The death of the manual transmission.

[terrpn]

Using a manual transmission doesn't require that much more effort; I regularly drive a manual while texting on my phone and smoking a cigarette without really thinking about it. It does give your car much greater utility though. I suspect (know) this is entirely a North American phenomenon though. Manual transmission will remain overwhelmingly dominant in the rest of the world (particularly Europe) until electric cars phase out transmissions completely.

Whats going to happen to enthusiasts on race tracks? Will we have to worry about overclocking our cars?

everything is 2 speed power glides these days- 1/4 mile, 1/8 mile

i had a 4 sp in a '65 corvette, etc. is a blast to drive, but the technology out these days as far as going fast is far better with an automatic

most cars running a clutch, etc. these days are routinely seen more at the nostalgic races than a normal track

been there done that

[terrpn]

here's some eye candy for you guys

keyboards and hot rods-- yikes!

tucked inside for the winter

[Malphas]

Using a manual transmission doesn't require that much more effort; I regularly drive a manual while texting on my phone and smoking a cigarette without really thinking about it. It does give your car much greater utility though. I suspect (know) this is entirely a North American phenomenon though. Manual transmission will remain overwhelmingly dominant in the rest of the world (particularly Europe) until electric cars phase out transmissions completely.

Whats going to happen to enthusiasts on race tracks? Will we have to worry about overclocking our cars?

I seriously doubt electric cars will completely phase out IC engines during your lifetime.  Even if they do for the masses, you'd likely still be able to buy/build your own car.  So the enthusiasts will continue to be enthusiasts, existing in a specialized, niche market.

Exactly. You can still go out and drive a Ford Model T if that's what floats your boat, it's just a niche hobby rather than mainstream. The same thing will happen with combustion engine vehicles once electric cars are the norm.

I don't like the idea of electric cars, but it's going to happen one day. Same way we will all die if we don't find technology to travel to different planets.
As long as I can have electric with a manual, I might be ok.
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1084116_700-hp-electric-honda-s2000-built-by-high-schooler-video

Most people who dislike the idea of electric cars don't know enough about them to make a rational decision, or are being overly sentimental about trivial things like the engine noise, or the smell of fumes (which are positive through association, rather than inherently desirable features). Other than battery issues, electric cars are excellent. Ignorant people associate electric motors with consumer hardware, things like RC cars, pumps, hairdryers, etc., and think combustion engines are more powerful. They're wrong. High speed trains are electric, aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines use electric motors.

[iri]

electric cars with direct drive motors can have very simple, almost unbreakable construction. not sure how this fits well into today's consumerist economy.

[Oobly]

electric cars with direct drive motors can have very simple, almost unbreakable construction. not sure how this fits well into today's consumerist economy.

The batteries don't last. The higher energy and power capacity Lithium based batteries can last as few as 200 cycles before they need replacing. More conservative ones can last a few thousand.

So you replace batteries every few years in lieu of other mechanical or electrical parts. Of course they are not very ecological or economical besides the poor power to weight ratio. Electric cars are not more environmentally friendly or even lower carbon footprint when you take battery manufacture and transport into account.

[iri]

electric cars with direct drive motors can have very simple, almost unbreakable construction. not sure how this fits well into today's consumerist economy.

The batteries don't last.

neither does petrol.

or fuel cells.

Electric cars are not more environmentally friendly or even lower carbon footprint when you take battery manufacture and transport into account.

it is possible to manufacture and utilize batteries in less environmentally conscious places.

[Jocky]

I'm very interested in cars powered by electricity. Cleaner and quieter to run and of course less pollution.

LiPo batteries last longer though more expensive. I'm into RC cars for years. I'm thinking if they use the same principles and approach to electric cars.

Anyway, you're making my day. Very entertaining conversations.

[C5Allroad]

The model S is a great example... Amazing car. I took a ride in one... It was absolutely amazing. Still, I need my manual. But I guess it will die out like the floppy died.

[Oobly]

The model S is a great example... Amazing car. I took a ride in one... It was absolutely amazing. Still, I need my manual. But I guess it will die out like the floppy died.

Bah humbug... Floppies aren't dead. I use one for flashing ROMs to my graphics cards....

