Author Topic: Buying Topre  (Read 9012 times)

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Offline quickcrx702

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Re: Buying Topre
« Reply #50 on: Fri, 14 February 2014, 05:48:37 »

In regards to sales, I've seen that people will purchase inferior products at HIGHER prices in both my own company and from working at others, because they are already convinced that what they are buying is better without even trying the competition.  For example, take phone systems.  People purchase inferior key systems at higher prices that do less and cost more than voip, because that is what their business owner friends are using.  I will make an effort to explain why they should go with the lower priced and higher quality solution, but sometimes they still want the inferior product.  They both essentially do the same thing, produce dial tone, but lack of knowledge or want of acquiring that knowledge prevents them from making the better choice.  Because they hear about choppy calls from their friends who also own businesses, they prefer the higher priced model that does less but is more "reliable."  What they fail to understand is QOS or a second link(which you would pay for with a legacy system anyways) can avoid choppy calls.  From a sales perspective, it doesn't make sense to argue with the customer if the legacy system has a higher profit margin anyway.
Purely your opinion on the quality of the device.  There are a lot of reasons why you wouldn't go VoIP call wise.  Maybe not local infrastructure wise but calling out wise definitely.  There is also a cost of managing, installing, etc, the device...familiarity plays a huge role in this. 

A specific to your example would be Cisco vs. other.  There is a common saying "You don't get fired for buying Cisco" or you can replace that with "You don't get fired for using IBM", etc, etc.  People will pay more for perceived reliability, branding, support, etc. 

A bit off topic but if you're comparing legacy PSTN to VoIP..some people do like PSTN better..even though they don't realize some systems are transporting it over IP...part of it is because there isn't any quality loss.  So g.711 vs. g.729a.  You're basically comparing Toll Quality Voice vs. Business Quality Voice. 

Right now the perception is that the 45g is the better product, and that 55g is "too heavy" for most people.  This is because more people already own a 45g, not that there are tons of people who hate their 55g and told everyone else how much it sucks.  People assume that because the 45g or variable feels good to them, adding an extra 10g could potentially ruin the great feeling.  Therefore, having tried neither, a person would be much more likely to purchase the 45g, and be happy about it.  The 45g owner will tell everyone else how great the 45g is without having tried the 55g, and more people will buy a 45g.  It doesn't make sense for a company to push the 55g even if it is superior, because the 45g pretty much sells itself.  It makes more sense to produce what people are more likely to buy, regardless of quality.

This is complete nonsense.  First thing is, the company doesn't need to push either...55g is available in lower quantities because it isn't as popular thus it might've attracted a premium.  You're making huge assumptions of what people think and why they've made the decision to justify why you think people aren't buying 55g.  I think 55g fans need to remember, because 45g is more popular it doesn't mean 55g sucks and it doesn't mean people are saying it sucks.  You are right though, they produce, in more quantity, what people are more likely to buy.  Quality has nothing to do with it.  It is what more people want.  The fact is though, if people truly felt 55g was better, across the board, we'd be seeing more people buy it..we'd see more demand for the product.  We'd see others make it..we see none of that..

Keep in mind we're comparing two products from the same company.  So no brand bias or quality of build bias, reliability bias.  We're talking about basically the same product but with slightly different weights to the switch. 

Add one more thing...you don't think these companies have actually tested these devices?  End user testing, etc?  55g was obviously made because some people want a heavier switch...but if they truly thought it was ideal wouldn't all of their testing show that? 

Do you guys have a bachelor in Economics from legit institution? If not STFU

I do.

I don't mean to take this too off topic, but there is absolutely no good reason for anyone to purchase and install a new legacy phone system.  You can use regular POTS lines, PRI, etc. with an IP PBX if you can't get a decent WAN link or an engineer who knows qos.  Additionally, wideband audio codecs are much better quality than standard g.711 or its compressed cousin g.729 which has the same quality just with much lower bandwidth, so voip can actually sound better than standard phone lines instead of worse.  As far as your reasoning about adds, moves, and changes, have you ever managed a legacy phone system?  Having done Toshiba, Rolm, Panasonic, Samsung, and a few other random systems I can't think of right now, none of them come close to Cisco, Shoretel, Tekelek, 3cx, Asterisk, Freeswitch, or any other system I've touched as far as ease of management.

