Author Topic: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!  (Read 83205 times)

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Offline FoC_Tow

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #250 on: Wed, 04 March 2015, 23:25:25 »
There is very different types of stainless steal like v2a or v4a for example and infect some of them can show some corrosion pretty fast.

There is types of stainless steal which just from the moisture exposed from touching it would show corrosion on the surface within a few days actually...

It's true (I think actually when corroding) stainless steal will from its own chromium layer and therefore prevent the internal structure from corroding, which is why I stated 'rust on the surface'.
Stainless steal parts wont corrode all the way thru like metal but depending on the grade they may pick up corrosion showing on the surface pretty quick.

Regarding Kitchen Food grade Materials i would guess its very high grade stainless steal, and then again most of it is probably chromed or plated with another kind of finish to protected if its not.

I worked in a metal machining shop for a while, and while I'n not an expert I have definitely seen stainless steal catch surface rust.

If stainless steal couldn't corrode in any way riddle me why there is guides on removing rust from stainless steal?
Or pictures of stainless steal parts with surface rust one them? xD

From Wikipedia:
More
Stainless steels contain sufficient chromium to form a passive film of chromium oxide, which prevents further surface corrosion by blocking oxygen diffusion to the steel surface and blocks corrosion from spreading into the metal's internal structure, and, due to the similar size of the steel and oxide ions, they bond very strongly and remain attached to the surface.


It's quite a common misconception that stainless steal will never catch any rust what so ever.
« Last Edit: Wed, 04 March 2015, 23:32:37 by FoC_Tow »

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #251 on: Thu, 05 March 2015, 01:50:17 »
Also I don't really like the looks of the blank plate and think that changing or refinishing it could also be quite a big improvement for the appearance.
First, it’s possible to get a flat plate instead of bent metal plate/case, if you want to put it in a milled wood/metal/plastic or injection molded plastic case.

Second, the look is not something everyone likes. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. There are many other possible options for keyboards that you might prefer.

Offline FoC_Tow

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #252 on: Thu, 05 March 2015, 02:47:31 »
Also I don't really like the looks of the blank plate and think that changing or refinishing it could also be quite a big improvement for the appearance.
First, it’s possible to get a flat plate instead of bent metal plate/case, if you want to put it in a milled wood/metal/plastic or injection molded plastic case.

Second, the look is not something everyone likes. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. There are many other possible options for keyboards that you might prefer.

I was actually talking about the flat plate all the time, since a GON universal 60% plate would obviously not be a replacement for the bent plate.
But even low profile 60% cases would show enough of the plate, that I would just personally want it to match with the style of my board, and was generally wondering about ways to refinish it.

I'm really not sure why people seem so offended by me wanting to change the finish/color tbh?

The main reason I would personally get the infinity is programability combined with the split backspace layout which pretty much limits the selection in 60% boards quite a bit.
And as long as it's possible to modify it it doesn't seem like a very of putting reason not to get an infinity...


I personally don't mind the bent plate too much as I think its cool. It kind of cool how you can show anyone who walks by that it is a DIY keyboard and what goes into it. The sound and feel is not bad while typing on it, and I am not too worried about the durability in the long run.

Don't get me wrong pls I actually really like the looks of the bent plate and the open looks on the components.

I would personally just go for a closed case since I mainly want a small programmable 60% to carry around with me.
And if I would for example go for a white case, I would just prefer the plate to be white as well... =)

The stainless steal looks really good, but it may not look good side by side with every material I guess.
On the bent plate style infinity or for example the JD40 the blank metal actually looks awesome tho!
« Last Edit: Thu, 05 March 2015, 02:49:47 by FoC_Tow »

Offline OverKill

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #253 on: Thu, 05 March 2015, 05:56:58 »
I'll have to double check, but I am fairly certain we used 304 stainless for the plates. If you have a concern about corrosion you should have the plates plated yourself. The chances of surface rust showing up on stainless in normal conditions is pretty slim. Some people have more acid in their hands and thus when they touch any metal it starts to corrode. Also depending on the environment it could possibly corrode. Generally speaking unless you live in the amazon or some place with extreme humidity all the time it will be just fine. As for coatings you feel that is necessary - zinc plating, black oxide, powder coat are things you can coat it with.