I like the IDEA of electric cars, but I'm afraid there some practical limitations which rule them out for me right now.

IF the manufacture of batteries were completely environmentally friendly, they lasted a long time (say 10,000 cycles or more), were recycled properly, stored more energy per kg and the electricity used to charge them comes from renewable sources, then I would reconsider.

However:

Batteries are expensive to make, expensive to purchase, heavy, don't store enough energy, hard to dispose of and don't last long enough.

The manufacture and disposal are big factors for me. The processes used in manufacturing Lithium Ion batteries of the type used by Tesla have quite bad negative impact on the environment: http://www.greenfleetmagazine.com/news/51536/study-identifies-environmental-and-health-impacts-of-lithium-ion-batteries-for-evs

"The environmental impacts include resource depletion, global warming, and ecological toxicity — primarily resulting from the production, processing, and use of cobalt and nickel metal compounds"

Most Lithium batteries are not recycled, largely since mining costs less than recycling.

The type of battery used in the Tesla Model S lasts roughly 500 cycles if treated well....

Not to mention the electricity used needs to come from some renewable source that doesn't pollute.

I'd rather drive a small, light, fuel efficient car with a manual gearbox, thank you.

[thadood]

Rocking a manual in my 2013 GTI. Manual in US = theft prevention, any more.

[HoffmanMyster]

Rocking a manual in my 2013 GTI. Manual in US = theft prevention, any more.

Also = hassle at the valet, frequently.   

[ggghettoblasta]

oh so your dad is buying the car. gotcha.

for what it's worth, i'd go with the brz. simply for the rally blue.

5k more for a different paint job and leather interior isn't really worth it. I just test drove the 2014 sti hatch and I think I'm in love, just need to find out the trade in value for my 06 wrx wagon 

[thadood]

Rocking a manual in my 2013 GTI. Manual in US = theft prevention, any more.

Also = hassle at the valet, frequently.   

HEY EVERYONE, HOFFMANMYSTER HAS FANCY PARTIES THAT REQUIRE VALETS!

Actually, I'm sure they're more common in larger metro areas. Just not around my area.

[HoffmanMyster]

Rocking a manual in my 2013 GTI. Manual in US = theft prevention, any more.

Also = hassle at the valet, frequently.   

HEY EVERYONE, HOFFMANMYSTER HAS FANCY PARTIES THAT REQUIRE VALETS!

Actually, I'm sure they're more common in larger metro areas. Just not around my area.

Bahahaha, I have simply gone to a couple restaurants with mandatory valets.  In the city, of course.  And not very often.  Don't judge me!

[Grim Fandango]

Here in Holland (and most other places in Europe I imagine) manual transmissions are still kind of the standard, though there is indeed a trend towards auto-transmission. I have some friends from the US and Canada, and they can not even drive manual transmission, which surprised me at first. I assumed (incorrectly) that they also learned how to drive with manual transmission.

[HoffmanMyster]

Here in Holland (and most other places in Europe I imagine) manual transmissions are still kind of the standard, though there is indeed a trend towards auto-transmission. I have some friends from the US and Canada, and they can not even drive manual transmission, which surprised me at first. I assumed (incorrectly) that they also learned how to drive with manual transmission.

Nah.  And where I'm from if you learn on a manual transmission, you're considered a weirdo.  Most people that end up learning manual learn auto first and then "advance" to manual.  That's what I did myself.

[iri]

Rocking a manual in my 2013 GTI. Manual in US = theft prevention, any more.

Also = hassle at the valet, frequently.   

[katushkin]

'91 Mk2 Golf checking in.

5 speed manual and no power steering. Living in the dark ages FTW

[HoffmanMyster]

'91 Mk2 Golf checking in.

5 speed manual and no power steering. Living in the dark ages FTW

Nice car!  I've been after one of those for awhile now, just haven't pulled the trigger on anything.

[C5Allroad]

oh so your dad is buying the car. gotcha.

for what it's worth, i'd go with the brz. simply for the rally blue.

5k more for a different paint job and leather interior isn't really worth it. I just test drove the 2014 sti hatch and I think I'm in love, just need to find out the trade in value for my 06 wrx wagon 

I also applied to 3 different best buys lol. My parents aren't really buying things for I sell and buy.
FR-S is so sexy don't really like that plastic on the front of the BRZ.

