the fn layout was nice but since I touch type I didn't like it all. You have to move your hand out of the homing line way too much to use it so you waste too much time getting back onto it IMO. Looking forward to have my custom 60% so I can give it a try. :D

Excuse me but what are corded commands?
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Offline njbair

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #263 on: Thu, 17 September 2015, 07:40:38 »
Just chiming in, to report on the use of the space-fn concept using TouchCursor (TC), it makes a lot of sense in my GON, actually, I have not used its FN layer for quiet some time, TC is more than enough for my needs.

One major concern for me was the occasional need I have for chords with arrow keys, for example in Excel; however, TC with the use of the space-bar and IJKL for the arrow keys is very easy to use, even with chorded commands.

I fully recommend to 60% users to give the SpaceFN concept a try; there are many options to implement it, I have found TC a very nice way to do it, and I can use it even with my laptop computer; that even though, it has dedicated arrows keys, it is easier to use the arrows with the space-bar.


For me SpaceFn is the layout that makes the more sense when you are touch typing. I used to use a Poker II back before I learn to touch type. It felt that the fn layout was nice but since I touch type I didn't like it all. You have to move your hand out of the homing line way too much to use it so you waste too much time getting back onto it IMO. Looking forward to have my custom 60% so I can give it a try. :D

Excuse me but what are corded commands?
Chorded. Think of a piano where you play a chord by striking multiple keys. Same idea, a chorded command requires multiple keystrokes.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline ideus

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #264 on: Thu, 17 September 2015, 07:46:15 »
Just chiming in, to report on the use of the space-fn concept using TouchCursor (TC), it makes a lot of sense in my GON, actually, I have not used its FN layer for quiet some time, TC is more than enough for my needs.

One major concern for me was the occasional need I have for chords with arrow keys, for example in Excel; however, TC with the use of the space-bar and IJKL for the arrow keys is very easy to use, even with chorded commands.

I fully recommend to 60% users to give the SpaceFN concept a try; there are many options to implement it, I have found TC a very nice way to do it, and I can use it even with my laptop computer; that even though, it has dedicated arrows keys, it is easier to use the arrows with the space-bar.


For me SpaceFn is the layout that makes the more sense when you are touch typing. I used to use a Poker II back before I learn to touch type. It felt that the fn layout was nice but since I touch type I didn't like it all. You have to move your hand out of the homing line way too much to use it so you waste too much time getting back onto it IMO. Looking forward to have my custom 60% so I can give it a try. :D

Excuse me but what are corded commands?
Chorded. Think of a piano where you play a chord by striking multiple keys. Same idea, a chorded command requires multiple keystrokes.

Chorded command: Using more than one key press to invoke some action in a software - this is my potato definition - For example control+shift+down arrow to mark a block of cells in Excel until the last filled cell in a column.

Online tominabox1

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #265 on: Fri, 18 September 2015, 08:21:50 »
Doesn't anybody have a problem with accidentally activating the fn layer when using this? I added it to my adb-usb config and couldn't type for crap heh...
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Offline geniekid

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #266 on: Fri, 18 September 2015, 08:34:27 »
Doesn't anybody have a problem with accidentally activating the fn layer when using this? I added it to my adb-usb config and couldn't type for crap heh...

The activation time is pretty key.  I'm still playing around with it but 150ms is working well for me.  Occasionally I still get mixed up though.

Online tominabox1

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #267 on: Fri, 18 September 2015, 08:39:20 »
Doesn't anybody have a problem with accidentally activating the fn layer when using this? I added it to my adb-usb config and couldn't type for crap heh...

The activation time is pretty key.  I'm still playing around with it but 150ms is working well for me.  Occasionally I still get mixed up though.

Ah I guess I didnt try to mess with that.  I will read through the thread again and see if I can roll that in.
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Offline Ngt

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #268 on: Sun, 20 September 2015, 09:36:44 »
Doesn't anybody have a problem with accidentally activating the fn layer when using this? I added it to my adb-usb config and couldn't type for crap heh...

The activation time is pretty key.  I'm still playing around with it but 150ms is working well for me.  Occasionally I still get mixed up though.
How can you change the activation time? Is it possible to do it on custom PCB?

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Offline geniekid

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #269 on: Sun, 20 September 2015, 11:31:54 »
Doesn't anybody have a problem with accidentally activating the fn layer when using this? I added it to my adb-usb config and couldn't type for crap heh...

