Gaming - Topre 45g or Cherry MX Red?

[stealthbr]

Hello everyone. My Leopold Tenkeyless Cherry MX Red keyboard has developed an issue with the "D" key. Whenever I press it, either multiple D's come out, the key simply does not register, or the key stops registering randomly when I'm bottomed out while playing a game. Therefore, I have decided to get a new keyboard and would like to hear some opinions regarding whether I should purchase a Topre 45g or another Cherry MX Red. The most important factor towards my purchase is definitely gaming performance. I want the absolute best switch for gaming.

I have done some research and have found two models which I thought to be quite interesting. For the Topre 45g, the Realforce 45g TKL caught my eye. For the Cherry MX Red, the WASD v2 seems like the most attractive option. What do you guys think?

Thanks!

[Morwrath]

Mx Browns, better "middleway" for typing and gaming IMO.

[stealthbr]

Thank you for your input, but I am not looking for a "middleway". I want the absolute best switch for gaming. I'm not sure the tactile aspect of the Cherry MX Brown switch would bode well with my needs. I'll edit the OP to further elucidate this point.

[tuxsavvy]

Topre keyboards maybe are nice to type with but are incompatible with Cherry MX.

With Cherry MX one can easily interchange the switches by using basic tools if the switches are PCB mounted. Plate mounted Cherry MX would require rework without a doubt for starters. That said, if there are any issues with Cherry MX boards, it is possible to replace the affected switches as needed. Unlike Topre where if it fails, it would probably be because the board is defective, depending on what sort of damage (if any) it could result in costly repair. However, at the same time there has been no reports of defective or troublesome Topre boards apart from rubber dome hardening (to a small amount) to my knowledge.

Gaming on either boards heavily depends on one's perception. Personally because I have HHKB Pro (and these are Topre based) I try to not game with them because of the price that I had to fork out for mine. Topre boards in general may not cost as much but I guess the sense of paying for something a little exotic, it tends to be that gaming on them for instance puts ridiculous amounts of wear on certain rubber bits imo. If I were to seriously game, I would try to game with other keyboard switches (like for instance Cherry MX) where they are dime a dozen in general (compared to Topre as mine had to be imported). Also again, if say the rubber domes on my Topre starts to stiffen, I cannot simply go out and buy the rubber pads alone. I basically have to buy an entire keyboard just to source the items and put it onto my HHKB. Unlike Cherry MX for instance where the switch, housing and all comes in a nifty "package".

Of course in no way shape or form am against Topre and/or if it were to be used for gaming. I am sort of basically implying unless if one is rich, using Topre boards for gaming for instance seems to also be a bit of a waste. I am sure if in theory I were to game with my HHKB Pro it would be fun as the keys feels nice and soft (compared to my old but cheap membrane keyboard) but again it raises flags in my eyes over the price I had to pay for mine and a few other factors (such as no factory warranty and what happens if something goes wrong with my expensive keyboard) seems to inhibit my willingness.

A fair few people here have tried Topre (on this forum) and have somewhat preferred typing on Topre instead. You can probably imagine the feeling if owning a Topre board, it feels rather nice to type on and all for the price that you pay for it. Cherry MX does also have areas where they shine, notably in other areas such as customisability (Topre has quite little in fact). Though at the end of the day, they are almost two very different fish altogether.

[Tony]

Topre is good for RTS.

Red is better for FPS.

You decide.

[stealthbr]

Topre is good for RTS.

Red is better for FPS.

You decide.

Why is this the case? What makes Topre better for RTS and Reds better for FPS?

[Puddsy]

Nothing makes one better than the other.

I personally think MX is FAR superior for gaming, simply because the actuation point is easier to find, making it easy to do crazy switch floating maneuvers. Topre is a great typing switch, but at the highest level of gaming, it really is sub-par. I use reds for most of my gaming (CS:GO, TF2, DotA 2, GW2) now with no problems. It all comes down to layout in the end, IMO.

[Tony]

Why is this the case? What makes Topre better for RTS and Reds better for FPS?

