Online Petition to Unicomp: Please build the Mini.

[wellington1869]

by the way the black dsi isnt just a black modular, its their windows version (where the white was the mac version). Now can you even imagine unicomp coming out with a "mac version" of their keyboards?  
why not?

answer: cuz they dont care. DSI on the other hand is a real company. they care about product diversity and making some attempt to fill market niches. Obviously.

[wellington1869]

 
Welly, I appoint you CEO of Unicomp Inc.

thanks, I accept  :-D

its going to be a new day at unicomp industries. starting with free healthcare for all!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY3aljAO7qU

[how do you embed videos?]

[wellington1869]

the original announcement of the black one was that it was windows version (and thats what the dsi rep told me personally back when I inquired about the modular); so my guess is if they have mac keys on it, it probably means they're going to offer both black and white in both win and mac versions, which means still more credit to them.

And none of that anyway takes away from the larger point about their product diversity...

Only thing I saw in the Press Release section was a waterproof keyboard (yawn).

i see, so if dsi offers underwater computing, ripster says: "sure, but what else have you got?!"

Its a bit like what hilary said about john bolton's criticism of obama:
"If President Obama walked on water, he'd [Bolton] say he couldn't swim."

[Bollwerk]

Just look for Keyboard. The mechanical keyboards out there often are just that.

If you want something amazing shiny... go, get a G19 ;-)

[wellington1869]

Amazon.  Waterproof keyboard.  16 hits.

again i think you're missing the larger point - you're talking like this is their only keyboard or their main keyboard.

unlike unicomp, dsi isnt counting on one or a handful of models and one or a handful of customers for their economic viability. Obviously.

thats the point. they're diversifying their models which diversifies their customer base.

exactly what unicomp needs to do.

are you going to ask me if unicomp needs an underwater keyboard?

obviously not. But let me ask you - how about a mini? How about a numpad? how about a nicer looking design? How about experimenting with the bs technology? how about a modular? How about a wireless model? how about a mac version? How about different colors? How about a left handed version? how about a split ergo model?

how about - any - or - all - of - the above?

and thats the larger point.

but dont hold your breath - its unicomp we're talking about.

[Bollwerk]

Various layouts.^^

Maybe other countries are more willing to get one.

[wellington1869]

Various layouts.^^

Maybe other countries are more willing to get one.

exactly. there are so many directions they could go in, and some of these are fairly minor, they dont even have to reinvent the whole keyboard.

whats missing is the lack of will on the part of unicomp's management.  I honestly believe they just dont care.

[Rajagra]

Unicomp reminds me of Morgan Cars.

For decades Morgan has been told by outside "troubleshooter" business advisors that:

• "You HAVE to constantly expand. It's the ONLY way to run a business nowadays."
• "You HAVE to convert to modern manufacturing methods. It's the ONLY way to run a business nowadays."
• "You HAVE to make cheaper, mainstream products. It's the ONLY way to run a business nowadays."

Morgan's response has been "Thanks for the advice, but we'll carry on making hand-made, expensive cars for a specialist market, at our own pace." And they are still around, proving those experts wrong.

Maybe Unicomp know what they are doing too.

[wellington1869]

Unicomp reminds me of Morgan Cars.

For decades Morgan has been told by outside "troubleshooter" business advisors that:

• "You HAVE to constantly expand. It's the ONLY way to run a business nowadays."
• "You HAVE to convert to modern manufacturing methods. It's the ONLY way to run a business nowadays."
• "You HAVE to make cheaper, mainstream products. It's the ONLY way to run a business nowadays."

Morgan's response has been "Thanks for the advice, but we'll carry on making hand-made, expensive cars for a specialist market, at our own pace." And they are still around, proving those experts wrong.

Maybe Unicomp know what they are doing too.

morgan has 8 different models on their home page :) SO ya, i'd be perfectly happy if unicomp can actually do what they've done :)
3200 models if you count each customized model separately :)

in the end it comes down to the market you're in. The NPR piece on unicomp, IIRC, hinted at the financial problems unicomp is having.  If you're having financial problems, the one guarantee of failure is to not change what you're doing.

