Author Topic: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists  (Read 11766 times)

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Offline jacobolus

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #50 on: Fri, 27 June 2014, 05:42:44 »
To be more precise, about 4 or 5 hours of daily total-focus creative work is about the maximum almost anyone can sustain for more than a few weeks. Try to work any longer, and you either need to do semi-mindless busywork for the rest of the time, or you end up getting distracted, half-assing everything, and working sloppily and inefficiently, without the kind of creative insight or presence of mind you’d have when properly rested. Or you just burn out in a few weeks.
« Last Edit: Fri, 27 June 2014, 05:45:58 by jacobolus »

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #51 on: Fri, 27 June 2014, 05:47:30 »
Either that or go hard as **** sacrificing everything, and then burn out less than a decade into your chosen career :)

Offline kittykatmax

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #52 on: Fri, 27 June 2014, 11:41:29 »
Have you looked at AcidFire's upcoming keyboard?  It's what I'm personally waiting for.

Programmable, split design, tentable, angled thumb cluster, non-staggered layout, various mechanical switches to choose from....

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44940.0
Visit the Typing Test and try!

Offline SonOfSonOfSpock

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #53 on: Fri, 27 June 2014, 23:25:59 »
@SpringFox, I have the same touchpad. I find it very good, almost preferable for quick mouse movements. Anything a bit more involved mouse-wise and it is more comfortable to use a different device.

Offline hoggy

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #54 on: Sat, 28 June 2014, 01:45:59 »
Springfox, glad that you've turned that corner. Don't forget that it's not just computing that you need to consider...try to fix as much as you can - do you have a dishwasher?
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline Lammie

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #55 on: Sat, 28 June 2014, 13:21:45 »
I use an adjustable in height desk from Ikea. Making sure, my arm is at a 90 degree angle..Really nice!
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Offline lally

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 07 July 2014, 23:00:08 »
I'm glad to hear that you're already doing better!

The kinesis advantage was my workhorse for ~14 years.  It's still a great keyboard.  I await an updated version.  But, I wanted to address something you said about feeling like you're slower on it.  That's not a bad thing -- software development isn't I/O bound.  Actually the more time you spend away from the keyboard, thinking, researching, and reasoning, the faster you'll go.  But I digress.

Yes, the kinesis with a vertical mouse is pretty close to optimal for hardware (although variations in hand sizes will cause different opinions, etc).  I'd also recommend pushing that keyboard forward on your desk quite far, so that your elbows fit on the desk (or chair armwrests).  Unless you get some elbow-rest thing, but that may be more cumbersome than useful.  In that blank space you have between the edge of your desk and the keyboard, put a paper notebook there and reason out what you're doing there.

Don't worry, with some chance for your wrists to recover, and some awareness of the early warning signs of damage to your wrists, you can go back to other mechanical keyboards later (with wrist wrests, at least). 

Also, I'd like to reiterate the importance of desk height, as others have mentioned here.

Offline TotalChaos

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 07 July 2014, 23:34:06 »
I'll get right to it.

I'm only 20 and I am already getting really bad aches in my wrists, especially my right (mouse) hand and I get a terrible paid when I use the left shift key.

I've been programming and the like since I was 11 and fear I have abused my wrists already.

Now, it's no where near debilitating, but I'd like to be nipping this in the bud as soon as possible, I work from home a lot as a software developer and consultant and would like to get this sorted so I can carry on working on full tilt.

Do you have any suggestions for keyboards and mouse set ups for this kind of problem? For the last 2-3 years I've had a plethora of different mechanical keyboards, right now I'm on my Filco Majestouch 2, and I feel like I need something that is split so I don't have that point parallel wrist thing going on, I've recently switched my mouse hand over to the left so that's not so much of a problem any more.

Also, I have tried a kinesis advantage, but stupidly I don't think I gave it enough time, my patients ran out after about a week of use as it was really slowing me down in my job, but I would be willing to give it another go if nothing else comes up.

Any suggestions or advise are appreciated, thank you.
I can explain you many things you can do to save your life but I don't have the time and energy to rewrite it all right now so I strongly suggest you read ALL of my posts in the Ergonomics section.