As far as my post being complete nonsense, read what I wrote again, then read what you wrote in this thread.  You mostly agreed with what I said about Topre.  Quality has nothing to do with sales of the 55g, and the popularity of the 45g doesn't mean the 55g is inferior.  It just means that keyboard manufacturers are playing it safe by making new keyboards in 45g vs 55g, because that is what more people have tried.  It says nothing about the quality of the switch.





Polymer, thanks for cutting through all the misinformed BS to get to the point.
Thanks for another useful post.  Seriously, get off of deez nuts.  Don't you need to go curl 500lbs with your pinky fingers?

Offline Polymer

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Re: Buying Topre
« Reply #51 on: Fri, 14 February 2014, 06:40:26 »
I don't mean to take this too off topic, but there is absolutely no good reason for anyone to purchase and install a new legacy phone system.  You can use regular POTS lines, PRI, etc. with an IP PBX if you can't get a decent WAN link or an engineer who knows qos.  Additionally, wideband audio codecs are much better quality than standard g.711 or its compressed cousin g.729 which has the same quality just with much lower bandwidth, so voip can actually sound better than standard phone lines instead of worse.  As far as your reasoning about adds, moves, and changes, have you ever managed a legacy phone system?  Having done Toshiba, Rolm, Panasonic, Samsung, and a few other random systems I can't think of right now, none of them come close to Cisco, Shoretel, Tekelek, 3cx, Asterisk, Freeswitch, or any other system I've touched as far as ease of management.

There are legit reasons why someone would buy a legacy pbx. 

Familiarity and support within the organization you have are two really big ones.  I agree completely that you should be getting an IP PBX nowadays..your people should be trained in that or you should be using a vendor that can support the newer types of PBX...but if you think this decision is purely based on features, you're wrong.  If someone is getting one for their smallish business and they don't know anything but their friend has some other one and they can lean on them for advice...that is huge.  If their PBX guy knows XYZ PBX and that has been running for them great, that is huge.   That isn't the decision *I* would make..that isn't the decision any large organization would make...that isn't even really the best decision given all of the facts and information in front of you.  But given what some people know, what some people are comfortable with, sometimes a legacy device IS the right decision.  Again, I agree, IP PBXs are so much easier to use, so much quicker to do things, just better overall...Do you now understand what I mean by support?  Not as far as how much it takes for any given qualified person to do a change but support as in what this company or organization has as support.

There are new wide band audio codecs...And they are quite good...I'm seeing this more in the audio conferencing space though...

g.729a is not the same quality as g.711...that's been proven over and over again.  Again, it is like toll quality voice vs. business quality voice....and in general, voip will not be as good as standard phone lines even though most are now going over IP anyways....Of course, you can always have poor quality pstn lines but is the quality as good?  I don't think it is..most people don't think it is...

BTW, I'm not commenting on what I'd use with VOIP...g.729a all the way...best quality/size out there IMO...

Offline Grendel

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Re: Buying Topre
« Reply #52 on: Fri, 14 February 2014, 12:14:40 »
Currently using: RK-9000WH/GR, CMS QFXT w/ Ghost Squid
- I'm game !

Offline exitfire401

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Re: Buying Topre
« Reply #53 on: Sat, 15 February 2014, 15:15:39 »
Personally, I found the switch from MX black to 55g Topre to be very pleasant. I like a little heavier of a switch, and the 55g was a nice transition. It's not too heavy, and has a nice tactile feel to it. The best way I can describe the feel is like a heavier MX blue, but a lighter MX green. Since I made the switch, I've only mainly been using MX boards at work, and my Realforce at home. Also, it didn't take me more than an hour to get used to the transition. As I said, these are just my experiences, and everyone's different. Feel free to disagree.
Boards: Kingsaver Complicated Blue Alps |Sprit 60% Transparent MX Clears in Gateron housings with 62g gold Sprit springs lubed and RGB color shifting LEDs | Ducky Shine Zone MX Black with Blue LEDs | Realforce 10AE Variable Silenced