In unicomps case, its not a question of making more money; its a question of surviving the next 10 years.

Morgan folks obviously care about their product (Just look at their gorgeous website - compare to unicomps) and their customers and their customers needs (how else would you describe a 100% custom shop?). So already I'd say they're differnt from unicomp.

[itlnstln]

Unicomp reminds me of Morgan Cars.
 

For decades Morgan has been told by outside "troubleshooter" business advisors that:

• "You HAVE to constantly expand. It's the ONLY way to run a business nowadays."
• "You HAVE to convert to modern manufacturing methods. It's the ONLY way to run a business nowadays."
• "You HAVE to make cheaper, mainstream products. It's the ONLY way to run a business nowadays."

Morgan's response has been "Thanks for the advice, but we'll carry on making hand-made, expensive cars for a specialist market, at our own pace." And they are still around, proving those experts wrong.
 
Maybe Unicomp know what they are doing too.

True, but Unicomp doesn't update their styling like Morgan.  As far as enthusiasts go, they don't really have a similar variety of products like Morgan.  I would also suggest that quality in some parts (e.g. the case) has diminished over time unlike Morgan.  I get the analogy, but I don't think Unicomp is even playing that role well.

[ch_123]

Unicomp reminds me of Morgan Cars.

For decades Morgan has been told by outside "troubleshooter" business advisors that:

• "You HAVE to constantly expand. It's the ONLY way to run a business nowadays."
• "You HAVE to convert to modern manufacturing methods. It's the ONLY way to run a business nowadays."
• "You HAVE to make cheaper, mainstream products. It's the ONLY way to run a business nowadays."

Morgan's response has been "Thanks for the advice, but we'll carry on making hand-made, expensive cars for a specialist market, at our own pace." And they are still around, proving those experts wrong.

Maybe Unicomp know what they are doing too.

The major problem with your analogy is that Unicomp is hardly a kuxury manufacturer. Sure they may appear to be one to the ignorant masses, but amongst folk like us, they're on the lower end of price. They're also on the lower end of build quality. They're also their own biggest competitor in the sense that there's loads of old (and better) Model Ms floating around on the market.

If I were running Unicomp, I'd do something along the lines of -

* A cheap, Model M2 style keyboard priced lower than their current boards.
* An almost perfect imitation of the 1391401 priced higher than their current boards. Give the customers a load of different customization options. Really go overboard on marketing.
* Something fancy on the high end. A 1391401 with Model F style switches? I'd happily pay Topre prices for that, probably more.
* A backlit Model M4 with NKRO for the gaming crowd.

Of course, there doesn't seem to be either the machinery, money or interest for them to do stuff like that. As has been said countless times, if only Unicomp was run collectively by Geekhack members...

[ch_123]

Yep, we'd take over Unicomp just to make them make Yet Another Cherry Keyboard...

[Rajagra]

if only Unicomp was run collectively by Geekhack members...

We just need to focus our minds.

DO OUR BIDDING, UNICOMP!

[Bollwerk]

Sometimes I think, they should split Germany and leave Bavaria on its own.
And split Europe and leave the Netherlands on its own... and Bavaria. xD

[keyb_gr]

Nah. I already have an indirect bus connection as-is.

[spremino]

If I were running Unicomp, I'd do something along the lines of -

* A cheap, Model M2 style keyboard priced lower than their current boards.
* An almost perfect imitation of the 1391401 priced higher than their current boards. Give the customers a load of different customization options. Really go overboard on marketing.
* Something fancy on the high end. A 1391401 with Model F style switches? I'd happily pay Topre prices for that, probably more.
* A backlit Model M4 with NKRO for the gaming crowd.

Nice ideas. But Unicomp is not run by marketers. They sell a unique product, the remake of what is considered The Best Keyboard Ever Made, and yet they can't manage to leverage that.

[quadibloc]

What puzzles me is this. Electronics are very cheap these days, just look at all the things a pocket calculator for under $10 can do. In fact, I've seen new graphical calculators for $15 on occasion.

Unless someone has managed to patent the obvious idea of a flexible keyboard layout, therefore, I think this should be something well within Unicomp's means to offer. Of course, that perhaps involves another question; perhaps most people want a keyboard to be a simple device you can forget about, and that means the layout should always correspond to what is printed on the keys.