I may have accidentally written some good stuff in other forum categories.  Sorry about that.   Hopefully if you just read all my posts in the ergonomics category where I am responding to other ppl with problems similar to yours then you will learn some vital tricks.

Afterwards I will be happy to discuss questions, ideas, tricks etc. etc.  Good luck.
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #58 on: Tue, 08 July 2014, 00:56:46 »
I can explain you many things you can do to save your life but I don't have the time and energy to rewrite it all right now so I strongly suggest you read ALL of my posts in the Ergonomics section.
I’m mostly curious about this one:
"I designed the ultimate ergonomic keyboard in 2003 but nobody listens to me :("

Care to elaborate?

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #59 on: Tue, 08 July 2014, 03:07:38 »
the only solution is to cut off your hands at the wrist

Offline vvp

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #60 on: Tue, 08 July 2014, 04:02:45 »
the only solution is to cut off your hands at the wrist
Haven't you heard about Phantom pain?
Your proposal is rather brutal and it is not sure it would help.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #61 on: Tue, 08 July 2014, 04:44:09 »
the only solution is to cut off your hands at the wrist
Haven't you heard about Phantom pain?
Your proposal is rather brutal and it is not sure it would help.

Oh man, you've reminded me of some show I saw years back. Fringe People? Something like that. There was an episode about people who were voluntary amputees. One guy sat in his car, legs in a vat of dry ice for hours until his legs just fell off. Another guy was a hopeful amputee, planning to get his leg removed. He was standing in front of a mirror, both legs on the ground, then he lifted one leg so it looked like he was missing the limb and I'll be goddamned if he didn't say with complete conviction, "I feel like a good person now." **** was hunting.

Offline hoggy

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #62 on: Tue, 08 July 2014, 07:27:08 »
the only solution is to cut off your hands at the wrist

A smiley face to show you're joking goes a long way...
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #63 on: Tue, 08 July 2014, 08:09:14 »
the only solution is to cut off your hands at the wrist

A smiley face to show you're joking goes a long way...

the only solution is to cut off your hands at the wrist  :llama:

Offline TotalChaos

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #64 on: Tue, 15 July 2014, 10:19:39 »
You need to get one of these:

Show Image


The rubber dome key switches will be of immense help to your wrists.
My life was literally destroyed by using that abominable keyboard with super stiff rubberdome high velocity high-impact nerve-damaging switches.  :(
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Offline Hundrakia

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #65 on: Tue, 15 July 2014, 22:50:22 »
I experienced the exact same distress, starting at about 18-19. Between my work, (quite intensive physical labour with many, many amazing vibrations to really shake that old carpal up) and my propensity to game and program, my hands were soon becoming unusable. Enter a few years down the road, and my sister informing me that she had a heavy gluten sensitivity that left her swollen (and moody).

A few months later, my aches and pains were becoming lessened, and as it would happen; my inflammation in my joints (as well as most everywhere else) had subsided, resulting in a relatively pain-free experience.
Now I'm not claiming this as a be-all, end all solution, but it may be worth your while to attempt a week or so trial to see if it indeed helps alleviate your issues.

Offline maatmouse

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #66 on: Tue, 22 July 2014, 13:24:37 »
The old typing pools knew a thing or two about ergonomics and the way you sit and type.

A lot of people make the mistake of having a desk too high for their wrists to accommodate a laptop The only way I can describe it is from watching the remake of the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo and sitting like that. Worst thing you can do. Your shoulders will be hunched and your wrists will be higher than your elbows.

First of all, place your feet on the floor flat. Your hands need to be slightly above your keyboard so that you're not putting pressure on the forearms. Your back should ideally be straight.

My advice is to adjust the equipment to suit YOU not the other way around. Adjust the height of your monitor so that you're not looking up or down and adjust for glare. Also make sure you're not stretching to use your mouse or telephone.

Offline Kiwi_321

  • Posts: 25
Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #67 on: Tue, 29 July 2014, 23:22:29 »
I experienced the exact same distress, starting at about 18-19. Between my work, (quite intensive physical labour with many, many amazing vibrations to really shake that old carpal up) and my propensity to game and program, my hands were soon becoming unusable. Enter a few years down the road, and my sister informing me that she had a heavy gluten sensitivity that left her swollen (and moody).

