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Author Topic: Lots of NIB/MINT Model M for sale  (Read 12564 times)

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Offline zwmalone

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Lots of NIB/MINT Model M for sale
« Reply #50 on: Thu, 26 February 2009, 17:07:03 »
Quote from: bhtooefr;22927
I'll note, BTW, that the way I would do this, only one custom keycap would be needed - the spacebar. The other keycaps would be standard Cherry.


Actually I think if you used japanese spacebars (One on each side) we could get around that problem too :)
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Offline zwmalone

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Lots of NIB/MINT Model M for sale
« Reply #51 on: Thu, 26 February 2009, 17:21:57 »
Quote from: zwmalone;22930
Actually I think if you used japanese spacebars (One on each side) we could get around that problem too :)

I don't know how much it would cost just to by Japan Layout spacebars but it's certainly going to be cheaper than having custom spacebars fabbed considering the high price with custom molding and most likely (being small plastic parts) it would have a high number that'd have to be purchased in advance before anyone would even consider it...
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Offline bhtooefr

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« Reply #52 on: Thu, 26 February 2009, 17:49:41 »
The other thing is, I'm not sure Japanese spacebars are gonna be short enough.

Anyway, let's go ahead and set the angles...

Split angle: 12 degrees
Transverse slope angle: 8 degrees
Feet will provide an angle, likely in the ~5-15 degree range, for longitudinal slope

The first two angles shamelessly stolen from page 2 of this patent: http://www.google.com/patents?id=vIupAAAAEBAJ

It's in their prior art, and I can't find a patent covering that, so...
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Offline zwmalone

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Lots of NIB/MINT Model M for sale
« Reply #53 on: Thu, 26 February 2009, 18:13:22 »
Quote from: bhtooefr;22933
The other thing is, I'm not sure Japanese spacebars are gonna be short enough.


http://www.diatec.co.jp/image_prod/FKB108MJB_01.jpg

http://zwmalone.dabananabunch.com/downloads/KBD/KBD%20003.jpg

Just by eyeing it the spacebar seems to be about the length of one of the spacebars on my ergo board...
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Offline bhtooefr

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« Reply #54 on: Thu, 26 February 2009, 18:30:08 »
But remember that in 2009, we need Windows keys there, too. :)

The other option, of course, is to just put a regular spacebar in, and learn to deal with it being incongruous with the rest of the board.
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Offline zwmalone

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« Reply #55 on: Thu, 26 February 2009, 18:48:42 »
Instead of using extra width control, alt and windows keys do like the SMK-85 and use letter sized keys for the ctrl, alt and win keys and you can easily fit the windows, control, alt and spacebar keys without having to learn a new layout...
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Offline bhtooefr

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« Reply #56 on: Thu, 26 February 2009, 19:06:28 »
Well, the other thing is, I don't know that letter-sized caps for those keys exist. ;) (Actually, the Windows keys on my M10 are slightly narrower than the letter keys, though.)

I could pull a Realforce, and only put one Windows key on, but that'd annoy the "I need 11tybn keys for Autohotkey" crowd. ;)

And, here's what the layout would look like with both Windows keys: (this is a chop of a G80-3000 - the image was slightly skewed, so that's why the angles don't look perfect)

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Offline zwmalone

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« Reply #57 on: Thu, 26 February 2009, 19:11:12 »
That doesn't look too hard to get used too.  It looks like it follows the apple adjustable's space bar design...
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Offline bhtooefr

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« Reply #58 on: Thu, 26 February 2009, 19:13:04 »
If I'm going to be designing an ergo board, I probably need to get my hands on an MS ergo board to compare, but I *THINK* that will actually work fairly nicely, because that's about where the thumbs would normally be. Might even be better for those with large hands, than something like how the KB7001 does it.

The biggest problem with that design is it necessitates either a hand-wired keyswitch (bad) or a PCB for one keyswitch (not as bad, but still bad.) On the flip side, it doesn't need two switches.

There might also be some tweaking - the MS board has more width between the halves, and in fact, for that route, a LONGER spacebar may be more desirable.

Also, I just know there'll be the "ZOMG WE NEED A TENLESS" or "ZOMG WE NEED AN ARROWLESS" crowd chiming in. ;)
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Offline skriefal

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« Reply #59 on: Thu, 26 February 2009, 19:39:36 »
I can help you out with the Microsoft ergo board.  I have them all... original, Elite, Pro, Multimedia, and 4000.  The only one still plugged into a functioning computer is the Elite. :)
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Offline bhtooefr

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« Reply #60 on: Thu, 26 February 2009, 19:46:20 »
Hmm... I'm taking a huge risk here investing in such a project, I'd basically have to luck out and find someone willing to dump a lot of money into it (enough to buy 10,000 boards from Costar or another ODM, basically.) (I'm damn near on subsistence-level spending right now...)