Also, many offices reject the Model M as too noisy, and that limits the acceptability of Unicomp's products.

[wellington1869]

seriously. i can get an atom processor in a netbook for the price of some of these keyboards.

[wheel83]

But Minis are so awesome! Only cool people own Mini's!  Tenkeyless FTW!

on a serious note, i think there is a high demand especially from the japanese to own a mini.  Hell I've owned 7 of em at an average of 130$ a piece and have no regrets and my friends are quite thankful as i have given them out as gifts. Mini's for all.  Buckling springs 4 lyfe!

[quadibloc]

seriously. i can get an atom processor in a netbook for the price of some of these keyboards.

Asus is coming out with an Eee keyboard computer that will give Cybernet a run for its money.

But the fact that an awful keyboard with a mediocre computer might be cheaper than either a luxury keyboard and a good computer... even if I don't find the luxury keyboard of interest on my budget, some of these netbooks don't tempt me either.

Although they would, if Microsoft were still selling Windows 98... then they would be very powerful computers for a low price. Even if their keyboards were still cramped.

Anyhow, for a little extra money, Intel's ULV chips run rings around the Atom, I remember reading recently. (Or that should be will run rings; now, they do it for a lot more money, but supposedly that's expected to improve.)

[pfink]

Wheels, I'm up to 3 NIB Minis now.  They are addictive.

Indeed. I thought I was done at three, now I've got five (only one NIB, though.)

[wellington1869]

Hell I've owned 7 of em at an average of 130$ a piece and have no regrets and my friends are quite thankful as i have given them out as gifts. Mini's for all.  Buckling springs 4 lyfe!

hey, i'm your friend too!

[msiegel]

hey, i'm your friend too!

he knows when you've been sleeping,
he knows when you're awake,
he knows when you've been bad or good,
so be good for goodness sake!

yes wellington, there is a buckling spring santa claus

[wellington1869]

he knows when you've been sleeping,
he knows when you're awake,
he knows when you've been bad or good,
so be good for goodness sake!

yes wellington, there is a buckling spring santa claus

lol!  Wheels83 can break into my house in the middle of the night, i wont freak out so long as he leaves a mini on the table  Good deal for a glass of milk and some cookies

[Meyvn]

Go bash on those guys a while.  Or loan Unicomp $100K.  Or create your own Buckling Spring company - the patent has expired.

Where did you find this information? (Not that I'm accusing you of wrongness; I'm just curious where it came out).

[aeoc]

I'm just curious though... and I might be missing something but...
What makes the mini more attractive than the unicomp spacesaver?
I mean, they both use the bs system and the unicomp spacesaver has a smaller footprint.
Or is it just because of the retro factor?

confused :S

EDIT: my apologies, disregard this post.
for some reason I overlooked the keypad lol.

[quadibloc]

Patents used to expire 17 years after the patent was issued. The law was recently changed so that they would expire 20 years after the patent was applied for instead. So the date when a patent will expire can be determined from a copy of the patent itself.

EDIT: I'm thinking that the first thing I would do if I started my own buckling spring company... would be to build a switch module rather than a keyboard. That way, it would be as easy to design new layouts with them as it is to do so with ALPS or Cherry switches. Right now, designing a new layout for a buckling spring keyboard is as big an effort as for a rubber dome sheet keyboard - and without the volumes to justify it.

[spremino]

I wonder whether you could saw off the numeric keypad on a regular Model M, just like someone has already done for other keyboards. Well, you'd have to saw off some steel...

[quadibloc]

A Model M keyboard is constructed somewhat like a rubber dome keyboard, since the buckling spring mechanism presses contacts together on two plastic sheets with a plastic sheet with holes in it between them.

So you would have traces on the plastic sheet you need to keep. And because it's curved to follow the metal plate, you couldn't just fold the plastic sheet over, either. (Hmm... fold while flat, then bend? The trouble there is that the folded over place, on the "outside", would have to be bigger, and it can't stretch.)

Basically, unlike a circuit board, you can't cut a piece off and then solder to it.

