Discuss the layout; Typematrix keyboard.

[berserkfan]

http://www.typematrix.com/

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TypeMatrix-Ergonomic-Keyboard-Dvorak-Qwerty-/260903737534
I find this TypeMatrix Ergonomic keyboard very interesting.
Notice all the action takes place in a matrix. Looks like something useful for Tipros. I wonder if anyone has his opinion on the layout.

As someone starting to try out matrix keyboards, I personally would not use such a layout (backspace and enter at the middle is actually not that easy to reach). People are also more likely to hit the shift horizontally (due to movements of wrist) rather than vertically.

What do you guys think? I think with their uncreative and non-satisfying layout on such low profile (scissor switch?) keys, they are not destined to be a big player in the keyboard world.

[Defect]

As a heavy Excel user, I couldn't operate with that bottom - right layout.  I use my right thumb for Ctrl and fingers for arrows and reach with middle finger for pg up + pg down, home + end.

[SonOfSonOfSpock]

I think its a good layout. Of the keyboards with a columnar layout, the Typematrix moves keys around a lot less than say Kinesis. Could you clarify your comment on the shift keys? I don't see a reason you would not be able to press them like a normal shift key with your pinkies.

I've seen a few people on these forums say good things about it. I know davkol has one and recommends it.

[Hazel]

The TypeMatrix was the beginning of my journey into keyboard enthusiasm, before I discovered mechanicals.    I was learning Dvorak at the time; TypeMatrix popped up in my searches and holy cow it looked like The Future(TM)!  Ever the iconoclast, I knew I had to have one.

I used it for a week until my hands started hurting so much I couldn't take it.   The culprit was that "ergonomic" center column.  Hitting backspace requires shifting off the home row, and/or a full extension of the index finger AND wrist.  Delete is even worse.  It was killing me.

There is a proliferation of various (and useless IMO) media keys scattered around the keyboard, which should have been omitted.   Modifier keys are in odd, asymmetrical places.  The tall shift keys seem like a good idea, but they just take up space that could house useful keys.  Overall the layout is a mess.

I salute TypeMatrix for embracing the matrix layout and trying something new.  It is cool that it supports Dvorak (and Colemak, undocumented) in hardware.  The rubber sleeve is a neat concept (surprisingly, it doesn't affect typing much at all).  But it was a pain to use (literally) and went on the shelf after a week.

My experience with the TypeMatrix left me wary of the Truly Ergonomic as well.   Reaching your index finger more than 1 key column is, IMO, the exact opposite of ergonomic.  I don't even use the inner 1.5u keys on my Ergodox, they might as well be unmapped.

[jacobolus]

I don’t think it’s all that much better than a standard keyboard. It still doesn’t bear any particular resemblance to human hands.

On the upside, at least it’s symmetrical, has a very easy to reach shift key, makes backspace marginally easier to reach than a standard keyboard. Ctrl and Fn are still in a pretty bad spot IMO, and that 5u spacebar is a big waste of space. There are a lot of missed opportunities in the layout, in general.

[davkol]

I own both TypeMatrix 2020 and 2030. Never really used the older generation, because I wasn't ready to make a switch and then the 2030 came along.

About the 2030, it's very solid, excellent portable keyboard, its scissor switches are the best I've ever used, built-in support for Colemak has been handy a few times, and at last but not least, the layout is a *HUGE* improvement over staggered QWERTY. Brackets and num-row keys are much easier to reach, so are B and Y, ZXCV doesn't feel awkward when touch typing with proper technique, the one-column separation works tremendously, although you need to move the whole hand to hit BS/Enter (but that's not that different from normal layout with these keys controlled by right pinkie). Two "bottom" rows are a great idea. Modifiers could use some remapping, but that's a minor issue. My only real complaint is that keycaps could be sweat-resistant. The skin isn't all that bad though.

[berserkfan]

I own both TypeMatrix 2020 and 2030. Never really used the older generation, because I wasn't ready to make a switch and then the 2030 came along.

About the 2030, it's very solid, excellent portable keyboard, its scissor switches are the best I've ever used, built-in support for Colemak has been handy a few times, and at last but not least, the layout is a *HUGE* improvement over staggered QWERTY. Brackets and num-row keys are much easier to reach, so are B and Y, ZXCV doesn't feel awkward when touch typing with proper technique, the one-column separation works tremendously, although you need to move the whole hand to hit BS/Enter (but that's not that different from normal layout with these keys controlled by right pinkie). Two "bottom" rows are a great idea. Modifiers could use some remapping, but that's a minor issue. My only real complaint is that keycaps could be sweat-resistant. The skin isn't all that bad though.

really a meaty reply

I'm working on a similar thing with my Tipro now. Being in Europe you might find it easy and cheap to get hold of some for your own experiments?

[davkol]

I'm currently using an Access-IS keypad at my desktop. It's not portable though. I keep the TM2030 at my laptop for that very reason.