A few months later, my aches and pains were becoming lessened, and as it would happen; my inflammation in my joints (as well as most everywhere else) had subsided, resulting in a relatively pain-free experience.
Now I'm not claiming this as a be-all, end all solution, but it may be worth your while to attempt a week or so trial to see if it indeed helps alleviate your issues.

Are you saying you had inflammation and pains in other parts of your body, other than your hands / wrist?

Offline jacobolus

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #68 on: Wed, 30 July 2014, 03:05:08 »
Are you saying you had inflammation and pains in other parts of your body, other than your hands / wrist?
It’s possible this has something to do with stress (family trouble, lots of responsibility or frustration at work, or the like), possibly compounded by insufficient sleep/exercise, a poor diet, not enough sun, ...

Chronic inflammation is pretty common in the modern world.

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #69 on: Wed, 30 July 2014, 06:33:38 »
I experienced the exact same distress, starting at about 18-19. Between my work, (quite intensive physical labour with many, many amazing vibrations to really shake that old carpal up) and my propensity to game and program, my hands were soon becoming unusable. Enter a few years down the road, and my sister informing me that she had a heavy gluten sensitivity that left her swollen (and moody).

A few months later, my aches and pains were becoming lessened, and as it would happen; my inflammation in my joints (as well as most everywhere else) had subsided, resulting in a relatively pain-free experience.
Now I'm not claiming this as a be-all, end all solution, but it may be worth your while to attempt a week or so trial to see if it indeed helps alleviate your issues.


Sounds like you were doing chainsaw work back then.
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Offline jameslr

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 30 July 2014, 12:14:16 »
Beware, random anecdote ahead:

I have been computing for over 20 years, and typing at 70+ wpm for just as long. I currently work from home full time as a sys admin / analyst and I spend a significant portion of my time typing. I would be a prime candidate for RSI, you would think. The only reason I believe I have staved this off is because of my hand and finger strength. In my younger years I did strength training, but not like the typical guys you see lifting weights (although I did some of that). I mostly focused on grip strength and upper body control including bar hanging (minutes at a time) and dips as well as wide grip pushups, etc. I also have played guitar for over 20 years. I haven't played as much recently, but I still play occasionally. I believe keeping my hands and fingers strong have protected me from developing RSI over the years. I haven't done anything to my knowledge to improve my ergonomics, although I do type properly with my wrists elevated.

To OP and others experiencing wrist / hand pain: Try exercising your fingers and hands. Bar hanging is great if you can manage it. Dips are wonderful core exercises that also strengthen your hands and arms. Pushups are great all around core strengthening exercises as well as building upper body and arm strength. If you can't manage any of that, then perhaps a finger strengthening exercise would help. I believe most of the pain comes from fatigue, and building strength and stamina with those muscles can lead to less fatigue and pain in the long term.
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Offline Kiwi_321

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #71 on: Thu, 31 July 2014, 23:24:48 »


To OP and others experiencing wrist / hand pain: Try exercising your fingers and hands. Bar hanging is great if you can manage it. Dips are wonderful core exercises that also strengthen your hands and arms. Pushups are great all around core strengthening exercises as well as building upper body and arm strength. If you can't manage any of that, then perhaps a finger strengthening exercise would help. I believe most of the pain comes from fatigue, and building strength and stamina with those muscles can lead to less fatigue and pain in the long term.

The worst thing is that my sore wrists ache from doing pushups and other similar exercises :(

Offline Hundrakia

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #72 on: Thu, 31 July 2014, 23:27:39 »
Have you tried to lower your causes for inflammation? Dietary, allergens, etc.?

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #73 on: Sat, 02 August 2014, 16:14:33 »
Was this posted….

I've spoken to several people with severe issues, they were using Datahands as a last resort with some success. They've both started doing ice plunges and both have eliminated their injuries 100%. Dramatic. I was amazed at the results they've experienced.