The activation time is pretty key.  I'm still playing around with it but 150ms is working well for me.  Occasionally I still get mixed up though.
How can you change the activation time? Is it possible to do it on custom PCB?

Yes you would need to use a controller or converter running firmware that allowed you to modify those settings.  Anything that supports TMK firmware would do it.

Offline Ngt

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #270 on: Sun, 20 September 2015, 12:24:42 »
Doesn't anybody have a problem with accidentally activating the fn layer when using this? I added it to my adb-usb config and couldn't type for crap heh...

The activation time is pretty key.  I'm still playing around with it but 150ms is working well for me.  Occasionally I still get mixed up though.
How can you change the activation time? Is it possible to do it on custom PCB?

Yes you would need to use a controller or converter running firmware that allowed you to modify those settings.  Anything that supports TMK firmware would do it.


Do you mean I would need to add components to my PCB? How do I know if it isn't already stock on my PCB?

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Offline njbair

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #271 on: Sun, 20 September 2015, 12:58:03 »
Doesn't anybody have a problem with accidentally activating the fn layer when using this? I added it to my adb-usb config and couldn't type for crap heh...

The activation time is pretty key.  I'm still playing around with it but 150ms is working well for me.  Occasionally I still get mixed up though.
How can you change the activation time? Is it possible to do it on custom PCB?

Yes you would need to use a controller or converter running firmware that allowed you to modify those settings.  Anything that supports TMK firmware would do it.


Do you mean I would need to add components to my PCB? How do I know if it isn't already stock on my PCB?
No, it's a software thing. But it requires a board that runs TMK firmware. You should know if you have this.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline Ngt

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #272 on: Sun, 20 September 2015, 14:19:26 »
Doesn't anybody have a problem with accidentally activating the fn layer when using this? I added it to my adb-usb config and couldn't type for crap heh...

The activation time is pretty key.  I'm still playing around with it but 150ms is working well for me.  Occasionally I still get mixed up though.
How can you change the activation time? Is it possible to do it on custom PCB?

Yes you would need to use a controller or converter running firmware that allowed you to modify those settings.  Anything that supports TMK firmware would do it.


Do you mean I would need to add components to my PCB? How do I know if it isn't already stock on my PCB?
No, it's a software thing. But it requires a board that runs TMK firmware. You should know if you have this.


Hum alright. I have a b.face PCB from winkeyless store. I don't know if it has TMK firmware on it. I guess that if it doesn't have it I can just flash it, isn't it?

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Offline njbair

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #273 on: Sun, 20 September 2015, 14:29:50 »
Doesn't anybody have a problem with accidentally activating the fn layer when using this? I added it to my adb-usb config and couldn't type for crap heh...

The activation time is pretty key.  I'm still playing around with it but 150ms is working well for me.  Occasionally I still get mixed up though.
How can you change the activation time? Is it possible to do it on custom PCB?

Yes you would need to use a controller or converter running firmware that allowed you to modify those settings.  Anything that supports TMK firmware would do it.


Do you mean I would need to add components to my PCB? How do I know if it isn't already stock on my PCB?
No, it's a software thing. But it requires a board that runs TMK firmware. You should know if you have this.


Hum alright. I have a b.face PCB from winkeyless store. I don't know if it has TMK firmware on it. I guess that if it doesn't have it I can just flash it, isn't it?
I don't know what kind of chip the b. PCBs use, but if it's an AVR chip you should be able to flash it with TMK.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline Ngt

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #274 on: Sun, 20 September 2015, 14:30:19 »
Doesn't anybody have a problem with accidentally activating the fn layer when using this? I added it to my adb-usb config and couldn't type for crap heh...

The activation time is pretty key.  I'm still playing around with it but 150ms is working well for me.  Occasionally I still get mixed up though.
How can you change the activation time? Is it possible to do it on custom PCB?

Yes you would need to use a controller or converter running firmware that allowed you to modify those settings.  Anything that supports TMK firmware would do it.


Do you mean I would need to add components to my PCB? How do I know if it isn't already stock on my PCB?
No, it's a software thing. But it requires a board that runs TMK firmware. You should know if you have this.


Hum alright. I have a b.face PCB from winkeyless store. I don't know if it has TMK firmware on it. I guess that if it doesn't have it I can just flash it, isn't it?
I don't know what kind of chip the b. PCBs use, but if it's an AVR chip you should be able to flash it with TMK.


Ok cool thanks you.