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #254 on: Thu, 05 March 2015, 14:24:52 »
I guess I'm going to buy a single infinity and see how it goes, I guess we can always replace the plate when it corrodes

I have a lot of bad experiences modifying/painting stuff, so I would rather let it corrode (the plate gets a lot of side-action, so side-chipping is very likely with paints etc, the switches lean to the plate although they are not moving, there is still stress)

I'm also guessing it's unlikely that we can convince the producers to produce coated/alternative plates at this point in time, I'm guessing it might happen for the future iteration

ideus, yes they corrode in a very short amount of time if you're not using them actively, keyboard plates absorb a lot of humidity from hands, yet they never get rubbed/cleaned/touched, so it's very likely they will corrode at one point, my previous laptop had a stainless steel keyboard top plate, I wasn't using the keyboard of the laptop, the room isn't humid, there were no liquids near the plate, yet it corroded in 2 years, small corrosion spots start forming after a while, they grow in time

On the other hand, this will be my 3rd keyboard in ~1-2 months, so with this pace, I shouldn't worry about longevity much :)
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #255 on: Thu, 05 March 2015, 14:51:32 »
ideus, yes they corrode in a very short amount of time if you're not using them actively, keyboard plates absorb a lot of humidity from hands, yet they never get rubbed/cleaned/touched, so it's very likely they will corrode at one point, my previous laptop had a stainless steel keyboard top plate, I wasn't using the keyboard of the laptop, the room isn't humid, there were no liquids near the plate, yet it corroded in 2 years, small corrosion spots start forming after a while, they grow in time

I have many keyboard plates made of 304 stainless, and I have yet to have one corrode at all. Of course, I live in a relatively dry climate, but I still can't imagine one of these corroding.

I have also successfully painted several plates using regular spray paint. I usually use matte or semi gloss paint, as I don't like a high gloss on my keyboard plates.
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Offline ideus

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #256 on: Thu, 05 March 2015, 14:53:42 »
I guess I'm going to buy a single infinity and see how it goes, I guess we can always replace the plate when it corrodes

I have a lot of bad experiences modifying/painting stuff, so I would rather let it corrode (the plate gets a lot of side-action, so side-chipping is very likely with paints etc, the switches lean to the plate although they are not moving, there is still stress)

I'm also guessing it's unlikely that we can convince the producers to produce coated/alternative plates at this point in time, I'm guessing it might happen for the future iteration

ideus, yes they corrode in a very short amount of time if you're not using them actively, keyboard plates absorb a lot of humidity from hands, yet they never get rubbed/cleaned/touched, so it's very likely they will corrode at one point, my previous laptop had a stainless steel keyboard top plate, I wasn't using the keyboard of the laptop, the room isn't humid, there were no liquids near the plate, yet it corroded in 2 years, small corrosion spots start forming after a while, they grow in time

On the other hand, this will be my 3rd keyboard in ~1-2 months, so with this pace, I shouldn't worry about longevity much :)


Where do you live? A high humidity, salty air, as some cities near the coasts have, may produce that problem. Some year ago working at the Ford's Materials Lab we use a salt spray test to evaluate automotive paints, and enamels, in accordance with ASTM B117 -that simulates a tropical environment in an accelerated decay rate of coatings-, that is also use for aluminum and stainless steels. And yes, you can see even aluminum getting some corrosion signs after some hours in the chamber. But, I would be surprise these plates get as corroded as you imply in you comment under "normal" indoor conditions.


I just post with the intention to inform, and give some balance to the comment you made that is a bit in the extreme side. I do not intend to argue with you, though. You may inform us after some time with the Infinity at your place if it gets corroded, as soon as you expect it would.

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #257 on: Thu, 05 March 2015, 15:06:00 »
I'm not arguing either :) I also don't hope it corrodes, thanks for the insight too, it's pretty interesting

Currently when I open the window, the humidity drops to %17, even in the summer, it's <50%, so I'm far from humid lands, the laptop in question was also heating excessively, so likely the humidity was close to 0% on it

I also enjoy spray painting stuff, yet once/if it chips, the whole project becomes a nightmare
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Offline ideus

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #258 on: Thu, 05 March 2015, 15:09:15 »
Stainless steel surface is not the best anchor substrate for any paint. Most paints will peel off, but maybe powder-coating, that should be dry in an oven at high temperatures that cannot be reproduced at home, Just a heads up.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #259 on: Thu, 05 March 2015, 15:16:02 »
Stainless steel surface is not the best anchor substrate for any paint. Most paints will peel off, but maybe powder-coating, that should be dry in an oven at high temperatures that cannot be reproduced at home, Just a heads up.

I sand mine with 80-grit sandpaper to prep for painting. Then I apply 3 thin coats of spray paint, allowing it to dry between coats, and let cure 48 hours before installing.
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Offline KHAANNN

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #260 on: Thu, 05 March 2015, 15:23:48 »
Stainless steel surface is not the best anchor substrate for any paint. Most paints will peel off, but maybe powder-coating, that should be dry in an oven at high temperatures that cannot be reproduced at home, Just a heads up.