'91 Mk2 Golf checking in.

5 speed manual and no power steering. Living in the dark ages FTW

Nice car!  I've been after one of those for awhile now, just haven't pulled the trigger on anything.

I drove my buddies TC, and he remove the power-steering and A/C. That car is a death yep here in Miami when it's hot.
If manual dies out, I will cry. The only cars in Audis line up that have manual as of now are the A4/S4. That's it. I'm assuming the B9 body will have no manual.
I love how in every other country manual is standard and plentiful. In Brazil that's all we drive.

[Malphas]

The model S is a great example... Amazing car. I took a ride in one... It was absolutely amazing. Still, I need my manual. But I guess it will die out like the floppy died.

You don't need a manual in an electric. It would offer no advantage whatsoever and would most likely be a hindrance. That's just wanting a manual so you can play around with a stick and feel more important or something somehow.

[C5Allroad]

What exactly do you mean feel more important?
Why would some one feel more important just because they can drive stick?

[Malphas]

In places where manual transmission isn't the norm (i.e. North America), people who choose to use a manual may feel a modicum of elitism as a result. I'm just postulating though (which is why I said "or something") because I don't get why someone would say they "need" a manual in a vehicle where it offers no benefit whatsoever other than irrational reasons like that.

[neun_sechs_zwei]

valuable skill... you may need it to operate a particular car... but it's just an artifact of how engines work and it's irrelevant to whether or not you understand vehicle dynamics if you're talking about actually extracting performance out of a car.

[Malphas]

Well no, it actually is beneficial to extracting performance out of a combustion engine car, versus a standard automatic transmission. Not just performance, but also saving wear and tear on brakes, being able to drive safely on icy roads, etc.

However on an electric car all those benefits go out the window, and I can't see any reason for insisting you need a manual in an electric other than silly, vainglorious reasons. I don't buy the "valuable skill" argument - once you've learned how to use gears you don't unlearn it by driving an automatic. Plus if you can already drive an automatic it takes about five minutes to learn how to use a manual anyway, it's hardly rocket science.

[neun_sechs_zwei]

Well no, it actually is beneficial to extracting performance out of a combustion engine car, versus a standard automatic transmission. Not just performance, but also saving wear and tear on brakes, being able to drive safely on icy roads, etc.

However on an electric car all those benefits go out the window, and I can't see any reason for insisting you need a manual in an electric other than silly, vainglorious reasons. I don't buy the "valuable skill" argument - once you've learned how to use gears you don't unlearn it by driving an automatic. Plus if you can already drive an automatic it takes about five minutes to learn how to use a manual anyway, it's hardly rocket science.

That wasn't really my point—my point is that understanding vehicle dynamics is say 99% of driving on icy roads, or on a racetrack, or avoiding a collision. If you want to go to a track day, it's not gonna matter if you've got an automatic sedan or a manual sportscar or a PDK Porsche. Talking about anything else is just armchair racing.

And no it's not rocket science but you better be able to do it all second-nature if your attention is going to be otherwise occupied.

The reason it's a useful skill is because you may get into a manual car and need to operate it properly without thinking about it. And no, I don't mean the level of capability from learning it in five minutes.

[neun_sechs_zwei]

Anyway, back to the original question, I don't lament it because the reason I'll end up with one is because the car's old and that's what it came with—the new car can come with PDK or whatever and I'll think about it for about ten seconds before I move on permanently. The people who do lament it, though, fall into two categories: real enthusiasts who just happen to care about this topic (and have my empathy despite my apathy), and armchair racers (who don't).

[Malphas]

That wasn't really my point—my point is that understanding vehicle dynamics is say 99% of driving on icy roads, or on a racetrack, or avoiding a collision. If you want to go to a track day, it's not gonna matter if you've got an automatic sedan or a manual sportscar or a PDK Porsche. Talking about anything else is just armchair racing.

Well, you're wrong unfortunately. Standard automatic transmissions take away a great deal of control which doesn't matter in day to day driving but is necessary in certain conditions. On North American roads it's not such a big deal, but elsewhere it matters which is why automatic never really took off in Europe and other places, where it's impractical.