[talis]

No, but you can re-draw missing traces with a conductive silver pen.

[talis]

The housing is the bigger issue. The controller is quite easy to re-use, even if different from the mini.   As long as the connections are made between the controller and what remains of the matrix it will continue to function just fine (the missing bits of board will still be scanned, but as there are no contacts, they will never register as being depressed).

If work would even let up for a min these days I could get back to the Clacky Hacker project (I'm re-using the standard 401 controller for that).

[talis]

That's interesting.  I didn't that the controller would map 1:1.  The only controller thing that would be different is the SHIFT-SCRLK Virtual Numpad feature.

It doesn't map 1:1, but the controller will function fine with the side bit missing.  If you really need the virtual numpad, you can always use AHK to reproduce it.  I'd think you'd be more likely to run into problems if you tried to cut a full sized matrix and make it work with a mini controller, its possible they use slightly different matrix layouts.

[quadibloc]

lol!  Wheels83 can break into my house in the middle of the night, i wont freak out so long as he leaves a mini on the table  Good deal for a glass of milk and some cookies

This reminds me of a joke I saw on a web site for antique typewriter collectors. A man buys an ancient three-bank typewriter he had long been seeking (perhaps an Oliver). He leaves it in his car and goes away.

He returns, and finds that the rear window of his car has been smashed!

Shocked, he rushes to the car... and finds a second typewriter, identical to the one he just bought, placed beside his original purchase, which is still there safe and sound.

[wellington1869]

This reminds me of a joke I saw on a web site for antique typewriter collectors. A man buys an ancient three-bank typewriter he had long been seeking (perhaps an Oliver). He leaves it in his car and goes away.

He returns, and finds that the rear window of his car has been smashed!

Shocked, he rushes to the car... and finds a second typewriter, identical to the one he just bought, placed beside his original purchase, which is still there safe and sound.

hahahahaha they cant give those away, eh?  
xsphat introduced me to the whole underground world of typewriter collectors and freaks... if you think we're freaks, man, freakiness is one of those things that doesnt really have a bottom, lol

[Meyvn]

I'm new around here, so please don't take this as me trying to be rude, but as the tenkeyless seems to be SO popular here, why would you want one with a virtual numpad? If you needed a numpad, why wouldn't you just rather have the full keyboard?

[wellington1869]

I'm new around here, so please don't take this as me trying to be rude, but as the tenkeyless seems to be SO popular here, why would you want one with a virtual numpad? If you needed a numpad, why wouldn't you just rather have the full keyboard?

The idea is that with the tenkeyless the mouse is easier to reach on the right side (for right handers anyway). Its considered more ergonomic. Plus people who buy the tenkeyless tend to use the numpad only occasionally, so the integrated or virtual one is enough for them.

[quadibloc]

as the tenkeyless seems to be SO popular here, why would you want one with a virtual numpad?

Ah, that's a simple question to answer. What does a real numpad do that a virtual numpad doesn't? It takes up space on your desk. It isn't that people object to the functionality of a numeric keypad, as a way to enter a lot of numbers at once with one hand (even if they suspect it might be rarely used).

Only a few really large laptops have physical numeric keypads, but nearly all of them let you have a virtual numpad.

Then there's the HHKB, which doesn't have function keys. But it does have an Fn key that lets you shift other keys to function keys; again, there's nothing wrong with having the functionality, but if it's seldom used, why let it take up space?

[clickclack]

hahahahaha they cant give those away, eh?  
xsphat introduced me to the whole underground world of typewriter collectors and freaks... if you think we're freaks, man, freakiness is one of those things that doesnt really have a bottom, lol

hey!
Just because I have 24 typewriters, that doesn't make me a freak!!! Dem be fightin werdz!all the other things I do make me a freak! =P

[wellington1869]

hey!
Just because I have 24 typewriters, that doesn't make me a freak!!! Dem be fightin werdz!all the other things I do make me a freak! =P

lol, but you use them to paste the keys and parts on to cars or something, dont you? Nah, not a freak :-D

[itlnstln]

Ah, that's a simple question to answer. What does a real numpad do that a virtual numpad doesn't? It takes up space on your desk. It isn't that people object to the functionality of a numeric keypad, as a way to enter a lot of numbers at once with one hand (even if they suspect it might be rarely used).
 
