Author Topic: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)  (Read 75591 times)

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Offline dorkvader

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Model M bolt mod tips and tricks.

I will be thoroughly documenting my model M bolt mod. I've done a bunch of these, and picked up some tips. Why publish an extensively photographed guide? My hope is to make it easier for people to see how I recommend doing it, and can see the effect of some of the tips I mention. With luck, this will remove the blocks for some people and allow them to start bolting their own model Ms. I think the hardest part is the actual drilling, so Most of these tips are geared toward making that part as quick and easy as possible. Enjoy!

Tools:
5.5mm or 5/32" 7/32" thinwall nut driver.
knife or sharp chisel
flush cutters
rotary tool
"ball end" bit
1/16 drill bit
screwdriver for M2 bolts

Parts:
m2 nut (1.6mm) Mcmaster: 90592A004
m2*8mm bolt Mcmaster: 92005A029
Model M keyboard



This is what we have to start with: Model M 1391401 from 1989. Missing keycaps and very dirty. Take the screws out with the nutdriver.


Notice the backplate has some corrosion on it :(


A closeup on the corrosion.


Some more corrosion in a different area.


Picture of the label: note the stamp didn't fully strike and the number was fixed by hand with a pen! These guys took pride in their work.


Smaller label in the corner.


To start, I edge around the two rivets under the label with a fingernail (flathead screwdriver works too). I'll remove just this piece. I like to keep the label in as good shape as I can, but I don't mind the small hole in it.


Label with rivets showing.


Now, to remove the rivets! I grab a recently sharpened knife and get started


closeup of removed rivet. Note there is some plastic still left on it. Don't worry if this happens, as long as the backplate can be removed that's ok.


Another rivet cut off: this one looks a little better.


You can see I've scraped the plate a little with my knife. The plate's getting sanded anyway so I don't care about the surface, but it will dull your knife faster. I recommend trying not to scrape it.


The hardest to remove are the two under the label.I try to work them out piecemeal. You can see here.


Once all the bolts are cut off, you have to pull the pieces apart. I usually start at one side with my fingers. You can also start at the left edge instead of the top edge.


There are two locations where there is only a tiny hole in the membrane. This is to ensure it stays seated properly. Grab some flushcutters and clip the remnants of the top of the rivet off so you can pull the membrane out with no trouble.


picture of clipped rivet.


Now the membrane can slide off it. We will still need to re-clip this later.


Springs and flip plates (hammers) are in excellent condition!


Shot of rivets that need to be clipped flush. Note the two halfmoons on either side of the rivet. I try to clip them flush with those.


Get those flushcutters ready 'cause they're about ready to pay for themselves. Here is a shot of a clipped rivet. I used to cut them flush with a knife but it's way better to do it with these (and finish up in the way I describe later)


I try to align the cutter this way so that I can clip the rivet flush with those halfmoons. This makes the next step easier.


closeup of above with flash. You don't have to spend tons of time making sure these are perfect.


another clipped rivet. Notice how nice and flush it is. You need these to be as flush as possible (within reason) or the drilling will be much harder. You can be off a little bit, though.


better shot showing surface roughness of clipped rivet.


side shot of clipped rivet

(no picture) I start at one end and go from one side to the other. The plate has some bend in it still, but the unclipped rivets can interfere with you clipping your current rivet you're on and make it hard to get flush.


shot of clipped rivets.


shot with flash of clipped rivets.



Up until now I've kept pretty much in line with the standard bolt mod. Here's where I start to diverge a little. The hardest part for me is drilling all the holes straight, so I make that step as quick and easy as I can. So I prep each hole for drilling. This also allows me to go a little faster on previous steps because I can account for small variances and inaccuracies there. This is the longest part. Make sure you line it up right, and take your time the most here.


This is a ball end bit for my dremel rotary tool. I don't know what it's called specifically, but the end is shaped like a sphere. It's metal, hard, and cuts through plastic easily. I use this to make a spherical divot in each of my places to stabilize the drill bit when I drill.


Here's my rotary tool! I usually only use speed 2 for bolt mods.


The holes will be made with a 1/16" drill bit. We are using it instead of an m2 bit because this makes the holes slightly smaller than the bolts. This means we can thread the bolts into the holes so they stay in place when we are fitting it together again.


The 1/16" bit needs a different collet than the ball head bit for the rotary tool. I had to buy these online.


The light on my workstation has a plug on the end: perfect place to plug the rotary tool in!


picture of what it looks like when I make a proper-size divot. This makes the drilling go so much easier.


Here's another good divot. You can make them a little deeper if you want.


1/16 bit fit in rotary tool. Notice that I don't leave much exposed. This will ensure that I can't drill into my nice stainless steel worksurface after I've drilled through the plate. I'm not sure if that cheap harbor freight 1/16" bit is hard enough to drill through my nice worksurface, but I also don't plan to find out.


as you can see there's a gap.


here is a picture of some drilled holes. Notice that it's very well centered! The drill bit does not "wander" at all with those divots in place. Drilling is fast and easy. Most of the holes come out perfect. The rest are close enough that they'll be fine.


picture with flash of above


The hole on the left has some plastic in it. Just remove those later. I dust off the barrel frame ("chimneys") after I'm through. Also see how nicely centered the hole is! Those divots take up a lot of time to make one in every single rivet place, but it saves time later with the drilling and makes it a lot harder to mess up.


after a while, plastic will build up on your drill bit like so. Make sure to remove it every once in a while. It's possible for the plastic to build up, and then melt, and then it's hard to get off you bit, but the worst part is that the melted blob of plastic on the end can abrade your hole making it too wide! This isn't a catastrophe if it happens but is very annoying. Just clean your bit every once in a while.


Ok holes drilled! Now we need to dust off all that mess on the barrels.


(anotehr, better picture of mess on barrels)

At this point the barrel frame is really to go functionally. Just flip it over and...


Oh right, it's still all dirty form being used and/or stored for the last 25 years. At this point, I just put it in the dishwasher with the dirty dishes and run it.


another shot of dirty frame before dishwashing.



While we are waiting on the dishwasher to get done, let's take a look at that plate. I have some old sandpaper left over from something. I guess it's 150 grit.


Time to get started with some elbow grease!


more work


Starting to look much better now only because the flash reflection hides most of the corrosion.


Even without the flash it's looking a lot better. I hope it'll be ready by tomorrow.


I'll be adding the rest later.


Mod Edit: Corrected that 5.5mm is 7/32" and not 5/32".
« Last Edit: Wed, 09 September 2015, 00:57:57 by infiniti »

Offline rowdy

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Excellent steps - even I could follow these ;D
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Online CommonCurt

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Good tutorial,  and great knife.  The Emissary is one nice looking blade.
Some of my Keyboards -->
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OTD Koala:  lubed 62g Old MX-Blacks   |   LZ-GH V2   |   KMAC2:  lubed 62g Tactile MX-Greys   |   LZ CLS s   |   X60:  lubed 62g Vintage MX-Blacks   |   GON NerD 60:  lubed 62g Old MX-Clears   |   Filco MJ2 (Beige) TKL's:  lubed 62g MX-Clears  &  lubed  62g Vintage MX-Blacks   |   IBM '91 SSK
                                
       
WTB/WTS ---->
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Offline berserkfan

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no doubt; the best guide ever. It leaves out no step and the tools are clearly shown eg some folks (such as me) didn't know what a ball end bit is. Even if that is not the official name at least having photos clarify.
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline dorkvader

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Good tutorial,  and great knife.  The Emissary is one nice looking blade.
I've used it so heavily and sharpened it so much over the years (I take the hones to it about once every 2 weeks) that the blade profile is beginning to change. I'm thinking about sending it back to benchmade to get it repaired. I always finish it off with a 2000 grit sapphire polishing stone, and I never have to start with anything below 600 grit.
no doubt; the best guide ever. It leaves out no step and the tools are clearly shown eg some folks (such as me) didn't know what a ball end bit is. Even if that is not the official name at least having photos clarify.
Well, I plan to leave out no step (or tip) once I'm done writing it. I still have to cover the actual installation, etc.

Everyone feel free to post your own tips about bolt modding here. I know there's got to be some good ideas I haven't thought up. I'm also touching on some basic refurbishment things you can do like dishwasher the barrel frame (chimneys) and clean the rust off the plate.
« Last Edit: Thu, 28 August 2014, 00:18:08 by dorkvader »

Online CommonCurt

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Good tutorial,  and great knife.  The Emissary is one nice looking blade.
I've used it so heavily and sharpened it so much over the years (I take the hones to it about once every 2 weeks) that the blade profile is beginning to change. I'm thinking about sending it back to benchmade to get it repaired. I always finish it off with a 2000 grit sapphire polishing stone, and I never have to start with anything below 600 grit.

