Unicomp financial issues

[patrickgeekhack]

Just ordered a SpaceSaver today. I like my customizer at home so much, I'm starting to realize the used M I got at the office just isn't quite as good. I dunno. Deep down, I just wanted an excuse to buy something. I'll throw the M in the closet. I'll make note of how long it takes for my order to get processed and sent and what the manufacture date is.

My Customizer was ordered late on a Wednesday night, and was at my door by noon on Friday. And it had to go through customs.

By the way,  I like the UNICOMP logo. However, I feel it looks better on a white keyboard than on a black one. Too bad my Customizer is black and grey.

[wheel83]

I just got off the phone with one of the reps (not Jim).  Anyway he said there have been a HUGE demand in products (due to the npr and other articles out there).

He stated that over the last 5 weeks, there have been as many orders as he would normally expect in 8 months of business.

SO, it seems as though they don't have financial issues anymore for the time being at least.

Let's hope they are smart and start catering to the real deal IBM enthusiasts.

[bigpook]

I just got off the phone with one of the reps (not Jim).  Anyway he said there have been a HUGE demand in products (due to the npr and other articles out there).

He stated that over the last 5 weeks, there have been as many orders as he would normally expect in 8 months of business.

SO, it seems as though they don't have financial issues anymore for the time being at least.

Let's hope they are smart and start catering to the real deal IBM enthusiasts.

wow, thats awesome.

[itlnstln]

I fear that it might be short lived.  Once these people buy their 'boards, Unicomp will probably go back to their normal movement.  Let's hope, for Unicomp's sake, that word-of-mouth takes over from there, and their sales continue to grow.

[bigpook]

I fear that it might be short lived.  Once these people buy their 'boards, Unicomp will probably go back to their normal movement.  Let's hope, for Unicomp's sake, that word-of-mouth takes over from there, and their sales continue to grow.

Well, true that may be. But at least they get a blip of increased business.
Every little bit helps.

[lal]

Bad news, everyone!

[ozar]

I'd be all over a Mighty Mouse (without stick) if they'd build one with buckling springs or some other type of good mechanical switches.  I've been tempted to buy anyway, but that's a lot of money for a rubber dome board.

Link:  http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/mightymouse1.html

[bigpook]

I'd be all over a Mighty Mouse (without stick) if they'd build one with buckling springs or some other type of good mechanical switches.  I've been tempted to buy anyway, but that's a lot of money for a rubber dome board.

Link:  http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/mightymouse1.html

Same here, but I don't think that is happening anytime soon. I could deal with the mightymouse layout as is not so sure about the rubber domes though. Does anyone here have one of those and if so what do you think of it. Unicomp is pretty proud of it as they want $99 for it.

[iMav]

Same here, but I don't think that is happening anytime soon. I could deal with the mightymouse layout as is not so sure about the rubber domes though. Does anyone here have one of those and if so what do you think of it. Unicomp is pretty proud of it as they want $99 for it.

I have several M4 and M4-1's.  They use, what I like to call, "buckling rubber sleeves".  they are actually quite nice to type on.  All the ones I own were purchased, NIB, from eBay for significantly less than Unicomp charges for a new M4 (ala trackpointless Mighty Mouse).

[bigpook]

Thanks iMav. I remember now that there was a thread on this. Man, my memory is going.

[patrickgeekhack]

I believe the grey keys used on the black boards are mostly one-piece, except for a few keys like Ctrl.

Anyway, a few months ago, a friend of mine ordered a custom black blank Customizer 104 USB, and it took around a month to get, with poor feedback from Unicomp.

I will note that that does run counter to my two experiences with Unicomp, though - my EnduraPro 104 USB got here very quickly (made and shipped the day after I ordered it, IIRC,) and was repaired quickly when it needed repairs.

What went wrong with your EnduraPro for it to need repairs? Sending mine for repairs can be a little bit complicated as I'll have to do a cross border shipment. Shipping back and forth would be like buying a new one.

[itlnstln]

I agree and that's why I think going for the "real" IBM fans is not the right way, as this is what got them into trouble in the first place.

Look at the HHKB and Das Keyboard. They target young people, looking for quality. The HHKB is something a 20-something Japanese guy can have in his home, and not look like a fool to friends, but as someone who knows style. Likewise, Das Keyboard is something a European young guy can take to a Lan party and look cool and sophisticated in his keyboard choice. Just two examples.

Exactly.  They need to bring the old-school ruggedness in, and package it with modern tastes.  These youngsters, and people in general, want form along with (and in some cases, way over) function.  You can't keep the function crowd forever, especially when you build "unbreakable" products.  You can, however, target consumers with modern styling, and subsequently, introduce them to superior function.