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Offline keshley

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #275 on: Sun, 20 September 2015, 19:17:48 »
Might want to take a look at the thread below for the b.face. I believe it covers all the face PCBs. Believe its an AVR too. I haven't read through the entire thread yet, but I believe it to have SpaceFn already built in, hence why its on my list of PCBs to look at for one of my future projects.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58945.0
  
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Offline proselytiser

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #276 on: Mon, 21 September 2015, 09:56:38 »
Giving this a try now. As a long-term Vim user, the HJKL stuff is a no-brainer.

Outside of Vim, though, I am finding it hard to type combos like Shift-Command-Right (ie. select to end of line), which ends up being Shift-Command-Space-L, which is a bit awkward. Perhaps it will start to feel a bit better with practice.

(Yes, I know I could/should use "End" instead, but there's a force of habit here...)
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Offline Ngt

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #277 on: Mon, 21 September 2015, 10:13:05 »
Giving this a try now. As a long-term Vim user, the HJKL stuff is a no-brainer.

Outside of Vim, though, I am finding it hard to type combos like Shift-Command-Right (ie. select to end of line), which ends up being Shift-Command-Space-L, which is a bit awkward. Perhaps it will start to feel a bit better with practice.

(Yes, I know I could/should use "End" instead, but there's a force of habit here...)


Move your command key to the caps lock key cap position. It is way easier that way. :D  Pretty much like the HHKB layout.

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Offline Ngt

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #278 on: Mon, 21 September 2015, 10:14:18 »
Might want to take a look at the thread below for the b.face. I believe it covers all the face PCBs. Believe its an AVR too. I haven't read through the entire thread yet, but I believe it to have SpaceFn already built in, hence why its on my list of PCBs to look at for one of my future projects.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58945.0


Thanks for the link btw. ;)

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Offline proselytiser

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #279 on: Tue, 22 September 2015, 02:43:06 »
Found this great GitHub issue on the Karabiner repo which has a great solution for the rollover issue in the form of a new-ish setting called __BlockUntilKeyUp__.

Basically means that Space is treated as FN only if the "other" key is pressed after Space goes down and is released before Space goes up; ie:

Code: [Select]
# Yes, this is a FN layer press:
space -------------------------------
other            --------------

# Nope, this is just normal rollover, typical when you type fast
space ------------------
other               ----------------------
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Offline EvilOlivE

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #280 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 15:35:14 »
Hi, thank you for providing a quick and easy AHK script for trying out SpaceFn.  I've been playing around with SpaceFN for a few days and its pretty cool.  I'm trying it out on a TKL at the moment, but I think it has convinced me to finally try out a 60%. 

I'm a CAD guy, so I'm always looking for ways to add as much functionality to the left side of my keyboard as possible so I can leave my right hand on my mouse until I have to actually type an email or something.  Having the arrows at WASD saves me from having to reach over to the right side of the keyboard with my left hand. 

Something I'm curious of though, and I hope this isn't too much of a noob question.  Is it possible to use SpaceFn (currently using the AHK version) to send a string of text (CAD command)?

For example:  Space+Q would send something like
Code: [Select]
Send 3dpoly{ENTER}
Or is this limited to only keyboard functions?  Thanks!

Offline ideus

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #281 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 16:27:15 »
Hi, thank you for providing a quick and easy AHK script for trying out SpaceFn.  I've been playing around with SpaceFN for a few days and its pretty cool.  I'm trying it out on a TKL at the moment, but I think it has convinced me to finally try out a 60%. 

I'm a CAD guy, so I'm always looking for ways to add as much functionality to the left side of my keyboard as possible so I can leave my right hand on my mouse until I have to actually type an email or something.  Having the arrows at WASD saves me from having to reach over to the right side of the keyboard with my left hand. 

Something I'm curious of though, and I hope this isn't too much of a noob question.  Is it possible to use SpaceFn (currently using the AHK version) to send a string of text (CAD command)?

For example:  Space+Q would send something like
Code: [Select]
Send 3dpoly{ENTER}
Or is this limited to only keyboard functions?  Thanks!

If you are using AutoHotKey you can program pretty much anything you want. Its specifically design for macro-based automation of repetitive tasks. Check the pre-written examples in the help file.

This is an example of a thread with examples.

Offline EvilOlivE

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #282 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 17:54:42 »
Thanks for that link, there are some neat ideas in there.  I apologize though, I think my first post was a little vague.  My problem isn't really specific to CAD/AHK coding,  it's combining my existing macros into the SpaceFn script. 

