« previous next »
Pages:  [1]     Go Down

Author Topic: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?  (Read 2930 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tytl

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5
What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« on: Thu, 29 May 2014, 18:10:03 »
Hi all,

I am currently looking for a new mechanical keyboard to replace my dell keyboard. I think my only requirements are that it has to have the num pad and Cherry MX brown. I don't really care about backlight and macro keys.


Are there any good keyboards that you guys can recomend? Budget is $170 (I can throw in more if it's really worth it).

Thanks!
« Last Edit: Thu, 29 May 2014, 19:53:28 by tytl »
Logged

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
  • * Erudite Elder
  • Posts: 21175
  • Location: melbourne.vic.au
  • Missed another sale.
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 29 May 2014, 18:15:55 »
Welcome to Geekhack!

Filco?

Ducky?  Ducky Shine if you want backlighting.
Logged
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Defect

  • Posts: 670
  • I collect keyboards and keyboard accessories
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 29 May 2014, 19:20:55 »
If you say "budget is no problem" people will start recommending Korean custom boards with aluminium cases.

If budget is no problem but you wanna save money, QFR boards can be found around 60 when on sale.  Good value for money.

60% boards are nice, too.  Personally prefer those.
Logged

Not pictured: KeyCool 84 [MX Red] | Focus 2001 [Complicated White Alps]
Endgame Board | Defect's Watermelon Board Build Doc

Offline strict

  • TKL Zealot
  • Posts: 1921
  • Location: PA
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 29 May 2014, 19:27:27 »
Get a Filco, I promise you will not regret it. The build quality is excellent and it's plate mounted with costar stabs so it will type like a dream. It sounds like the model you would want is FKBN104M/EB2 .
Logged

Realforce EK45 (Silenced)  |  Realforce 87UW (45g)  |  Realforce 87UWS (Variable)
Filco MJ2 TKL (Cherry Clears)  |  Phantom 87 (78g Gateron Clears)  |  Phantom 86 (67g Zealios)

Offline tytl

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 29 May 2014, 19:54:25 »
Ok, I've thrown in a budget in my fist post.

I'll take a look at Filco and Ducky.


Quote from: Defect on Thu, 29 May 2014, 19:20:55
QFR boards can be found around 60 when on sale.  Good value for money.

What's QFR boards?
Logged

Offline Defect

  • Posts: 670
  • I collect keyboards and keyboard accessories
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 29 May 2014, 19:58:19 »
Quote from: tytl on Thu, 29 May 2014, 19:54:25
Ok, I've thrown in a budget in my fist post.

I'll take a look at Filco and Ducky.


Quote from: Defect on Thu, 29 May 2014, 19:20:55
QFR boards can be found around 60 when on sale.  Good value for money.

What's QFR boards?

For 170 budget I'd recommend Filco.  If you like backlighting I'd recommend Ducky Shine III, or anything Ducky.
If you want to try a gaming-friendly layout, look for Keycool 84's and Choc Mini's.
If you want the aesthetics of a 60%, Poker II.

QFR = CoolerMaster Quickfire Rapid.  The cheap version of a Majestouch 2, but still really good quality. 
Logged

Not pictured: KeyCool 84 [MX Red] | Focus 2001 [Complicated White Alps]
Endgame Board | Defect's Watermelon Board Build Doc

Offline Firebolt1914

  • POM Overlord
  • Posts: 703
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 29 May 2014, 19:58:40 »
QFR is Cooler Master's QuickFire Rapid. Here is a link: http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/product.php?product_id=3060
Logged

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
  • * Erudite Elder
  • Posts: 21175
  • Location: melbourne.vic.au
  • Missed another sale.
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 29 May 2014, 20:02:50 »
Quote from: Firebolt1914 on Thu, 29 May 2014, 19:58:40
QFR is Cooler Master's QuickFire Rapid. Here is a link: http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/product.php?product_id=3060

OP says must have numpad :p

Filco.
Logged
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Firebolt1914

  • POM Overlord
  • Posts: 703
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 29 May 2014, 20:06:45 »
It was just that the OP was wondering what QFR was. I also got ninja'd by Defect  ^-^
Logged

Offline strict

  • TKL Zealot
  • Posts: 1921
  • Location: PA
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 29 May 2014, 20:51:03 »
Quote from: Defect on Thu, 29 May 2014, 19:58:19
For 170 budget I'd recommend Filco.  If you like backlighting I'd recommend Ducky Shine III, or anything Ducky.
If you want to try a gaming-friendly layout, look for Keycool 84's and Choc Mini's.
If you want the aesthetics of a 60%, Poker II.