Topre has bump while Red hasn't

[rowdy]

Thank you for your input, but I am not looking for a "middleway". I want the absolute best switch for gaming. I'm not sure the tactile aspect of the Cherry MX Brown switch would bode well with my needs. I'll edit the OP to further elucidate this point.

All you will get here is opinions.

To find the "best" keyboard for gaming for you, YOU will need to try various switches, layouts and boards.

Everyone else can only tell you what they like.

[SpAmRaY]

Thank you for your input, but I am not looking for a "middleway". I want the absolute best switch for gaming. I'm not sure the tactile aspect of the Cherry MX Brown switch would bode well with my needs. I'll edit the OP to further elucidate this point.

All you will get here is opinions.

To find the "best" keyboard for gaming for you, YOU will need to try various switches, layouts and boards.

Everyone else can only tell you what they like.

QFT!

This applies to not only gaming but any other keyboard use as well.

[nocturn4l3030]

Mx Browns, better "middleway" for typing and gaming IMO.

this can be fixed without having to buy a whole other keyboard.  check out the image

http://imgur.com/a/fyxIg

[BucklingSpring]

this can be fixed without having to buy a whole other keyboard.  check out the image
http://imgur.com/a/fyxIg

Nice little link up there. I didn't know Ripster was a switch shrink (and a good one that is). Thanks for sharing.

[Awful]

This goes with the gaming thing, but does anyone know of a single professional SC2 player using Topre?

[Puddsy]

This goes with the gaming thing, but does anyone know of a single professional SC2 player using Topre?

Most of them use leopolds with blues AFAIK

Never seen one use topre

Seen a few dota 2 players though.

[Permeability]

This goes with the gaming thing, but does anyone know of a single professional SC2 player using Topre?

Yup, I've seen TT1 and viOLeT use topres at some point in time.

[zoolzoo]

topre 45g and mx red are both good for gaming if you ask me

[fuzzybaffy]

Can't really speak for MX Reds, or any MX switch for that matter, but I find the Topres just fine for gaming.

[JoeUser]

In my opinion the whole "which is better for gaming" is a useless topic.

I've owned MS Blacks, Reds, Blues, and now use SMK's (like Blues but with a more pronounced "click") and either way it goes I game perfectly fine. No issues with any switch what so ever. Whether it's CoD, BF4, ARMA, Tomb Raider...WHATEVER...my performance doesn't suffer at all. What so ever.

So because GAMING is not an issue for me despite the switch used I more or less focus on which I like to type with more. So far the SMK's in my 22 year old keyboard have been the best I've ever used. Would like to try MX Greens but don't have to cash for a new keyboard (luckily the one I'm using now was $2 at a thrift shop and is in 9/10 condition).

So yeah...really best advice would be to just...try them all or at least the ones you're considering. Focus more on what you like to type with and then just use it for gaming like any other keyboard.

[skuko]

MX red all the way man

[rowdy]

You might also find that layout is more of a deciding factor in how useable a keyboard is for gaming.

A 60% board might be fine - unless you need function keys a lot.

A full size board might be good, unless you prefer to keep your mouse closer to the keyboard.

I find a TKL is probably the best compromise, or a 60% (I use HHKB) if you don't need function keys (F1 - F12) in the game.

[Oobly]

Just desolder the old "D" keyswitch and replace it with a new one. You're not going to find a better switch for gaming than the reds you already have.

You could try pulling the keycap, depressing the stem and spraying Deoxit towards the "back" of the switch inside (the taller part without the round LED area) to clean it, before resorting to replacing it. I use inverted commas, since some manufacturers mount the switches back to front.

Unless you find them a bit too soft and want something stiffer (MX Blacks), or want a tactile bump so you know when the switch is registering (MX Browns), or you want an even bigger bump AND stiffer action (MX Clears).

[stealthbr]

Thank you for all the input. I saw the picture showing how to fix the key, but I am rather inexperienced in these practices, so I fear for my keyboard's functionality lol. If anyone knows the link to a video that show exactly how to perform such a procedure, I would be grateful.

