Author Topic: Introducing my Project: Gerät Eins - a Premium 65mk with Dial  (Read 2064 times)

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Offline maschine

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  • Location: Berlin, Germany
Hey everybody,

after my fun project, the Nintendo64 inspired NMK64 I'm introducing a more serious project which I call the Gerät Eins, German for "device one". The mk was designed first and foremost around my needs and was created around a TA65, so it will also be compatible with the Tada68 pcb. It's top-mounted, angled at 7°, the base will be brass, the top alu, featuring a relatively heavy, half-cylindrical brass weight which works as a stand. I imagine the mk to have an overall very matte, almost like a fine sandpaper finish which feels premium and "pro" and not apple-esque.

The main problem I occured will be the dial on the left hand side. It was inspired by classic Leica cameras and premium hifi devices and was designed "over" the edge/border. I couldn't find any rotary encoder which is which is small enough to not getting through the case. I'd welcome any advises and recommendations. I think the dial will be the most challenging part of the whole mk tbh - everything else will be pretty straightforward (I hope).

Worst case would to give up the dial but I'd love to keep it because I need a dial for volume control or to adjust brush sizes, rotating the canvas, choosing tools, I have a lot of artist friends who also wish they'd have a dial on the left. Maybe it will be wise to have a custom pcb down the road, because the pins for the rotary encoder on the TA65 is next to the backspace which will a bit fiddly I guess.

Here are some CAD screenshots and renders.

I'll keep the community in the loop about the progress.





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Offline nevin

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Re: Introducing my Project: Gerät Eins - a Premium 65mk with Dial
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 22 April 2020, 16:14:19 »
what are the dimensions you are shooting for? (it's not mentioned)
there are some half-height or low profile encoders as well as smd encoders.
not sure if the height of the stem or the base width of the casing+pcb is the main problem...
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Offline maschine

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Re: Introducing my Project: Gerät Eins - a Premium 65mk with Dial
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 24 April 2020, 07:17:23 »
Oh you're right, sorry - the thickness I'm aiming for is 1,5cm. I was shooting for a even flater profile in case you want to use the mk without the stand so the edge doesn't cut into your palm. However 1,5cm is the flatest I can go with still featuring an optional silicon damper mat. For now I've put the rotator encoder aside and focus on a working interior design that looks slick. When everything works and is production ready then I will put my focus back on the encoder and go from there.

Anyway, I think the height of the stem AND the base width might be the problem here - the low profile ones you mentioned will solve the first problem I guess, let's see what we can do about the base. Thanks for the tips!

Offline nevin

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Re: Introducing my Project: Gerät Eins - a Premium 65mk with Dial
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 24 April 2020, 08:20:44 »
it should be doable.

the only other thing i can think of would be the bottom most part of the dial would actually be part of the case, to house the part of the pcb for the encoder. the cap/knob would have to stop at the pcb or it wouldn't be able to turn a full 360 deg.

this would give the illusion of only the cap/knob sticking out of the case.
like so:
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Offline maschine

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Re: Introducing my Project: Gerät Eins - a Premium 65mk with Dial
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 24 April 2020, 09:55:11 »
You know what... that's actually pretty awesome and so "simple" if you know the trick. I've seen some low profile encoders with a circular board which might fit. I think that could be the way to go - let's find out...

Thanks man! Will post some progress.

Offline maschine

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Re: Introducing my Project: Gerät Eins - a Premium 65mk with Dial
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 24 April 2020, 10:52:34 »
Sorry for the double post but I just tried to implement nevin's design suggestion and it works very well - I took a low profile rotary encoder from Alps and there's still plenty of room left within the dial diameter.

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« Last Edit: Fri, 24 April 2020, 10:55:08 by maschine »

Offline nevin

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Re: Introducing my Project: Gerät Eins - a Premium 65mk with Dial
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 24 April 2020, 11:02:17 »
great! looks good.

do you have a rendering with caps? even dark charcoal or black blanks?

btw.... love the look/styling of this board.

Keeb.io Viterbi, Apple m0110, Apple m0120, Apple m0110a, Apple 658-4081, Apple M1242, Apple AEK II, MK96, GH60/Pure, Cherry g84-4100, Adesso AKP-220B, Magicforce 68

Offline maschine

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Re: Introducing my Project: Gerät Eins - a Premium 65mk with Dial
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 24 April 2020, 12:24:32 »
Thanks man.

Yeah, here's a shot with a set I'm testing especially for this project, it's called "Binär" - I used blank sets before so without symbols works for me personally.

Any suggestions for other sets are welcome.




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Offline nevin

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Re: Introducing my Project: Gerät Eins - a Premium 65mk with Dial
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 24 April 2020, 14:55:38 »
yep. that's what i was thinking.... something very low contrast, if any mod colors, very dark and very subtle.
very nice. dsa?
Keeb.io Viterbi, Apple m0110, Apple m0120, Apple m0110a, Apple 658-4081, Apple M1242, Apple AEK II, MK96, GH60/Pure, Cherry g84-4100, Adesso AKP-220B, Magicforce 68

Offline maschine

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Re: Introducing my Project: Gerät Eins - a Premium 65mk with Dial
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 24 April 2020, 15:48:45 »
yeah right - the whole theme is premium and sophisticated without being apple-ish but more like a movie prop from Dark Knight, Ex-Machina, Gattaca etc. Yup, dsa - I think it fits more to the nature of the case - straight lines and all caps replacecable because not sculpted.

Offline mkberlin

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Re: Introducing my Project: Gerät Eins - a Premium 65mk with Dial
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 30 April 2020, 01:24:06 »
impressive renders, which software did you use?