I sand mine with 80-grit sandpaper to prep for painting. Then I apply 3 thin coats of spray paint, allowing it to dry between coats, and let cure 48 hours before installing.
That is a great method, you got me back to 2 infinity's

I also have a gold spray paint that I've been itching to use, might go crazy on one of the plates
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Offline ideus

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #261 on: Thu, 05 March 2015, 15:25:05 »
Stainless steel surface is not the best anchor substrate for any paint. Most paints will peel off, but maybe powder-coating, that should be dry in an oven at high temperatures that cannot be reproduced at home, Just a heads up.

I sand mine with 80-grit sandpaper to prep for painting. Then I apply 3 thin coats of spray paint, allowing it to dry between coats, and let cure 48 hours before installing.


Great idea: Sanding increases the anchor points for the painting. I should fix my thinking from repetitive manufacturing to handmade craftsmanship. :)) What is the base material of the paint you used? Some pictures?

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #262 on: Thu, 05 March 2015, 15:30:07 »
Stainless steel surface is not the best anchor substrate for any paint. Most paints will peel off, but maybe powder-coating, that should be dry in an oven at high temperatures that cannot be reproduced at home, Just a heads up.

I sand mine with 80-grit sandpaper to prep for painting. Then I apply 3 thin coats of spray paint, allowing it to dry between coats, and let cure 48 hours before installing.


Great idea: Sanding increases the anchor points for the painting. I should fix my thinking from repetitive manufacturing to handmade craftsmanship. :)) What is the base material of the paint you used? Some pictures?

I typically use Krylon brand spray paint.

Here is a stainless Poker plate I painted purple for dustinhxc:


[Image credit: duxtinhxc]
« Last Edit: Fri, 06 March 2015, 13:42:29 by jdcarpe »
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Offline FoC_Tow

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #263 on: Thu, 05 March 2015, 18:09:51 »
THX a lot again to everyone for clearing all this up! =)

I didn't intend to start such a big discussion, but I think It's pretty awesome we got everything clarified, so thx again to everyone supplying all the infos on this!  :thumb:


Not being an expert i can't tell the exact properties of stainless 304, but based on the statement of Overkill and JDs experience I very much believe now that it's high grade enough
to be no issue whatsoever in most situations, so sorry for anyone who might be concerned now because you most likely won't have to worry! =)

More
I have many keyboard plates made of 304 stainless, and I have yet to have one corrode at all. Of course, I live in a relatively dry climate, but I still can't imagine one of these corroding.


It's was just the fact that I have seen it at least once (on probably not the highest grade stainless steal) as well
and it's most likely to happen on areas which don't get any physical wear, that would keep 'polishing' the surface constantly like KHAANNN mentioned.

More
...keyboard plates absorb a lot of humidity from hands, yet they never get rubbed/cleaned/touched, so its very likely they will corrode at one point, my previous laptop had a stainless steel keyboard top plate, I wasn't using the keyboard of the laptop, the room isn't humid, there were no liquids near the plate, yet it corroded in 2 years, small corrosion spots start forming after a while, they grow in time


On the other hand it's still great to know it's possible to diy paint the plate for people who just want to modify it for the looks,
which should also be pretty durable as well since the plate doesn't get any physical wear usually.

So big thx to JD for the tips and experience on this! =)
Really love the poker plate btw! <3

More
I sand mine with 80-grit sandpaper to prep for painting. Then I apply 3 thin coats of spray paint, allowing it to dry between coats, and let cure 48 hours before installing.

I typically use Kryton brand spray paint.

Here is a stainless Poker plate I painted purple for dustinhxc:

Show Image

[Image credit: duxtinhxc]


Also finally I want to mention that if anyone ever where to experience slide surface corrosion on the stainless steal plate its usually pretty easy to remove as it will only affect the surface.
Usually slight sanding with even fine grid sandpaper or some sort of soft metal brush/sponge should be enough to remove corrosion from the surface and make it shiny again.
The only issue is that you might have to remove the plate as it maybe hard to reach all corners with switches mounted but there is no reason to ever replace it.

More
I guess I'm going to buy a single infinity and see how it goes, I guess we can always replace the plate when it corrodes


If you decide to paint it and the paint really wears it would pretty much be the same process of desoldering switches, sanding and repainting it.
I really doubt a well done paint job will come of that easy tho if you prepare the surface well like JD mentioned.

So as mentioned, definitely roughen up the metal, to increase the surface area and give the spray paint more 'bite'.
If possible also use something like aceton or cleaning alcohol to remove any grease that might be left from fingerprints for example and could prevent paint from sticking.

Then spray in thin layers (don't worry about 100% coverage on the first layer) because to worst that can happen is paint to 'run' or drop.
Wait for the appropriate amount of time in between layers (usually mentioned on the paint) and even if it mentions dry after 24h, leave it dry for 48h min before assembling.
(even tho the paint may feel dry on the surface and will be safe to touch it will still be less resistant to scratches that might happen during assembly.)