[MonoSky]

I never tried Topre keyboard my self but, I have fell in love with Reds. I first started out with black and found them to hard to press. Then I tried blues and it just wasn't for me. It was too annoying to press.. But reds were just perfect!

[mljs54]

I've been gaming primarily on Reds and use my RF 45g at the office for pure typing, but I did game on the RF exclusively before getting my Filco.

They are IMO the two best gaming switches, so you can't really go wrong.  But I personally wouldn't spend the money on a RF just for gaming, you're not going to get that much more out of it than a cheap MX Red board.  Typing is completely a different story IMO and where Topre really shines vs. MX.

Hopefully this opinion was helpful.  I recommend trying both.

[Linkbane]

They are IMO the two best gaming switches, so you can't really go wrong.  But I personally wouldn't spend the money on a RF just for gaming, you're not going to get that much more out of it than a cheap MX Red board.  Typing is completely a different story IMO and where Topre really shines vs. MX.

Don't trash talk other boards, please keep your insulting opinions to yourself.

OT: Reds are generally considered the best to go for gaming, or blacks if you prefer the greater pressure. Topres are not good for gaming at all in the sense that browns aren't great for gaming. Anyone telling you differently is blowing smoke up your arse, frankly. Whatever 'rts vs mmo' people are pulling out is again absolute bollocks.

Gaming is mechanically simpler on a linear switch. No way to argue that, it's just true. A linear is always easier to double tap due to having no tactile reset, and it's always lower pressure to press due to the lack of tactility, again. You'll probably like them, unless you don't press keys very much, in which case a tactile or clicky keyboard might be similar or better. Playing LoL, I like using blues because I don't actually ever have to double tap, and it's nice to have a confirmation. Better players' uses will, of course, vary wildly.

[danrew]

I personally find it a little hard to game with the HHKB, but that's mostly because I never fully got used to using the Caps lock for a control key.

[1pq]

I personally think MX is FAR superior for gaming, simply because the actuation point is easier to find, making it easy to do crazy switch floating maneuvers. Topre is a great typing switch, but at the highest level of gaming, it really is sub-par.

Totally agree with this

[mljs54]

They are IMO the two best gaming switches, so you can't really go wrong.  But I personally wouldn't spend the money on a RF just for gaming, you're not going to get that much more out of it than a cheap MX Red board.  Typing is completely a different story IMO and where Topre really shines vs. MX.

Don't trash talk other boards, please keep your insulting opinions to yourself.

How am I "trash talking" other boards?  I'm simply telling the OP if all he is looking for is a pure gaming board, a used/new MX Red board can be had for ~$60-90, while a RF is always a $200 board.

[danrew]

On a separate note, the build quality of the Japanese boards makes the keys far smoother than they're Cherry counterparts. There's a lot more key "wobble" in Cherry keys. The Topres on the other hand have very little lateral play. Probably a combination of the switch and the lower tolerances for the keys and housings.

[Linkbane]

On a separate note, the build quality of the Japanese boards makes the keys far smoother than they're Cherry counterparts. There's a lot more key "wobble" in Cherry keys. The Topres on the other hand have very little lateral play. Probably a combination of the switch and the lower tolerances for the keys and housings.

I'll say that from personal experience that's completely inaccurate. I've tried moose's HHKB and he was the first one to tell (and show) that the keys had just as much wobble. It's 100% the keycaps. If you have tight caps, there'll be no wobble. But a rubber dome under a spring with less lifetime can hardly be considered a higher tolerance.

[tbc]

my rf is pretty damn wobbleless.my minila with 3 different sets was very wobbly.

[terran5992]

my rf is pretty damn wobbleless.my minila with 3 different sets was very wobbly.

Yup. Topres dont wobble at all

[danrew]

On a separate note, the build quality of the Japanese boards makes the keys far smoother than they're Cherry counterparts. There's a lot more key "wobble" in Cherry keys. The Topres on the other hand have very little lateral play. Probably a combination of the switch and the lower tolerances for the keys and housings.