[Oobly]

IMHO it's better than a standard QWERTY layout, but not enough. It's one step in the right direction, Truly Ergonomic and ErgoDox are a few more steps in the same direction and I'd rather have one of those.

split board with separate thumb clusters (Oobly DIY board, AcidFires Nexus) > split board with thumb clusters (ErgoDox) > split board with staggered columns > splayed board with staggered columns (Truly Ergonomic) > staggered columns > matrix > staggered rows (standard QWERTY)

[davkol]

That's kinda obvious, except the split staggered part (because of weird lateral movements when touch typing and usually poor placement of "special" keys). However, I find the difference in comfort between ErgoDox (or Kinesis Advantage) and this HumbleHacker-like keypad very small in actuality. I don't drag typematrix into this comparison, because the use case is different IMHO; TM2030 is way more portable than most/all better keyboards.

[dantan]

I got interested and checked, but the prices are horrendous. Access-IS keyboard is $133 used on ebay and the others are not available or in the same price range.

Why are these matrix keyboards so expensive? Is there something special about them? They look like very normal boxy things.

[nameistaken1]

...
the one-column separation works tremendously
...

I think that I'd personally find it more comfortable with a larger separation. I have very wide solders, and find regular keyboards make me squish together.

The Dark Chocolate layout posted a while ago has what I'm talking about, although I don't really agree with it's num-row chopping. Heck, even 4-5 column separation would be cool.

[Eszett]

Life would be easier with grid-like positioned keys, because it could solve incompatibilities, which come up as odd keycap sizes: 1.25u, 1.5u, 2.25u, 2.75u, which we see in staggered positioning. It would be more rational and compatible to have 1u, 2u, 3u, etc. keycaps. For example replacing a 2u keycap with two 1u keycaps, or something like that. In short: we could play ultimative keycap-Lego, staggered positioning with it’s odd keycap sizes doesn’t alow that, that’s the way it is :-(

[davkol]

I got interested and checked, but the prices are horrendous. Access-IS keyboard is $133 used on ebay and the others are not available or in the same price range.

Go to Deskthority.
Buy a used tipro for €30.
Clean it and put some nicer keycaps on it.
Program it using an old computer w/ WinXP.
Profit

Why are these matrix keyboards so expensive? Is there something special about them? They look like very normal boxy things.

I suspect they're built to last and actually work. The target group are businesses and I guess errors can get quite pricy.

They're programmable as well, you can chain more keypads, and some have features like card readers.

[davkol]

...
the one-column separation works tremendously
...

I think that I'd personally find it more comfortable with a larger separation. I have very wide solders, and find regular keyboards make me squish together.

The Dark Chocolate layout posted a while ago has what I'm talking about, although I don't really agree with it's num-row chopping. Heck, even 4-5 column separation would be cool.

Then it wouldn't be so portable though.

Average shoulder width is about 45 cm. One column is already helpful in that case, although 3+ columns feel better.

A split compact keyboard would be neat. A mixture of Goldtouch Go! and TM2030.

[Hazel]

A split compact keyboard would be neat. A mixture of Goldtouch Go! and TM2030.

An Ergodox built like the TypeMatrix 2030 would be amazing.  As davkol said, the build and keyswitches of the TypeMatrix are quite nice.  You could even omit or shrink some keys to make it more compact without hurting functionality.

(At the risk of straying off-topic, I'd also love to see a tiny matrix keyboard in a 12x4 format, fully programmable like the Ergodox.  It would be the same size as the JD40, only with all 1U keys and a full bottom row for modifiers and layer switching.  It wouldn't be very ergonomic, but it would be very cool!)

[berserkfan]

A split compact keyboard would be neat. A mixture of Goldtouch Go! and TM2030.

An Ergodox built like the TypeMatrix 2030 would be amazing.  As davkol said, the build and keyswitches of the TypeMatrix are quite nice.  You could even omit or shrink some keys to make it more compact without hurting functionality.

(At the risk of straying off-topic, I'd also love to see a tiny matrix keyboard in a 12x4 format, fully programmable like the Ergodox.  It would be the same size as the JD40, only with all 1U keys and a full bottom row for modifiers and layer switching.  It wouldn't be very ergonomic, but it would be very cool!)

I already tried to start a discussion about Tipro keypads fitting your description that happen to be on ebay at a reasonable price. Regretably no one was interested. Apparently anyone interested would have to replace the controller and it isn't easy to adapt them to normal use.

[davkol]

(At the risk of straying off-topic, I'd also love to see a tiny matrix keyboard in a 12x4 format, fully programmable like the Ergodox.  It would be the same size as the JD40, only with all 1U keys and a full bottom row for modifiers and layer switching.  It wouldn't be very ergonomic, but it would be very cool!)

So basically the Dark Chocolate linked above. Or better, Atreus. Or the 40% board mentioned in AcidFire's Axios thread.