Author Topic: Educate me on Korean tkls  (Read 2274 times)

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Offline Blackehart

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Educate me on Korean tkls
« on: Tue, 28 October 2014, 18:29:47 »
So call me a filthy philistine if you must...

What's the difference between kmac, 456gt, LZ, etc

I've seen Kmacs go as low as 300.
I've seen 356DE (i think) go for 700.
LZ's are somewhere in the middle.

All of them have an aluminum case, a plate, and a metallic plate.
I think the Kmac is the one with limited led options.
Is the price difference really availability? (I've seen 456's go for 600+ with no leds on them)

Thanks in advance for any info you can share.

-Blacke

Offline Puddsy

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Re: Educate me on Korean tkls
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 28 October 2014, 18:44:40 »
Differences can include LED options, original price, case, layout options, color, quality, weight...

Should I keep going?

Kustom TKLs are really deep. The only names that everyone (should) know are: 356CL (and the 356 mini), Duck saver boards, GON's boards, KMAC 1.2 and 2, and LZ-S,SE, and GH.

The price differences are also related to the original price. KMAC 2 kits are ~$450 new, while 356CL DGE kits were north of $600 IIRC. A 356DE wouldn't go for over 700, since the kit isn't as valued as the CL.

The 356CL is pretty much universally regarded as the best. You'll get that opinion from here, both the major Korean forums (OTD and KBDlab), some of the Chinese forums, and pretty much everywhere else.
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Offline Blackehart

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Re: Educate me on Korean tkls
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 28 October 2014, 18:52:53 »
You are correct, it was a CL.

Ah...I see. I hadn't thought about layout options and initial pricing.

Thanks for the input, good sir!

Offline Photekq

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Re: Educate me on Korean tkls
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 28 October 2014, 18:55:13 »
356CL DGE kits were north of $600 IIRC. A 356DE wouldn't go for over 700, since the kit isn't as valued as the CL.

The 356CL is pretty much universally regarded as the best. You'll get that opinion from here, both the major Korean forums (OTD and KBDlab), some of the Chinese forums, and pretty much everywhere else.
This is incorrect.

DGE kits were south of $400. DGEs can sell for $1k+.

While the 356CL is regarded as the best, it's worth noting that its internal construction is basically identical to 456GT, 360C, 356.2, and some others. Also, you won't get that opinion here since nobody here owns one! :))

You don't want to know how much 356CLs would sell for. Not that they're ever really sold.. A 356.2 (the custom with the 2nd highest market price, behind the CL) sold for $1850 shipped last week I think.

Offline ComradeSniper

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Re: Educate me on Korean tkls
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 28 October 2014, 18:56:41 »
I've seen 356DE (i think) go for 700.

Try about double that :p

Pretty much all OTD keyboards (356 Series, 360C, 456GT) have a removable brass weight (or two) in the bottom of the case to increase weight, and the angle of the keyboard is machined into the case itself. That adds quite a bit to the price because of the extra machining, and because brass is fairly expensive. OTD doesn't allow keyboards to be sold for profit on their market, but when they get out into the Chinese/US market or are sold privately then the price goes up because of rarity, or something like that  :-\

KMACs have feet on the bottom for angle which I imagine is a lot cheaper than building the angle into the case.

Offline Photekq

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Re: Educate me on Korean tkls
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 28 October 2014, 18:57:44 »
Try about double that :p

Pretty much all OTD keyboards (356 Series, 360C, 456GT) have a removable brass weight (or two) in the bottom of the case to increase weight, and the angle of the keyboard is machined into the case itself. That adds quite a bit to the price because of the extra machining, and because brass is fairly expensive. OTD doesn't allow keyboards to be sold for profit on their market, but when they get out into the Chinese/US market or are sold privately then the price goes up because of rarity.

KMACs have feet on the bottom for angle which I imagine is a lot cheaper than building the angle into the case.
DGE also has feet on the bottom, and has no brass weights. It was made as the 'budget' 356CL. It's like a prettier [and probably nicer feeling] KMAC.

Offline ComradeSniper

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Re: Educate me on Korean tkls
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 28 October 2014, 18:58:56 »
Try about double that :p

Pretty much all OTD keyboards (356 Series, 360C, 456GT) have a removable brass weight (or two) in the bottom of the case to increase weight, and the angle of the keyboard is machined into the case itself. That adds quite a bit to the price because of the extra machining, and because brass is fairly expensive. OTD doesn't allow keyboards to be sold for profit on their market, but when they get out into the Chinese/US market or are sold privately then the price goes up because of rarity.

