Author Topic: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy  (Read 4468 times)

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Offline CPTBadAss

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CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« on: Tue, 05 August 2014, 20:52:31 »
I finally finished shipping out a group buy and I thought I’d share some thoughts I had about running a group buy. I don’t really have any organization to this article so just bear with me.




It’s going to be a lot more work then you think
I knew going into this I’d be putting in some hours for this but I lost a lot of sleep trying to print shipping labels and getting my spreadsheet setup. I would highly recommend that you use only *one* spreadsheet.  I made the mistake of using two spreadsheets and it was a nightmare trying to triple checks my work and making sure that I didn’t transfer the information over incorrectly. That was a major source of stress.

The actual packing process for me was easy. But I was packing shirts and not keycaps. That was probably the fastest part of the whole process.

Invoicing takes a while. So does printing out shipping labels for international addresses. Much much longer than expected.




Reference other group buys and use the tools they use.
There is a reason that everyone who runs a group buy uses Google Docs spreadsheets and forms, Paypal Invoices, and Stamps.com. It really makes life easier. Don’t be stubborn like me and try and do things in a “new and improved way”. I did not improve the process at all. I just ended up making my life harder.

Uline is great for shipping materials if you don’t already have some. And make sure you have triple the amount of tape that you think you’ll need. I went through *a ton* of tape.




Murphy’s Law is alive and well.
Don’t know what Murphy’s Law is? Goes like this: Anything can go wrong and it will go wrong. **** is going to happen, do the best you can to stay ahead of it.

In this buy, the international shipping label work really slowed me down. My lack of knowledge on shipping also didn’t help. I wrongly assumed that all international first class USPS packages could only be 13 oz or less. You can have heavier packages, just know they’ll cost more. I should have paid closer attention to the USPS shipping calculator.

One week my car died and then the next week I was working a lot of overtime hours trying to fix some problems at work. This pushed back my shipping schedule for about two weeks.


The nature of Murphy’s Law is that even with the best plan; you’ll still run into unavoidable issues. So the best way to avoid any bad feelings is to just keep people informed. There’s nothing I could do about my car :(.

Make sure you have a backup plan as well. Perhaps consider instituting a groupbuy fee like IvanIvanovich does. The fee isn’t about making money as much as it’s about covering unseen fees. Things like taxes or shipping charges may pop up and are hard to predict until they happen.

I managed to assume that tax was included in the original price of the shirts, which it wasn’t. I was lucky enough to have people help me with that cost but it leads me to the next point.




Do your research and triple check your work
If you’re running a group buy, you’re selling people something. They’re going to want to know prices. They’ll want to know what happens if they change addresses or if they can get a green widget instead of a blue widget. You’ll need to have the answers for them.

And you’ll need to have a lot of answers. We’re shipping a widget to the Moon? What’s the cheapest way to get it there? Does UPS do three day shipping? People need to know!

How much packaging will it take to safely protect your widget on its trip to the moon? And if you’re buying all that packaging and the tape that goes with it, do you already have it on hand or do you need to buy some? I chose to buy supplies since I didn’t have any and pass the cost into the buy. Perhaps if you have the supplies on hand you don’t have to do this. That’s something that needs to be checked when you start your buy.



Patience
Last thing you’ll learn from running a group buy is you’ll get to experience the patience game from a different angle. Typically you’re in a group buy and you can’t figure out why the widgets take 5 weeks to make and ship. Well if you’re running the GB, you’re at the mercy of your widget maker and you’ll have to constantly field questions about what’s going on at the maker. Have two colors of widgets? Be prepared to know what shade it is down to the Pantone number. And then when you get your widgets, and you’re waist deep in widgets and tears trying to figure out how to ship it all yourself in time, you’re under pressure to ship on time. Then you’re in the unenviable position of trying to impart patience on people.



Why bother?
This wasn’t meant to be all negative. There’s an immense amount of satisfaction involved. I’m really happy to have been able to take an idea to completion and provide Geekhack.org with some nice t-shirts. I love projects and working on something new so it was fun for me to give out shirts at Keycon, sell shirts at Keycon, and watch the “What did you get in the mail today” thread for the shirts.

Earlier this year, I proxied a bunch of 6019284 “Kishsaver” keyboards and it felt incredible to have thirty super rare and sought after keyboards in my apartment. It was like I was playing a small part in reviving keyboard history. Again, doing things like proxying and group-buys allows you to experience the community and this hobby in a completely new and different light. So, it’s not all bad. I just thought I’d point some things out.