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Offline aref

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Re: Buying Topre
« Reply #54 on: Sat, 15 February 2014, 17:15:55 »
Personally, I found the switch from MX black to 55g Topre to be very pleasant. I like a little heavier of a switch, and the 55g was a nice transition. It's not too heavy, and has a nice tactile feel to it. The best way I can describe the feel is like a heavier MX blue, but a lighter MX green. Since I made the switch, I've only mainly been using MX boards at work, and my Realforce at home. Also, it didn't take me more than an hour to get used to the transition. As I said, these are just my experiences, and everyone's different. Feel free to disagree.

I, too, made the transition form a Filco w/ MX Black switches to a Realforce 55-gram KB. I prefer Topre 55-gram to the MX Black and everything else I have listed or I've used.
« Last Edit: Tue, 18 February 2014, 17:11:16 by SSKGuy »

Offline Emospence

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Re: Buying Topre
« Reply #55 on: Mon, 17 February 2014, 19:41:30 »
Me like keyboard.
Me have money.
Me buy keyboard.

Also, lol @ Filco 104U/87U  :))
Keyboards: Topre Realforce 87UW 55g x 2
Mice: Zowie EC1 eVo CL x 2
Mousepads: Artisan Hien VE x 2, Razer Mantis Speed

Offline tbc

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Re: Buying Topre
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 17 February 2014, 23:57:45 »
Also, lol @ Filco 104U/87U  :))

i laughed.
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Offline lonedruid

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Re: Buying Topre
« Reply #57 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 11:24:54 »
I had tried blue , red, and hhkb topre.

Since you like black, i assume you like the full bottoming out thing, which is similar in a sense that topre keys has this smooth travel till bottoming out. I am not sure about Realforce Topres. My hhkb has this famous thock sound that HHKB elitists likens to music. If you dont like any sound (i mean red and black still have "bottoming out sound " but they are not very significant like blues )i think realforce is the way to go.

For example, when you watch dota stream, if a person uses blues, you can straight away identify that gamer uses blues. If not, it is hard to know black , red, brown , or otherwise. May be even a good Logitech Rubberdomes. Who knows.

Summary: yea i think you will like your Topre. Go for it. :D
Steelseries 6gv2 red switch
Ducky shine 3 TKL blue switch http://i.imgur.com/5LcUxh.jpg
HHKB Professional 2 no-blank http://i.imgur.com/JSIa1.pngk

Offline aref

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Re: Buying Topre
« Reply #58 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 17:13:37 »
Me like keyboard.
Me have money.
Me buy keyboard.

Also, lol @ Filco 104U/87U  :))

Nothing compares with a 55-gram Topre keyswitch (should be a compound word).

Offline Emospence

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Re: Buying Topre
« Reply #59 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 19:09:13 »
Nothing compares with a 55-gram Topre keyswitch (should be a compound word).

No, they don't!

:)
Keyboards: Topre Realforce 87UW 55g x 2
Mice: Zowie EC1 eVo CL x 2
Mousepads: Artisan Hien VE x 2, Razer Mantis Speed

Offline aref

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Re: Buying Topre
« Reply #60 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 23:00:45 »
Nothing compares with a 55-gram Topre keyswitch (should be a compound word).

No, they don't!

:)

A kindred 55-gram Topre spirit. I enjoy reading your comments in support of this pinnacle of keyboards/switches.
I've tried so many key switches, and even the venerated buckling-spring cannot compare with a 55-gram Topre;
my lone SSK and Unicomp are getting no computer time; my 87Us are my go-to/full-time keyboards. 

I'd say we share the same penchant for the switch and Realforce. 

Offline Topre

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Re: Buying Topre
« Reply #61 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 23:05:40 »
Topre is not for sale.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Buying Topre
« Reply #62 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 23:09:11 »

Offline aref

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Re: Buying Topre
« Reply #63 on: Wed, 19 February 2014, 10:29:03 »
Topre is not for sale.


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