KMACs have feet on the bottom for angle which I imagine is a lot cheaper than building the angle into the case.
DGE also has feet on the bottom, and has no brass weights. It was made as the 'budget' 356CL. It's like a prettier [and probably nicer feeling] KMAC.

Whaaaaat? I didn't know that. That's ridiculous.

Offline Photekq

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Re: Educate me on Korean tkls
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 28 October 2014, 19:02:55 »
Yup.. Owners rarely show the bottom of their DGE for that very reason! Here's some though :




Offline Puddsy

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Re: Educate me on Korean tkls
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 28 October 2014, 19:22:41 »
i have learned things
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Offline yicaoyimu

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Re: Educate me on Korean tkls
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 28 October 2014, 19:38:53 »
The price difference between OTD boards and other Korean custom boards is hardly justifiable to me. But if you ask, here's (I think) why OTD boards are so sought-after:

1. OTD is the first to make metal customs (correct me if I'm wrong) so OTD is really good at this (in some aspects, and sucks in others)
2. OTD boards are relatively hard to get, compared to KMAC, Duck, LZ, Gon, etc
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Educate me on Korean tkls
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 28 October 2014, 20:17:34 »
Here's a quick question about Korean keyboards - why are so many of them winkeyless?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline Photekq

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Re: Educate me on Korean tkls
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 28 October 2014, 20:19:06 »
Here's a quick question about Korean keyboards - why are so many of them winkeyless?
So that original Cherry keysets can be used.

The price difference between OTD boards and other Korean custom boards is hardly justifiable to me. But if you ask, here's (I think) why OTD boards are so sought-after:

1. OTD is the first to make metal customs (correct me if I'm wrong) so OTD is really good at this (in some aspects, and sucks in others)
2. OTD boards are relatively hard to get, compared to KMAC, Duck, LZ, Gon, etc

That's pretty much it I think. Also, some people may prefer OTD designs [myself included]. I believe the DK Saver was the first.


Offline rowdy

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Re: Educate me on Korean tkls
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 28 October 2014, 20:27:27 »
Here's a quick question about Korean keyboards - why are so many of them winkeyless?
So that original Cherry keysets can be used.

That's it?

As simple as that?

Then why aren't more (shall we say) US-designed keyboards like this?

Original Cherry keysets are very much desired, or is this another Korean obsession that has made its way overseas?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline Lastpilot

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Re: Educate me on Korean tkls
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 28 October 2014, 20:28:00 »
This DT post by sixty was pretty helpful for my kustomese.

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/the-korean-custom-keyboards-1-356-series-t255.html
« Last Edit: Tue, 28 October 2014, 20:53:58 by Lastpilot »

Offline Lastpilot

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Re: Educate me on Korean tkls
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 28 October 2014, 20:34:24 »
Here's a quick question about Korean keyboards - why are so many of them winkeyless?
I imagine it's a combination of being a popular style and Koreans being so much into competitive gaming. FFS, Starcraft is sometimes considered their National sport.

Offline 3Love

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Re: Educate me on Korean tkls
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 29 October 2014, 17:10:08 »

356CL DGE kits were north of $600 IIRC. A 356DE wouldn't go for over 700, since the kit isn't as valued as the CL.

The 356CL is pretty much universally regarded as the best. You'll get that opinion from here, both the major Korean forums (OTD and KBDlab), some of the Chinese forums, and pretty much everywhere else.
This is incorrect.

DGE kits were south of $400. DGEs can sell for $1k+.

While the 356CL is regarded as the best, it's worth noting that its internal construction is basically identical to 456GT, 360C, 356.2, and some others. Also, you won't get that opinion here since nobody here owns one! :))

You don't want to know how much 356CLs would sell for. Not that they're ever really sold.. A 356.2 (the custom with the 2nd highest market price, behind the CL) sold for $1850 shipped last week I think.
yes, last week. The reason for higher price is people love it. Like me. Haha
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Offline whentheclouds

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Re: Educate me on Korean tkls
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 29 October 2014, 17:35:40 »
someone needs to make fake 356s and advertise them on reddit

Offline dorkvader

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Re: Educate me on Korean tkls
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 29 October 2014, 20:18:51 »
Here's a quick question about Korean keyboards - why are so many of them winkeyless?
So that original Cherry keysets can be used.

This never made sense to me. I have at least 15 cherry keyboards in the house right now and all of them (save one: a dolch) are winkey.

Offline Photekq

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Re: Educate me on Korean tkls
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 29 October 2014, 20:20:04 »
This never made sense to me. I have at least 15 cherry keyboards in the house right now and all of them (save one: a dolch) are winkey.
Beige dyesub/doubleshot in particular, which are either only found in winkeyless [dyesub] or are really, really rare in winkey [doubleshots].