Author Topic: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal  (Read 5953 times)

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Offline divito

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #50 on: Thu, 14 August 2014, 08:58:22 »
Made a quick video of my working environment and my daily setup. Hopefully the angle is sufficient.


1. While your arms are level, your keyboard is much too high on that acrylic cover, causing you to bend your wrists upwards.
2. You're not even using your wrist rest while typing, causing your arms and wrists to bear more pressure from being elevated and not in a comfortable resting position.
3. Lowering your keyboard to desk height, and lowering your chair so your arms are level would be a good start.

As I finish typing this, I see you've removed it and have tried a negative angle; that should also be a good start for now.
Varmilo (MX Grey) KeyCool 87 (MX Clear) Quickfire Stealth (MX Green)

Offline osi

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #51 on: Thu, 14 August 2014, 09:14:44 »
Made a quick video of my working environment and my daily setup. Hopefully the angle is sufficient.


1. While your arms are level, your keyboard is much too high on that acrylic cover, causing you to bend your wrists upwards.
2. You're not even using your wrist rest while typing, causing your arms and wrists to bear more pressure from being elevated and not in a comfortable resting position.
3. Lowering your keyboard to desk height, and lowering your chair so your arms are level would be a good start.

As I finish typing this, I see you've removed it and have tried a negative angle; that should also be a good start for now.

Indeed. I'm rocking the negative angle on my board now while using the palm wrest. Just put that into place today so I'll see how this setup treats me. :D :D

Normally I did not use my palm wrest because unfortunately at the time, simply touching the wrest with the fatty part of my palm was causing me pain.


Offline Melvang

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #52 on: Thu, 14 August 2014, 09:20:18 »
Wrist rest should not be used while actually typing.  It is only supposed to be a place to rest your hands while not actively typing.  While actively typing your hands should be floating above.
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Offline osi

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #53 on: Thu, 14 August 2014, 09:26:34 »
Wrist rest should not be used while actually typing.  It is only supposed to be a place to rest your hands while not actively typing.  While actively typing your hands should be floating above.

Yes yes - I "pop" my wrists up from the wrest when I'm ready to type

Offline divito

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #54 on: Thu, 14 August 2014, 12:23:05 »
Wrist rest should not be used while actually typing.  It is only supposed to be a place to rest your hands while not actively typing.  While actively typing your hands should be floating above.

Why put strain on your muscles by elevating them? You're activating tendons and muscles in this position which is unnecessary and alleviated by wrist rests.

This is at least how my kinesiologist friend teaches people working through their rehab. As long as you have level arms (generally supported by chair arms), having your hands in a comfortable position and at rest, ensures you're not utilizing those tendons and muscles reduces the risk of RSI and other issues.
Varmilo (MX Grey) KeyCool 87 (MX Clear) Quickfire Stealth (MX Green)

Offline osi

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #55 on: Thu, 14 August 2014, 13:05:55 »
I always ditch the arm supports from my computer chair. Arms rests just invite me to have a lazy posture. :d

Offline davkol

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #56 on: Thu, 14 August 2014, 13:21:34 »
Wrist rest should not be used while actually typing.  It is only supposed to be a place to rest your hands while not actively typing.  While actively typing your hands should be floating above.

Why put strain on your muscles by elevating them? You're activating tendons and muscles in this position which is unnecessary and alleviated by wrist rests.

This is at least how my kinesiologist friend teaches people working through their rehab. As long as you have level arms (generally supported by chair arms), having your hands in a comfortable position and at rest, ensures you're not utilizing those tendons and muscles reduces the risk of RSI and other issues.
…and increases the risk of vi Esc key syndrome.

Offline vvp

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #57 on: Thu, 14 August 2014, 13:41:13 »
…and increases the risk of vi Esc key syndrome.
Only if they do not swap Esc with CapsLock.

Offline davkol

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #58 on: Thu, 14 August 2014, 13:48:29 »
…and increases the risk of vi Esc key syndrome.
Only if they do not swap Esc with CapsLock.
…and -, =, \, `, [, ], Backspace, Fx, Enter and generally any key that requires reaching. Control in the corner isn't great either.

Offline vvp

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #59 on: Thu, 14 August 2014, 14:12:07 »
Ooops, then you need Kinesis Advantage with Chris' firmware, or ergodox (while not using all keys) or Oobly's keyboard with some palm support. Select whether you prefer layering heavily or reaching keys which are more far away.

Whoever is afraid of RSI/Carpal and uses an old fashioned row staggered keyboard (*) is not informed or in conflict with himself/herself.

(*) This includes row staggered 60% keyboards like e.g. Poker etc.

Offline osi

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #60 on: Thu, 14 August 2014, 14:40:46 »
Ooblys keyboard is a beaut. That would be next reach if I go ergo.

Other options are just too dang bulky

Offline davkol

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #61 on: Thu, 14 August 2014, 14:44:22 »
I had a Kinesis Advantage. It was actually worse, when it came to modifiers and pressing shortcuts in general. That's why I sold mine. The other issue was fixed angle and the palm rests. OTOH 80key ErgoDox is pretty close to my perfect keyboard.

Offline vvp

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #62 on: Thu, 14 August 2014, 16:43:44 »
OTOH 80key ErgoDox is pretty close to my perfect keyboard.
For me too. The only think I miss a nearer thumb cluster and a bit of curving. So I'm trying to add it:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=61323.0

Offline osi

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #63 on: Fri, 22 August 2014, 20:16:04 »
Just over a week of use under the new setup and so far it was a great improvement.

The frequency of "wringing out" my hands is far reduced--from a few times an hour to a few times every 4 hours. No burning!!!!!

May upgrade the the cardboard later if the setup still tickles my fancy.

