The Journey begins: post 1

[DavidB]

Hello Geekhack community,

Let me preface by explaining that I am a complete noob when it comes to anything beyond a normal, functioning keyboard.  Until recently (today) I didn't realize that a 'keyboard enthusiast' existed.  It does make sense to me, as I have been playing FPS games online since the original Quake.  I still remember being very young and someone telling me I was pretty good for a keyboard turner.  Confused, I asked, and discovered the console command for mouse look...  Albeit very odd at first - since that day I've always wondered how people play FPS games on a xbox or ps controller.  Sure, you can be good at it, but imagine if you had a keyboard and mouse...

Anyway - Back to my plight.  Evidently there is a demand for clicky mechanical keyboards.  After reading some threads on this site I'm beginning to see why.  I have an enormous collection of oldschool keyboards that I have absolutely zero clue about.  I've joined this site to explore your knowledge and hopefully gain some insight into what I have.  Is it rare?  Is it junk?  Is it common?  Should I invest time into restoring it? 

My plan was to research via google about the part #s and read about them, but I was very surprised that even google didn't have results for some of the part #s.  I'm hoping that with the near 30,000 members here I can get some answers. 

OK - Post 1 - the beginning:









Question 1:

What is this?  I can't find anything on google for any of the #s that are on the back.





Thanks everyone!

[hwood34]

Words... can't... even...

[CPTBadAss]

Hm, maybe an odd layout Beam Spring board?

Really I just want to marvel at this IBM collection. I now know that the IBM land is apparently in Georgia .

Welcome to GeekHack. I'm sure all the IBMHeads will love your pictures .

[Melvang]

Hm, maybe an odd layout Beam Spring board?

Really I just want to marvel at this IBM collection. I now know that the IBM land is apparently in Georgia .

Welcome to GeekHack. I'm sure all the IBMHeads will love your pictures .

And they will probably try to throw their wallets/credit cards at you.  Very nice collection man.  Would love to see these working on modern machines.

[morpheus]

HOLY CRAP

Gimme one of those.... ;-)

[HPE1000]

Wow that is awesome, welcome to geekhack! 

[Elrick]

Wow that is awesome, welcome to geekhack! 

I think DavidB is going to be everyone's favourite friend here from now on  .  Welcome to Geekhack Central.

[HPE1000]

Wow that is awesome, welcome to geekhack! 

I think DavidB is going to be everyone's favourite friend here from now on  .  Welcome to Geekhack Central.

RIP DavidB's inbox 

[spiceBar]

HOLY CRAP

Gimme one of those.... ;-)

Yes, "Holy crap" is what comes to mind.

Seriously... No I can't... HOLY CRAP is what comes over and over again looking at your pictures! 

[Rena]

christ, those are a lot of keyboards. I'd imagine if you played your cards right and you had the right boards you could make an immense profit. or mailing some to me is always an option too (just kidding).

also, the board you pictured in the last three look like something you'd use with a commodore 64 or one of those kinds of things, but I have no idea at all.

[DavidB]

LOL.

Crazy response after 30 minutes - I'll keep snapping pics and updating you all as I go through all of them. 

I am definitely going to need help with some of this, and I'm very happy that this community exists!

[jwaz]

Oh my dear god, you have all that just sitting around? hahaha that's so sick. hook up an Model F AT!

[Pacifist]

oh god.....

somebody beat 127001's collection

[hwood34]

Yeah I'm kind of wondering, where are all of these? Is this actually at your house?

[DavidB]

They are in my warehouse.  If I had a few hundred keyboards on shelves at my house I would at least know what I had   and I probably wouldn't have a wife anymore... 

[Photekq]

Wow. That's amazing. Really.. Just wow.

If you happen to find a board in really, really terrible condition with one of these square black IBM badges.. I'll buy the badge!

[Melvang]

They are in my warehouse.  If I had a few hundred keyboards on shelves at my house I would at least know what I had   and I probably wouldn't have a wife anymore...

LOL I would have to agree with that one.  There are some guys here working on converters/or have converters done so you can get those working on modern PCs without completely hacking them up.  If I am up to date on these they can be installed inline with the cord, or in the case between the board and the cable.  I have had a rash of wrong info lately though.

[dorkvader]

Hm, maybe an odd layout Beam Spring board?

Really I just want to marvel at this IBM collection. I now know that the IBM land is apparently in Georgia .