In addition to some of my thoughts above, I thought that jdcarpe's post reflected a lot of my own experience as well.
« Last Edit: Thu, 07 August 2014, 13:13:15 by CPTBadAss »

Offline katushkin

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 05 August 2014, 21:06:09 »
The question is, do you have any left? ;)

I'm kidding, but this is a good read. I have fallen foul of constantly wondering what's going on in a GB and getting angry with the seller, but you can't always predict what's going to happen. As you've said, no plan survives first contact with the enemy, and nothing will go as planned.

I really don't think I will run my own GB in the foreseeable future, but it's good to know what is in store for those that do.
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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 05 August 2014, 21:07:13 »
Really nice post, CPT.  I can definitely appreciate the work that goes into a GB.  When I originally joined, I wanted to get super involved.  I wanted to put up IC's, run GB's, whatever.  Then I saw all the stress that comes with it and became a lurker.  :))  Still, I regret being a lurker at times.  This community is tight knit and it'd definitely be pretty awesome to experience it differently.

This should be a recommended read for anyone that's attempting to run a GB for their first time.  I'm sure it'd help. 

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 05 August 2014, 21:09:15 »
The question is, do you have any left? ;)

Actually...I think I over-ordered and I have an S and M left. But I need to wait until everyone gets their shirt until I can sell them to make sure I didn't mess up.

I'm kidding, but this is a good read. I have fallen foul of constantly wondering what's going on in a GB and getting angry with the seller, but you can't always predict what's going to happen. As you've said, no plan survives first contact with the enemy, and nothing will go as planned.

I really don't think I will run my own GB in the foreseeable future, but it's good to know what is in store for those that do.

After running this buy, I have a newfound respect for those who run buys a lot or a keycap buy. People like IvanIvanovich or Bunnylake/CTRL ALT or tjcaustin...and anyone else I'm missing. I've only done a smaller GB and a small proxy job. I can't imagine handling $50,000 and shipping out hundreds of keycap orders. It's definitely not for the faint of heart. You gotta believe that what you're selling is really worth it :D.
« Last Edit: Tue, 05 August 2014, 21:28:31 by CPTBadAss »

Offline Melvang

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 05 August 2014, 21:10:20 »
Very nice post there CPT.  While I am in the process of my own group buy, I am just to the point Where I am placing my order with the fab shop.  You had the pleasure of counting out a couple shirts max for each order, and would like to point out that I received mine in the mail yesterday.  I will try and get a pic posted today.

I get to have the fun of counting out a couple thousand pcbs in mine.  Thank you for all the effort and running that buy.
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Offline katushkin

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 05 August 2014, 21:19:12 »
I had a little look, I'm tempted, but yeah, if you have any left I would be interested :)

I didn't even think of that. Like plate buys and huge set buys. Jesus...

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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 05 August 2014, 21:29:46 »
I get to have the fun of counting out a couple thousand pcbs in mine.

Yeah but you've got three helpers right?  ;)

Thank you for all the effort and running that buy.

You're welcome :D. Glad your shirts arrived safely.

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 05 August 2014, 21:37:46 »
Really nice post, CPT.  I can definitely appreciate the work that goes into a GB.  When I originally joined, I wanted to get super involved.  I wanted to put up IC's, run GB's, whatever.  Then I saw all the stress that comes with it and became a lurker.  :))  Still, I regret being a lurker at times.  This community is tight knit and it'd definitely be pretty awesome to experience it differently.

This should be a recommended read for anyone that's attempting to run a GB for their first time.  I'm sure it'd help.

Come out of lurking and hang with us!  I still remember your gangster shot from a contest last summer.   :))   I thought you were gone for good, I hadn't seen you in quite some time.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 05 August 2014, 21:44:30 »
Can I add a few things?

- Keep it to a reasonable size, if possible. Limit orders, and do them in batches. This makes things a lot less stressful in the end. There can ALWAYS be a R2!
- Limit options, again, if possible. The more moving parts there are, the greater the possibility (probability) for screwups.
- Don't take orders and payments until things are finalized and you are ready to place the order with the manufacturer. Yes, delaying the ordering process causes people to gripe and complain about WHEN they might be able to get into the GB, but believe me, this ONE POINT can save you MAJOR headaches down the road.
- Do everything yourself. More organizers = more problems. People's situations may change over the course of a group buy. The more people involved, the greater the chance for errors. Like someone just disappearing. Or someone else who originally had the time for helping to run a GB, suddenly has ZERO time for it when things are about to ship.
- Be honest with people about what is going on. People understand that life gets in the way sometimes, even though they may be disappointed. Failure to communicate is the surest way for people to lose confidence in the GB and take up the torches and pitchforks.
- Keep all GB money separate from personal funds. DO THIS. You may have to open a separate PayPal or even bank account. DO IT. When you are holding other people's money, you don't want an invoice to come in to your Paypal account for that new keyboard you wanted, and now you have to try and find some way to pay for it without touching the GB funds.