Only a few really large laptops have physical numeric keypads, but nearly all of them let you have a virtual numpad.
 
Then there's the HHKB, which doesn't have function keys. But it does have an Fn key that lets you shift other keys to function keys; again, there's nothing wrong with having the functionality, but if it's seldom used, why let it take up space?

I would get a Filco Tenkeyless if it had a virtual numpad, but unfortunatley, it doesn't.  I would definitely get a Realforce 87U if I ever decided to go that route.  As it stands, if I want a Filco, I have to Chrysler Cordoba.
 
OTOH, the Cherry G80-1800 is a great compromise.  Now, if I could only find one with browns...

[quadibloc]

If, for whatever reason, they absolutely cannot see their way clear to retooling in order to make a version of the mini with the Windows keys added, but if the pessimism about their being able to get a new controller is not justified, they could do this to provide an updated version of the Space Saver keyboard with the Windows keys squeezed in:



Not an ideal solution, I admit, but it would be reasonably practical.

[rdjack21]

Personally I think the reason they don't do one is because there main customer base (replacement keyboards and OEM) haven't asked for one. If you take a look at their product line all of the keyboards they sell are models for their main business that they sell direct for those that want one.

So what really needs to happen is they need to be convinced that there are enough people that will actually buy one to make it worth it to them. And I bet they look at the sales of there current keyboards and think not enough volume to justify the expense. Or that the ROI is to long for them to do it.

[wellington1869]

If their main business is oem and corporate, i'd like to know which companies are buying these loud, heavy boards still. I've never seen one in a store (i've seen plenty of cherries in stores).  Seems to me unicomps main customer base is individual keyboard lovers who have a basement or office where they can chunka-chunka away.

[rdjack21]

It's the old IBM shops that are buying them I bet. I know when my mother was working at Exxon they all had Model M's on there desks. And most of them where those big terminal boards as well (boscom).

[quadibloc]

Over in the thread I started where I played with the notion of a "Geekhack Keyboard", thinking in terms of a keyboard a bit like the HHKB, but lighter even than the HHKB Lite, which surrenders to convention slightly by adding a numeric keypad... one of the first suggestions I received was that the inverted-T layout of the cursor keys be retained.

This made it more difficult to come up with a design (if it's for Unicomp, as a buckling-spring design, reduced-size keys are out)... and my efforts have tended to remind me of the old adage that a camel is a horse designed by a committee.

Still, some interesting results emerged. Like this one:



Save space by chopping off the numeric keypad... and then keep your numeric keypad too!

[Buckling_Summer]

This is an online petition for the Unicomp Corporation.  It will be submitted to Jim Owens (or any and all management big wigs at Unicomp) soon as we have enough signatures.




"We, the undersigned, hereby beg and implore the mighty Unicomp company, the only existent and viable manufacturer of buckling spring keyboards, to immediately put into production a Unicomp version of the Model M "mini" (aka spacesaver, aka tenkeyless), pictured below.

As loyal fans of the Unicomp corporation, we are asking for very little. You can accomplish the Mini by simply cutting the numpad off Unicomp's current "Customizer 104" model and thereby getting it into production as quickly as possible. "







The world will be a better place if Unicomp builds this:

Show Image

We, the undersigned, also respectfully submit that the following "tenkeyless" keyboards are entirely within the realm of Unicomp's ability to quickly produce, and are exceedingly drool-worthy.

A tenkeyless Unicomp spacesaver:

Show Image

A tenkeyless Unicomp Endurapro:

Show Image

I desire with all my heart:  1  or  3 ...

but the real twist would be if the whole keyboard came out in STEALTH BLACK colour or in DAS-3 glossy black. ;-) Yummy

I could buy them in dt time

[exia]

exia

[ch_123]

New product?! That would involve us retooling our 10,000 year old machinery!

[shmithers]

I would absoutly buy one of these from Unicomp if they designed one.

[Ekaros]

Hmm anyone asked how many pre-payments they would need to agree on this?

If enough people would be ready to put their money down they might agree...