[bhtooefr]

patrickgeekhack: The mouse buttons had somehow gotten misaligned, and they didn't want me to open it up to realign them. I could've probably figured it out myself, but they weren't gonna help me fix it over the phone, so... I just went ahead and sent it in.

[bigpook]

I wonder what a "modern" model M would look like?

[itlnstln]

I wonder what a "modern" model M would look like?

Unfortunately, it would probably still have to be somewhat bulky.  I might start with an M2/A01 (Japanese model) and go from there.

[bigpook]

Something like this?

http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_bucklingspring_e.htm

[patrickgeekhack]

patrickgeekhack: The mouse buttons had somehow gotten misaligned, and they didn't want me to open it up to realign them. I could've probably figured it out myself, but they weren't gonna help me fix it over the phone, so... I just went ahead and sent it in.

Thanks. I guess, I don't have to worry about this part since I have the Customizer and not the Endura Pro.

[patrickgeekhack]

Exactly.  They need to bring the old-school ruggedness in, and package it with modern tastes.  These youngsters, and people in general, want form along with (and in some cases, way over) function.  You can't keep the function crowd forever, especially when you build "unbreakable" products.  You can, however, target consumers with modern styling, and subsequently, introduce them to superior function.

You've got a good point here. The first thing that I wife said when I opened the box for my Customizer was, "Wow! How old is that thing?" She had a hard time believing that it was a "modern" keyboard equiped with a USB connector.

[nerp]

Wow, I'm glad to hear that they're swamped with orders. I'll take a delay because of that!

In terms of how to modernize their products to appeal to a larger audience, I think we've talked circles around this subject; they can't design compelling new products because they have limited capacity to do so and the cost of upgrading/changing their manufacturing equipment is so hellaciously high, they can't afford the risk of pumping out a new product that won't sell like gangbusters.

They're in a catch-22. All we can hope for is that demand for the classic keyboards continues to grow and grow so they're rolling in dough and then can begin to innovate some.

I think revamping the store would be good. Make a little slicker and more professional looking, get some good flattering pictures of all their boards up there, stick some well-writen customer testimonials. .. their site should be a mecca for the joys of buckling springs. They should tell their compelling story, a small USA-based company trying to keep a high quality product alive. Factoids, interesting history, screenshots of famous movies with buckling spring keyboards in the background. . . Pictures of Customizers in swimwear on the beach. . .A serial novel about a man who runs off with his SpaceSaver for many hot nights in a las vegas hotel . . . Employee profiles (My name is Mary Beth and every Customizer we sell helps to pay for my child's lukemia treatments), Jim Owen's "office follies" -- memories of his crazy days back at IBM.

There's a lot of interest in the buckling spring culture. They could do a lot to make their site more magentic, like flypaper, for fans of the boards. It will only compel other people to enter the fray.

I do have to say that word of mouth is important. My recent obsession with buckling spring boards has convinced a few people I know to buy some for themselves. I'm about ready to order another customizer for my girlfriend. She was over the other day and commented on how awesome it felt to write on my keyboard. That's really all it takes.

[Hak Foo]

Wow, I'm glad to hear that they're swamped with orders. I'll take a delay because of that!

In terms of how to modernize their products to appeal to a larger audience, I think we've talked circles around this subject; they can't design compelling new products because they have limited capacity to do so and the cost of upgrading/changing their manufacturing equipment is so hellaciously high, they can't afford the risk of pumping out a new product that won't sell like gangbusters.

Unicomp's products do not appear to be bad, and compared to other "premium" keyboards, they're reasonably priced.  Their primary drawbacks are nonexistent marketing (indeed-- what is their marketing message, aside from relying on people knowing they inherited the legacy of IBM?) and products that are, frankly, dated looking.

But how much really needs to be re-tooled?  The basic proportions and layouts of a good standard keyboard don't really change.  If you took the guts out of a Customizer, slapped it in a Das Keyboard III-style glossy case, and threw some brighter LEDs and black keys on it (or if black is no-go, perhaps black lettering on a charcoal-grey key for the stealth look-- and then, and this is the important part-- got a few into the hardware press-- they'd sell a boatload of 'em at $90 each.

Hell, take the 122-key layout they sell for terminals, put it on USB, define some of the extra keys for media controls, and ship an app to define the others for macros, call it "Gamer Extreme Samurai-King Keyboard of Dark Evil Powers" or whatever, and charge $120.