For example, I tried this in the SpaceFn script to try and have Space+Q send "hello world" then the enter key. 
Code: [Select]
*w::dual.comboKey({F22: "Up"})
*a::dual.comboKey({F22: "Left"})
*s::dual.comboKey({F22: "Down"})
*d::dual.comboKey({F22: "Right"})
*q::dual.comboKey({F22: "Send hello world{enter}"})

The code above loads without any errors, Space+WASD all works, but Space+Q does nothing.  I'm obviously missing something.  How would I correct the code to send "hello world" when pressing Space+Q?  Once I understand this small step I can paste in some of my existing macros. 

Thanks!

Offline joc

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #283 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 19:32:21 »
Thanks for that link, there are some neat ideas in there.  I apologize though, I think my first post was a little vague.  My problem isn't really specific to CAD/AHK coding,  it's combining my existing macros into the SpaceFn script. 

For example, I tried this in the SpaceFn script to try and have Space+Q send "hello world" then the enter key. 
Code: [Select]
*w::dual.comboKey({F22: "Up"})
*a::dual.comboKey({F22: "Left"})
*s::dual.comboKey({F22: "Down"})
*d::dual.comboKey({F22: "Right"})
*q::dual.comboKey({F22: "Send hello world{enter}"})

The code above loads without any errors, Space+WASD all works, but Space+Q does nothing.  I'm obviously missing something.  How would I correct the code to send "hello world" when pressing Space+Q?  Once I understand this small step I can paste in some of my existing macros. 

Thanks!

You'll need to use the Dual API. This seems like it should work:

+q::dual.Send("hello, world")

Edit: Working solution here.
« Last Edit: Mon, 05 October 2015, 21:04:24 by joc »

Offline ideus

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #284 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 20:21:50 »
If you are in windows you can use Touch-Cursor for your FN commands; then, you can use AHK script for macros, without having them clashing.

Offline ajx

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #285 on: Fri, 02 October 2015, 02:38:51 »
I'd add a couple items from the KBParadise V60: 1) Put in a DIP switch to change the control key to fn; 2) Add an arrow cluster to WASD and either move or eliminate the Mac-only media controls.

I think using space as fn while holding, its one of most clever ergonomic thing i ever ever experienced on 60% which don't have dedicated arrows cluster
The only issue i have its about gaming but i ve figured it out:
- In TMK layout, i ve added another layer that has normal spacebar through a toggle FN key
- I ve modified also the arrow clusters as WASD, its only subjective though

I actually included all sort of possibility to use secondary functions keys

- holding space as FN
- toggling a FN key

It may sound a bit complicated and complexe as own setup but in practicing, it works like a charm
 

Offline njbair

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #286 on: Fri, 02 October 2015, 07:48:42 »
I'd add a couple items from the KBParadise V60: 1) Put in a DIP switch to change the control key to fn; 2) Add an arrow cluster to WASD and either move or eliminate the Mac-only media controls.

I think using space as fn while holding, its one of most clever ergonomic thing i ever ever experienced on 60% which don't have dedicated arrows cluster
The only issue i have its about gaming but i ve figured it out:
- In TMK layout, i ve added another layer that has normal spacebar through a toggle FN key
- I ve modified also the arrow clusters as WASD, its only subjective though

I actually included all sort of possibility to use secondary functions keys

- holding space as FN
- toggling a FN key

It may sound a bit complicated and complexe as own setup but in practicing, it works like a charm
I've set up Tab as a tap key for layer switching. Tab by itself makes a tab character, Tab+Q switches to QWERTY, Tab+D for Dvorak, and Tab+G for my gamer layout, which is just QWERTY with spacefn and winkeys disabled. Works pretty well.

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Offline keshley

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #287 on: Fri, 02 October 2015, 08:07:42 »
I'd add a couple items from the KBParadise V60: 1) Put in a DIP switch to change the control key to fn; 2) Add an arrow cluster to WASD and either move or eliminate the Mac-only media controls.

I think using space as fn while holding, its one of most clever ergonomic thing i ever ever experienced on 60% which don't have dedicated arrows cluster
The only issue i have its about gaming but i ve figured it out:
- In TMK layout, i ve added another layer that has normal spacebar through a toggle FN key
- I ve modified also the arrow clusters as WASD, its only subjective though

I actually included all sort of possibility to use secondary functions keys

- holding space as FN
- toggling a FN key

It may sound a bit complicated and complexe as own setup but in practicing, it works like a charm
I've set up Tab as a tap key for layer switching. Tab by itself makes a tab character, Tab+Q switches to QWERTY, Tab+D for Dvorak, and Tab+G for my gamer layout, which is just QWERTY with spacefn and winkeys disabled. Works pretty well.