Look into and try, can't hurt.
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Offline Hundrakia

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #74 on: Sat, 02 August 2014, 16:21:22 »
Was this posted….

I've spoken to several people with severe issues, they were using Datahands as a last resort with some success. They've both started doing ice plunges and both have eliminated their injuries 100%. Dramatic. I was amazed at the results they've experienced.

Look into and try, can't hurt.

Makes perfect sense that it would work. Most all of the wrist pain I've ever fought with has been assuaged by ice packs when I felt the want to use them.

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #75 on: Sat, 02 August 2014, 16:23:32 »
Was this posted….

I've spoken to several people with severe issues, they were using Datahands as a last resort with some success. They've both started doing ice plunges and both have eliminated their injuries 100%. Dramatic. I was amazed at the results they've experienced.

Look into and try, can't hurt.

Makes perfect sense that it would work. Most all of the wrist pain I've ever fought with has been assuaged by ice packs when I felt the want to use them.

I know how severe their issues were, on the verge of being disabled. And seeing a 99.99% recovery with only ice plunges? Staggering. I'm still blown away by the results after all they've suffered for years.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline Hundrakia

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #76 on: Sat, 02 August 2014, 16:27:41 »
Was this posted….

I've spoken to several people with severe issues, they were using Datahands as a last resort with some success. They've both started doing ice plunges and both have eliminated their injuries 100%. Dramatic. I was amazed at the results they've experienced.

Look into and try, can't hurt.

Makes perfect sense that it would work. Most all of the wrist pain I've ever fought with has been assuaged by ice packs when I felt the want to use them.

I know how severe their issues were, on the verge of being disabled. And seeing a 99.99% recovery with only ice plunges? Staggering. I'm still blown away by the results after all they've suffered for years.

I know I was very lucky in my diagnosis of having a sensitivity to gluten and dairy (yeah, I get to be one of those unhappy bastards) in that when I was able to (and consequently, when I am able to) stick to the diet (it's hard!) I had no pains anywhere left. I used to wake up in the morning, head to the sink and run the hands under water for 10 minutes before the pain subsided enough to where I'd want to do much of anything. Weather was an absolute *****, now it's all but a mild pang when I have too much dairy in my system.


Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #77 on: Sat, 02 August 2014, 16:30:29 »
Was this posted….

I've spoken to several people with severe issues, they were using Datahands as a last resort with some success. They've both started doing ice plunges and both have eliminated their injuries 100%. Dramatic. I was amazed at the results they've experienced.

Look into and try, can't hurt.

Makes perfect sense that it would work. Most all of the wrist pain I've ever fought with has been assuaged by ice packs when I felt the want to use them.

I know how severe their issues were, on the verge of being disabled. And seeing a 99.99% recovery with only ice plunges? Staggering. I'm still blown away by the results after all they've suffered for years.

I know I was very lucky in my diagnosis of having a sensitivity to gluten and dairy (yeah, I get to be one of those unhappy bastards) in that when I was able to (and consequently, when I am able to) stick to the diet (it's hard!) I had no pains anywhere left. I used to wake up in the morning, head to the sink and run the hands under water for 10 minutes before the pain subsided enough to where I'd want to do much of anything. Weather was an absolute *****, now it's all but a mild pang when I have too much dairy in my system.



Lucky to have a viable solution, that's the best you can ask for!
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Offline hoggy

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #78 on: Sun, 03 August 2014, 01:05:07 »
It's good to see some success stories!

Postural/nerve related/carpel tunnel/stuff is a long term issue, during that time you might as well try to fix any other health problem - no matter how small.  That way you will at least feel that things are on the up.  Of course, you never know if that minor thing is in some way connected...
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
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Offline Kiwi_321

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #79 on: Sun, 03 August 2014, 23:28:18 »
Was this posted….

I've spoken to several people with severe issues, they were using Datahands as a last resort with some success. They've both started doing ice plunges and both have eliminated their injuries 100%. Dramatic. I was amazed at the results they've experienced.

Look into and try, can't hurt.

Makes perfect sense that it would work. Most all of the wrist pain I've ever fought with has been assuaged by ice packs when I felt the want to use them.