It still looks good  :).  I have a 3550 auto, Auto Stryker 9100, and just got a 530.  I've had one of the autos for about 5 years now, and it's still going strong.

I'm not sure if they still do (although I think they do), but Benchmade use to replace any of their blades for $20 if you send it in to them.

Sorry for getting OT.
Some of my Keyboards -->
More
OTD Koala:  lubed 62g Old MX-Blacks   |   LZ-GH V2   |   KMAC2:  lubed 62g Tactile MX-Greys   |   LZ CLS s   |   X60:  lubed 62g Vintage MX-Blacks   |   GON NerD 60:  lubed 62g Old MX-Clears   |   Filco MJ2 (Beige) TKL's:  lubed 62g MX-Clears  &  lubed  62g Vintage MX-Blacks   |   IBM '91 SSK
                                
       
WTB/WTS ---->
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Offline fohat.digs

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Nice work!

I like the idea of the spherical burr tip to prep the tops of the rivet stems. I have been using the point of a soldering iron but I think I will try your method next time I do one.

For my rivet cutting I have been delighted with the results of using a chisel tip on an Xacto ("exact zero") knife. I use an older blade to cut the rivets on the back plate, since it is devastating to edges, and a fresh new blade for final shaping.

I have always tried to leave the cut-off-rivet-stem-posts as tall as possible. They passed through the plate all along, anyway, and their slightly larger diameter might provide better alignment. After the cutting and drilling, I carefully shave the top surface flat with a single stroke of a fresh sharp chisel blade. It takes both hands, reading glasses, and a careful firm push, but the results are really nice.

The 1/16" drill bit is also the best way to go. It takes some small extra effort to drive the screws through, but the snugness of the set has got to help overall.

Build yourself a frame. A 1x2 costs less than a dollar and takes 8 nails.
Trump gave some private advice to a friend who had acknowledged some bad behavior toward women. "Real power is fear. It's all about strength. Never show weakness. You've always got to be strong. Don't be bullied. There is no choice.
"You've got to deny, deny, deny, and push back on these women," he said. "If you admit to anything and any culpability, then you're dead. That was a big mistake that you made. You didn't come out guns blazing and just challenge them. You showed weakness. You've got to be strong. You've got to be aggressive. You've got to push back hard. You've got to deny anything that's said about you. Never admit."

Offline dorkvader

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Nice work!

I like the idea of the spherical burr tip to prep the tops of the rivet stems. I have been using the point of a soldering iron but I think I will try your method next time I do one.

For my rivet cutting I have been delighted with the results of using a chisel tip on an Xacto ("exact zero") knife. I use an older blade to cut the rivets on the back plate, since it is devastating to edges, and a fresh new blade for final shaping.

I have always tried to leave the cut-off-rivet-stem-posts as tall as possible. They passed through the plate all along, anyway, and their slightly larger diameter might provide better alignment. After the cutting and drilling, I carefully shave the top surface flat with a single stroke of a fresh sharp chisel blade. It takes both hands, reading glasses, and a careful firm push, but the results are really nice.

The 1/16" drill bit is also the best way to go. It takes some small extra effort to drive the screws through, but the snugness of the set has got to help overall.

Build yourself a frame. A 1x2 costs less than a dollar and takes 8 nails.

I used to think "if the rivet posts are too high (and go past the level of the plate) they will interefere with the bolt positioning" but then I thought about it.

Now I'm thinking that "if they are too high" it'll be harder to make a straight hole in them. This may or may not be the case. It's possible that it's just harder to tell if it's straight if the post is low. I will keep that in mind.

I have some wood left over from out recently built garage. I plan to make both frames with it.

The "spherical burr" tip is excellent. I used a soldering iron on one of the older ones I did and it wasn't too bad I guess, but this way is very nice. I spend more time making sure the spherical divot is centered than I do actually drilling, but if you start "off" a little, you can just move it over as you go down. Then the final spherical divot is centered and ready to go. This also means you can spend less time and effort on other steps clipping the barrels. You can be "off" quite a ways and fix it with the burr tip.

I go straight down with it, you can in theory approach from the side of the tip, but it likes to catch, jump, and damage the plastic.

Offline berserkfan

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Nice work!

I like the idea of the spherical burr tip to prep the tops of the rivet stems. I have been using the point of a soldering iron but I think I will try your method next time I do one.

For my rivet cutting I have been delighted with the results of using a chisel tip on an Xacto ("exact zero") knife. I use an older blade to cut the rivets on the back plate, since it is devastating to edges, and a fresh new blade for final shaping.

I have always tried to leave the cut-off-rivet-stem-posts as tall as possible. They passed through the plate all along, anyway, and their slightly larger diameter might provide better alignment. After the cutting and drilling, I carefully shave the top surface flat with a single stroke of a fresh sharp chisel blade. It takes both hands, reading glasses, and a careful firm push, but the results are really nice.

The 1/16" drill bit is also the best way to go. It takes some small extra effort to drive the screws through, but the snugness of the set has got to help overall.

Build yourself a frame. A 1x2 costs less than a dollar and takes 8 nails.

Another valuable lesson from Fohat!

I think it takes experience to figure these things out. One's tools and work space are important for getting things done. I am spending several hundred more dollars to get a good dremel and a bigger clamp tomorrow.

Still, I don't think we need frames for this project. Clamps will work just as well. Put the M on top of anything and use clamps to ensure no movement.
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline dorkvader

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Still, I don't think we need frames for this project. Clamps will work just as well. Put the M on top of anything and use clamps to ensure no movement.

The purpose of the frame is so you can seat all the pivot plates without them jumping out. The spring is in compression a little, and sticks over the top of the barrel. This means that if you set it down on something all the springs will jump out. I don't think I've ever needed to use a clamp for a model M bolt mod, but it's a good idea (when you get started turning all the nuts).

Instead of using a frame, I had used two books, but now I just use the case, or two keyboards since they're so handy. I just used two IBM "unsaver" model Fs to help put this realforce back together.

But if you want to do this more than once, a frame is the way to go.

Offline pr0ximity

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 29 August 2014, 12:03:06 »
This couldn't come at a better time, I'll be bolt-modding my first M this coming week! Thanks for all the effort documenting things, I think I'll definitely pick up one of those ball-end bits.

Any thoughts on coating the plate with any anti-corrosive? I've got some clear gloss Rustoleum that I think I may try. Also planning on laminating the labels on the back, and maybe the plate if I can get it off cleanly. Or I may just Rustoleum over the plate label...
« Last Edit: Fri, 29 August 2014, 12:06:40 by pr0ximity »

Offline dorkvader

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 29 August 2014, 15:50:44 »
This couldn't come at a better time, I'll be bolt-modding my first M this coming week! Thanks for all the effort documenting things, I think I'll definitely pick up one of those ball-end bits.

Any thoughts on coating the plate with any anti-corrosive? I've got some clear gloss Rustoleum that I think I may try. Also planning on laminating the labels on the back, and maybe the plate if I can get it off cleanly. Or I may just Rustoleum over the plate label...
I painted my F plate with rustoleum and it seemed to work. I want to get some clearcoat for the M plates though.

I mean we aren't storing these in the rain. As long as we keep the oxygen off and don't pill too much coffee into them, they shouldn't corrode.

Guide will likely be updated with more pictures soon, guess what just went into the dishwasher:

Offline pr0ximity

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 29 August 2014, 17:18:35 »
I mean we aren't storing these in the rain. As long as we keep the oxygen off and don't pill too much coffee into them, they shouldn't corrode.

Yeah I mean that's what I've been thinking too, but I figure while I'm in there I might as well go the whole 9 yards. Plus IMO the plates, especially on earlier M's, are really great looking. I think the clear glossy Rustoleum I got should accentuate that, not that it's really visible once assembled.

Any experience replacing the "blanket" or foam mat? Again, totally not something that needs to be done, but I've read that the new ones Unicomp sells are made of a bit thinner, more springy material. Might give it a bit more lively feel. I've got one in the mail to me now, so I can report back once I've got it in.

Offline dorkvader

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 29 August 2014, 17:24:02 »
Yeah, I prefer unicomp's "blanket" to IBM's. The IBM is two layers or something. Unicomp's is just one and much thinner. I did that when I bolt modded my 1390120 (and CPTbadass's SSK) and it's the crispest feeling M I have.