None of this requires new technology, or even reworking anything with critical tolerances-- just possibly firmware changes and some new mould-work.

[itlnstln]

Something like this?

http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_bucklingspring_e.htm

Exactly.  I think I would start with that as my base 'board and redesign from there.

[itlnstln]

It doesn't have to be that way. The most commercially successful high-end keyboard of recent times, the HHKB series, sold over 300,000, and has no bright leds, neither is it glossy.

So it can be even less costly. Hell, all they need to do AFAIC is have that space saver in the colors of the four HHKB pro versions (white, black, label or no label) and do the logo in very subtle colors. On the other hand it's their business, and they are smart people, and it would be ignorant for an outsider to think they haven't tried or considered all options.

There is a difference between simple, smart styling and just plain old looking as webwit points out.  While a certain part of me likes throw-back/vintage hardware, I do like things to look pretty now and then.

[bigpook]

I would agree that the model m "looks" old. But I am ok with that. Having said that, I would love to have a Filco Tenless with BS keys. That would be nirvana for me.

But I don't expect that to ever happen. So while looking pretty would be nice my reality is that when I am typing I am looking at the screen. Not the keyboard. And what matters the most then is the feel of the keys and the quality of the display.

[bhtooefr]

But we're not talking about what a switchaholic wants.

We're talking about making BS keyboards mass-market friendly.

[bigpook]

But we're not talking about what a switchaholic wants.

We're talking about making BS keyboards mass-market friendly.

Sorry, got off track. A more modern look would go quite aways to making it more appealing to the general public.  More LED's and Internet buttons could have a positive effect to.

[Hak Foo]

Sorry, got off track. A more modern look would go quite aways to making it more appealing to the general public.  More LED's and Internet buttons could have a positive effect to.

I'm not sure about internet buttons, but definitely media buttons-- it's nice to be able to adjust the volume, or generally operate the media player running in the background, without having to give up the main application focus.

I've been using the remote from my TV tuner card for this (it works surprisingly well), but one less device is always good, especially if it means not having to replace remote batteries, or try to find a spot for the electric eye.

I think the Internet Button gimmick was long ago ruined by OEMs who assigned the buttons to the sites offering them the largest kickback, despite their lack of utility for the customer, and because it requires more programming than the typical user will do to set up.

[MANISH7]

To say that the Model M looks old is like saying the sun looks old. The Model M is a timeless design. First of all, the key layout should stay exactly as it is because that is the standard. It's convenient for touch typists to use one layout that they are familiar with. This is a matter of functionality. I remember a review of the Topre 101 criticizing it for sticking to the IBM layout. They may as well criticize the new Porsche 911 for having the steering wheel in an "old" boring location - the driver's seat.

What we've learned in this thread kind of proves what Unicomp really needs - NOISE! It's the noise that has boosted sales at an amazing rate. Stuff like Das Keyboard or Steelseries 7G have lots of noise. Noise does not always mean substance. The problem with Unicomp is that they are all substance and very little noise. You need both. It is because of this factor alone that the Steelseries 7G has sold more to individual consumers than Unicomp. This is so despite the fact that the Unicomp has a far superior product and a product even more famous than Steelseris. Yes Steelseries is well known in the gaming circle but pretty much an entire generation used the Model Ms at one point.

Focus on noise for a year or two and then focus on innovative improvements on their existing line ups. Yes we need to be reasonable. Just a guess - how about Buckling Springs with lighter springs? The M-15 had 60 g, would 45 g be possible? That'd be interesting and very easy to implement (provided the design makes sense - will the M lose too much tactility or function?). An easy way to get started would be to revive the M-15 or the Model M mini and promote them as ergo products - which they are. Ergonomics is the future as computers become exponentially more ubiquitious and personal.

The HHKB looks to me like it is from Fisher Price. The Das keyboard looks very plain and dull. All black letters does not impress me. The Logitech G15 does not even have full sized keys. Yet these products are much more successful because some it maybe quality features but they all have a lot of noise.

[MANISH7]

Model M looks old and Filco looks new???

Model M: Shiny, ivory white lustre. Classic, timeless look.



Filco: Dull, dark, depressing black. Design is hardly more innovative than the M.

Even if you dont' agree with me on that - making the satisfactory change will be minor and easy.

I do agree that Media buttons or programmable buttons (even better) could help. Yet ergonomics is what'll separate the keyboards apart. Isn't this why people spend $250+ on Topres? Surely the Topre doesn't have more tactile or auditory feedback or durability than the M? I would hope it's ergonomics - the only reason I'll even take the effort to get my hands on a Topre and consider shelling out serious dough later down the road. Just a guess.