I know how severe their issues were, on the verge of being disabled. And seeing a 99.99% recovery with only ice plunges? Staggering. I'm still blown away by the results after all they've suffered for years.

What was the general method for this? Fill a bucket up with icy water and leave their wrists in there? How long etc? I'm really interested in this

Offline Input Nirvana

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I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #80 on: Sun, 03 August 2014, 23:33:24 »
Was this posted….

I've spoken to several people with severe issues, they were using Datahands as a last resort with some success. They've both started doing ice plunges and both have eliminated their injuries 100%. Dramatic. I was amazed at the results they've experienced.

Look into and try, can't hurt.

Makes perfect sense that it would work. Most all of the wrist pain I've ever fought with has been assuaged by ice packs when I felt the want to use them.

I know how severe their issues were, on the verge of being disabled. And seeing a 99.99% recovery with only ice plunges? Staggering. I'm still blown away by the results after all they've suffered for years.

What was the general method for this? Fill a bucket up with icy water and leave their wrists in there? How long etc? I'm really interested in this

Yes, exactly. Keep in mind I don't do this as I don't have those problems. Like anything it's going to vary with the individual.

1) Try a search on "ice plunges" specifically regarding this issue.

2) I'll send a couple PMs to them and see if they can chime in, so I'll see :)
« Last Edit: Sun, 03 August 2014, 23:35:37 by Input Nirvana »
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Offline SonOfSonOfSpock

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #81 on: Sun, 03 August 2014, 23:49:18 »
I've never done ice plunges, but cold showers help me. I think it's the same concept.

Offline Hundrakia

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #82 on: Sun, 03 August 2014, 23:55:21 »
Literally all I ever could do is run them under water -past- when it was painful lol. I was insane though.

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #83 on: Mon, 04 August 2014, 00:06:59 »
I'm thinking it's similar to sports related inflammation. Ice rubs, ice baths, etc. a little research but something like 5-7 mins in, 5 mins out and repeat 3 times for half hour. (Example)  Info should be available?
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline SonOfSonOfSpock

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #84 on: Mon, 04 August 2014, 01:29:50 »
I'm thinking it's similar to sports related inflammation. Ice rubs, ice baths, etc. a little research but something like 5-7 mins in, 5 mins out and repeat 3 times for half hour. (Example)  Info should be available?

Sports medicine is actually a good source of info. That's where I learned to apply heat to an injury prior to activity then apply ice after.

Offline Kiwi_321

  • Posts: 25
Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #85 on: Mon, 04 August 2014, 20:17:03 »
I'm thinking it's similar to sports related inflammation. Ice rubs, ice baths, etc. a little research but something like 5-7 mins in, 5 mins out and repeat 3 times for half hour. (Example)  Info should be available?

Okay cool. I appreciate this - my wrist pain is really becoming annoying at work. I believe I did the damage when I was playing Starcraft 2 quite competitively in a bad posture. Pretty keen to try anything. How often do you need to do the therapy? (I'm going to have a look as well)

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #86 on: Mon, 04 August 2014, 20:25:24 »
Remember, I don't have issue/do therapy. My info is purely secondhand. But if you want to know about icing shoulders from flinging water polo balls at opponents faces, talk to me!

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Offline Kiwi_321

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #87 on: Wed, 06 August 2014, 20:50:16 »
Remember, I don't have issue/do therapy. My info is purely secondhand. But if you want to know about icing shoulders from flinging water polo balls at opponents faces, talk to me!

I'm PMing them now. 

No worries - I appreciate you looking into it for me!


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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #88 on: Wed, 13 August 2014, 09:53:52 »
You can help your wrists by using Windows 98....with a split ergonomic keyboard and a variety of pointing devices at the ready, that is.
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Offline blackswan

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Re: I'm running out of ideas, what can I do to help my wrists
« Reply #89 on: Thu, 14 August 2014, 14:36:18 »
I have used eggsercizers in the past to help strengthen my hand grip and finger strength. I think the exercise helped prevent or delay the onset of RSI as I type often throughout the workday. Good posture is also very important.
These eggsercizers or similar products are fairly inexpensive to try and see if it helps improve your RSI problems.