Welcome to GeekHack. I'm sure all the IBMHeads will love your pictures .

All beam springs are odd layouts.

That is most definitely a beam spring KB for an IBM 3276 terminal (the 3275/3277 KBs are much larger on the top: here's a picture). Made in Canada in the late 1970's. Now usable on USB with Xwhatsit's controller.

I think its 3278: doublechecking now. It's the 3270 layout and size.

Edit: 3276, similar to dedalus's data entry beamspring.
http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8/ibm-3276-data-entry-keyboard-t1113.html

First image upper right. square label IBM model M 1390120. Front left appears to be an IBM 122-key model F (check for the black bottom pan) 611034* or 6110668 Those are worth money. There is one upside down on the "a10D" shelf that you can clearly see. Two more on the "a8F' shelf

I also see (on the 42H0468 shelf) a "model C" keyboard. This uses "model F" technology, but is not desireable (horrid layout, etc.) still they are nice keyboards.  Two more on the left in the picture preceding "question 1".

Lots and lots of 1390120 keyboards. These aren't as sought after as the F 122 key, but are very nice and currently in demand.

Lots of 122-key model M keyboards. These are some what common and less in demand, but still very nice.

The cheapest KBs are probably the terminal Ms. the + ont eh tenkey (numberpad) is split and they have a modular connector you can see one as the second from the left KB ont eh a10c shelf.

Lots of POS kbs: rubberdomes, not very nice to type on, no-one wants them. You have some examples on the a9b shelf.

Yellow kb above the 25f6350 tag appears to be an NMB terminal board: not too nice. The one next to it seems familliar: I will ahve to see better pictures

---

My recommendation:
sort them by generation. The normal size M's by label (square is the oldest, then beige oval then blue oval) Sort out the F122's and other model F's. Throw away the cheap POS stuff.

If you ahve any questions about a specific model, please ask here.

---
edit: you live very close to another GH'er who knows a lot about IBM model F keyboards. Perhaps invite him over and chat!

[Pacifist]

I'd love a F-122

[rowdy]

Welcome to Geekhack!

The question everyone's minds: are you likely to sell any of these?

Probably followed by: Any SSK in there?

[DavidB]

Hm, maybe an odd layout Beam Spring board?

Really I just want to marvel at this IBM collection. I now know that the IBM land is apparently in Georgia .

Welcome to GeekHack. I'm sure all the IBMHeads will love your pictures .

All beam springs are odd layouts.

That is most definitely a beam spring KB for an IBM 3278 terminal (the 3275/3277 KBs are much larger on the top: here's a picture). Made in Canada in the late 1970's. Now usable on USB with Xwhatsit's controller.

I think its 3278: doublechecking now. It's the 3270 layout and size.

First image upper right. square label IBM model M 1390120. Front left appears to be an IBM 122-key model F (check for the black bottom pan) 611034* or 6110668 Those are worth money. There is one upside down on the "a10D" shelf that you can clearly see. Two more on the "a8F' shelf

I also see (on the 42H0468 shelf) a "model C" keyboard. This uses "model F" technology, but is not desireable (horrid layout, etc.) still they are nice keyboards.  Two more on the left in the picture preceding "question 1".

Lots and lots of 1390120 keyboards. These aren't as sought after as the F 122 key, but are very nice and currently in demand.

Lots of 122-key model M keyboards. These are some what common and less in demand, but still very nice.

The cheapest KBs are probably the terminal Ms. the + ont eh tenkey (numberpad) is split and they have a modular connector you can see one as the second from the left KB ont eh a10c shelf.

Lots of POS kbs: rubberdomes, not very nice to type on, no-one wants them. You have some examples on the a9b shelf.

Yellow kb above the 25f6350 tag appears to be an NMB terminal board: not too nice. The one next to it seems familliar: I will ahve to see better pictures

---

My recommendation:
sort them by generation. The normal size M's by label (square is the oldest, then beige oval then blue oval) Sort out the F122's and other model F's. Throw away the cheap POS stuff.

If you ahve any questions about a specific model, please ask here.

---
edit: you live very close to another GH'er who knows a lot about IBM model F keyboards. Perhaps invite him over and chat!

wow thanks for the info!

[dorkvader]

I can probably identify most (or all) of those IBM boards you have as well as give some info and history, features, desirability, etc if you want.

Just ask away!


---
I have also alerted some of the IBM guys to this topic. So some of them might weigh in later.