[bhtooefr]

MANISH7: Complaining about Unicomp not really updating the Model M's styling, though, is like complaining about Porsche keeping the engine behind the rear wheels.

Which is a legitimate complaint.

[wheel83]

No way, the engine behind the rear wheels adds to 50:50 stabilization.  Porsche stylings haven't vastly changed, but they do progress with time.  And their logo has always remained the same; "awesome"

I would say Unicomps stylings compare to late 80s porsches. very weak.

i.e. grey interior on a black car haha

they need that black on black haha

and the logo is just a mess.  Making a logo can be so simple, yet they really knew how to make it look totally wack. I put black tape on mine as well, just so I wouldnt have to look at it.

[bigpook]

Model M looks old and Filco looks new???

Model M: Shiny, ivory white lustre. Classic, timeless look.

Show Image

Filco: Dull, dark, depressing black. Design is hardly more innovative than the M.

Even if you dont' agree with me on that - making the satisfactory change will be minor and easy.

I do agree that Media buttons or programmable buttons (even better) could help. Yet ergonomics is what'll separate the keyboards apart. Isn't this why people spend $250+ on Topres? Surely the Topre doesn't have more tactile or auditory feedback or durability than the M? I would hope it's ergonomics - the only reason I'll even take the effort to get my hands on a Topre and consider shelling out serious dough later down the road. Just a guess.

I like the Filco tenless design. Though it may not be for everybody.
I use a model m mini as my daily keyboard and have no issues with the look of it. I was a bit over the top in my previous post. The last thing I want to see is a model m with internet buttons, back lighting or other novel crap. But thats me. I think the model m is an excellent design but I get the impression there are others that don't quite agree.

[MANISH7]

EDIT: I was referring to having macro keys that can be programmed to do anything.

That can be programmed to do anything (volume up, down etc.). Clearly looks is a subjective, personal preference. I think that subjectivity can easily be swayed with marketing. But really these issues are minor and easy to resolve. The only reason I defended the looks is to somewhat emphasize that looks is not the biggest problem. Biggest problem is need for more marketing / advertising and later down the road focusing on ergonomics. Those two factors alone are what make or break keyboards IMO.

[bhtooefr]

Actually, the engine behind the rear wheels throws the weight TOO far rearward.

A mid-engine car has an optimal weight distribution of 42/58. (The approximate weight distribution of an average F1 car, IIRC.)

50/50 is "safe," but doesn't allow for optimal braking or the best traction for starting off, and IIRC 42/58 provides the best balance.

IIRC, the 911 nears 30/70.

[bigpook]

That can be programmed to do anything (volume up, down etc.). Clearly looks is a subjective, personal preference. I think that subjectivity can easily be swayed with marketing. But really these issues are minor and easy to resolve. The only reason I defended the looks is to somewhat emphasize that looks is not the biggest problem. Biggest problem is need for more marketing / advertising and later down the road focusing on ergonomics. Those two factors alone are what make or break keyboards IMO.

I won't argue that on the marketing/advertising.
At present does Unicomp even have a advertising/marketing strategy?  

Also, it wouldn't hurt to have a website with some punch to it either. The website they have now is really just awful.

[ed_]

The Model M spacesaver's case is as good as any.  The straight edges surrounding the curve looks very nice.  The large top edge on the full-size Ms makes it look dated, as does the indicator lights' label, but those are not present on the mini.  The gray keys are still an old look.

Some updated color schemes would make it look as modern as any other keyboard, and would be enough to attract the same audience as the Das Keyboard, if they updated their site.

[bigpook]

The Model M spacesaver's case is as good as any.  The straight edges surrounding the curve looks very nice.  The large top edge on the full-size Ms makes it look dated, as does the indicator lights' label, but those are not present on the mini.  The gray keys are still an old look.

Some updated color schemes would make it look as modern as any other keyboard, and would be enough to attract the same audience as the Das Keyboard, if they updated their site.

I would love to have a model m mini in black : )

[gwanghoops]

I believe there's no way a small company can make most of the geekhack members happy.  Everyone has their own personal preferences with keyboards -- switches, 104/84, color, key layout, texture, and shape.  Just try to get a group buy together!

