Author Topic: Fingertips tired on 45g Topre  (Read 18080 times)

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Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: Fingertips tired on 45g Topre
« Reply #50 on: Sat, 13 December 2014, 08:15:35 »
As others have mentioned, there is a difference between fatigue from using heavy switches and soreness from the impact of bottoming out.

I prefer to bottom out with every keystroke on any keyboard. Because of this habit, I found it difficult to type on mx clears, because these switches have a rather steep slope of increasing force past actuation until bottoming out.

My favorite switches are 55g Topre and IBM capacitive buckling springs (Model F). I have a Novatouch in my rotation, but I find it too light for my taste. On the other hand, I have a HHKB Pro 2, but I find its 45g switches pleasant to type on.

If your fingers are sore from using your Novatouch, it could be that the switches are actually too light for you, and you are feeling the effects of impact from bottoming out.

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3670
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: Fingertips tired on 45g Topre
« Reply #51 on: Sat, 13 December 2014, 15:33:40 »
That's odd..the variable is really easy on the hands IMO....easier than most Cherry (certainly easier than blues).  [...] Before I got the variable, I didn't think I'd like it..I pretty much just tried it because the price was right...but I'm finding it is probably one of my favorite boards...It isn't as enjoyable to type on as something like a HHKB but it is just so easy on my hands..
Have you tried the variable? I find for a lot of typing it is a lot easier on the hands..specifically the pinky.... I enjoy my HHKB but when I need to do a lot of stuff with the keyboard, I strongly prefer the variable..not as thocky but enough...the fact that you're already using a RF means you'll be used to the difference..
Sell the all 45g (you have the novatouch anyways) and buy the variable....If you're typing a lot it is one of the best keyboards out there...terrible for games (IMO) but fantastic for typing..whenever I go back to any other keyboards my pinkies take awhile to get used to needing to press harder...the variable from that standpoint just makes sense..
I'm not making a judgment on form or applying a blanket statement..But again.. The variable has very light 30g topre (which are possible to not bottom out on).  If the issue is your little fingers are hurting (like your pinky), the variable is probably a very good if not optimal thing to try... The solution might be different if you were having issues with all of your fingers..but if specifically your pinky fingers are getting sore, seriously give the variable some thought..
Hey Polymer, we get it by now, you don’t need to keep repeating yourself. :-)

Offline Veridis

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 118
  • Location: Singapore
Re: Fingertips tired on 45g Topre
« Reply #52 on: Sun, 18 January 2015, 21:13:24 »
It has been a few weeks new and I'm both happy and sad to say that switching back to mx browns at work eliminated the dull aching sensation in my fingers.

Already sold the Novatouch, and will also sell the Realforce 87u 45g when I get the chance.  :(

I know I can just use topre once in a while to enjoy the cup rubber, but I hate having underutilized boards lying around!
Ducky Shine 3 TKL (MX Brown) | CM Rapid-i (MX Brown) | Realforce 87u 45g Uniform | CM Novatouch | Ducky Zero TKL (MX Brown) | Das Keyboard III (MX Blue)

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: Fingertips tired on 45g Topre
« Reply #53 on: Sun, 18 January 2015, 22:02:55 »
It has been a few weeks new and I'm both happy and sad to say that switching back to mx browns at work eliminated the dull aching sensation in my fingers.

Already sold the Novatouch, and will also sell the Realforce 87u 45g when I get the chance.  :(

I know I can just use topre once in a while to enjoy the cup rubber, but I hate having underutilized boards lying around!
Sometime you might want to try the HHKB Pro 2. The case-mounted Topre switches seem to have more give to them than the plate-mounted Topre switches in other Topre-switch keyboards.

Offline Findecanor

  • Posts: 5081
  • Location: Koriko
Re: Fingertips tired on 45g Topre
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 19 January 2015, 02:01:21 »
I used variable-force Topre Realforce at work and started to experience finger pain in my index fingers after a few months. The other fingers' keys are lighter, even so that I sometimes pressed some accidentally.
I much prefer my variable keyboard to the uniform 45g Novatouch, but that is also because of the better keycaps.