QFR = CoolerMaster Quickfire Rapid.  The cheap version of a Majestouch 2, but still really good quality.

One of the biggest complaints I have against the CM boards are the cheap PCBs. If you ever plan on desoldering switches to swap them out or to install a aftermarket plate you have a much greater chance of ****ing something up on a CM single sided PCB as compared to a higher quality, double-sided PCB like a Filco would have. Also, that awful rubber coating on their boards is a dirt magnet and looks like ass when it wears off in some spots and not others.

IMO, Filco boards really are worth the extra money if you can afford it.
Logged

Realforce EK45 (Silenced)  |  Realforce 87UW (45g)  |  Realforce 87UWS (Variable)
Filco MJ2 TKL (Cherry Clears)  |  Phantom 87 (78g Gateron Clears)  |  Phantom 86 (67g Zealios)

Offline minho

  • Posts: 490
  • Location: United States
  • i'm kind of back
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 29 May 2014, 21:21:41 »
Quote from: strict on Thu, 29 May 2014, 20:51:03
Quote from: Defect on Thu, 29 May 2014, 19:58:19
For 170 budget I'd recommend Filco.  If you like backlighting I'd recommend Ducky Shine III, or anything Ducky.
If you want to try a gaming-friendly layout, look for Keycool 84's and Choc Mini's.
If you want the aesthetics of a 60%, Poker II.

QFR = CoolerMaster Quickfire Rapid.  The cheap version of a Majestouch 2, but still really good quality.

One of the biggest complaints I have against the CM boards are the cheap PCBs. If you ever plan on desoldering switches to swap them out or to install a aftermarket plate you have a much greater chance of ****ing something up on a CM single sided PCB as compared to a higher quality, double-sided PCB like a Filco would have. Also, that awful rubber coating on their boards is a dirt magnet and looks like ass when it wears off in some spots and not others.

IMO, Filco boards really are worth the extra money if you can afford it.

Many people don't ever bother doing any mods to their keyboards that would involve desoldering, so this is a non-issue for most. I can't speak against the rubber casing though.

Also OP, check out the Quickfire TK - keyboard with a numpad with the size of a TKL board. Be warned that it has nonstandard modifiers though, so if you ever want to replace all of your keycaps, you will have a little more trouble finding a set that will fit your modifiers/spacebar.
Logged

Offline pichu23

  • ୧༼ಠ益ಠ༽୨ FITE ME
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1586
  • Location: Littleroot Town, Hoenn
  • ʕ ͡·ᴥ ͡· ʔ
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 29 May 2014, 21:26:50 »
I'd say Ducky as I have good experiences with it. It has backlight but it can be switched off if you don't fancy it. But if you're certain that you would not want backlight then filco would be a good choice. Qfr is alright from what I heard. :D but I defo recommend ducky if you're going that path.
Logged
Collection(s) : Ducky Shine 2 TKL x Poker II x 62g FaceW x 62g Gateron Black GON NerD TKL x 65g Z GON NerD 60

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
  • * Erudite Elder
  • Posts: 21175
  • Location: melbourne.vic.au
  • Missed another sale.
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 29 May 2014, 21:36:07 »
Quote from: pichu23 on Thu, 29 May 2014, 21:26:50
I'd say Ducky as I have good experiences with it. It has backlight but it can be switched off if you don't fancy it. But if you're certain that you would not want backlight then filco would be a good choice. Qfr is alright from what I heard. :D but I defo recommend ducky if you're going that path.

Can always get a Ducky Zero - no backlighting :)
Logged
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Mr. D

  • Posts: 30
  • Location: NC
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 29 May 2014, 21:55:33 »
As someone who was initially looking a full size boards only, I'd suggest considering a tenkeyless board in conjunction with a separate number pad.  That way you get the best of both worlds (plus it seems like there's a greater choice of smaller boards vs. full size ones).
Logged
QFR | Model M | AT101W

Offline pichu23

  • ୧༼ಠ益ಠ༽୨ FITE ME
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1586
  • Location: Littleroot Town, Hoenn
  • ʕ ͡·ᴥ ͡· ʔ
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 30 May 2014, 23:00:38 »
Quote from: rowdy on Thu, 29 May 2014, 21:36:07
Quote from: pichu23 on Thu, 29 May 2014, 21:26:50
I'd say Ducky as I have good experiences with it. It has backlight but it can be switched off if you don't fancy it. But if you're certain that you would not want backlight then filco would be a good choice. Qfr is alright from what I heard. :D but I defo recommend ducky if you're going that path.