Offline digi

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 28 September 2014, 16:54:04 »
If you have one of these floor scrapers, it works amazing well for removing the plastic rivets. Had them all off in under a minute:



Mod Edit: Topic merged as requested
« Last Edit: Sun, 28 September 2014, 17:14:29 by HoffmanMyster »

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 28 September 2014, 17:19:06 »
BAD - ASS

I try to shave the "mushroom heads" off as cleanly as possible and leave a good "stalk" to work with.

That thing looks like it would rip them out by the roots.
Trump gave some private advice to a friend who had acknowledged some bad behavior toward women. "Real power is fear. It's all about strength. Never show weakness. You've always got to be strong. Don't be bullied. There is no choice.
"You've got to deny, deny, deny, and push back on these women," he said. "If you admit to anything and any culpability, then you're dead. That was a big mistake that you made. You didn't come out guns blazing and just challenge them. You showed weakness. You've got to be strong. You've got to be aggressive. You've got to push back hard. You've got to deny anything that's said about you. Never admit."

Offline digi

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 28 September 2014, 17:24:04 »
BAD - ASS

I try to shave the "mushroom heads" off as cleanly as possible and leave a good "stalk" to work with.

That thing looks like it would rip them out by the roots.


Haha, well I did it on a Unicomp and it pretty much shaved them off with little effort.

I wonder if the plastic rivets on the Model M's are thicker/stronger than on the Unicomp? This is my first bolt mod project!

Offline dorkvader

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 28 September 2014, 17:41:24 »
I wonder if the plastic rivets on the Model M's are thicker/stronger than on the Unicomp? This is my first bolt mod project!

They are about the same.

The AT&T KB305 might be a little different as I think they use a slightly different plastic for the barrels. Mine has all rivets intact so I haven't boltmodded it yet.

Update: all photos taken for pt2, just need to upload them.

about shaving the rivets. Other people have used an xacto knife, boxcutter or sharpened chisel. I have only used a boxcutter and a very very sharp pocketknife and of the two, I much prefer the latter.
« Last Edit: Sun, 28 September 2014, 17:43:20 by dorkvader »

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 28 September 2014, 18:22:23 »
a very very sharp pocketknife

I try to avoid metal with my decent knives, even though they can be sharpened. There are burrs and irregularities on the plates that can't be good.

The chisel blades for the Xacto knife are cheap enough. I use a good new one for the fine work, rotate it to the ugly plate work later in life, then throw it away.
Trump gave some private advice to a friend who had acknowledged some bad behavior toward women. "Real power is fear. It's all about strength. Never show weakness. You've always got to be strong. Don't be bullied. There is no choice.
"You've got to deny, deny, deny, and push back on these women," he said. "If you admit to anything and any culpability, then you're dead. That was a big mistake that you made. You didn't come out guns blazing and just challenge them. You showed weakness. You've got to be strong. You've got to be aggressive. You've got to push back hard. You've got to deny anything that's said about you. Never admit."

Offline digi

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 29 September 2014, 10:58:06 »
Would you please post a link to the screws & nuts that you used? I can't find them on the mcmaster website for some reason:

M2x8 bolts (mcmaster mppd020080-100m1)
M2 nuts (mcmaster HN4600200-100m1)

BTW: If anyone has a left 2.25 shift key, I'd gratefully buy it from you! =)
« Last Edit: Mon, 29 September 2014, 12:14:31 by digi »

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 29 September 2014, 11:17:33 »
These have worked great for me.

The bottom item is the self-tapping screws which are probably unnecessary.
Trump gave some private advice to a friend who had acknowledged some bad behavior toward women. "Real power is fear. It's all about strength. Never show weakness. You've always got to be strong. Don't be bullied. There is no choice.
"You've got to deny, deny, deny, and push back on these women," he said. "If you admit to anything and any culpability, then you're dead. That was a big mistake that you made. You didn't come out guns blazing and just challenge them. You showed weakness. You've got to be strong. You've got to be aggressive. You've got to push back hard. You've got to deny anything that's said about you. Never admit."

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 29 September 2014, 11:46:07 »
Yeah, I prefer unicomp's "blanket" to IBM's. The IBM is two layers or something. Unicomp's is just one and much thinner. I did that when I bolt modded my 1390120 (and CPTbadass's SSK) and it's the crispest feeling M I have.

I'll second this. My SSK is the crispest M I've ever felt.
Please check out TactileZine.com!

Offline dorkvader

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 29 September 2014, 13:17:45 »
Would you please post a link to the screws & nuts that you used? I can't find them on the mcmaster website for some reason:

M2x8 bolts (mcmaster mppd020080-100m1)
M2 nuts (mcmaster HN4600200-100m1)

BTW: If anyone has a left 2.25 shift key, I'd gratefully buy it from you! =)

linking to mcmaster is a huge pain because their website is dumb.

However my info in the OP is completely wrong. Here's the data pulled from the invoice
Quote
1   90592A004   Metric Plain Steel Hex Nut, Class 6, M2 Size, .4 mm Pitch, 4MM W , 1.6MM H, Packs of 100   5 Packs   5   0   1.04 Per Pack   5.20
2   92005A029   Metric Pan Head Phillips Machine Screw, Zinc-Plated Steel, M2 Size, 8MM Length, .4MM Pitch, Packs of 100   5 Packs   5   0   3.67 Per Pack   18.35

PNs are
90592A004 (nut)
92005A029 (bolt)

edit: got the link to work:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#90592a004
http://www.mcmaster.com/#92005a029
« Last Edit: Mon, 29 September 2014, 13:19:27 by dorkvader »

Offline digi

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 29 September 2014, 13:22:29 »
Would you please post a link to the screws & nuts that you used? I can't find them on the mcmaster website for some reason:

M2x8 bolts (mcmaster mppd020080-100m1)
M2 nuts (mcmaster HN4600200-100m1)

BTW: If anyone has a left 2.25 shift key, I'd gratefully buy it from you! =)

linking to mcmaster is a huge pain because their website is dumb.

However my info in the OP is completely wrong. Here's the data pulled from the invoice
Quote
1   90592A004   Metric Plain Steel Hex Nut, Class 6, M2 Size, .4 mm Pitch, 4MM W , 1.6MM H, Packs of 100   5 Packs   5   0   1.04 Per Pack   5.20
2   92005A029   Metric Pan Head Phillips Machine Screw, Zinc-Plated Steel, M2 Size, 8MM Length, .4MM Pitch, Packs of 100   5 Packs   5   0   3.67 Per Pack   18.35

PNs are
90592A004 (nut)
92005A029 (bolt)

edit: got the link to work:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#90592a004
http://www.mcmaster.com/#92005a029


thanks to you and fohat, i ordered some up.

Do you guys loctite these or is that overkill?

Offline Cherry1990

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 12 October 2014, 08:59:22 »
Very useful tutorial, but I think we missed the most important part of it: the last one - how to put all thes f#$%&d "hammers" inside their position, how to bolt the chimneys plate to the steel plate without moving the hammers and how to insert everything under "U" hooks.

Problem n. 1: I measured the bolt hole length and it is 4.8 mm, the steel plate and rubber foil are 2.0 mm. 4.8+2.0=6.8 mm. Are not too few 1.2 mm only to fix a 1.6 mm nut? And I not counted the growers thickness...

Problem n. 2: The steel plate is touching the plastic lower shell under the Space Bar row and approximately until under Enter key, there is not space for a nut between them. Steel plate, rubber foil and chimneys plastic plate must go under the "U" shaped hooks of the plastic lower shell...
The bolt head thickness, for an M2 bolt, is 1.6 mm, same for the M2 nut (slim nut can be 1.2 mm).

Problem n. 3: How to keep hammers in their position? With a scotch tape every one?

Any suggestion? How have you continued the assembly?

Thank you! ;)
PBT forever!

Offline Oobly

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 12 October 2014, 14:51:15 »
Very useful tutorial, but I think we missed the most important part of it: the last one - how to put all thes f#$%&d "hammers" inside their position, how to bolt the chimneys plate to the steel plate without moving the hammers and how to insert everything under "U" hooks.

Problem n. 1: I measured the bolt hole length and it is 4.8 mm, the steel plate and rubber foil are 2.0 mm. 4.8+2.0=6.8 mm. Are not too few 1.2 mm only to fix a 1.6 mm nut? And I not counted the growers thickness...