My preferred switch right now is the Cherry MX Clear, because it is both highly tactile and because the strong spring cushions my strokes so that I don't have to bottom out all the time. It is far from perfect though, mostly because of the sound and because it feels gritty without lube. A perfect switch would emit a sound only on actuation and never otherwise.
I think that Topre could make a switch with the force curve of Cherry MX Clear if they wanted to. First make the domes lighter and more tactile. (Key Tronic managed to, and their domes are very durable). Then install rubber rings so that they dampen also on the up-stroke. (Topre did). Last, place a coiled spring under each keycap (like all Topre Space Bars) to add a linear feel to the tactile bump to dampen the stoke to prevent bottoming out.
🍉

Offline Oobly

  • * Esteemed Elder
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  • Location: Finland
Re: Fingertips tired on 45g Topre
« Reply #55 on: Mon, 19 January 2015, 02:24:47 »
Topre are almost impossible not to bottom out on. I'd recommend either sticking with MX switches (possibly try ErgoClears if you like Browns but want more tactility and don't mind doing some modding, they have greater tactility even than stock Clears and are lighter) or if you want to try something new, Matias Quiet Click.

You can also make bottoming out on MX switches even less harmful by installing orings on the caps or even better, "trampolines" inside the switches: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50632.0

Nowadays I use the little silicone balls from IMSTO for trampoline modding.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline Sencha

  • HHKB Pro
  • Posts: 131
  • MX Reds <3
Re: Fingertips tired on 45g Topre
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 19 January 2015, 07:04:46 »
Maybe a large deskpad under the board would provided some cushion dem fingers?

Offline aceps00

  • Posts: 12
  • Location: Canada
Re: Fingertips tired on 45g Topre
« Reply #57 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 13:14:32 »
I bottom out on topres all the time, feels so satisfying.   :cool:
Type Heaven / IBM Model M

Offline Macsmasher

  • Posts: 462
  • Location: Portland, OR
Re: Fingertips tired on 45g Topre
« Reply #58 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 16:06:11 »
Maybe a large deskpad under the board would provided some cushion dem fingers?

Small clear rubber fisheye cabinet door bumpers will add some cushion as well as keep the keyboard from sliding around. I use something similar to these on all my boards...

http://www.amazon.com/Bumpers-Small-Diameter-Thick-Sheet/dp/B003F092P6/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1421790897&sr=8-12&keywords=clear+cabinet+door+bumpers

Home Depot type stores will have also have them.

In fact, to help level out my HHKB, I installed 6mm tall bumpers in the front and 2mm in the back. It sits like it's glued to my desk.

Offline Sencha

  • HHKB Pro
  • Posts: 131
  • MX Reds <3
Re: Fingertips tired on 45g Topre
« Reply #59 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 05:15:50 »
Yeah good call! Should defo help. I found 55g topre quite tough at first and just put a 6mm extra large mouse mat under it. I don't know if my fingers got stronger or if the domes broke in but it wasn't as issue after a few weeks. The 45g though always felt spot on for me.

Offline JSB

  • Posts: 4
Re: Fingertips tired on 45g Topre
« Reply #60 on: Sun, 27 September 2015, 07:38:29 »
I've used browns and blues most, tried reds for some time (didn't like the lack of tactility, but light typing was pleasant).
Decided to try Topre on Novatouch. First contact was little disappointing, they felt like slightly better rubber keys. I used the keyboard heavily for a week now to get used to it, and although I appreciate quality feel, I hate the fact I have to bottom out. My left pinky suffer the most. The break in point feels so stiff to me. I have one more week left before return period ends but I'll most likely return it.
On MX I float over the keys bottoming only some of them. Topre is not for everyone.

Offline Bucake

  • Posts: 945
  • Location: The Netherlands
Re: Fingertips tired on 45g Topre
« Reply #61 on: Sun, 27 September 2015, 10:36:56 »
on this topic, i noticed that my fingers will feel annoyed after using my Cherry MX Red board for a while, though i do not seem to experience the same issue on my topre or buckling spring boards..
my guess is that the light weight of Reds make me bottom out (harder), which irritates my fingers after a while.
IBM Model F XT // Realforce 87U 55g Type-S // HHKBP2 45g Type-S // KBT Pure Pro Cherry MX Red