[Melvang]

I can probably identify most (or all) of those IBM boards you have as well as give some info and history, features, desirability, etc if you want.

Just ask away!

I can vouch for this DV is a walking knowledge bomb.  If you find some really weird stuff Daniel Beardsmore is has some INSANE knowledge on some really obscure switches and such.

[DavidB]

Welcome to Geekhack!

The question everyone's minds: are you likely to sell any of these?

Probably followed by: Any SSK in there?

I have no intention of holding onto most of these.  I also have no intention of breaking any of this site's rules.

As of right now, besides going to bed, I am trying to gather info on what I have, and maybe share some pictures of stuff you've never seen before...  who knows?  maybe I will

as far as SSK - I don't know.  I'll try to go through some stuff tomorrow and update.

[dorkvader]

I, for one, am interested in a terminal emulator KB keycaps. You can see them on the KB in this link.

Most of your KBs looks to be older than that though. If you do see one, I'd be interested.

[Zeal]

Mother of god.....

May I ask how did you end up with that collection?

Still in shock atm.

[Lastpilot]

Another vouch for dorkvader. He knows his stuff. 

[intelli78]

Prepare your inbox...

[katushkin]

Can confirm I'm going to throw my wallet at you. I don't even want an SSK. Almost anything with buckling springs is fine by me.

This may finally be my chance to own one...

[semyorka]

Holeee ****.  MASSIVE collection!

The big thing I see is in photo #2, the shelf with the 6110345 keyboards: Those are 122-key Model F keyboards (referred to as "F122" around here), identifiable by the black metal backplate.  I see more in photo #3 and #4.  Those are probably the most desirable thing I see (they rarely sell for <$100 on eBay in good condition).  Be careful, the plastic can be brittle on those keyboards!

122-key Model M keyboards (with the plastic back) are unfortunately not in as high demand, but you should still be able to sell them for a reasonable price.  I see that most of the ones you have are ones with the pushbutton-released legs; they generally sell for a few $ more than the ones without the pushbutton legs.

As a rough guide, all 101-key Model Ms with the three status LEDs up in the top right are basically the same.  Older ones with the square silver badge at the upper right are the most desirable, ones with the rounded badge with black text at the upper left are next, and ones with the rounded badge with blue text are the least desirable.  That said, the condition of the keyboard often has a larger effect on price than the badge.

If a 101-key Model M does NOT have the three status LEDs, look at the model#.  1390120 keyboards will work with a modern PC without a converter, and are reasonably sought after - as they are some of the oldest Ms out there.  Other model#s are terminal keyboards and in very low demand, although you'll still manage to sell them - they're good parts donor keyboards (another giveaway: terminal Model Ms don't have a vertical "+" key at the far right, it's split into two keys).

Note that if you have any darker grey "Industrial" Model Ms, they are highly sought after. Model M Space Saver Keyboards ("SSK") are also highly sought after - they don't have the number pad to the right.

The non-IBM keyboards are probably worthless, especially if they're not "clicky".

The keyboard pictured at the end is an extremely desirable IBM beam spring keyboard, and I'm sure your inbox is already inundated by GH'ers asking to buy it.

Finally, if you have any 1387033 model keyboards (A 104-key version of the 122-key Model F without a number pad), please PM me!

[tbc]

oh dear gawd.

i'm not sure if this has veen done before, but if the OP and IBM buffs are interested, this might be a really good time to make an IBM/retro board wiki.

i'm only guessing that's not everything and that the full collection should fill up quite a large amount of the list of all models ever.

[Kouni]

It's like treasure island for geeks. Thanks for sharing the journey, I'll be watching with interest.

[CPTBadAss]

oh dear gawd.

i'm not sure if this has veen done before, but if the OP and IBM buffs are interested, this might be a really good time to make an IBM/retro board wiki.

i'm only guessing that's not everything and that the full collection should fill up quite a large amount of the list of all models ever.

I think that the Deskthority and Wikipedia entries are a great start and a good place to add information. Probably the DT wiki more so.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

Best first post thread in GH history.

[berserkfan]

LOL.

Crazy response after 30 minutes - I'll keep snapping pics and updating you all as I go through all of them. 

I am definitely going to need help with some of this, and I'm very happy that this community exists!

Looks like supply is finally going to go through the roof. And prices come down to earth! Hopefully!

[JPG]

OMG, nice collection you have there!