Offline OverKill

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #264 on: Thu, 05 March 2015, 23:30:22 »
THX a lot again to everyone for clearing all this up! =)

I didn't intend to start such a big discussion, but I think It's pretty awesome we got everything clarified, so thx again to everyone supplying all the infos on this!  :thumb:


Not being an expert i can't tell the exact properties of stainless 304, but based on the statement of Overkill and JDs experience I very much believe now that it's high grade enough
to be no issue whatsoever in most situations, so sorry for anyone who might be concerned now because you most likely won't have to worry! =)

More
I have many keyboard plates made of 304 stainless, and I have yet to have one corrode at all. Of course, I live in a relatively dry climate, but I still can't imagine one of these corroding.


It's was just the fact that I have seen it at least once (on probably not the highest grade stainless steal) as well
and it's most likely to happen on areas which don't get any physical wear, that would keep 'polishing' the surface constantly like KHAANNN mentioned.

More
...keyboard plates absorb a lot of humidity from hands, yet they never get rubbed/cleaned/touched, so its very likely they will corrode at one point, my previous laptop had a stainless steel keyboard top plate, I wasn't using the keyboard of the laptop, the room isn't humid, there were no liquids near the plate, yet it corroded in 2 years, small corrosion spots start forming after a while, they grow in time


On the other hand it's still great to know it's possible to diy paint the plate for people who just want to modify it for the looks,
which should also be pretty durable as well since the plate doesn't get any physical wear usually.

So big thx to JD for the tips and experience on this! =)
Really love the poker plate btw! <3

More
I sand mine with 80-grit sandpaper to prep for painting. Then I apply 3 thin coats of spray paint, allowing it to dry between coats, and let cure 48 hours before installing.

I typically use Kryton brand spray paint.

Here is a stainless Poker plate I painted purple for dustinhxc:

Show Image

[Image credit: duxtinhxc]


Also finally I want to mention that if anyone ever where to experience slide surface corrosion on the stainless steal plate its usually pretty easy to remove as it will only affect the surface.
Usually slight sanding with even fine grid sandpaper or some sort of soft metal brush/sponge should be enough to remove corrosion from the surface and make it shiny again.
The only issue is that you might have to remove the plate as it maybe hard to reach all corners with switches mounted but there is no reason to ever replace it.

More
I guess I'm going to buy a single infinity and see how it goes, I guess we can always replace the plate when it corrodes


If you decide to paint it and the paint really wears it would pretty much be the same process of desoldering switches, sanding and repainting it.
I really doubt a well done paint job will come of that easy tho if you prepare the surface well like JD mentioned.

So as mentioned, definitely roughen up the metal, to increase the surface area and give the spray paint more 'bite'.
If possible also use something like aceton or cleaning alcohol to remove any grease that might be left from fingerprints for example and could prevent paint from sticking.

Then spray in thin layers (don't worry about 100% coverage on the first layer) because to worst that can happen is paint to 'run' or drop.
Wait for the appropriate amount of time in between layers (usually mentioned on the paint) and even if it mentions dry after 24h, leave it dry for 48h min before assembling.
(even tho the paint may feel dry on the surface and will be safe to touch it will still be less resistant to scratches that might happen during assembly.)

FYI the plates are sanded after they are cut so you probably don't need to do that just wash and dry it really well with soap and water to get any excess oil off. If you want to sand it some more feel free :)

Offline mashby

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #265 on: Fri, 06 March 2015, 08:39:42 »
I typically use Kryton brand spray paint.

Here is a stainless Poker plate I painted purple for dustinhxc:

Show Image

[Image credit: duxtinhxc]

You have inspired me sir! Hadn't considered painting the case.

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #266 on: Fri, 06 March 2015, 12:41:48 »
You have inspired me too, and that purple just goes extremely well with that keyboard

This is probably a bigger/real issue with this keyboard: https://github.com/kiibohd/controller/commit/a9c5898ba5fcb06f11ff97c4fe1fbafb836ebd87

This and the Mac OSX / sleep issue, but it seems both of the issues will be solved pretty soon, it's also a huge plus that you're not locked in to a simple solution to the debounce issues

I haven't experienced repetitive keypresses with other keyboards, and I sincerely hope I never do, it would probably drive me crazy++
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Offline Smasher816

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #267 on: Fri, 06 March 2015, 16:27:33 »
Fwiw, I have no issue with blue switches in my board.