[C5Allroad]

In places where manual transmission isn't the norm (i.e. North America), people who choose to use a manual may feel a modicum of elitism as a result. I'm just postulating though (which is why I said "or something") because I don't get why someone would say they "need" a manual in a vehicle where it offers no benefit whatsoever other than irrational reasons like that.

It isn't really HEY LOOK AT ME I CAN DRIVE A STICK! It's the fact that I really do enjoy driving manual. No matter what kind of car. I drove a 91 stealth and had more fun in it than I do in my allroad, despite it having a bad syncrho in 2nd gear.

Well no, it actually is beneficial to extracting performance out of a combustion engine car, versus a standard automatic transmission. Not just performance, but also saving wear and tear on brakes, being able to drive safely on icy roads, etc.

However on an electric car all those benefits go out the window, and I can't see any reason for insisting you need a manual in an electric other than silly, vainglorious reasons. I don't buy the "valuable skill" argument - once you've learned how to use gears you don't unlearn it by driving an automatic. Plus if you can already drive an automatic it takes about five minutes to learn how to use a manual anyway, it's hardly rocket science.

I don't really need a manual on an electric car, just really thinking that it would be really cool. Seeing as how the engine for the Tesla Model S is the size of a water melon.....

Well no, it actually is beneficial to extracting performance out of a combustion engine car, versus a standard automatic transmission. Not just performance, but also saving wear and tear on brakes, being able to drive safely on icy roads, etc.

However on an electric car all those benefits go out the window, and I can't see any reason for insisting you need a manual in an electric other than silly, vainglorious reasons. I don't buy the "valuable skill" argument - once you've learned how to use gears you don't unlearn it by driving an automatic. Plus if you can already drive an automatic it takes about five minutes to learn how to use a manual anyway, it's hardly rocket science.

That wasn't really my point—my point is that understanding vehicle dynamics is say 99% of driving on icy roads, or on a racetrack, or avoiding a collision. If you want to go to a track day, it's not gonna matter if you've got an automatic sedan or a manual sportscar or a PDK Porsche. Talking about anything else is just armchair racing.

And no it's not rocket science but you better be able to do it all second-nature if your attention is going to be otherwise occupied.

The reason it's a useful skill is because you may get into a manual car and need to operate it properly without thinking about it. And no, I don't mean the level of capability from learning it in five minutes.

It's only useful if you travel to other countries really... Here in the U.S. there are at most 4 cars that have a manual transmission on any given day....
However in Brazil there are no automatic transmissions, since they are still really expensive.

That wasn't really my point—my point is that understanding vehicle dynamics is say 99% of driving on icy roads, or on a racetrack, or avoiding a collision. If you want to go to a track day, it's not gonna matter if you've got an automatic sedan or a manual sportscar or a PDK Porsche. Talking about anything else is just armchair racing.

Well, you're wrong unfortunately. Standard automatic transmissions take away a great deal of control which doesn't matter in day to day driving but is necessary in certain conditions. On North American roads it's not such a big deal, but elsewhere it matters which is why automatic never really took off in Europe and other places, where it's impractical.

There is almost no control unless it's a S-tronic from BMW or Tip-tronic from audi. Nowadays so many cars have that whole deal of being able to chose what gear your car stays in. The thing is that if you need to dump the clutch to get the car to launch, then hold the brakes and gas and let go of brakes in an automatic car. Going up a hill some autos have trouble staying in a gear, thus they up shift and lose all the torque.

Also, another thing is that here in America people say 'oh it looks hard so I'll just buy an auto.'

[Oobly]

Here in Finland, the driving school I went to only use manuals for teaching. We also have a madatory slippery conditions section of the training (which you use your own car for) where you learn how to control a car on different surfaces and when you lose traction. It's expensive (around 2000euro for the full course), but mandatory for getting a license and very, very much worth it.

Winter conditions here can get very tricky and everyone who has a license can handle it well enough. It also brings out some interesting discussions of rear wheel drive vs front vs 4, etc. Lots of Subarus here Front wheel drive is certainly easier than rear wheel in slippery conditions, but 4 is best, especially with Torsen type limited slip diffs.