Problem n. 2: The steel plate is touching the plastic lower shell under the Space Bar row and approximately until under Enter key, there is not space for a nut between them. Steel plate, rubber foil and chimneys plastic plate must go under the "U" shaped hooks of the plastic lower shell...
The bolt head thickness, for an M2 bolt, is 1.6 mm, same for the M2 nut (slim nut can be 1.2 mm).

Problem n. 3: How to keep hammers in their position? With a scotch tape every one?

Any suggestion? How have you continued the assembly?

Thank you! ;)

Take the keycaps off. Hold the plate up by resting it on something on both sides (so the springs can stick out the barrels) before installing all the hammers. Then put the layers on in order (rubber sheet, membranes, steel plate).

I use countersunk screws like this for the bottom 2 rows of "bolts" with the nuts on the top side: http://www.hexcrews.com/a.p.-m2x8-flat-countersunk-head-socket-screw.aspx
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline dorkvader

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 12 October 2014, 16:11:44 »
Very useful tutorial, but I think we missed the most important part of it: the last one - how to put all thes f#$%&d "hammers" inside their position, how to bolt the chimneys plate to the steel plate without moving the hammers and how to insert everything under "U" hooks.

Problem n. 1: I measured the bolt hole length and it is 4.8 mm, the steel plate and rubber foil are 2.0 mm. 4.8+2.0=6.8 mm. Are not too few 1.2 mm only to fix a 1.6 mm nut? And I not counted the growers thickness...

Problem n. 2: The steel plate is touching the plastic lower shell under the Space Bar row and approximately until under Enter key, there is not space for a nut between them. Steel plate, rubber foil and chimneys plastic plate must go under the "U" shaped hooks of the plastic lower shell...
The bolt head thickness, for an M2 bolt, is 1.6 mm, same for the M2 nut (slim nut can be 1.2 mm).

Problem n. 3: How to keep hammers in their position? With a scotch tape every one?

Any suggestion? How have you continued the assembly?

Thank you! ;)
Not missed, I just took all the pictures the next day and have uploaded them but not written anything yet. These tings take time and I had a weeding to attend this weekend. I have some tips as keeping the hammers in place can be a bit of a challenge. I usually use the two case pieces or some book to elevate the barrel frame so the springs don't make them pop outof place when I'm reattaching the bolts, but making a frame is the best choice by far, especially if you want to do it more than once.

Answer to problem #1: The nuts show less than 1 thread above, even when fully tightened. Any longer bolts and it will not fit in the case. Any shorter and there is not enough room for the nuts. I will have pictures.

Answer to problem #2: you will have them contacting each other in the front. The front edge will fit very tightly because of this, but it will still work. This is one reason I leave the front row bolts off. If you want to use bolts on the front row, you will need to put them in the opposite way.

Answer to problem #3 is above. Some people use tape, but I find that it just helps you quickly remove them and put them back, not hold them in place.



I will have the rest of this guide up soontm.

Offline Cherry1990

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 12 October 2014, 17:23:23 »
Ok, thank you, take your time. I have yet to order nuts & bolts fom Spain and weld/glue all chimneys pieces togheter...
I will search for the recessed bolts... ;)
PBT forever!

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 12 October 2014, 19:02:09 »
I had a weeding to attend this weekend.

I wish that I had attended a weeding this weekend.
Trump gave some private advice to a friend who had acknowledged some bad behavior toward women. "Real power is fear. It's all about strength. Never show weakness. You've always got to be strong. Don't be bullied. There is no choice.
"You've got to deny, deny, deny, and push back on these women," he said. "If you admit to anything and any culpability, then you're dead. That was a big mistake that you made. You didn't come out guns blazing and just challenge them. You showed weakness. You've got to be strong. You've got to be aggressive. You've got to push back hard. You've got to deny anything that's said about you. Never admit."

Offline berserkfan

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #29 on: Sun, 12 October 2014, 20:47:08 »
Ok, thank you, take your time. I have yet to order nuts & bolts fom Spain and weld/glue all chimneys pieces togheter...
I will search for the recessed bolts... ;)

There are no nuts and bolts in Italy?  :eek:

OK, nuts I know there still are plenty especially in Rome, but am surprised about the bolts thing. Can't imagine the proud makers of Ferrari ordering such basic things from abroad.
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline berserkfan

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 12 October 2014, 20:52:47 »
I had a weeding to attend this weekend.

I wish that I had attended a weeding this weekend.

Fohat, I remember you live in a suburb?

Is your neighborhood association coming after you for not cutting the grass already?

I lived in a suburb only briefly. Enough to hate it as much as the commies and Nazis hated each other. That place was full of goose stepping Nazis who won't even let you paint your door a different color. Oh, and surprisingly they were female. Dunno if that's representative of neighborhood Nazis in the US.
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline pr0ximity

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 14 October 2014, 21:39:14 »
Yeah, I prefer unicomp's "blanket" to IBM's. The IBM is two layers or something. Unicomp's is just one and much thinner. I did that when I bolt modded my 1390120 (and CPTbadass's SSK) and it's the crispest feeling M I have.

I'll second this. My SSK is the crispest M I've ever felt.

Finished doing mine and I love the feeling of the Unicomp blanket. Highly recommended to others taking on a bolt mod.


« Last Edit: Tue, 14 October 2014, 21:42:07 by pr0ximity »

Offline dorkvader

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 14 October 2014, 21:41:39 »
Yeah, I prefer unicomp's "blanket" to IBM's. The IBM is two layers or something. Unicomp's is just one and much thinner. I did that when I bolt modded my 1390120 (and CPTbadass's SSK) and it's the crispest feeling M I have.

I'll second this. My SSK is the crispest M I've ever felt.

Finished doing mine and I love the feeling of the Unicomp blanket. Highly recommended to others taking on a bolt mod.


Yeah, blanket is awesome. Glad you enjoyed it. If I may ask what year / version model M do you have?

Offline pr0ximity

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 14 October 2014, 21:43:18 »
Yeah, blanket is awesome. Glad you enjoyed it. If I may ask what year / version model M do you have?

I've got a 1390120 from May 1986. Here's my small progress album of my work, your photoessay definitely helped me along the way:

http://imgur.com/a/AVFvZ

Offline ander

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(Please, no rags about posting to an older topic—this new info pertains to this specific article, which continues to be consulted.)

As Dorkvader recommended, I ordered machine screws and hex nuts for this project from McMaster-Carr. However, they cancelled the order because I was in Canada, saying that they "accept international orders only from businesses."

In case anyone else runs into this problem, I've found some other inexpensive sources for the parts here on eBay, from people who have no problems shipping them anywhere:

m2x0.4 8mm machine screws (eBay seller "wongchuham")

m2x0.4 hex nuts (eBay seller "anycircuit1")

Cheers, A.
« Last Edit: Thu, 19 March 2015, 04:52:46 by ander »
“The cool thing about being famous is traveling. I've always wanted to travel across seas, like to Canada and stuff.”
– Britney Spears

Offline fohat.digs

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McMaster-Carr sells better quality, so the cheap Chinese gear will probably give you a few stripped nuts.

Even though M-C is "local" for me (still half an hour each way) I have started buying on ebay.

However, don't worry, because you are replacing little melted plastic sticks with steel hardware!
Trump gave some private advice to a friend who had acknowledged some bad behavior toward women. "Real power is fear. It's all about strength. Never show weakness. You've always got to be strong. Don't be bullied. There is no choice.
"You've got to deny, deny, deny, and push back on these women," he said. "If you admit to anything and any culpability, then you're dead. That was a big mistake that you made. You didn't come out guns blazing and just challenge them. You showed weakness. You've got to be strong. You've got to be aggressive. You've got to push back hard. You've got to deny anything that's said about you. Never admit."

Offline E TwentyNine

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Even though M-C is "local" for me (still half an hour each way) I have started buying on ebay.

Who is your preferred ebay seller for this?
Daily driver: SSK or Tenkeyless IBM AT
1984 Model M Industrial Prototype ⌨ 1992 Black Oval Industrial SSK ⌨ 1982 5251 Beam Spring ⌨ 89 Key "SSK" ⌨ M13 triplets

Offline fohat.digs

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Who is your preferred ebay seller for this?