Offline maschine

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Re: Introducing my Project: Gerät Eins - a Premium 65mk with Dial
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 30 April 2020, 02:56:43 »
Thnx! I'm using Corona (no pun intended). It's a pretty awesome renderer.

Greetings from another Berliner.

Offline maschine

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Re: Introducing my Project: Gerät Eins - a Premium 65mk with Dial
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 30 April 2020, 11:38:33 »
@Maledicted: I'll continue our talk here because it's quite techie and related to this board:) The switches recommendations are very insightful man, I will try to get my fingers on them and give you my opinion.

Sound design is an integral part of the whole design which sounds paradoxical as there's a huge gab between bottom and desk. However, the board is very "dense", both in terms of material (Alu top but brass plate, brass bottom & weight) as well as design - there's little tolerance between all components and the stand which exceeds the border of the case is bold and dense as well. There will be also a smaller weight with no stand functionality which allows the board to sit flat on the desk - that might be the option I'd personally use I guess because I like 0 angle or a minimal angle like on the K70 without the feet extended.

There will also be a special mounting system and a new, separate plate design which I will introduce later:)


Offline Maledicted

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  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Introducing my Project: Gerät Eins - a Premium 65mk with Dial
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 30 April 2020, 12:01:25 »
@Maledicted: I'll continue our talk here because it's quite techie and related to this board:) The switches recommendations are very insightful man, I will try to get my fingers on them and give you my opinion.

Sound design is an integral part of the whole design which sounds paradoxical as there's a huge gab between bottom and desk. However, the board is very "dense", both in terms of material (Alu top but brass plate, brass bottom & weight) as well as design - there's little tolerance between all components and the stand which exceeds the border of the case is bold and dense as well. There will be also a smaller weight with no stand functionality which allows the board to sit flat on the desk - that might be the option I'd personally use I guess because I like 0 angle or a minimal angle like on the K70 without the feet extended.

There will also be a special mounting system and a new, separate plate design which I will introduce later:)

Sounds good. I just wanted to make sure you didn't commit to a certain switch before you've tried some more.

With all of the acoustic considerations you're putting into the board, it will certainly be interesting to hear how different switches may sound in it vs other boards. I have never really even thought much about angle before myself, but now that you mention the K70 with the feet down, I do notice that I usually type without those extended on any given board I use, and this F77 has literally no angle at all to it, neither does my TG3 cop keyboard which I use most with my HTPC setup at home, since those were designed to just be mounted somewhere.

Just like your Nintendo 64 keyboard, this is looking great.

Offline maschine

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Re: Introducing my Project: Gerät Eins - a Premium 65mk with Dial
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 30 April 2020, 12:21:45 »
Haha that's funny because I've noticed the feet of the K70 relatively late, and then, even later I noticed that the K70 has front feet - did you? This allows you to write at a negative angle which I tried, it works but I still prefer the flat option. I also didn't use the feet on my HHKB either, guess heavily angled boards are not for me as I don't like to bend my wrists while typing.

Btw. The Sat75 even goes up to 1300 on Discord - so in case you don't know how to spend your stimulus boost haha...



Offline Maledicted

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  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Introducing my Project: Gerät Eins - a Premium 65mk with Dial
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 30 April 2020, 13:52:40 »
Haha that's funny because I've noticed the feet of the K70 relatively late, and then, even later I noticed that the K70 has front feet - did you? This allows you to write at a negative angle which I tried, it works but I still prefer the flat option. I also didn't use the feet on my HHKB either, guess heavily angled boards are not for me as I don't like to bend my wrists while typing.

Btw. The Sat75 even goes up to 1300 on Discord - so in case you don't know how to spend your stimulus boost haha...

I sort of knew that those legs were present on the front of the K70, but I never payed them any attention, just like all other keyboard feet. I usually barely notice that they exist. That's interesting that they included that. I wonder how many boards have that sort of feature, other than the super ergo split keyboards.

There's no way I'll spend that much for a modern keyboard. I have paid less for cars, cars that turned out to be pretty reliable. I'm sure that there will be new batches of those boards. Besides, I'm still eying up getting an F107.

Offline mkberlin

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Re: Introducing my Project: Gerät Eins - a Premium 65mk with Dial
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 30 April 2020, 14:34:53 »
Thnx! I'm using Corona (no pun intended). It's a pretty awesome renderer.

Greetings from another Berliner.

Greetings back! I am in Mitte and building too many keyboards these days ;)

And with which software did you model, AutoCad or something more like 3DStudio or Cinema4d?

Offline maschine

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Re: Introducing my Project: Gerät Eins - a Premium 65mk with Dial
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 30 April 2020, 14:40:27 »
Nice man, I used to work quite often in Mitte but now it's more Kreuzberg.

I'm using Fusion360 for CAD and C4D for Rendering.

Offline maschine

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Re: Introducing my Project: Gerät Eins - a Premium 65mk with Dial
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 17 May 2020, 10:16:15 »
Hey everybody, I used the past 2 weeks for a design overhaul with a completely new interior, switching to a seperate plate design and gasket mount which take advantage from the huge bezel. Also, me and gtrx (who's designing the main pcb and rotary encoder daughterboard) managed to get the whole setup working with the dial continuing beyond the case border which has always been a design feature.

Most of the work went into the plate design where I did a lot of static sims and generative design in Fusion but eventually decided against a generative look and went with a heavy industrial, non-organic look which follows the design language of the whole project. Nevertheless, the plate should be well balance and have an adjusted sound and feel from the alphas to the outer keys.

Additionally, I extended the bottom weight, it's massive now and it literally the bottom case while the visible bottom case only remains as a alu-frame - it's a pretty heavy keeb now which helps to compensate the floating design.

here are some new renders.

credits: PCB design and GMK Nord by GTRX

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