That has been my experience, anyway. In addition to all the things you mentioned in the OP, CPT.
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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 05 August 2014, 21:48:31 »
Come out of lurking and hang with us!  I still remember your gangster shot from a contest last summer.   :))   I thought you were gone for good, I hadn't seen you in quite some time.

I'm trying!  Is there some magic cool GH clubhouse I don't know about? 

I left because I thought I was done with keyboards.  I had a GON, some Kaliet boards, a 356mini and a KMAC.  I literally wasn't using any of them but the 22mini-ex so I got rid of the rest of them and now...now I am filled with SOOOOO much regret.  Guess it's back to square one.  Time to start collecting again.
« Last Edit: Tue, 05 August 2014, 22:27:02 by Sent »

Offline Melvang

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 05 August 2014, 22:20:53 »
I get to have the fun of counting out a couple thousand pcbs in mine.

Yeah but you've got three helpers right?  ;)

Thank you for all the effort and running that buy.

You're welcome :D. Glad your shirts arrived safely.

Only one helper really.  Just the wife.  The kids aren't old enough to count that high.  Unless I have my son doing stacks of 10
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Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 05 August 2014, 22:24:59 »
I get to have the fun of counting out a couple thousand pcbs in mine.

Yeah but you've got three helpers right?  ;)

Thank you for all the effort and running that buy.

You're welcome :D. Glad your shirts arrived safely.

Only one helper really.  Just the wife.  The kids aren't old enough to count that high.  Unless I have my son doing stacks of 10

10 piles of 10 stacks of 10.  Boom, he can count to 1,000 now.   :))

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 05 August 2014, 23:21:24 »
I get to have the fun of counting out a couple thousand pcbs in mine.

Yeah but you've got three helpers right?  ;)

Thank you for all the effort and running that buy.

You're welcome :D. Glad your shirts arrived safely.

Only one helper really.  Just the wife.  The kids aren't old enough to count that high.  Unless I have my son doing stacks of 10

10 piles of 10 stacks of 10.  Boom, he can count to 1,000 now.   :))
And you can teach him exponents at the same time. :P
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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 05 August 2014, 23:36:11 »
Good tips guys! Should be a must-read for anyone hoping to start a GB.

Offline Melvang

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 05 August 2014, 23:37:16 »
I get to have the fun of counting out a couple thousand pcbs in mine.

Yeah but you've got three helpers right?  ;)

Thank you for all the effort and running that buy.

You're welcome :D. Glad your shirts arrived safely.

Only one helper really.  Just the wife.  The kids aren't old enough to count that high.  Unless I have my son doing stacks of 10

10 piles of 10 stacks of 10.  Boom, he can count to 1,000 now.   :))
And you can teach him exponents at the same time. :P

Lol he will be 6 in Sept.  I don't think exponents is going to happen yet
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Offline jalaj

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 06 August 2014, 00:30:01 »
Great formatted list of tips.
Don't forget payment options and caveats.
With all the time invested, a GB is equivalent to a full time job.
The regular successful group buy runners have my utmost respect and admiration for devoting much time and energy into the process.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 06 August 2014, 05:10:11 »
Can I add a few things?

- Keep it to a reasonable size, if possible. Limit orders, and do them in batches. This makes things a lot less stressful in the end. There can ALWAYS be a R2!
- Limit options, again, if possible. The more moving parts there are, the greater the possibility (probability) for screwups.
- Don't take orders and payments until things are finalized and you are ready to place the order with the manufacturer. Yes, delaying the ordering process causes people to gripe and complain about WHEN they might be able to get into the GB, but believe me, this ONE POINT can save you MAJOR headaches down the road.
- Do everything yourself. More organizers = more problems. People's situations may change over the course of a group buy. The more people involved, the greater the chance for errors. Like someone just disappearing. Or someone else who originally had the time for helping to run a GB, suddenly has ZERO time for it when things are about to ship.
- Be honest with people about what is going on. People understand that life gets in the way sometimes, even though they may be disappointed. Failure to communicate is the surest way for people to lose confidence in the GB and take up the torches and pitchforks.
- Keep all GB money separate from personal funds. DO THIS. You may have to open a separate PayPal or even bank account. DO IT. When you are holding other people's money, you don't want an invoice to come in to your Paypal account for that new keyboard you wanted, and now you have to try and find some way to pay for it without touching the GB funds.