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #268 on: Fri, 06 March 2015, 17:17:41 »
I was just thinking about that while testing my green switches with the multimeter, probably the hysteresis on blue/green switches prevent this kind of issues to a degree
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Offline daerid

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #269 on: Fri, 06 March 2015, 23:03:47 »
You have inspired me too, and that purple just goes extremely well with that keyboard

This is probably a bigger/real issue with this keyboard: https://github.com/kiibohd/controller/commit/a9c5898ba5fcb06f11ff97c4fe1fbafb836ebd87

This and the Mac OSX / sleep issue, but it seems both of the issues will be solved pretty soon, it's also a huge plus that you're not locked in to a simple solution to the debounce issues

I haven't experienced repetitive keypresses with other keyboards, and I sincerely hope I never do, it would probably drive me crazy++

Yeah, TBH the firmware is a bit rougher than the ergodox or tmk firmwares, but it's ambitious. Unfortunately the OSX sleep issue make the board feel broken, as my primary use case for it is sitting on top of my MBP's keyboard (where the bent metal plate actually fits perfectly and kinda "locks in" between the F-keys row and the number row).

Offline Bludude4

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #270 on: Sat, 07 March 2015, 00:09:32 »
I crossed my fingers and thought, "Hall Effect", maybe?

HAATA CAN YOU PLEASE DESIGN AND DISTRIBUTE A HALL EFFECT BOARD PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
All hail Hall Effect keyboards!
I'm a QFR Blues noob.
WASD keycaps are terrible.

Offline HaaTa

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #271 on: Sat, 07 March 2015, 00:23:58 »
MAYBE SOME DAY :D

I have a cool design in mind, but the problem really is actually getting the switches at this point. It really depends on how much time I need to spend making Cherry keyboards vs. designing completely new things.
Kiibohd

ALWAYS looking for cool and interesting switches
I take requests for making keyboard converters (i.e. *old keyboard* to USB).

Offline Bludude4

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #272 on: Sat, 07 March 2015, 00:38:15 »
MAYBE SOME DAY :D

I have a cool design in mind, but the problem really is actually getting the switches at this point. It really depends on how much time I need to spend making Cherry keyboards vs. designing completely new things.

Crowd fund it!
All hail Hall Effect keyboards!
I'm a QFR Blues noob.
WASD keycaps are terrible.

Offline HaaTa

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #273 on: Sat, 07 March 2015, 00:43:40 »
Funny thing, my problems aren't really funds. It's mostly how much time I can spend doing it.
My real job is too fun to quit and do keyboards full time (and pays better too).

At this point, I really just need coding help (C coders, preferably embedded; though there is some Python stuff to do). The less time I have to spend fixing debounce issues (and tracking down Mac OSX sleep quirks), the more time I can spend on making entirely new keyboards.
Kiibohd

ALWAYS looking for cool and interesting switches
I take requests for making keyboard converters (i.e. *old keyboard* to USB).

Offline HaaTa

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #274 on: Sat, 07 March 2015, 03:15:58 »
Also, as of a little while ago, Mac OSX freezing on wake issue has been fixed.
Kiibohd

ALWAYS looking for cool and interesting switches
I take requests for making keyboard converters (i.e. *old keyboard* to USB).

Offline Bludude4

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #275 on: Sat, 07 March 2015, 10:43:47 »
Funny thing, my problems aren't really funds. It's mostly how much time I can spend doing it.
My real job is too fun to quit and do keyboards full time (and pays better too).

At this point, I really just need coding help (C coders, preferably embedded; though there is some Python stuff to do). The less time I have to spend fixing debounce issues (and tracking down Mac OSX sleep quirks), the more time I can spend on making entirely new keyboards.

So making Hall Effect boards is something you legitimately want to do? (Just confirming, I wouldn't really be surprised if you actually wanted to.)
All hail Hall Effect keyboards!
I'm a QFR Blues noob.
WASD keycaps are terrible.

Offline KHAANNN

  • Posts: 1648
Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #276 on: Sat, 07 March 2015, 14:30:48 »
Funny thing, my problems aren't really funds. It's mostly how much time I can spend doing it.
My real job is too fun to quit and do keyboards full time (and pays better too).

At this point, I really just need coding help (C coders, preferably embedded; though there is some Python stuff to do). The less time I have to spend fixing debounce issues (and tracking down Mac OSX sleep quirks), the more time I can spend on making entirely new keyboards.

On the bright-side, once you solve these major issues, you will have a solid firmware that you can keep on using, and won't be bothered by these issues as much / concentrate on the keyboards instead

After closing up my aluminium plate keyboard after the switch modifications, I'm pretty excited for the steel plate, that aluminium plate turned out to be the major source of the pings, I should have guessed tho

I should probably buy another DSA Dolch too for the infinity, the "/" key of the numpad set would make a nice "\|" replacement when it's flipped to be "\"
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Offline mashby

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #277 on: Mon, 09 March 2015, 12:34:52 »
After closing up my aluminium plate keyboard after the switch modifications, I'm pretty excited for the steel plate, that aluminium plate turned out to be the major source of the pings, I should have guessed tho

I was really surprised at just how solid the skeleton case is and like it very much.