Great info in this thread. The responses were indeed very much appreciated

Thank you geekhack--I think you saved may hands!!!  <3

Offline nomaded

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #64 on: Fri, 22 August 2014, 22:10:11 »
That is good to hear, but remember to take breaks. Even short 5-10 min breaks would help.
Dvorak
ErgoDox fullhand (MX Clears) w/Nuclear Green Data SA || Infinity ErgoDox (Zealios 78g tactile) w/SA Retro || Atreus62 (MX Clears) w/Chocolatier || TECK 209 (MX Browns) || TouchStream ST
Kensington Slimblade Trackball || Logitech Cordless Optical Trackman || Apple Magic Trackpad
Current Dvorak-based ErgoDox layout || Current Dvorak-based TECK layout

Offline cruzin

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #65 on: Fri, 22 August 2014, 23:12:08 »
I had a Kinesis Advantage. It was actually worse, when it came to modifiers and pressing shortcuts in general. That's why I sold mine. The other issue was fixed angle and the palm rests. OTOH 80key ErgoDox is pretty close to my perfect keyboard.

That is one of the things I am not liking about mine. I love typing on it, but it can get really awkward when going for combinations.
Current: Ergodox (Ergo-clears) | Kinesis Advantage (Browns) -- Colemak
Future: HHKB Pro 2 | Maltron L90 | µtron | Axios

Offline hoggy

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #66 on: Sat, 23 August 2014, 04:39:08 »
Osi, my suggestion would be to let things settle for a while, say a few weeks, but then introduce a few changes here and there.

Pics are a great way to keep our interest up, we haven't finished yet!
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline osi

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #67 on: Sat, 23 August 2014, 12:52:47 »
Osi, my suggestion would be to let things settle for a while, say a few weeks, but then introduce a few changes here and there.

Pics are a great way to keep our interest up, we haven't finished yet!

Good deal! The wrists are definitely not 100%. I'm not sure if I can get back there but I will try!

At least the pain has transformed to at least discomfort for me. I only really noticed it this week when I the wrists and hands were in static positions.

I'll keep this thread updated as we go. Thanks again for the support!

P.s. -- no wrist braces acquired yet ; don't hate me :x

Offline hoggy

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #68 on: Sat, 23 August 2014, 14:29:05 »
The way I see it, the situation you are in...it's like an algebraic formula. Swap long term problems for multiple short term problems,that sort of thing... Wrist braces swap a long term problem for another medium/long term problem, don't self medicate with those. I know others here have differing opinions.
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline osi

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #69 on: Fri, 17 October 2014, 07:34:03 »
It's been a while--so a quick update. I've not seen a Doc yet, have not used wrist braces, nor has my setup changed since last posting. Still have my slab of cardboard under the HHKB and the location/position has not changed either.

What has helped me the most in combating discomfort is simply distancing myself away from work AND gaming. Stopped putting in overtime hours (unpaid overtime) and also stopped taking work home. Also I've stopped my daily gaming sessions and cut them back to at most 3 or 4 times a week. As of now my arms, wrists, fingers, and hands are much improved from when I first made this post. I still make conscience efforts to "monitor myself" and if I exceed a certain time limit sitting and working, I'll make myself get up and take AT LEAST a 15 minute break.

Earlier this year, I believe I crossed the threshold of no return with the carpal issues--they seem to be here to stay. By no means am I pain/discomfort free but the symptoms are far easier to manage than previously. Now I just cope and deal with discomfort when it arises as I know what to expect now. Hitting a fat golf shot will light my wrists up occasionally, but that happens to all golfers carpal or not. It has also been a good while since my wrists had that "sustained burn" from the inside thank goodness.


<3

Offline Melvang

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #70 on: Fri, 17 October 2014, 22:02:18 »
The way I see it, the situation you are in...it's like an algebraic formula. Swap long term problems for multiple short term problems,that sort of thing... Wrist braces swap a long term problem for another medium/long term problem, don't self medicate with those. I know others here have differing opinions.

I am not a fan of braces either.  My wife uses them but only when sleeping to prevent laying on them in very odd and horrible positions.  Unless prescribed from a physician for short term use for a specific reason.

It's been a while--so a quick update. I've not seen a Doc yet, have not used wrist braces, nor has my setup changed since last posting. Still have my slab of cardboard under the HHKB and the location/position has not changed either.

What has helped me the most in combating discomfort is simply distancing myself away from work AND gaming. Stopped putting in overtime hours (unpaid overtime) and also stopped taking work home. Also I've stopped my daily gaming sessions and cut them back to at most 3 or 4 times a week. As of now my arms, wrists, fingers, and hands are much improved from when I first made this post. I still make conscience efforts to "monitor myself" and if I exceed a certain time limit sitting and working, I'll make myself get up and take AT LEAST a 15 minute break.

Earlier this year, I believe I crossed the threshold of no return with the carpal issues--they seem to be here to stay. By no means am I pain/discomfort free but the symptoms are far easier to manage than previously. Now I just cope and deal with discomfort when it arises as I know what to expect now. Hitting a fat golf shot will light my wrists up occasionally, but that happens to all golfers carpal or not. It has also been a good while since my wrists had that "sustained burn" from the inside thank goodness.


<3

Good to hear that you are making improvement.  Please keep us update with other developments as the arise.
OG Kishsaver, Razer Orbweaver clears and reds with blue LEDs, and Razer Naga Epic.   "Great minds crawl in the same sewer"  Uncle Rich
Order Form for MDC Mouse Pad
Contact Form for questions

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Offline hoggy

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Re: Dr's Note for RSI/Carpal
« Reply #71 on: Mon, 20 October 2014, 07:17:12 »
Sounds like great news to me!
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0