Unicomp ought (stay alive in the short term) to:

- end of life most of their current products -- I can't imagine most of them driving profits
- "freshen" their decent products with this-century industrial designs to appeal to the crowd that doesn't remember the Model M from their younger days
- pay an intern to update their website and logo

of course, none of the above would really make any of us happy...unless they:

- made a tenkeyless version
- offered mechanical switch options
- USB hub
- smaller form factor

[MANISH7]

I won't argue that on the marketing/advertising.
At present does Unicomp even have a advertising/marketing strategy?  

Also, it wouldn't hurt to have a website with some punch to it either. The website they have now is really just awful.

Exactly! Taking these measures is very doable, practical, and economical. The returns will be 10 fold greater! The key question is...why is Unicomp having 8 months of business in 5 weeks? What's attributing to that? Stick with that kind of approach!

[bigpook]

Exactly! Taking these measures is very doable, practical, and economical. The returns will be 10 fold greater! The key question is...why is Unicomp having 8 months of business in 5 weeks? What's attributing to that? Stick with that kind of approach!

I think the increase in business is directly related to an NPR story that happened recently. Which is interesting in a way. I think that the people that listen to NPR would be the type to appreciate the old school model m's.  You would think that Unicomp would make note of this and expand upon it. Strangely, I don't really see this happening. : (

[MANISH7]

- pay an intern to update their website and logo

Easy for them to do.

- made a tenkeyless version

That shouldn't be much of a stretch for them given that they've offered such a product in the past and that their very own factory manufactured such products. I personally prefer the 10 key numeric pad.

- offered mechanical switch options

I don't think we'd ask them to do that. It's not practical. Unicomp cannot do everything. They can stick to their specialty - buckling springs. How about try to improve upon this technology? Give it a try with lighter springs so the keys are lighter and more ergonomic. This may add to the breakability factor

USB hub

USB interface is good enough and they've already implemented.

- smaller form factor

They'll get around to this with Spacesaver, Mighty Mouse, or Mini.

Making the small improvements to get 10 fold returns is very doable! They don't need to make a big turn from what they already have.

[MANISH7]

I think the increase in business is directly related to an NPR story that happened recently.

BINGO! This is what I meant by "noise". Look how successful it has been and easy to do.

You would think that Unicomp would make note of this and expand upon it. Strangely, I don't really see this happening. : (

Well then THAT is the problem! This is more important than "modern" design or making keyboards more breakable. The latter are indeed things to consider but this is the key issue. It's probably more cost effective too!

[wellington1869]

I think unicomp is the least business savvy company around. I cant help but blame at least some of their woes on their own utterly unimaginative approach to their business. I mean for petes sake just look at the incredible dumpiness of their website. Thats really a metaphor for how they run their entire operation.

[Hak Foo]

As a web developer, I have to agree on the website.  It mixes current products with no-longer-available products, there are limited product photos, needless dropdowns (perhaps for discontinued options) and clumsy navigation.  It honestly gives me that nervous "the site is still up solely because they paid their hosting 12 months in advance, even though the firm's long gone" feel-- resulting in severe nervousness when it comes time to insert the credit card number.

You could take a $20 canned Zen Cart theme and have them set up in probably less than 20 hours of work, and it would provide a more appealing retail environment.

If nothing else, why doesn't their site come up on unicomp.com?  While pckeyboard.com may have sounded like a good name, if people hear the brand name, their first instinct will be to go to unicomp.com, then maybe, once that doesn't work, hit Google.

[nerp]

Someone here have some free time and willing to do a demo site for them? We've got plenty of great photos of unicomp boards on this site.

[zwmalone]

Someone here have some free time and willing to do a demo site for them? We've got plenty of great photos of unicomp boards on this site.

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=21373&postcount=8

[gwanghoops]

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=21373&postcount=8

Love the new Unicomp logo!

Might as well just hack their website to "fix" it.

[zwmalone]

How about Unicomp in blue or Black and a red trackpoint where the "o" is supposed to go?

[wellington1869]

i think they should drop the unicomp name and create a new line (a new brand) of elite keyboards, and call that line something new entirely. "Unicomp" sounds like some old 70s mainframe company that went out of business.

[wheel83]

If only people with all the capital and assets would listen to those with none.  

i.e. zwmalone created that mock website and logo in probably 15 minutes and just that change alone would probably net unicomp thousands in profits, but will they listen to our small niche group?  most likely not.  regardless, i wish them the best, as they are the only company keeping the buckling spring alive.

[xsphat]

The Model M DOES look dated because it is. The bastard sword is a timeless design because it can never be anything but what it is. A computer keyboard is not that way. And Unicomp's logo is like adding a green and blonde pompadour mullet to the top of the Model M. I think Unicomp doesn't need to be saved — they need to be stopped!