That has been my experience, anyway. In addition to all the things you mentioned in the OP, CPT.

These are some great points. I ran into the problem of not having a separate account for the GB funds and I essentially had my personal PayPal account frozen until I paid the screenprinter.

I definitely learned from watching other buys that running a small buy solo goes fairly smoothly. I purposely only offered one shirt design and only opened orders for a little while to keep things clean. And to meet a deadline.

Oh and to add to your points and my post, make sure you find a shop/person/widget maker your comfortable working with and can fulfill your goal. You've got enough to deal with without fighting with your widget maker too. I really like the screenprinter I found once I understood his communication style. I'll continue going to him in the future. If you think the shop your working with is doing XYZ and you'd rather they do ABC, consider finding a new shop if talking with them doesn't yield positive changes.
« Last Edit: Wed, 06 August 2014, 06:27:11 by CPTBadAss »

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 06 August 2014, 06:25:57 »
Thanks for these thoughts.  Very useful.

One thing that I will add is about shipping supplies.  I recommend finding a local supplier of shipping supplies if there is one around you because I found they can beat the prices from any online supplier, they may not have minimum orders, and they may offer local pickup.  It was much easier to just make a phone call with one of these guys and go pick up the materials that I needed.
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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 08 August 2014, 00:25:53 »
I used to ship about 20 things a day from the store, and having a special printer that prints the labels to a sticker backing/paper is important.  It will save your ass.  If not, ask UPS/FedEx for their label sheets, they are free and do the same thing, just take longer.


Also, I agree about the transparency thing.  There are always going to be people who get angry, and it helps those loyal to you as well
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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 08 August 2014, 00:57:25 »
Selling my spare keyboards is a daunting enough task :p
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 08 August 2014, 09:59:17 »
I used to ship about 20 things a day from the store, and having a special printer that prints the labels to a sticker backing/paper is important.  It will save your ass.  If not, ask UPS/FedEx for their label sheets, they are free and do the same thing, just take longer.

Yeah I didn't have a printer at all and that was a big mistake. Luckily ninjadoc let me borrow one :).

Selling my spare keyboards is a daunting enough task :p

Are you actually selling some ski? :P

Offline Lastpilot

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 08 August 2014, 10:06:27 »
As someone who definitely plans on running some kind of GB [after a successful IC] later this year, I found this very helpful. Thank you! Man, the challenge of it all somehow tempts me even more, lol.

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 08 August 2014, 10:14:21 »
One thing I would like to point out with using Google Forms and such. 

The order that you have the questions in is the exact order that they will appear as columns in the responses spreadsheet.  If you have a fair amount of questions and such on your document you will have to scroll side to side for all of the information. 

On address's in Google Forms.  I would suggest having multiple questions for this for GB's that are open to international orders because some people will input in the exact format for that countries address, some will input as one single line and it is up to you to decypher that.  It is either that or it just imports the info into the spreadsheet as one line.  Just makes it more difficult to interpret.  Though on the flip side, if you use paypal you can print shipping labels direct from there.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 08 August 2014, 10:15:48 »
Paypal and USPS wouldn't print international labels for me. It kept giving me errors so I ended up having to go to Stamps.com.

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 08 August 2014, 21:33:50 »
Paypal and USPS wouldn't print international labels for me. It kept giving me errors so I ended up having to go to Stamps.com.

Paypal always wanted Priority International for me, so I use USPS.com.  Stamps.com is probably cheaper.

Offline iri

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 09 August 2014, 03:02:48 »
i've read it like "ruining a group buy" for two consecutive times :(
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 22 August 2014, 11:55:41 »
Just to add to the OP, particularly the part about having a backup plan, I really need to implement some sort of plan ahead of time for missing shirts/messed up orders next GB. I had a so-so plan that kind of worked because I got lucky. I'm worried if anything else goes wrong, I don't have enough shirts to cover and I'll disappoint someone.

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Re: CaptainBadAss' Thoughts on Running a Group Buy
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 22 August 2014, 15:36:03 »
Group buys blow.

Unless CptBadAss runs it.


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