Oooh, I like this idea. I'm stealing some of it.  :thumb:
  
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Offline njbair

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #288 on: Fri, 02 October 2015, 08:33:47 »
I'd add a couple items from the KBParadise V60: 1) Put in a DIP switch to change the control key to fn; 2) Add an arrow cluster to WASD and either move or eliminate the Mac-only media controls.

I think using space as fn while holding, its one of most clever ergonomic thing i ever ever experienced on 60% which don't have dedicated arrows cluster
The only issue i have its about gaming but i ve figured it out:
- In TMK layout, i ve added another layer that has normal spacebar through a toggle FN key
- I ve modified also the arrow clusters as WASD, its only subjective though

I actually included all sort of possibility to use secondary functions keys

- holding space as FN
- toggling a FN key

It may sound a bit complicated and complexe as own setup but in practicing, it works like a charm
I've set up Tab as a tap key for layer switching. Tab by itself makes a tab character, Tab+Q switches to QWERTY, Tab+D for Dvorak, and Tab+G for my gamer layout, which is just QWERTY with spacefn and winkeys disabled. Works pretty well.

Oooh, I like this idea. I'm stealing some of it.  :thumb:
Steal away, that's why I shared it!

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Online tominabox1

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #289 on: Fri, 02 October 2015, 10:34:12 »
I really want to love spaceFN but I just cant get past accidentally activating the FN. I changed the timing to 300ms in TMK and it still was frustrating to use.  Any longer than 300ms was too slow and is annoying to use the default layer and I don't even type that fast right now. Is there something else I should try before giving up completely?
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Offline njbair

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #290 on: Fri, 02 October 2015, 13:08:52 »
I really want to love spaceFN but I just cant get past accidentally activating the FN. I changed the timing to 300ms in TMK and it still was frustrating to use.  Any longer than 300ms was too slow and is annoying to use the default layer and I don't even type that fast right now. Is there something else I should try before giving up completely?

Work on speed. If you're accidentally activating the SpaceFn layer, you're spending too long pressing down on the keys.

I'm not trying to say "anyone who hates SpaceFn is wrong" or anything like that, but it seems to me that if you're spending 200ms on each key then there's something majorly wrong with your typing technique (IMHO).

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Online tominabox1

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #291 on: Fri, 02 October 2015, 14:34:21 »
I really want to love spaceFN but I just cant get past accidentally activating the FN. I changed the timing to 300ms in TMK and it still was frustrating to use.  Any longer than 300ms was too slow and is annoying to use the default layer and I don't even type that fast right now. Is there something else I should try before giving up completely?

Work on speed. If you're accidentally activating the SpaceFn layer, you're spending too long pressing down on the keys.

I'm not trying to say "anyone who hates SpaceFn is wrong" or anything like that, but it seems to me that if you're spending 200ms on each key then there's something majorly wrong with your typing technique (IMHO).

You may be right but I really don't think I hold the space down that long lol.

I will try to use it again... it really is the best place for a fn key I think.  Do you have any suggestions for being faster on the space bar aside from just using it more? I think as my speed improves I might actually have to hit the keys faster and alleviate the problem.

In TMK does the TAPPING_TOGGLE do anything of value here or should I focus on TAPPING_TERM
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Offline ideus

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #292 on: Fri, 02 October 2015, 15:14:42 »
Is Space-FN the best? Well, there is always tolerance for less efficient methods.

 :p :p :p
« Last Edit: Fri, 02 October 2015, 15:20:51 by ideus »

Offline ajx

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #293 on: Fri, 02 October 2015, 16:41:35 »
It cannot be the best for sure due to its own limitations (i.e gaming)
That why i ve added serveral layers of FN but Space as FN is  the one that i find the most ergonomic and efficient

Offline Ngt

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #294 on: Sun, 04 October 2015, 16:22:23 »
Is Space-FN the best? Well, there is always tolerance for less efficient methods.

 
Do you have other layout to suggest? Or are you just trolling pointlessly?

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Offline ideus

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #295 on: Sun, 04 October 2015, 17:22:58 »
Is Space-FN the best? Well, there is always tolerance for less efficient methods.