I'll say that from personal experience that's completely inaccurate. I've tried moose's HHKB and he was the first one to tell (and show) that the keys had just as much wobble. It's 100% the keycaps. If you have tight caps, there'll be no wobble. But a rubber dome under a spring with less lifetime can hardly be considered a higher tolerance.

What I really meant to say is that the tolerances in the keycaps and housing were tighter. I can only speak from personal experience, which is that my Filcos have much more wobble than my Realforce. My HHKB just happens to be the tightest of the bunch in that regard. Your mileage may vary.

[PointyFox]

Anything with a switch that has the same actuation and reset points is good for gaming.  I'm playing FPS games on a 70% 2KRO Cherry ML switch board right now.

[Oobly]

They are IMO the two best gaming switches, so you can't really go wrong.  But I personally wouldn't spend the money on a RF just for gaming, you're not going to get that much more out of it than a cheap MX Red board.  Typing is completely a different story IMO and where Topre really shines vs. MX.

Don't trash talk other boards, please keep your insulting opinions to yourself.

OT: Reds are generally considered the best to go for gaming, or blacks if you prefer the greater pressure. Topres are not good for gaming at all in the sense that browns aren't great for gaming. Anyone telling you differently is blowing smoke up your arse, frankly. Whatever 'rts vs mmo' people are pulling out is again absolute bollocks.

Gaming is mechanically simpler on a linear switch. No way to argue that, it's just true. A linear is always easier to double tap due to having no tactile reset, and it's always lower pressure to press due to the lack of tactility, again. You'll probably like them, unless you don't press keys very much, in which case a tactile or clicky keyboard might be similar or better. Playing LoL, I like using blues because I don't actually ever have to double tap, and it's nice to have a confirmation. Better players' uses will, of course, vary wildly.

Personally I find Browns perfect for gaming. The tactile point lets me know exactly when it will actuate and the lack of hysteresis means I can hover around the actuation point and double tap fast. I may be faster on Reds IF I take the time to get used to where the actuation point is, but to imply that Browns suck for gaming is just a personal opinion (and frankly insulting to me, since I game on Browns).

Back on topic: TO THE OP: Please try cleaning the switch before you go out and buy another board! Take the keycap off, spray some Deoxit or other contact cleaner into the switch and press it a bunch before plugging the keyboard in again and testing.

[stealthbr]

I did try cleaning it, but to no avail. I have decided to buy another Cherry MX Red keyboard. With that in mind, which would be the better purchase, a CM Storm Quickfire Rapid or a customized WASD v2?

[osi]

I did try cleaning it, but to no avail. I have decided to buy another Cherry MX Red keyboard. With that in mind, which would be the better purchase, a CM Storm Quickfire Rapid or a customized WASD v2?

Whichever suits your wallet better. Don't think you'd be disappointed in either

[taylordcraig]

I personally need the click.
Love my whites. Don't like my browns anymore.
I don't like linear switches. Even for gaming.

[Puddsy]

I did try cleaning it, but to no avail. I have decided to buy another Cherry MX Red keyboard. With that in mind, which would be the better purchase, a CM Storm Quickfire Rapid or a customized WASD v2?

Whichever suits your wallet better. Don't think you'd be disappointed in either

+1

[Oobly]

I did try cleaning it, but to no avail. I have decided to buy another Cherry MX Red keyboard. With that in mind, which would be the better purchase, a CM Storm Quickfire Rapid or a customized WASD v2?

Whichever suits your wallet better. Don't think you'd be disappointed in either

+1

+2

[MKULTRA]

Either will work.  There are pro gamers who use Topre and MX Reds.  Seriously just choose whatever is most comfortable to you, because realistically the switches you use are not going to affect how good you are.  Lets remember that Korean BW players used ****ty $10 rubber dome keyboards for years.

Also before you go off buying a new board, spray some contact cleaner into that switch, may help with the chatter.  Could be a debouncing issue aswell.

On that note, seriously there is no best switch for gaming and don't delude yourself into believing there is.  It is all just personal preference, whatever you are comfortable with.

[Candyflip]

Lets remember that Korean BW players used ****ty $10 rubber dome keyboards for years.

