Keyboards with staggered column layout?

[cruzin]

For the last week I have been using my Kinesis Advantage. At first the matrix staggered column layout threw me off, but now I'm really loving it. That said, I'm already getting the itch to try other boards. There are a few things I don't like about it. I really don't like browns. They feel way too mushy. I'd prefer clears or maybe greens. I also am not a fan of the keycaps, but can live with them. The location of some of the keys is also taking me a while to get used to.

Besides the Kinesis Advantage and Ergodox, what other keyboards use a matrix staggered column layout?

[snipars]

I don't have an answer to your question, but i'd like to know if you think the kinesis is worth buying? i really like MX browns and i can put my own keycaps on it, i'm just looking for something more comfortable to type on, but it's pretty expensive

[jameslr]

Truly Ergonomic  is another matrix ergo keyboard.

[cruzin]

I don't have an answer to your question, but i'd like to know if you think the kinesis is worth buying? i really like MX browns and i can put my own keycaps on it, i'm just looking for something more comfortable to type on, but it's pretty expensive

It is expensive, but I found mine for a decent price on Craigslist. It's definitely comfortable to type on. I really like the matrix layout and the curved bowls for the keys. It's easy to reach most keys with minimal finger movement. I find I'm moving my hands a lot less than on I do on my KUL.

I bought mine because I was feeling pain in my left wrist after a couple hours of work. I don't get the pain anymore with the Kinesis. That alone makes it worth the price.

[jameslr]

It is expensive, but I found mine for a decent price on Craigslist. It's definitely comfortable to type on. I really like the matrix layout and the curved bowls for the keys. It's easy to reach most keys with minimal finger movement. I find I'm moving my hands a lot less than on I do on my KUL.

I bought mine because I was feeling pain in my left wrist after a couple hours of work. I don't get the pain anymore with the Kinesis. That alone makes it worth the price.

Are you a programmer, or do you use Ctrl key shortcuts a lot? I was having the same problem until I switched to using boards that allow you to switch Caps lock and Ctrl (Realforce, HHKB, or anything else programmable). A home-row Ctrl meant all the difference to me. I usually hit all modifiers with my left hand out of pure habit. I assume a lot of people are the same.

[dorkvader]

Cherry G80-1950
Many access-is keyboards
Many tipro keyboards
Typematrix
Ergodox / key64 / other custom keyboards.

Once it has been modified with a new controller, I like the G80-1950 best I think.

[cruzin]

It is expensive, but I found mine for a decent price on Craigslist. It's definitely comfortable to type on. I really like the matrix layout and the curved bowls for the keys. It's easy to reach most keys with minimal finger movement. I find I'm moving my hands a lot less than on I do on my KUL.

I bought mine because I was feeling pain in my left wrist after a couple hours of work. I don't get the pain anymore with the Kinesis. That alone makes it worth the price.

Are you a programmer, or do you use Ctrl key shortcuts a lot? I was having the same problem until I switched to using boards that allow you to switch Caps lock and Ctrl (Realforce, HHKB, or anything else programmable). A home-row Ctrl meant all the difference to me. I usually hit all modifiers with my left hand out of pure habit. I assume a lot of people are the same.

I am a programmer but I don't use a lot of ctrl key shortcuts. I switched my capslock key to escape since I use Vim, but I had done the same with my KUL and Apple chiclet before that. The Advantage has ctrl by the thumbs which makes it very easy to reach. I also switched left shift to one of the left thumb buttons, which has spoiled me. Whenever I try switching back to the KUL, I keep hitting the spacebar thinking it's the shift.

[SonOfSonOfSpock]

Keyboard.io is currently in development http://www.keyboard.io

[Oobly]

First off, Kinesis Advantage, Maltron, ErgoDox, Truly Ergonomic, keyboard.io, Atreus (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54759.0) and Nexus (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44940.0) do NOT use MATRIX layout. They use staggered column layout.