Random. I have only done it twice, I just search something like "M2 8mm machine screw" and that usually produces nuts and washers as well.
Trump gave some private advice to a friend who had acknowledged some bad behavior toward women. "Real power is fear. It's all about strength. Never show weakness. You've always got to be strong. Don't be bullied. There is no choice.
"You've got to deny, deny, deny, and push back on these women," he said. "If you admit to anything and any culpability, then you're dead. That was a big mistake that you made. You didn't come out guns blazing and just challenge them. You showed weakness. You've got to be strong. You've got to be aggressive. You've got to push back hard. You've got to deny anything that's said about you. Never admit."

Offline ander

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Quote from: fohat.digs
McMaster-Carr sells better quality, so the cheap Chinese gear will probably give you a few stripped nuts.

Unfortunately, my only other choice would be to buy them at a hardware store for 50¢. For each pair.

Quote from: fohat.digs
Even though M-C is "local" for me (still half an hour each way) I have started buying on ebay. [to E TwentyNine] Random... I just search something like "M2 8mm machine screw" and that usually produces nuts and washers as well.

So you’re getting the same “cheap” stuff now? I’m wondering why you brought it up, then.
 
Quote from: fohat.digs
However, don't worry, because you are replacing little melted plastic sticks with steel hardware!

Well, yes, there is that. (BTW, fohat, I think your sig is brilliant. Did you see Oliver Stone’s film “W”?)
“The cool thing about being famous is traveling. I've always wanted to travel across seas, like to Canada and stuff.”
– Britney Spears

Offline fohat.digs

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In several of my guides I posted a receipt from McMaster-Carr to show the sizes and types of hardware that I bought from them. They really aren't very expensive, but apparently international buyers have a problem.

Anybody should be able to get cheap hardware from China if they are willing to wait 3 weeks. Hardware stores around here don't carry screws that small at any price, even M3 is rarely available.

I can't remember where I snagged that quote, it was around the time of our last election where 19% of registered voters claimed to have produced a "mandate" ....

My relationship with Oliver Stone is certainly love/hate with more hate than love. I come out of his movies exhausted, frustrated, and angry every time, but they are entertaining. He can create a powerful experience, but I fear that with the decline of real news reporting and with people no longer reading, the twisted, eccentric viewpoints he puts forward will take on a greater false "historic significance" than they deserve.
Trump gave some private advice to a friend who had acknowledged some bad behavior toward women. "Real power is fear. It's all about strength. Never show weakness. You've always got to be strong. Don't be bullied. There is no choice.
"You've got to deny, deny, deny, and push back on these women," he said. "If you admit to anything and any culpability, then you're dead. That was a big mistake that you made. You didn't come out guns blazing and just challenge them. You showed weakness. You've got to be strong. You've got to be aggressive. You've got to push back hard. You've got to deny anything that's said about you. Never admit."

Offline ander

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Perhaps, but I can't say I found his depiction of Dubya very far off the mark. I think the problem there was that the real person and events were so unlikely, the movie couldn't possibly be as ludicrous or alarming.

BTW, this has nothing to do with bolt-mods. <--acknowledging topic-drift
“The cool thing about being famous is traveling. I've always wanted to travel across seas, like to Canada and stuff.”
– Britney Spears

Offline SpaceGhost

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For those of you who have used the Unicomp white latex blanket to replace the original IBM blanket, I have a question:
Does the Unicomp blanket have any effect on the amount of spring pinging compared to the original IBM blanket? I like the idea of increasing the crispness of the clicks, but am not fond of pinging.

Offline njbair

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    • nickbair.net
For those of you who have used the Unicomp white latex blanket to replace the original IBM blanket, I have a question:
Does the Unicomp blanket have any effect on the amount of spring pinging compared to the original IBM blanket? I like the idea of increasing the crispness of the clicks, but am not fond of pinging.
I am about to complete this mod on an SSK. Once the screws get here. I was planning to do a floss mod (well, paracord instead of floss) to address the pinging anyway but I'll try it without floss a bit first and let you know.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline SpaceGhost

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For those of you who have used the Unicomp white latex blanket to replace the original IBM blanket, I have a question:
Does the Unicomp blanket have any effect on the amount of spring pinging compared to the original IBM blanket? I like the idea of increasing the crispness of the clicks, but am not fond of pinging.
I am about to complete this mod on an SSK. Once the screws get here. I was planning to do a floss mod (well, paracord instead of floss) to address the pinging anyway but I'll try it without floss a bit first and let you know.

Thanks, njbair!

I've done a few experiments with floss modding on Model M's, using the often-recommended round floss, but found that either the pinging was not adequately reduced or that it muffled the click. Seems like sharp, crisp clicks and excessive pinging go hand-in-hand, and that reducing one also reduces the other. So your results using the Unicomp white blanket with and without the paracord mod will be most interesting.

On the subject of spring pinging, I've sometimes found that re-seating the spring on the pivot plate (i.e., the "hammer") reduces pinging. If the bottom couple of coils on the spring are lifted slightly at the 12 o'clock position of the retaining stud on the pivot plate, then clicks may be softer and pinging may be increased -- the one instance where softer clicks may be accompanied by excessive pinging. By pressing the spring coils down all the way at the 12 o'clock position of the retaining stud, the spring will not lean forward as much and produces a sharper click when it buckles. I'm not sure why this reduces pinging, but it may be that the acoustic coupling between the spring and the pivot plate are improved, thereby increasing the ping-damping effect of the blanket.

Offline njbair

  • Posts: 2825
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    • nickbair.net
For those of you who have used the Unicomp white latex blanket to replace the original IBM blanket, I have a question:
Does the Unicomp blanket have any effect on the amount of spring pinging compared to the original IBM blanket? I like the idea of increasing the crispness of the clicks, but am not fond of pinging.
I am about to complete this mod on an SSK. Once the screws get here. I was planning to do a floss mod (well, paracord instead of floss) to address the pinging anyway but I'll try it without floss a bit first and let you know.

Thanks, njbair!

I've done a few experiments with floss modding on Model M's, using the often-recommended round floss, but found that either the pinging was not adequately reduced or that it muffled the click. Seems like sharp, crisp clicks and excessive pinging go hand-in-hand, and that reducing one also reduces the other. So your results using the Unicomp white blanket with and without the paracord mod will be most interesting.

On the subject of spring pinging, I've sometimes found that re-seating the spring on the pivot plate (i.e., the "hammer") reduces pinging. If the bottom couple of coils on the spring are lifted slightly at the 12 o'clock position of the retaining stud on the pivot plate, then clicks may be softer and pinging may be increased -- the one instance where softer clicks may be accompanied by excessive pinging. By pressing the spring coils down all the way at the 12 o'clock position of the retaining stud, the spring will not lean forward as much and produces a sharper click when it buckles. I'm not sure why this reduces pinging, but it may be that the acoustic coupling between the spring and the pivot plate are improved, thereby increasing the ping-damping effect of the blanket.
I'm going to try the paracord because I read somewhere on here that someone takes out the strands from the core and uses that. But I would love to find something a bit less labor-intensive that can do the same thing. So I've also ordered some #18 nylon cord which is meant for beading and crocheting. Maybe that will work. I'll record both with my ATR-2500 so I should have some high quality audio samples for everyone to check out.

I also ordered one more item to try in place of the paracord, but I'm going to leave that one for a surprise...

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline fohat.digs

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Does the Unicomp blanket have any effect on the amount of spring pinging compared to the original IBM blanket?
I like the idea of increasing the crispness of the clicks, but am not fond of pinging.


I am about to complete this mod on an SSK. Once the screws get here. I was planning to do a floss mod (well, paracord instead of floss) to address the pinging anyway but I'll try it without floss a bit first and let you know.


The thin latex blanket does make for a crisper feel, but a Model M will never be even remotely as crisp as an F.

I would not use the word "ping" for a Model M in the same way that I would for a Model F, since there are very few of the higher overtones in comparison. The sound of the M is deadened somewhat, but not in the satisfying way the way that it is for the F, since the M is rather dead already.

To me, a floss mod is essential for every Model F I own, but I have stopped doing it on Ms altogether.

Also, I took some of the internal strands out of (military surplus) parachute cord that I have, and it seems much tougher and denser than the Oral-B Superfloss that I have used.
Trump gave some private advice to a friend who had acknowledged some bad behavior toward women. "Real power is fear. It's all about strength. Never show weakness. You've always got to be strong. Don't be bullied. There is no choice.
"You've got to deny, deny, deny, and push back on these women," he said. "If you admit to anything and any culpability, then you're dead. That was a big mistake that you made. You didn't come out guns blazing and just challenge them. You showed weakness. You've got to be strong. You've got to be aggressive. You've got to push back hard. You've got to deny anything that's said about you. Never admit."