 
Show Image
Show Image
Show Image

Do you have other layout to suggest? Or are you just trolling pointlessly?
Show Image


What I meant is that Sp+FN is the best; however, some still use less efficient methods. But yeah, I am trolling sort of pointlessly.  :p

Offline Ngt

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #296 on: Mon, 05 October 2015, 01:38:19 »
Is Space-FN the best? Well, there is always tolerance for less efficient methods.

 
Show Image
Show Image
Show Image

Do you have other layout to suggest? Or are you just trolling pointlessly?
Show Image


What I meant is that Sp+FN is the best; however, some still use less efficient methods. But yeah, I am trolling sort of pointlessly. 
Oh ok. By less efficient do you mean having Fn on another key or less efficient SpaceFn layout?

Once I started to touch type it stroke me that having Fn on space was the best position. All the other positions force you to move your hand away from the home row.

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Offline ideus

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #297 on: Mon, 05 October 2015, 08:27:56 »
Is Space-FN the best? Well, there is always tolerance for less efficient methods.

 
Show Image
Show Image
Show Image

Do you have other layout to suggest? Or are you just trolling pointlessly?
Show Image


What I meant is that Sp+FN is the best; however, some still use less efficient methods. But yeah, I am trolling sort of pointlessly. 
Show Image

Oh ok. By less efficient do you mean having Fn on another key or less efficient SpaceFn layout?

Once I started to touch type it stroke me that having Fn on space was the best position. All the other positions force you to move your hand away from the home row.

It is a simple fact, your thumbs are already over the FN when typing, always; it follows that you can activate any other chorded command with the space bar plus other keys, the more accessible, are, of course, the home row.

Offline EvilOlivE

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #298 on: Mon, 05 October 2015, 14:03:33 »
Thanks for that link, there are some neat ideas in there.  I apologize though, I think my first post was a little vague.  My problem isn't really specific to CAD/AHK coding,  it's combining my existing macros into the SpaceFn script. 

For example, I tried this in the SpaceFn script to try and have Space+Q send "hello world" then the enter key. 
Code: [Select]
*w::dual.comboKey({F22: "Up"})
*a::dual.comboKey({F22: "Left"})
*s::dual.comboKey({F22: "Down"})
*d::dual.comboKey({F22: "Right"})
*q::dual.comboKey({F22: "Send hello world{enter}"})

The code above loads without any errors, Space+WASD all works, but Space+Q does nothing.  I'm obviously missing something.  How would I correct the code to send "hello world" when pressing Space+Q?  Once I understand this small step I can paste in some of my existing macros. 

Thanks!

You'll need to use the Dual API. This seems like it should work:

+q::dual.Send("hello, world")

Thanks for pointing me back to the Dual API, I've read through that a few times and I'm still unable to do what I want.  The code you suggested above only binds the Q key.  Wouldn't I still need dual.comboKey to leave Q alone until I press space+Q?  So, some variation of dual.comboKey + dual.send?  I feel like I'm usually pretty good at figuring things out with API documentation, but this is a little confusing to me.   Is anyone using SpaceFn to send a string of text? 


If you are in windows you can use Touch-Cursor for your FN commands; then, you can use AHK script for macros, without having them clashing.

Thanks, I tried Touch-Cursor too, the gui is nice but not having a timeout is a little bit of a deal breaker for me.  If I hold space, change my mind, then release, it still sends space.  The way I have AutoCAD set up, sending space sends the last run command.  That would get frustrating very quickly since I'm so fickle haha. 

Offline joc

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Re: The SpaceFN layout: trying to end keyboard inflation
« Reply #299 on: Mon, 05 October 2015, 21:02:43 »
Thanks for pointing me back to the Dual API, I've read through that a few times and I'm still unable to do what I want.  The code you suggested above only binds the Q key.  Wouldn't I still need dual.comboKey to leave Q alone until I press space+Q?  So, some variation of dual.comboKey + dual.send?  I feel like I'm usually pretty good at figuring things out with API documentation, but this is a little confusing to me.   Is anyone using SpaceFn to send a string of text? 

Here's a working solution:

Code: [Select]
q::
    dual.combo()
    if (GetKeyState("F22")) {
        dual.Send("hello, world")
    } else {
        Hotkey, q, Off
        SendInput q
        Hotkey, q, On
    }
    return

I agree that the Dual API documentation is confusing. A partial solution can be found under this section. I just added a couple of calls to the Hotkey function to prevent the hotkey from being recursive.
« Last Edit: Mon, 05 October 2015, 22:14:37 by joc »