I remember those rubber dome Qsenn boards that everyone praised (some even ordered from Korea) only because BW pros used them, even tho it was a probably <$10 keyboard 

[MKULTRA]

Lets remember that Korean BW players used ****ty $10 rubber dome keyboards for years.

I remember those rubber dome Qsenn boards that everyone praised (some even ordered from Korea) only because BW pros used them, even tho it was a probably <$10 keyboard 

That is exactly what they were.  The players went through keyboards very fast so teams sought out a cheap keyboard to fill a closet with.

[stealthbr]

In terms of durability though, will they be the same? I ask because one of my main concerns is how long the keyboard lasts and is perfectly functional.

[PointyFox]

In terms of durability though, will they be the same? I ask because one of my main concerns is how long the keyboard lasts and is perfectly functional.

I've seen Topre rated at both >30 million and >50 million keystrokes while Cherry MX are rated at >50 million.  Though I don't think this matters since keyboards usually die way before this due to controller problems or people spilling something into them.  I am not sure how the rate of controller problems compares between the two types of boards.

[MKULTRA]

In terms of durability though, will they be the same? I ask because one of my main concerns is how long the keyboard lasts and is perfectly functional.

They will both take quite a lot of abuse.  At Topre's price range you could possibly get a custom MX keyboard in the classifieds.  At $150 you could buy a Filco which is pretty much the most durable production MX keyboard you can get.

tl;dr durablity of both are great.

[Mainian]

In terms of durability though, will they be the same? I ask because one of my main concerns is how long the keyboard lasts and is perfectly functional.

Honestly, you should go with the CM board. It's build quality is top notch, and it's cheaper. They will last the same, and the removable cable is a big plus (at least for moving it around, ect). The only reason to buy the WASD V2 87 would be for no logos and if you want, order customized keys with it.

On the flip side, if you're spending that much on the WASD. I'd honestly just pick up a topre.

I've gamed on cherry mx red, mx black, mx brown, mx blue, and topre 45 uniform. I've enjoyed the brown's, blue's, and topre's the best. My typing speed on the topre was amazing. However, I would strongly suggest not picking up a topre if you play a lot of FPS. Remember, a lot of pros keyboards come from sponsor's, so they may just play with what they are giving. Although, I'm sure most of the RTS players use what's best for them.

tl;dr If you want cherry mx red, get the cm board. There's no advantage besides ascetics for choosing the WASD. 

[stealthbr]

Cool! Thanks for the great answers. I will grabbing the Quickfire Rapid. I suppose it will match my mouse as well, since it's a CM Storm Spawn.

[PointyFox]

In terms of durability though, will they be the same? I ask because one of my main concerns is how long the keyboard lasts and is perfectly functional.

They will both take quite a lot of abuse.  At Topre's price range you could possibly get a custom MX keyboard in the classifieds.  At $150 you could buy a Filco which is pretty much the most durable production MX keyboard you can get.

tl;dr durablity of both are great.

I've had 2 Filcos and 1 QFR fail due to the controllers going bad.

[PointyFox]

In terms of durability though, will they be the same? I ask because one of my main concerns is how long the keyboard lasts and is perfectly functional.

Honestly, you should go with the CM board. It's build quality is top notch, and it's cheaper. They will last the same, and the removable cable is a big plus (at least for moving it around, ect). The only reason to buy the WASD V2 87 would be for no logos and if you want, order customized keys with it.

On the flip side, if you're spending that much on the WASD. I'd honestly just pick up a topre.

I've gamed on cherry mx red, mx black, mx brown, mx blue, and topre 45 uniform. I've enjoyed the brown's, blue's, and topre's the best. My typing speed on the topre was amazing. However, I would strongly suggest not picking up a topre if you play a lot of FPS. Remember, a lot of pros keyboards come from sponsor's, so they may just play with what they are giving. Although, I'm sure most of the RTS players use what's best for them.

tl;dr If you want cherry mx red, get the cm board. There's no advantage besides ascetics for choosing the WASD. 

I don't think an ascetic would buy a WASD keyboard.