Typematrix, some Tipro's and many POS boards use matrix layout.

I love staggered column layouts as they match the natural positioning of your fingers (some better than others). It's way more comfortable for me than staggered row layouts or matrix.

I would recommend waiting for AcidFire's Nexus project to reach Kickstarter. It's modular and adjustable and has better thumb key positioning than ErgoDox. Or if you can find one for a decent price, get a Maltron.

[davkol]

What Oobly said.

TypeMatrix and many point-of-sale keyboards (e.g., Access-IS, Tipro, Elcom, Cherry G80-1950 and some G86s) have a matrix/grid layout. Humble Hacker Keyboard and GH36 DIY projects are like that as well.

Most actual ergonomic keyboards don't really have a strictly matrix layout, because the columns are usually vertically staggered to correspond to finger length (that isn't uniform), at least partially. Sometimes, the key wells are curved to achieve the same thing (I mention this, because Kinesis Advantage has almost a matrix layout with separate thumb clusters, but the matrix isn't flat).

Then there are a few keyboards with a symmetrically staggered layout, especially the μTRON.

I think there are several distinct features of mentioned layouts:

• symmetrical (hands are generally symmetrical)
• split/curved/row-staggered (shoulders are about 46 cm wide on average; if you put your hands in parallel, matrix/columnar layout usually feels natural, but if your hands form a triangle, the keyboard halves need to be positioned to compensate for that… or maybe row staggering might help a bit)
• straight columns (eliminate most lateral finger movements)
• column-/depth-staggered (compensate for inconsistent finger length, but it's usually one-size-fits-all, unfortunately)
• thumb clusters (because of thumb opposition)

[berserkfan]

First off, Kinesis Advantage, Maltron, ErgoDox, Truly Ergonomic, keyboard.io, Atreus (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54759.0) and Nexus (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44940.0) do NOT use MATRIX layout. They use staggered column layout.

Typematrix, some Tipro's and many POS boards use matrix layout.

I love staggered column layouts as they match the natural positioning of your fingers (some better than others). It's way more comfortable for me than staggered row layouts or matrix.

I would recommend waiting for AcidFire's Nexus project to reach Kickstarter. It's modular and adjustable and has better thumb key positioning than ErgoDox. Or if you can find one for a decent price, get a Maltron.

Having used matrix a lot, I would say staggered column beats matrix anytime. I don't think I'm buying any more matrix keyboards.

[cruzin]

First off, Kinesis Advantage, Maltron, ErgoDox, Truly Ergonomic, keyboard.io, Atreus (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54759.0) and Nexus (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44940.0) do NOT use MATRIX layout. They use staggered column layout.

Typematrix, some Tipro's and many POS boards use matrix layout.

I love staggered column layouts as they match the natural positioning of your fingers (some better than others). It's way more comfortable for me than staggered row layouts or matrix.

I would recommend waiting for AcidFire's Nexus project to reach Kickstarter. It's modular and adjustable and has better thumb key positioning than ErgoDox. Or if you can find one for a decent price, get a Maltron.

Good to know. You're right, I doubt I'd like an actual matrix layout.

I have been keeping an eye on the Nexus project. It looks fantastic, and I'll be getting one once they're available. I've also been looking around for a maltron, but haven't seen any for sale in a while.

[davkol]

I actually think that TypeMatrix 2030 is hard to beat as a portable keyboard, and those POS keypads are the best bang for the buck by far—you only need to get creative:

• Connect two keypads or get a wide one: splitting halves by 3+ columns is simple.
• Use keycaps of different profiles and you can have two rows of easy-to-press keys on the bottom; the ones in the corners can be pressed with palms.
• Shift pinkie letter columns (1qaz on the left) down by one key (then, the left half is 1wert, qsdf, axcvb and zXXXX, where XXXX are modifiers and spacebar in my case).
• …

Obviously, ErgoDox and improved designs like Axios are still better than this, but $200 better? I'm not so sure.