That said, I'm very happy with my Golf. Even happier when driving my old Mini, though  You don't need a lot of power to have a lot of fun.

Finns love to drive, in general.

[rowdy]

Here in Finland, the driving school I went to only use manuals for teaching. We also have a madatory slippery conditions section of the training (which you use your own car for) where you learn how to control a car on different surfaces and when you lose traction. It's expensive (around 2000euro for the full course), but mandatory for getting a license and very, very much worth it.

Winter conditions here can get very tricky and everyone who has a license can handle it well enough. It also brings out some interesting discussions of rear wheel drive vs front vs 4, etc. Lots of Subarus here Front wheel drive is certainly easier than rear wheel in slippery conditions, but 4 is best, especially with Torsen type limited slip diffs.

That said, I'm very happy with my Golf. Even happier when driving my old Mini, though  You don't need a lot of power to have a lot of fun.

Finns love to drive, in general.

That sounds like a great idea!  If you want to drive, then you have to put in the money and time to learn properly, in all conditions.  Makes sense

[retsteel]

I was going to avoid this thread, but I felt the need to chime in. As a die hard fan of manual transmission I think that they are not only fun, but really necessary for greater control. (in a standard internal combustion engine, I realize that they are unnecessary in electric cars, even in my prius I got the feeling of what it might be like to drive an electric car, and it was cool, despite the lack of my precious manual).

This winter has been rough here in Minisnowta, but with my manual I have been able to avoid incident. That is not to say that I wouldn't have had an issue, but I was able to use the greater control and feel that I have with a manual to my advantage. For comparison my dad drives a car very similar to mine except his is automatic. I was driving it for the first time this winter, and I nearly immediately had an accident, it was at an intersection near my house that I get through all the time just fine using engine braking, but on that auto, even being super cautious I couldn't hold it at all.

This isn't always the case, the car I drive is very simplistic, an 02 Saturn SL2, no traction control, anti-lock brakes, anything of the sort, my dad's car also lacks these features, in the snow his is nearly undrivable, mine is somewhat difficult but still very easy to control if you pay attention and know what you are doing (and yes, he agrees with me on this). Driving a car with an auto that has Anti-lock brakes and traction control and all of those newfangled things in the snow is easier than either of them in my opinion, but that's not really relevant to my comparison, as I haven't had the pleasure of driving a car with modern features and a manual transmission.

The bottom line is that in my life a manual transmission isn't just something that I kind of enjoy, it serves a tangible purpose, whether it be control in the snow, or push starting the car when I left the lights on, or simply the better control and understanding of the conditions of the road that I get as a result, having a manual transmission is definitely an important thing to me.

TL;DR Manual best, you're all fools, I am a driving god. (not really on that last part)

[C5Allroad]

Here in Finland, the driving school I went to only use manuals for teaching. We also have a madatory slippery conditions section of the training (which you use your own car for) where you learn how to control a car on different surfaces and when you lose traction. It's expensive (around 2000euro for the full course), but mandatory for getting a license and very, very much worth it.

Winter conditions here can get very tricky and everyone who has a license can handle it well enough. It also brings out some interesting discussions of rear wheel drive vs front vs 4, etc. Lots of Subarus here Front wheel drive is certainly easier than rear wheel in slippery conditions, but 4 is best, especially with Torsen type limited slip diffs.

That said, I'm very happy with my Golf. Even happier when driving my old Mini, though  You don't need a lot of power to have a lot of fun.

Finns love to drive, in general.

Ah I've seen those courses. Looks fun when they hook up a doodad on your car that lifts it up a bit so you lose traction and you have to counter steer.

I was going to avoid this thread, but I felt the need to chime in. As a die hard fan of manual transmission I think that they are not only fun, but really necessary for greater control. (in a standard internal combustion engine, I realize that they are unnecessary in electric cars, even in my prius I got the feeling of what it might be like to drive an electric car, and it was cool, despite the lack of my precious manual).