Offline njbair

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    • nickbair.net


Does the Unicomp blanket have any effect on the amount of spring pinging compared to the original IBM blanket?
I like the idea of increasing the crispness of the clicks, but am not fond of pinging.


I am about to complete this mod on an SSK. Once the screws get here. I was planning to do a floss mod (well, paracord instead of floss) to address the pinging anyway but I'll try it without floss a bit first and let you know.


The thin latex blanket does make for a crisper feel, but a Model M will never be even remotely as crisp as an F.

I would not use the word "ping" for a Model M in the same way that I would for a Model F, since there are very few of the higher overtones in comparison. The sound of the M is deadened somewhat, but not in the satisfying way the way that it is for the F, since the M is rather dead already.

To me, a floss mod is essential for every Model F I own, but I have stopped doing it on Ms altogether.

Also, I took some of the internal strands out of (military surplus) parachute cord that I have, and it seems much tougher and denser than the Oral-B Superfloss that I have used.
I definitely don't want to kill the (already dampened) crispness of the Model M's buckling springs, which is why I'm going to try the third "secret" item I mentioned above.

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Offline SpaceGhost

  • Posts: 90
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The thin latex blanket does make for a crisper feel, but a Model M will never be even remotely as crisp as an F.

I would not use the word "ping" for a Model M in the same way that I would for a Model F, since there are very few of the higher overtones in comparison. The sound of the M is deadened somewhat, but not in the satisfying way the way that it is for the F, since the M is rather dead already.


Fohat, your comments remind me of one of my earliest experiences with the Model M. It was back in the late 80's, when the Model M had already replaced the Model F, but Model F's were still available at many surplus electronics dealers. I saw some of them at one such dealer, but passed on the opportunity and opted for an "up-to-date" Model M instead.

My initial reaction to the Model M was much as you describe -- it seemed a bit "deadened" and "plastic-y" by comparison to my memory of the Model F's I had recently seen at the surplus dealer. There was just some elusive, "more mechanical" quality about the F's keystrokes that seemed to be muted in the M. Maybe it was the significant differences in not only the amount of ping, but also the harmonic structure (as you pointed out). The F "sings" when you type on it rapidly, more so than an M.

Furthermore, the "click" on the "F" has a bit more "whack" to it -- probably (as someone else has pointed out) due to the larger and more massive "flipper" in the F smacking down on the hard surface of its PCB; compared to the much smaller and less massive "hammers" (pivot plates) of the M striking the soft rubber blanket in the slightly-compressible "strike zones" of the mylar membrane sandwich of the M, somewhat muting the spring pinging and the buckling click and minus the "whack" component of the F's actuation point.

BTW, can someone confirm that the Model F's flippers actually do make physical contact with the PCB? I'm assuming they do, but I don't know this for certain.
« Last Edit: Sun, 12 April 2015, 16:17:45 by SpaceGhost »

Offline njbair

  • Posts: 2825
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    • nickbair.net

The thin latex blanket does make for a crisper feel, but a Model M will never be even remotely as crisp as an F.

I would not use the word "ping" for a Model M in the same way that I would for a Model F, since there are very few of the higher overtones in comparison. The sound of the M is deadened somewhat, but not in the satisfying way the way that it is for the F, since the M is rather dead already.


Fohat, your comments remind me of one of my earliest experiences with the Model M. It was back in the late 80's, when the Model M had already replaced the Model F, but Model F's were still available at many surplus electronics dealers. I saw some of them at one such dealer, but passed on the opportunity and opted for an "up-to-date" Model M instead.

My initial reaction to the Model M was much as you describe -- it seemed a bit "deadened" and "plastic-y" by comparison to my memory of the Model F's I had recently seen at the surplus dealer. There was just some elusive, "more mechanical" quality about the F's keystrokes that seemed to be muted in the M. Maybe it was the significant differences in not only the amount of ping, but also the harmonic structure (as you pointed out). The F "sings" when you type on it rapidly, more so than an M.

Furthermore, the "click" on the "F" has a bit more "whack" to it -- probably (as someone else has pointed out) due to the larger and more massive "flipper" in the F smacking down on the hard surface of its PCB; compared to the much smaller and less massive "hammers" (pivot plates) of the M striking the soft rubber blanket in the slightly-compressible "strike zones" of the mylar membrane sandwich of the M, somewhat muting the spring pinging and the buckling click and minus the "whack" component of the F's actuation point.

BTW, can someone confirm that the Model F's flippers actually do make physical contact with the PCB? I'm assuming they do, but I don't know this for certain.
Wouldn't they have to make contact to complete the circuit? Or do I misunderstand how the Model F works?

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Offline SpaceGhost

  • Posts: 90
  • Location: SoCal

The thin latex blanket does make for a crisper feel, but a Model M will never be even remotely as crisp as an F.

I would not use the word "ping" for a Model M in the same way that I would for a Model F, since there are very few of the higher overtones in comparison. The sound of the M is deadened somewhat, but not in the satisfying way the way that it is for the F, since the M is rather dead already.


Fohat, your comments remind me of one of my earliest experiences with the Model M. It was back in the late 80's, when the Model M had already replaced the Model F, but Model F's were still available at many surplus electronics dealers. I saw some of them at one such dealer, but passed on the opportunity and opted for an "up-to-date" Model M instead.

My initial reaction to the Model M was much as you describe -- it seemed a bit "deadened" and "plastic-y" by comparison to my memory of the Model F's I had recently seen at the surplus dealer. There was just some elusive, "more mechanical" quality about the F's keystrokes that seemed to be muted in the M. Maybe it was the significant differences in not only the amount of ping, but also the harmonic structure (as you pointed out). The F "sings" when you type on it rapidly, more so than an M.

Furthermore, the "click" on the "F" has a bit more "whack" to it -- probably (as someone else has pointed out) due to the larger and more massive "flipper" in the F smacking down on the hard surface of its PCB; compared to the much smaller and less massive "hammers" (pivot plates) of the M striking the soft rubber blanket in the slightly-compressible "strike zones" of the mylar membrane sandwich of the M, somewhat muting the spring pinging and the buckling click and minus the "whack" component of the F's actuation point.

BTW, can someone confirm that the Model F's flippers actually do make physical contact with the PCB? I'm assuming they do, but I don't know this for certain.
Wouldn't they have to make contact to complete the circuit? Or do I misunderstand how the Model F works?

No contact is necessary in theory -- but may be incidental in the F -- because the F works by sensing the capacitance change between the pads on the PCB. Very close proximity is required, but actual contact may not be. I guess it depends on the threshold sensitivity of the particular scheme.
« Last Edit: Sun, 12 April 2015, 16:29:10 by SpaceGhost »

Offline njbair

  • Posts: 2825
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    • nickbair.net

The thin latex blanket does make for a crisper feel, but a Model M will never be even remotely as crisp as an F.

I would not use the word "ping" for a Model M in the same way that I would for a Model F, since there are very few of the higher overtones in comparison. The sound of the M is deadened somewhat, but not in the satisfying way the way that it is for the F, since the M is rather dead already.


Fohat, your comments remind me of one of my earliest experiences with the Model M. It was back in the late 80's, when the Model M had already replaced the Model F, but Model F's were still available at many surplus electronics dealers. I saw some of them at one such dealer, but passed on the opportunity and opted for an "up-to-date" Model M instead.

My initial reaction to the Model M was much as you describe -- it seemed a bit "deadened" and "plastic-y" by comparison to my memory of the Model F's I had recently seen at the surplus dealer. There was just some elusive, "more mechanical" quality about the F's keystrokes that seemed to be muted in the M. Maybe it was the significant differences in not only the amount of ping, but also the harmonic structure (as you pointed out). The F "sings" when you type on it rapidly, more so than an M.

Furthermore, the "click" on the "F" has a bit more "whack" to it -- probably (as someone else has pointed out) due to the larger and more massive "flipper" in the F smacking down on the hard surface of its PCB; compared to the much smaller and less massive "hammers" (pivot plates) of the M striking the soft rubber blanket in the slightly-compressible "strike zones" of the mylar membrane sandwich of the M, somewhat muting the spring pinging and the buckling click and minus the "whack" component of the F's actuation point.

BTW, can someone confirm that the Model F's flippers actually do make physical contact with the PCB? I'm assuming they do, but I don't know this for certain.
Wouldn't they have to make contact to complete the circuit? Or do I misunderstand how the Model F works?