My daily driver uses a Hammer 60% case and I thought I'd find it to be a huge difference using the Infinity, but it's not. Overall the keyboard is a little bit louder. The Hammer case is more muted because it's not open at the bottom, but the typing feel is very solid.

Offline KHAANNN

  • Posts: 1648
Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #278 on: Tue, 10 March 2015, 10:13:51 »
Still haven't ordered mine(s)

Experiencing an identity crisis, thinking of going back to silenced red's, trying modded clears, giving another chance to green's ...

I guess I should just order at least 2 plates to decide later on, 1 days left
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #279 on: Tue, 10 March 2015, 10:36:57 »
Experiencing an identity crisis, thinking of going back to silenced red's, trying modded clears, giving another chance to green's ...
Matias quiet linear are quieter and smoother than lubed silenced MX red; Matias quiet tactile are more tactile than any spring-swapped MX clear; Matias clicky are more tactile and have a more satisfying click sound than any MX green. ;)

Offline KHAANNN

  • Posts: 1648
Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #280 on: Tue, 10 March 2015, 10:55:33 »
Experiencing an identity crisis, thinking of going back to silenced red's, trying modded clears, giving another chance to green's ...
Matias quiet linear are quieter and smoother than lubed silenced MX red; Matias quiet tactile are more tactile than any spring-swapped MX clear; Matias clicky are more tactile and have a more satisfying click sound than any MX green. ;)
I would love to give each matias a try, however the keycap unavailability is an issue in this case, I don't have the ability to use blank keycaps, I take a glimpse at the keyscheme every now and then

I will consider them too, thanks for the input, you just made my decision harder :)
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #281 on: Tue, 10 March 2015, 19:26:32 »
Sealed the deal with Red's :D

Are the balancers sound-free? (I have the impression that generally the balancer insert to balancer guide/plate holder contact causes the sound, lubing prevents it for a long time)

Would my excessive balancer lubing look bad on the exposed plate? :)
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline njbair

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #282 on: Tue, 10 March 2015, 23:01:07 »
Uugh what have I done? Just joined this drop. Hacker layout, Matias Quiet Pro's with the blank black caps, and the black TEX case. I basically just spent what I would have on a HHKB except I have to assemble it myself. This is the worst hobby ever!!!

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
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My boards:
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AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #283 on: Wed, 11 March 2015, 00:02:46 »
Well the delivery of the new batch is a whooping 2+ months away, but what do you guys think about using a single blue switch for the backspace and a clear for esc?

I'm so excited, I wish it was at least a month away

(I guess I can test the varying switch idea on a normal keyboard too, in the meantime, blue for both the esc and the backspace makes more sense, on a linear keyboard that is)
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline njbair

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #284 on: Wed, 11 March 2015, 08:07:43 »
Well the delivery of the new batch is a whooping 2+ months away, but what do you guys think about using a single blue switch for the backspace and a clear for esc?

I'm so excited, I wish it was at least a month away

(I guess I can test the varying switch idea on a normal keyboard too, in the meantime, blue for both the esc and the backspace makes more sense, on a linear keyboard that is)

If you want a stiffer ESC, black makes more sense for a board full of reds. But why do you want a clicky backspace on an otherwise linear board? Then everyone will know for sure when you made a mistake.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
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AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline ideus

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #285 on: Wed, 11 March 2015, 08:10:05 »
Well the delivery of the new batch is a whooping 2+ months away, but what do you guys think about using a single blue switch for the backspace and a clear for esc?

I'm so excited, I wish it was at least a month away

(I guess I can test the varying switch idea on a normal keyboard too, in the meantime, blue for both the esc and the backspace makes more sense, on a linear keyboard that is)

If you want a stiffer ESC, black makes more sense for a board full of reds. But why do you want a clicky backspace on an otherwise linear board? Then everyone will know for sure when you made a mistake.




Good point. However, I understand part of the logic, modifiers that give you a differentiated audible feedback, make sense.

Offline majache

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #286 on: Wed, 11 March 2015, 09:54:27 »
Funny thing, my problems aren't really funds. It's mostly how much time I can spend doing it.
My real job is too fun to quit and do keyboards full time (and pays better too).

At this point, I really just need coding help (C coders, preferably embedded; though there is some Python stuff to do). The less time I have to spend fixing debounce issues (and tracking down Mac OSX sleep quirks), the more time I can spend on making entirely new keyboards.