This winter has been rough here in Minisnowta, but with my manual I have been able to avoid incident. That is not to say that I wouldn't have had an issue, but I was able to use the greater control and feel that I have with a manual to my advantage. For comparison my dad drives a car very similar to mine except his is automatic. I was driving it for the first time this winter, and I nearly immediately had an accident, it was at an intersection near my house that I get through all the time just fine using engine braking, but on that auto, even being super cautious I couldn't hold it at all.

This isn't always the case, the car I drive is very simplistic, an 02 Saturn SL2, no traction control, anti-lock brakes, anything of the sort, my dad's car also lacks these features, in the snow his is nearly undrivable, mine is somewhat difficult but still very easy to control if you pay attention and know what you are doing (and yes, he agrees with me on this). Driving a car with an auto that has Anti-lock brakes and traction control and all of those newfangled things in the snow is easier than either of them in my opinion, but that's not really relevant to my comparison, as I haven't had the pleasure of driving a car with modern features and a manual transmission.

The bottom line is that in my life a manual transmission isn't just something that I kind of enjoy, it serves a tangible purpose, whether it be control in the snow, or push starting the car when I left the lights on, or simply the better control and understanding of the conditions of the road that I get as a result, having a manual transmission is definitely an important thing to me.

TL;DR Manual best, you're all fools, I am a driving god. (not really on that last part)

Very well said.
Here in Miami it's more of a fun factor until traffic starts slowing down.
When it rains that's really when it's necessary. No one can drive here.

[Elrick]

In places where manual transmission isn't the norm (i.e. North America), people who choose to use a manual may feel a modicum of elitism as a result.

Here in Oz one of the 3rd year apprentices just bought a 2014 HSV GTS for a cheap price.  He got the 6-speed manual because how could you do a burn out with an automatic?

Of course the auto trans here would cost an extra $2500.00AUD, so why would you even bother?

[bueller]

In places where manual transmission isn't the norm (i.e. North America), people who choose to use a manual may feel a modicum of elitism as a result.

Here in Oz one of the 3rd year apprentices just bought a 2014 HSV GTS for a cheap price.  He got the 6-speed manual because how could you do a burn out with an automatic?

Of course the auto trans here would cost an extra $2500.00AUD, so why would you even bother?

LOL wouldn't be an apprentice without a hotted up commie!

[iri]

Here in Finland, the driving school I went to only use manuals for teaching. We also have a madatory slippery conditions section of the training (which you use your own car for) where you learn how to control a car on different surfaces and when you lose traction. It's expensive (around 2000euro for the full course), but mandatory for getting a license and very, very much worth it.

so, to get a license in finland you have to own a car and pay 2000 euro?

Finns love to drive, in general.

also sometimes finns love giving other drivers an eyeful in the night.
also sometimes finns love not giving a **** about speed cams.

[katushkin]

'91 Mk2 Golf checking in.

5 speed manual and no power steering. Living in the dark ages FTW

Nice car!  I've been after one of those for awhile now, just haven't pulled the trigger on anything.

Thanks I've had her for about three months so far, and I'm looking into things to do with her. Going to change the old manky carpets, get the seats cleaned up and change the boot liner while adding a pair of amps and a pair of subs. Then I'm looking into dropping a VR6 engine in there, not sure how new I can go and how far my budget will stretch but I would love to get a 3.2l one out of a Porsche Cayenne 

Then put her on bags and get some nice wheels

[thadood]

Here in Finland, the driving school I went to only use manuals for teaching. We also have a madatory slippery conditions section of the training (which you use your own car for) where you learn how to control a car on different surfaces and when you lose traction. It's expensive (around 2000euro for the full course), but mandatory for getting a license and very, very much worth it.

Winter conditions here can get very tricky and everyone who has a license can handle it well enough. It also brings out some interesting discussions of rear wheel drive vs front vs 4, etc. Lots of Subarus here Front wheel drive is certainly easier than rear wheel in slippery conditions, but 4 is best, especially with Torsen type limited slip diffs.

That said, I'm very happy with my Golf. Even happier when driving my old Mini, though  You don't need a lot of power to have a lot of fun.

Finns love to drive, in general.

That sounds like a great idea!  If you want to drive, then you have to put in the money and time to learn properly, in all conditions.  Makes sense

Top Gear did a pretty awesome segment about Finnish license requirements. If even half of it is true, it's still amazing and is something that we should have in the US.