[semyorka]

oh dear gawd.

i'm not sure if this has veen done before, but if the OP and IBM buffs are interested, this might be a really good time to make an IBM/retro board wiki.

i'm only guessing that's not everything and that the full collection should fill up quite a large amount of the list of all models ever.

I think that the Deskthority and Wikipedia entries are a great start and a good place to add information. Probably the DT wiki more so.

tbc, I think you severely underestimate the number of different keyboard models that IBM manufactured, and overestimate the variety shown in the photos.  And I agree with CPTBadAss that any new information should be added to existing sources, rather than fragmenting the data further.

[Reckthor]

Well............*Sigh* Unzips

[DavidB]

Pulled a couple that I thought were interesting. 

First, one with odd characters on the keys:





next:  odd looking keyboard with a switch on it - anyone got info?

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

Show Image

Is that an owners manual conveniently hidden underneath that board?

I am super curious as to what we might learn from reading it...

[Pacifist]

Show Image

Is that an owners manual conveniently hidden underneath that board?

I am super curious as to what we might learn from reading it...

Do not use with Soares convertor  :))

[CPTBadAss]

next:  odd looking keyboard with a switch on it - anyone got info?

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

One of the resident IBMheads in the IRC channel, daemonraccoon, told me that this keyboard is a Model F keyboard that goes with a Model C terminal. I guess that the switch would be for choosing what protocol you want to use. For example, some keyboards can switch between an XT and AT protocol. I suspect this is the same thing. I'm not a huge fan of the layout. But the caps in the first board are called APL caps. Those look pretty cool :D.

[dorkvader]

Pulled a couple that I thought were interesting. 

First, one with odd characters on the keys:

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

next:  odd looking keyboard with a switch on it - anyone got info?

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

#1 is a model F with APL keycaps: worth serious cash to some.
#2 is a "model C" keyboard. The manual is inside it. I have a manual as well. Yours is the "model C4". I have a model C1 keyboard.

Both use model F switch technology.

Sadly I was already aware of the 1385167 model number, and they aren't generally available or I'd have one already.

Until I get a scanner, these are the best pictures of the manual you'll get:
http://imgur.com/a/Qe41v

[DavidB]

I, for one, am interested in a terminal emulator KB keycaps. You can see them on the KB in this link.

Most of your KBs looks to be older than that though. If you do see one, I'd be interested.

I do have a 1397000 according to the notes that I jotted down.  Would that have what you are looking for?

[tbc]

oh dear gawd.

i'm not sure if this has veen done before, but if the OP and IBM buffs are interested, this might be a really good time to make an IBM/retro board wiki.

i'm only guessing that's not everything and that the full collection should fill up quite a large amount of the list of all models ever.

by wiki, i'm really just referring to the quantity of information (a wiki's worth of ibm stuff vs a page of ibm stuff).

definitely would be best to merge it with current keyboard wikis.
I think that the Deskthority and Wikipedia entries are a great start and a good place to add information. Probably the DT wiki more so.

tbc, I think you severely underestimate the number of different keyboard models that IBM manufactured, and overestimate the variety shown in the photos.  And I agree with CPTBadAss that any new information should be added to existing sources, rather than fragmenting the data further.

[DavidB]

#1 is a model F with APL keycaps: worth serious cash to some.
#2 is a "model C" keyboard. The manual is inside it. I have a manual as well. Yours is the "model C4". I have a model C1 keyboard.

Both use model F switch technology.

Sadly I was already aware of the 1385167 model number, and they aren't generally available or I'd have one already.

Until I get a scanner, these are the best pictures of the manual you'll get:
http://imgur.com/a/Qe41v

Thanks for the info. 

Quick questions:  How should I go about cleaning these boards up?  Is there anything that can be easily messed up?  What should I watch out for besides brittle plastic?

[CPTBadAss]

How should I go about cleaning these boards up?  Is there anything that can be easily messed up?  What should I watch out for besides brittle plastic?

I highly suggest you watch phosphorglow's video. I think it will answer a lot of your questions.

[thesentinel]

I can already feel the money in my wallet loosening

[dorkvader]

Phosphorglow has good advice, but remember the beam spring is a completely different beast (look at my disassembly photos here). Other than cleaning the thing, you have to be VERY careful when removing the keycaps: they are somewhat brittle and replacements are not available.

[mrmillsy]

Loving reading this.  Keep the updates coming David!