How much would you want for the original? The other thing is, I'd only need it to take measurements, and compare to this frankenboard, if I can get my hands on a chopping-quality G80-3000 (fully-functional, ANSI layout, but beat up and ugly, is what I'm going for) - then I could send it back. Then, maybe, I could have people beta test the frankenboard, and then go to Costar or the like with the design, and try to convince them to make an initial run for me on credit or something... god, this is risky.
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Offline zwmalone

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« Reply #61 on: Thu, 26 February 2009, 20:01:55 »
If you don't mind prototyping with an ALPS board you could get one of these for only $8.99...
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Offline wheel83

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« Reply #62 on: Thu, 26 February 2009, 20:08:09 »
i love my kb 7001s. the layout is nice. i absolutely need an ergo keyboard to type without pain. is there any switches i can change the white alps to ?  im a noob at this.
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Offline zwmalone

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« Reply #63 on: Thu, 26 February 2009, 20:09:53 »
Quote from: wheels83;22951
i love my kb 7001. the layout is nice. is there any switches i can change the white alps to ?  im a noob at this.

Yellow/Green Linear ALPS, Black tactile/nonclicky ALPS, cream ALPS (like in the APPLE Keyboard II), and if you're willing to solder, strongman switches...
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Offline bhtooefr

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Lots of NIB/MINT Model M for sale
« Reply #64 on: Thu, 26 February 2009, 20:11:14 »
Hmm. Does look like it has the same key geometry as a Cherry... but, that's not $8.99, that's $21.98.

Or almost 158 meals ($1.67 for a box of 12 packs of ramen...)

Yeah, I'm thinking like that. Unemployment runs out the end of March, and I have no real prospects for finding a job in this economy...

zwmalone: There's also the blue clicky+tactile Alps, which are higher quality...
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Offline zwmalone

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Lots of NIB/MINT Model M for sale
« Reply #65 on: Thu, 26 February 2009, 20:12:43 »
Quote from: zwmalone;22952
Yellow/Green Linear ALPS, Black tactile/nonclicky ALPS, cream ALPS (like in the APPLE Keyboard II), and if you're willing to solder, strongman switches...


Since that board has complicated ALPS you can only use complicated ALPS without soldering.  For blacks that limits you to the AT-101W and other keyboards with bigfoot Blacks, creams limits you to SGI AT101 and Apple Keyboard II, and yellow&Green Zenith KBs.
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Offline zwmalone

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« Reply #66 on: Thu, 26 February 2009, 20:16:07 »
Quote from: bhtooefr;22953
Hmm. Does look like it has the same key geometry as a Cherry... but, that's not $8.99, that's $21.98.

Or almost 158 meals ($1.67 for a box of 12 packs of ramen...)

Yeah, I'm thinking like that. Unemployment runs out the end of March, and I have no real prospects for finding a job in this economy...

zwmalone: There's also the blue clicky+tactile Alps, which are higher quality...
I forgot about those.  The only boards I know that have those are super expensive Leading Edge boards...

Sorry things are so tough bht :(  I seriously hope you find a decent job before your unemployment runs out...
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Offline skriefal

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« Reply #67 on: Thu, 26 February 2009, 20:43:07 »
Quote from: bhtooefr;22948
How much would you want for the original? The other thing is, I'd only need it to take measurements, and compare to this frankenboard, if I can get my hands on a chopping-quality G80-3000 (fully-functional, ANSI layout, but beat up and ugly, is what I'm going for) - then I could send it back.


If you're actually serious about doing this, I can loan you the original Natural keyboard for as long as you need it.
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Offline bhtooefr

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« Reply #68 on: Thu, 26 February 2009, 20:43:20 »
There's also some Focus boards that have them - a friend of mine has one. He actually wasn't familiar with what Cherry switches looked like, and thought they were Cherry blues, until I showed him pics of Cherries.

Of course, he says that the Cherry blues remind him of the Alps blues...
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Offline bhtooefr

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Lots of NIB/MINT Model M for sale
« Reply #69 on: Thu, 26 February 2009, 20:44:51 »
Quote from: skriefal;22959
If you're actually serious about doing this, I can loan you the original Natural keyboard for as long as you need it.


Well, I wouldn't want to do that until I've at least got a board to chop. I can do the chopping and such without actually having a keyboard to model it on, as I know where I want the board to be split, no matter what layout I ultimately use -the MS board won't be needed until it comes to the stage of putting those pieces of keyboard together.

But, I'll keep your offer in mind. :) Thanks.
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Offline lowpoly

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« Reply #70 on: Fri, 27 February 2009, 03:45:45 »
Somehow I missed this thread turning into a project thread. :)

Quote from: zwmalone;22949
If you don't mind prototyping with an ALPS board you could get one of these for only $8.99...

The Alps has the controller on the switch pcb. This will complicate things. I'd rather get a Cherry where the controller is separate.

Quote from: bhtooefr;22961
Well, I wouldn't want to do that until I've at least got a board to chop. I can do the chopping and such without actually having a keyboard to model it on, as I know where I want the board to be split, no matter what layout I ultimately use -the MS board won't be needed until it comes to the stage of putting those pieces of keyboard together.


Be sure to saw/dremel the pcb outside. Pcbs contain formaldehyde. The dust is not nice.

If you want to buy 10000 pieces from an OEM you're looking at a serious investment beyond credit.

I have a Fujitsu-Siemens KBPC E ergo board you could have for free. But shipping would be high and it is ISO. Wouldn't matter if you replace the internals. It would be adjustable including roof angle. It's the same as the Kinesis Maxim (but ISO):

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Offline bhtooefr

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Lots of NIB/MINT Model M for sale
« Reply #71 on: Fri, 27 February 2009, 07:46:05 »
Well, I'm really looking to do a layout like the MS layout, so starting with a conventional 104-key board will be best, I think, but thanks.
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