No contact is necessary in theory -- but may be incidental in the F -- because the F works by sensing the capacitance change in the pads on the PCB. Proximity is required, but actual contact may not be. I guess it depends on the threshold sensitivity of the particular scheme.
I just read all about it on Deskthority and it looks like they happen to bottom out.

However, that same page also says the crisper click of a Model F had more to do with generally superior construction techniques versus later keyboards than any inherent mechanical difference between capacitive and membtane-style buckling springs.

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Offline fohat.digs

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My perpetual argument is that the extraordinary sound and feel of the Model F is due to the multiple rigid plates bent and pressed tightly together generating tension and compression stresses on each other.

I conceptualize that sandwich of plates as something resembling the sounding board of a piano.

Personally, I do not think that the springs, pivot plates, or contact/switching methodology have much to do with it.
Trump gave some private advice to a friend who had acknowledged some bad behavior toward women. "Real power is fear. It's all about strength. Never show weakness. You've always got to be strong. Don't be bullied. There is no choice.
"You've got to deny, deny, deny, and push back on these women," he said. "If you admit to anything and any culpability, then you're dead. That was a big mistake that you made. You didn't come out guns blazing and just challenge them. You showed weakness. You've got to be strong. You've got to be aggressive. You've got to push back hard. You've got to deny anything that's said about you. Never admit."

Offline njbair

  • Posts: 2825
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    • nickbair.net
My perpetual argument is that the extraordinary sound and feel of the Model F is due to the multiple rigid plates bent and pressed tightly together generating tension and compression stresses on each other.

I conceptualize that sandwich of plates as something resembling the sounding board of a piano.

Personally, I do not think that the springs, pivot plates, or contact/switching methodology have much to do with it.
This makes perfect sense. The whole board on a Model F has resonance just like an instrument. However, the Model M barrel plate assembly is very rigid, especially with a bolt mod, but it's simply resting in between some plastic clips within the case. The sound mostly dies before it even leaves the casing.

I wonder if somehow fastening the barrel plate to the casing would improve resonance.

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AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline SpaceGhost

  • Posts: 90
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I just read all about it on Deskthority and it looks like they happen to bottom out.

However, that same page also says the crisper click of a Model F had more to do with generally superior construction techniques versus later keyboards than any inherent mechanical difference between capacitive and membtane-style buckling springs.

When you think about the differences between the two at the moment of actuation, it seems apparent (at least IMO) that there is more mechanical damping in the M than in the F at the "business end" of each mechanism. Fohat's theory of the inherent tension and compression of the various parts of the F construction is also very intriguing and probably plays a role in the more "lively" feel of the F.

Some time ago I constructed 2 single-unit keyswitch assemblies. Using a 3D-printed set consisting of F-style flipper and F-style single-barrel housing along with an M-style keystem and cap, I made an F-style actuator but using an M-style spring. I constructed another similar one using an M-style pivot plate and spring along with another F-style single-barrel housing. I glued a small rectangle of plastic cut from an old credit card into each housing bottom under the pivot points (but not covering the actuator portion) to constrain the spring and flipper/pivot plate so the assemblies could be handled freely without coming apart.

Then I placed each on top of a sandwich consisting of an M-style blanket and membrane stack on an M-style steel backplate. I pressed each one firmly down on the blanket and pressed the key. The F-style flipper made an enormous difference. The click was much louder and had a bit of the "whack" component I described above. The assembly with the M-style pivot plate was muted and less crisp, although still reasonably satisfying, at least until the comparison is made.

Offline SpaceGhost

  • Posts: 90
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My perpetual argument is that the extraordinary sound and feel of the Model F is due to the multiple rigid plates bent and pressed tightly together generating tension and compression stresses on each other.

I conceptualize that sandwich of plates as something resembling the sounding board of a piano.

Personally, I do not think that the springs, pivot plates, or contact/switching methodology have much to do with it.

The problem with that theory as I see it, is the foam layer between the top plate and the barrel housings. The foam would damp out a good deal of the resonance within the barrels when the springs buckle and strike those surfaces, as well as damping the acoustic contribution of the top plate. The experiment I described above pretty well proved to me that the F's large flipper striking its PCB makes a big difference in generating the uniquely crisp click of the F, adding to the sound of the spring striking the inside of the barrel.

I should mention that the experiment I did was more dramatic if the membrane layers were removed from the stack and the actuators were striking only the rubber mat on top of the steel, or if only a single layer of mylar was present. The pivot plates in an M strike a soft compressible surface, while the flippers in an F strike a hard surface. That's gotta make a difference.
« Last Edit: Sun, 12 April 2015, 17:24:50 by SpaceGhost »

Offline fohat.digs

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The foam would damp out a good deal of the resonance


There have been lots of experiments with replacement foam, with original foam being mostly crushed dead anyway.

I prefer a fairly thick and dense foam (1/16" = 1.5mm "art foam" for scrap-booking) which necessitates considerable force to reassemble, simultaneously stressing and dampening the overall assembly.

Someone on DT used the plastic wrapping that the keyboard shipped in (great idea, cheap, quick!) and was very pleased with his results.

I still have a piece of thin and soft neoprene that I got from wcass that I will probably use on my next one.

Others, in general, from the impression I have gotten, go for thicker but softer foams.
Trump gave some private advice to a friend who had acknowledged some bad behavior toward women. "Real power is fear. It's all about strength. Never show weakness. You've always got to be strong. Don't be bullied. There is no choice.
"You've got to deny, deny, deny, and push back on these women," he said. "If you admit to anything and any culpability, then you're dead. That was a big mistake that you made. You didn't come out guns blazing and just challenge them. You showed weakness. You've got to be strong. You've got to be aggressive. You've got to push back hard. You've got to deny anything that's said about you. Never admit."

Offline SpaceGhost

  • Posts: 90
  • Location: SoCal

The foam would damp out a good deal of the resonance


There have been lots of experiments with replacement foam, with original foam being mostly crushed dead anyway.

I prefer a fairly thick and dense foam (1/16" = 1.5mm "art foam" for scrap-booking) which necessitates considerable force to reassemble, simultaneously stressing and dampening the overall assembly.

Someone on DT used the plastic wrapping that the keyboard shipped in (great idea, cheap, quick!) and was very pleased with his results.

I still have a piece of thin and soft neoprene that I got from wcass that I will probably use on my next one.

Others, in general, from the impression I have gotten, go for thicker but softer foams.

I can't help but think the combination of tension, compression, and foam would help to keep the sound of the Model F from being too noisy and "uncivilized", while the construction of the Model M makes it all too quiet and "civilized" for Model F fans.

Fohat, is there anything between the PCB and the backplate in a Model F? An electrically-insulating layer of some sort, perhaps?

Offline fohat.digs

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Yes, there is a sheet of clear mylar.

Trump gave some private advice to a friend who had acknowledged some bad behavior toward women. "Real power is fear. It's all about strength. Never show weakness. You've always got to be strong. Don't be bullied. There is no choice.
"You've got to deny, deny, deny, and push back on these women," he said. "If you admit to anything and any culpability, then you're dead. That was a big mistake that you made. You didn't come out guns blazing and just challenge them. You showed weakness. You've got to be strong. You've got to be aggressive. You've got to push back hard. You've got to deny anything that's said about you. Never admit."

Offline SpaceGhost

  • Posts: 90
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Yes, there is a sheet of clear mylar.

Thanks, I thought there would be something like that. Can you see any physical evidence of wear and tear, abrasion, or chipping of the soldermask on the topside capsense pads on heavily-used Model F's? There's no protective mylar or other material (other than screened-on soldermask) on the top of the PCB is there?

Offline SpaceGhost

  • Posts: 90
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I definitely don't want to kill the (already dampened) crispness of the Model M's buckling springs, which is why I'm going to try the third "secret" item I mentioned above.


Have you (or anyone else reading this) ever tried thin lengths (perhaps cylindrical in shape if possible) of very soft foam material? If soft, round foam-gasket material could be obtained in the appropriate diameter, that might work also...

Offline njbair

  • Posts: 2825
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    • nickbair.net

I definitely don't want to kill the (already dampened) crispness of the Model M's buckling springs, which is why I'm going to try the third "secret" item I mentioned above.


Have you (or anyone else reading this) ever tried thin lengths (perhaps cylindrical in shape if possible) of very soft foam material? If soft, round foam-gasket material could be obtained in the appropriate diameter, that might work also...
This is so close to my idea I'm just going to squawk now. In going to try strips of #16 rubber bands. They are .0625" wide so they should fit inside the springs just fine.