[HoffmanMyster]

Here in Finland, the driving school I went to only use manuals for teaching. We also have a madatory slippery conditions section of the training (which you use your own car for) where you learn how to control a car on different surfaces and when you lose traction. It's expensive (around 2000euro for the full course), but mandatory for getting a license and very, very much worth it.

Winter conditions here can get very tricky and everyone who has a license can handle it well enough. It also brings out some interesting discussions of rear wheel drive vs front vs 4, etc. Lots of Subarus here Front wheel drive is certainly easier than rear wheel in slippery conditions, but 4 is best, especially with Torsen type limited slip diffs.

That said, I'm very happy with my Golf. Even happier when driving my old Mini, though  You don't need a lot of power to have a lot of fun.

Finns love to drive, in general.

That sounds like a great idea!  If you want to drive, then you have to put in the money and time to learn properly, in all conditions.  Makes sense

Top Gear did a pretty awesome segment about Finnish license requirements. If even half of it is true, it's still amazing and is something that we should have in the US.

It's probably mostly true.  I am not from Finland, but we had some Finnish people come to my high school for a year (they had family members that had been attending the school for many years) both to get some cross-cultural experience and to get their drivers licenses.  Apparently if you get the license in the US while living there, it's much more reasonable and affordable to transfer it back to Finland than to just do it in Finland.

[C5Allroad]

That top gear episode was amazing.
Finnies can drift and really control a car.
Makes me jealous lol.

[Oobly]

Well you don't need to have your own car, but they encourage you to use the car you will be driving afterwards to do that part of the course with. And you may be able to find a cheaper school, but you still have to go through essentially the same training. It includes a bunch of lectures, at least 18 hours of driving with an instructor, slippery conditions, car control and night driving along with a written test. You get a provisional license which is valid for 2 years and have to come back and do an evaluation after at least 6 months. Then you get your permanent license.

One of my favourite parts of the training was taking the car around a slippery bend at 40km/h. The first time you invariably spin out. Then you try at 30 and slowly build back up to 40 and eventually you go round at 40 without sliding. Great feeling! I discovered I really don't like the feeling of ABS kicking in strongly on the Golf (Mk5).

Is this the clip you mean? 

[C5Allroad]

That is exactly the video that I was talking about.
Anyone know of any of those course in good ol' Murica?
And when they rally in that merc is exactly what I was talking about, dump clutch and flick the car.

[Oobly]

Some Finnish driving:

Too bad we didn't practice this on that course.

[smarmar]

'91 Mk2 Golf checking in.

5 speed manual and no power steering. Living in the dark ages FTW

Nice car!  I've been after one of those for awhile now, just haven't pulled the trigger on anything.

I know, I know...this might be a dead thread but it's a great subject and I just ran across it, so...

I recently sold my MKIII super-charged, short-shifter Golf GL. It was probably my most fun-driving car I've ever had and it was my main vehicle for 12 years. Then the breakdowns became more and more frequent until I could no longer rely on it as a primary transport 
I had to get something else quickly and under budget so now I'm in a 2011 2.5L Golf. Not the same fun-factor but at least it's manual, which, by the way, was very difficult to find in a decent, used car. I saw plenty of GTIs, which I was mainly looking for, but almost all were automatics! That makes no sense!

[iri]

I want an electric Golf. It does 0-60 faster than a GTi...

[dgneo]

Thoroughly enjoying the DSG on my R32. Would prefer completely manual, but considering I deal with a lot of stop and go traffic, this is the best of both worlds IMO.

[iLLucionist]

I have control issues! Gimme manual!

[fanpeople]

Just read through this whole thread, prepared some responses and then realised this was a necro.


****.

[FoxWolf1]

I have no idea how to use a manual, and probably never will.

Nothing good ever came of my efforts to figure out how to work the transmission on my bike as a kid-- actually nothing good ever came of my efforts to figure out how to ride a bike in general, but the transmission was a particularly expeditious source of injury. If the one in a car is anything like that, I think it's probably best if I leave it alone.

[iLLucionist]

Just read through this whole thread, prepared some responses and then realised this was a necro.


****.

Well we posted. Is it still necro now?