Hey C and Python coder here, I'd love to help out :D   I'm a novice coder but I have access to alot of free time at my job where I mostly do C# I ordered the board on massdrop last night and I've been following your controller git, hopefully I'll find something to contribute when I get my hands on it.

CODE Mx Clears 104 | | Infinity KiiBohd Mx Clears 60%

Offline njbair

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #287 on: Wed, 11 March 2015, 11:33:37 »
I would love to give each matias a try, however the keycap unavailability is an issue in this case, I don't have the ability to use blank keycaps, I take a glimpse at the keyscheme every now and then

I will consider them too, thanks for the input, you just made my decision harder :)

I was on the fence about this, too. But here was my reasoning for going with the Matias Quiet Pro switches:
  • Blanks are not an issue for me--I'm an 8-year Dvorak user but I've never swapped the layout. I just touch type over QWERTY legends.
  • Replacement ALPS keycaps aren't impossible to find, and the apparent success of this board is likely going to increase demand--more Matias switches on modders' desks. I believe you'll see a lot more ALPS keycap group buys in the coming months.
  • The Matias switches are probably going to be the less-common option. That means the board will probably fetch more for trade or sale some day, if I were to decide to sell it.
  • I don't need another loud keyboard.
  • I have never tried Matias switches but they seem to be well-liked and I'm genuinely curious about them.

I'm so psyched about this board and I can't wait to build it.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline HaaTa

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #288 on: Wed, 11 March 2015, 11:56:38 »
Hey C and Python coder here, I'd love to help out :D   I'm a novice coder but I have access to alot of free time at my job where I mostly do C# I ordered the board on massdrop last night and I've been following your controller git, hopefully I'll find something to contribute when I get my hands on it.

:D
The best place to reach me is on the #geekhack irc channel.
Kiibohd

ALWAYS looking for cool and interesting switches
I take requests for making keyboard converters (i.e. *old keyboard* to USB).

Offline KHAANNN

  • Posts: 1648
Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #289 on: Wed, 11 March 2015, 15:04:10 »
Tested the idea for a bit on a sample switcher, it's an idea that initially seems cool, it would also aid in adapting to the non-standard backspace/delete, yet it would probably turn irritating in a short amount of time, I've also tested browns side by side, with reds and a single blue, all trampoline modded, all reds / homogeneity seemed like the best option, I might still initially test the idea and re-solder into red's when I got the board tho (blues tend to get irritating compared to the silence of red's, that's why it might get irritating, on the other hand it's a backspace key, maybe it should be a bit irritating :)

Still haven't decided whether I should also give matias's a chance with this batch, I know I will adapt to the blanks in 1-2 days, but I just like printed caps :(

10 hours left
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Offline Flyersfan1

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #290 on: Wed, 11 March 2015, 15:11:54 »
Tested the idea for a bit on a sample switcher, it's an idea that initially seems cool, it would also aid in adapting to the non-standard backspace/delete, yet it would probably turn irritating in a short amount of time, I've also tested browns side by side, with reds and a single blue, all trampoline modded, all reds / homogeneity seemed like the best option, I might still initially test the idea and re-solder into red's when I got the board tho (blues tend to get irritating compared to the silence of red's, that's why it might get irritating, on the other hand it's a backspace key, maybe it should be a bit irritating :)

Still haven't decided whether I should also give matias's a chance with this batch, I know I will adapt to the blanks in 1-2 days, but I just like printed caps :(

10 hours left
Go for it man, might be a little while before it's back again!
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Offline KHAANNN

  • Posts: 1648
Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #291 on: Wed, 11 March 2015, 15:24:30 »
I just learned that SP is going to launch another freely purchasable set like the Dolch, so a secondary MX seems more lucrative right now, like another infinity with Blue's :)

With this hype, I'm probably going to get a second MX infinity, to put those caps on
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline njbair

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #292 on: Wed, 11 March 2015, 15:27:00 »
Tested the idea for a bit on a sample switcher, it's an idea that initially seems cool, it would also aid in adapting to the non-standard backspace/delete, yet it would probably turn irritating in a short amount of time, I've also tested browns side by side, with reds and a single blue, all trampoline modded, all reds / homogeneity seemed like the best option, I might still initially test the idea and re-solder into red's when I got the board tho (blues tend to get irritating compared to the silence of red's, that's why it might get irritating, on the other hand it's a backspace key, maybe it should be a bit irritating :)

Still haven't decided whether I should also give matias's a chance with this batch, I know I will adapt to the blanks in 1-2 days, but I just like printed caps :(

10 hours left

Go for the ALPS. We'll start a club.

I really do think eventually the ALPS keysets will become more commonplace.