My thinking is that they will be just rigid enough to kill the reverberation of the springs without muffling the sound.

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AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline SpaceGhost

  • Posts: 90
  • Location: SoCal

I definitely don't want to kill the (already dampened) crispness of the Model M's buckling springs, which is why I'm going to try the third "secret" item I mentioned above.


Have you (or anyone else reading this) ever tried thin lengths (perhaps cylindrical in shape if possible) of very soft foam material? If soft, round foam-gasket material could be obtained in the appropriate diameter, that might work also...

This is so close to my idea I'm just going to squawk now. In going to try strips of #16 rubber bands. They are .0625" wide so they should fit inside the springs just fine.

My thinking is that they will be just rigid enough to kill the reverberation of the springs without muffling the sound.

Rubber bands, huh? Oh, snap!

Offline fohat.digs

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I never expect rubber bands to age well.
Trump gave some private advice to a friend who had acknowledged some bad behavior toward women. "Real power is fear. It's all about strength. Never show weakness. You've always got to be strong. Don't be bullied. There is no choice.
"You've got to deny, deny, deny, and push back on these women," he said. "If you admit to anything and any culpability, then you're dead. That was a big mistake that you made. You didn't come out guns blazing and just challenge them. You showed weakness. You've got to be strong. You've got to be aggressive. You've got to push back hard. You've got to deny anything that's said about you. Never admit."

Offline SpaceGhost

  • Posts: 90
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I never expect rubber bands to age well.

True, so true.
But perhaps the rubber bands could be used to make a teeny-tiny slingshot with which to subdue one's lesser adversaries in life...such as incessantly-screaming tots and nuisance-barking small dogs... ;)

Offline njbair

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    • nickbair.net
I never expect rubber bands to age well.
I didn't think of that. Trying to pry nasty old brittle rubber bands out of skinny springs.

Well, I'll still try it. If it achieves a good sound & feel I can start looking for other similar materials with better durability. And if not, that's the end of it.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
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AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline njbair

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OK, to address the issue of rubber bands potentially deteriorating over time, I've ordered some silicone bands which are used for making bracelets and stuff. Silicone is much more durable than natural rubber and not susceptible to oxidation. We'll see how this goes.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
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AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline dorkvader

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For those of you who have used the Unicomp white latex blanket to replace the original IBM blanket, I have a question:
Does the Unicomp blanket have any effect on the amount of spring pinging compared to the original IBM blanket? I like the idea of increasing the crispness of the clicks, but am not fond of pinging.
an excellent question. i have both types on hand and will compare ping, though ping isn't too noticeable on a model m already

Yes, there is a sheet of clear mylar.

Thanks, I thought there would be something like that. Can you see any physical evidence of wear and tear, abrasion, or chipping of the soldermask on the topside capsense pads on heavily-used Model F's? There's no protective mylar or other material (other than screened-on soldermask) on the top of the PCB is there?
sethstorm had to repair a model f, but i don't think it was caused by flip wear.

that said, lets keep this on topic. this is a topic about bolt mods. the 'new topic" button exists for a reason.

On topic, I do have the picts for the second half on my flickr and just need to add and caption them.
« Last Edit: Fri, 17 April 2015, 22:42:50 by dorkvader »

Offline njbair

  • Posts: 2825
  • Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Hey guys, I just posted a write-up of my SSK "rubber-band mod" here in the Making Stuff Together forum: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71208.0

Let me know if there's anything else you'd like to know!

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline Skechup

  • Posts: 32
  • Location: London, United Kingdom
Thanks for the tips! This should make my job easier when I get my Model M!

Offline XMIT

  • formerly jsoltren
  • Posts: 415
  • Location: Austin, TX area
Thanks for doing this. I need to work on a guide as well. I follow a somewhat modified procedure:

- use a chisel for removing rivets. Way faster than a knife.
- use two one foot long sections of 2x4 to hold the barrel plate. I stack nickels on the edge of the 2x4s and tape them down to create a high point to support the natural curvature of the barrel plate if needed.
- use a dremel with a sanding tool to file down the rivet stubs.
- use a slightly smaller drill bit, in order to ...
- use tiny brass wood screws and washers to screw in from the back. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67263.msg1631718#msg1631718 . (Thanks ezrahilyer.)
- use 3M DP460 epoxy to repair any cracks in first and second generation Model M barrel plates. For this supporting the curvature of the barrel plate is really important to get the epoxy to dry with the plate in the correct orientation. (I repaired an SSK this way.)

I wonder how well original IBM SDL cables work with USB signals. I've considered putting a Soarer's Converter inside the case, putting a USB head on the end of an original SDL cable and just using it as a USB cable. That, or some variation on this theme. I like the weight, color, and coiling of the original cables.

Offline Muffin860

  • Posts: 58
Thanks for doing this. I need to work on a guide as well. I follow a somewhat modified procedure:

- use a chisel for removing rivets. Way faster than a knife.
- use two one foot long sections of 2x4 to hold the barrel plate. I stack nickels on the edge of the 2x4s and tape them down to create a high point to support the natural curvature of the barrel plate if needed.
- use a dremel with a sanding tool to file down the rivet stubs.
- use a slightly smaller drill bit, in order to ...
- use tiny brass wood screws and washers to screw in from the back. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67263.msg1631718#msg1631718 . (Thanks ezrahilyer.)
- use 3M DP460 epoxy to repair any cracks in first and second generation Model M barrel plates. For this supporting the curvature of the barrel plate is really important to get the epoxy to dry with the plate in the correct orientation. (I repaired an SSK this way.)

I wonder how well original IBM SDL cables work with USB signals. I've considered putting a Soarer's Converter inside the case, putting a USB head on the end of an original SDL cable and just using it as a USB cable. That, or some variation on this theme. I like the weight, color, and coiling of the original cables.
It shouldn't matter if you are using the original cable, wires from the 80s don't know nor care if the signal they carry is usb or ps/2
IBM Model M

Offline fohat.digs

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Having done quite a few of these myself, I feel like I need to comment on some of these:


- use a chisel for removing rivets. Way faster than a knife.
   *   * I use a chisel tip in my Xacto knife. Much cleaner and thinner than you can ever sharpen a "real" chisel

- use two one foot long sections of 2x4 to hold the barrel plate. I stack nickels on the edge of the 2x4s and tape them down to create a high point to support the natural curvature of the barrel plate if needed.
   *   * The nickels are a good idea. I built a frame that that does not slide apart or let go.

- use a dremel with a sanding tool to file down the rivet stubs.
   *   * Arrggh! Use a fresh chisel tip in the Xacto to slice the tops as tall and flat as possible. I do not have any sandpaper or the like in my kit.
   *   * I use my tiniest Dremel spherical burr to make a divot for my drill bit to keep it from "walking"


- use a slightly smaller drill bit, in order to ...
- use tiny brass wood screws and washers to screw in from the back.
- use 3M DP460 epoxy to repair any cracks in first and second generation Model M barrel plates. For this supporting the curvature of the barrel plate is really important to get the epoxy to dry with the plate in the correct orientation.
   *   * Old-fashioned model cement (aka airplane glue) works great for this, but get the harmful kind that you aren't supposed to sniff!


Trump gave some private advice to a friend who had acknowledged some bad behavior toward women. "Real power is fear. It's all about strength. Never show weakness. You've always got to be strong. Don't be bullied. There is no choice.
"You've got to deny, deny, deny, and push back on these women," he said. "If you admit to anything and any culpability, then you're dead. That was a big mistake that you made. You didn't come out guns blazing and just challenge them. You showed weakness. You've got to be strong. You've got to be aggressive. You've got to push back hard. You've got to deny anything that's said about you. Never admit."

Offline ☠☢☣ DeadlyRadioactvBiohaz

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    • Personal hodge-podge; but with keys to attaining anything imaginable at /aquakeys/toltec [UN and PW: toltec3]
Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #72 on: Tue, 08 September 2015, 21:54:10 »

Tools:
5.5mm or 5/32" thinwall nut driver.

Error correction: Should be...

5.5mm or 7/32" thinwall nut driver.
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Offline infiniti

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Re: IBM nut and bolt mod tips & tricks: photoessay (warning 45+ huge pictures)
« Reply #73 on: Wed, 09 September 2015, 00:59:16 »

Tools:
5.5mm or 5/32" thinwall nut driver.

Error correction: Should be...

5.5mm or 7/32" thinwall nut driver.

Thanks for pointing that out! ;) I've edited the OP for dorkvader.