Can always get a Ducky Zero - no backlighting :)

Ah the zero series. Thing is unlike the shine series, the cables are not detachable. Some might like it some might not. Personally I prefer my cables to be detachable. :D
And the zero series are manufactured in China, (Shine is Taiwan). Not sure if it makes any difference quality wise. *OP - come to the ducky side, we haz cookiez.  :p
Logged
Collection(s) : Ducky Shine 2 TKL x Poker II x 62g FaceW x 62g Gateron Black GON NerD TKL x 65g Z GON NerD 60

Offline esoomenona

  • Gnillort?
  • Posts: 5323
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 30 May 2014, 23:07:17 »
Daskeyboard 4
Logged

Offline suby4me

  • Posts: 74
  • Location: vermont
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 30 May 2014, 23:29:14 »
Quote from: esoomenona on Fri, 30 May 2014, 23:07:17
Daskeyboard 4

I actually second that too ;)
Logged
current: poker 2 | HHKB pro2, Novatouch | off: das keyboard 4 | Ducky 3 TKL | death by coffee das keyboard mac ver. | razer blackwidow | whitefox | corsair K70 RGB

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
  • * Erudite Elder
  • Posts: 21175
  • Location: melbourne.vic.au
  • Missed another sale.
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 02:27:43 »
Quote from: pichu23 on Fri, 30 May 2014, 23:00:38
Quote from: rowdy on Thu, 29 May 2014, 21:36:07
Quote from: pichu23 on Thu, 29 May 2014, 21:26:50
I'd say Ducky as I have good experiences with it. It has backlight but it can be switched off if you don't fancy it. But if you're certain that you would not want backlight then filco would be a good choice. Qfr is alright from what I heard. :D but I defo recommend ducky if you're going that path.

Can always get a Ducky Zero - no backlighting :)

Ah the zero series. Thing is unlike the shine series, the cables are not detachable. Some might like it some might not. Personally I prefer my cables to be detachable. :D
And the zero series are manufactured in China, (Shine is Taiwan). Not sure if it makes any difference quality wise. *OP - come to the ducky side, we haz cookiez.  :p

Well regarded Filco has non-detachable cables :p

For some it would be a plus - no mini USB plug to work its way loose.
Logged
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline johndavis33

  • Posts: 231
  • Location: USA, Massachusetts
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 08:07:01 »
Ducky Preimer or the 9008 pros. Really any ducky with dye sub PBT. About the same price as a Filco, but the caps are leagues ahead of it.
Logged
HAVE AND WILL KEEP: HHKB - Printed white | Ducky Banana edition - Whites | Model M13 | Unidentified Goodwill keyboard - Simplified black ALPS
TOO BE SOLD: TG3 BL82 - Clears | Wheelwrite 5 - Buckling Springs typewriter
SOLD: Rosewill RK9000 - Blacks | QFR - Blues | Ducky G2 Pro - Greens |
IT WILL BE MINE: Northgate Omnikey - White ALPS

Offline tytl

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 02 June 2014, 14:07:46 »
Thank you everyone for the recommendations.

I think I'm going to get the Ducky Shine 3. I have to wait for my local retail store to get more stock, so in the meantime, I'm still open to suggestions.
Logged

Offline D01

  • Posts: 73
  • Location: USA
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 02 June 2014, 14:31:20 »
WASD is what I'd suggest for a no frills full size.  In your price range, customizable, and slightly better key caps than Filco imho.
Logged

Offline RESPRiT

  • Posts: 414
  • Location: Seattle
  • HHKB = ❤
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 03 June 2014, 08:35:07 »
Quote from: D01 on Mon, 02 June 2014, 14:31:20
WASD is what I'd suggest for a no frills full size.  In your price range, customizable, and slightly better key caps than Filco imho.

I would ONLY recommend WASD for the customization and nothing else. It gets outclassed in pretty much all other fields as far as value goes and even if customization is something OP wants, the thrill of the gimmick can wear off after the initial "oh cool it's not normal!" goes away.
Logged
;)

Offline D01

  • Posts: 73
  • Location: USA
Re: What should I get for my first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 03 June 2014, 08:56:49 »
Quote from: RESPRiT on Tue, 03 June 2014, 08:35:07
I would ONLY recommend WASD for the customization and nothing else. It gets outclassed in pretty much all other fields as far as value goes and even if customization is something OP wants, the thrill of the gimmick can wear off after the initial "oh cool it's not normal!" goes away.

Well I own both a Filco and two WASD's.  The WASD's are better.  Don't own a Ducky or a Das so can't comment.
Logged
Pages:  [1]     Go Up
« previous next »