Or, buy this board without caps, and buy a stock Mini Quiet Pro for $130 and use those caps. $130 isn't too much more than a lot of custom keycap sets.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
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AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline KHAANNN

  • Posts: 1648
Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #293 on: Wed, 11 March 2015, 17:34:46 »
Those are some nice ideas, but I decided to skip on Matias on this run, this might be a good idea for the future too: http://matias.ca/60/pc/

However, I rejoined for a second set with MX Blues / standard layout, gonna give clicks a second chance, also thinking of going for an Eve/Dolch - Clicky/Silent combo based on mood / future preferences

These all assume that the rightmost 3 modifiers + the middle/small shift keys make up nice arrow keys, if they don't, this whole thing might be a bust for me :)
(My arrow pose will certainly need some flexing)
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline Hypersphere

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #294 on: Wed, 11 March 2015, 18:54:00 »
Tested the idea for a bit on a sample switcher, it's an idea that initially seems cool, it would also aid in adapting to the non-standard backspace/delete, yet it would probably turn irritating in a short amount of time, I've also tested browns side by side, with reds and a single blue, all trampoline modded, all reds / homogeneity seemed like the best option, I might still initially test the idea and re-solder into red's when I got the board tho (blues tend to get irritating compared to the silence of red's, that's why it might get irritating, on the other hand it's a backspace key, maybe it should be a bit irritating :)

Still haven't decided whether I should also give matias's a chance with this batch, I know I will adapt to the blanks in 1-2 days, but I just like printed caps :(

10 hours left


Go for the ALPS. We'll start a club.

I really do think eventually the ALPS keysets will become more commonplace.

Or, buy this board without caps, and buy a stock Mini Quiet Pro for $130 and use those caps. $130 isn't too much more than a lot of custom keycap sets.
Matias switches are among my favorites. I tend to favor the Matias Click over the Matias Quiet. The Click switches give an excellent combination of aural and tactile feedback that synergize to enhance my typing speed and accuracy.

The problem with the keycaps on the Matias keyboards is that they are ABS. I don't mind ABS on modifiers or spacebars, but my alpha keys need PBT. I've opted to harvest alpha PBTs from vintage boards.

Offline njbair

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #295 on: Wed, 11 March 2015, 20:42:54 »
Those are some nice ideas, but I decided to skip on Matias on this run, this might be a good idea for the future too: http://matias.ca/60/pc/

However, I rejoined for a second set with MX Blues / standard layout, gonna give clicks a second chance, also thinking of going for an Eve/Dolch - Clicky/Silent combo based on mood / future preferences

These all assume that the rightmost 3 modifiers + the middle/small shift keys make up nice arrow keys, if they don't, this whole thing might be a bust for me :)
(My arrow pose will certainly need some flexing)

Two boards is probably the best idea. I actually followed suit and just joined for a second one with basically the opposite configuration. So now I'll be getting two boards:
  • Cherry MX Browns in the Standard layout with the bent case (mainstream board)
  • Matias Quiet Pros in the Hacker layout with the TEX blue aluminum case (fancy super-nerd board)
Obviously, blank black keycaps for each board.

The wallet hack is real.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline njbair

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #296 on: Thu, 12 March 2015, 00:03:44 »
Does anyone have any experience with big drops like this one with lots of options? I don't know what kind of operation Massdrop is running, but I can't help but worry that a lot of folks are going to end up with the wrong plates/switches or something like that, just because there are so many different configurations and this has been a relatively popular drop.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline KHAANNN

  • Posts: 1648
Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #297 on: Thu, 12 March 2015, 00:25:27 »
Does anyone have any experience with big drops like this one with lots of options? I don't know what kind of operation Massdrop is running, but I can't help but worry that a lot of folks are going to end up with the wrong plates/switches or something like that, just because there are so many different configurations and this has been a relatively popular drop.

I don't have any experience but as far as I read, they correct the keyboard issues well, yet there are some negative experiences on this drop: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/hardwood-wrist-rests
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline ideus

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #298 on: Thu, 12 March 2015, 14:01:13 »
Does anyone have any experience with big drops like this one with lots of options? I don't know what kind of operation Massdrop is running, but I can't help but worry that a lot of folks are going to end up with the wrong plates/switches or something like that, just because there are so many different configurations and this has been a relatively popular drop.


I joined the first drop of the Infinity, and it went well, but the USB cable that was missing. Other issue is still the configurator software, that has been announced to be upgraded soon.

Offline Flyersfan1

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Re: Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!
« Reply #299 on: Thu, 12 March 2015, 14:11:20 »
I just realized, I selected the bent plate option for the matias linear switches, does this mean I wouldn't be able to eventually transfer it to an aftermarket case? I hope I can contact support and switch to the flat plate option.  Also, the "standard" layout will work fine with the matias linears, right? I opted for the blank dsa caps to go along with it.
Quote from: Photekq
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