Author Topic: NOW OPEN SOURCE!!! swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]  (Read 2748532 times)

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Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1050 on: Thu, 14 May 2015, 09:03:40 »
When designing sandwich plates I find that the screw holes are too close to the edge of the plates. How are the hole placements calculated? I assume it has something to do with distance from the closest switch, and it has to be in the middle of the center of the open and closed middle pieces. If that was the case though, I don't think it would be showing up as close to the edge as it does in my designs.

Speaking of the open pieces, could you add an option to set the location of the opening? Even just left third, center and right third would be nice.

I noticed the discussion about the stabs above. I'm planning on making my first place out of 3mm acrylic. Obviously the switches don't clip in properly, but it works on the ErgoDox so I figure it can work for a first-attempt here as well. My question is if any kind of stabs work in a 3mm plate?

Thanks.

The holes are placed at half the padding width.  I am using M3 screws in my plate and I used 6mm padding (since the head of the screw is 5.5mm wide).  If you want more space, make the x and y padding larger and the screw hole will be placed in the center of the specified padding.

I have been thinking of adding a way to change the position of the USB opening (and it size), but I had not figured out how to let the user select the positioning in an understandable way.  I will review this again when I have a chance...

If you are using a 3mm acrylic plate you MUST use a PCB.  Also, your only option for stabilizers is Cherry PCB mount stabilizers.  I am not sure how the PCB will be held below the plate though.  I have only seen 5mm acrylic plates when they are not 1.5mm because 5mm takes up the full space between the PCB and the plate.  I don't have experience with this, so I am not going to have much guidance...

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1051 on: Thu, 14 May 2015, 09:08:09 »
Taking a closer look at the output DXFs I'm wondering if the problem is the size of the middle pieces, which the holes must be in the center of. It would be helpful to understand how the width of the middle outline pieces are calculated. I also wonder if there is a minimum distance required for particular hole sizes using particular materials. Perhaps a M2 hole can be 2 mm from the edge in stainless steel, but would need to be 3mm from the edge in Acrylic, etc.

Also, what is the best resource for understanding all the precise measurements of the switch holes, stab holes, distance between them, etc. I see a lot of that is spread out through this thread, and I know Cherry has some measurement inform in their product sheets, but I'm curious if there are good online resources that explain all the variables for different switch types, different keycap sizes, cherry vs. costar stabs, mx and other switches, etc.

Lastly, for those who have built sandwich cases using Swill's tool, what materials did you use, what cutting techniques, how thick were all your plates, and how many layers did you use? Curious to hear what has worked, and also learn from what has not.

Thanks.

As for a good resource, I would checkout the DXF files in the CAD Resources thread.  Otherwise it is pretty hit and miss.  I actually drew my own cutouts because I could not find any consensus in the available resources.  I did my cutouts based on the cherry spec, but adapted it for the combined Cherry + Costar cutout (which I will be changing a bit soon).

For my plate, I used brass for the top and bottom and wood in he middle.  I know most people use aluminum for the top and bottom and maybe acrylic in the middle.  Stainless steel is also pretty common for the top and bottom plates.

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1052 on: Fri, 15 May 2015, 00:03:43 »
The costar only cutout is not working for me. I have the same problem you demonstrate here:

Show Image


However, I've decided I really don't like costar stabs in the meantime so my next iteration will use cherry stabs.
OK. I am getting conflicting reports on this, but to me that says that the tolerances are too tight. I will adapt both cutouts a bit to accommodate. Thx for letting me know.

N/p, thanks for such a great tool. Tolerances being too tight makes a lot of sense as I painted my plate, which would add just a tiny bit more thickness.

Offline LeandreN

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1053 on: Fri, 15 May 2015, 03:16:39 »
Please let me know when you have updated for the Costar stabs and if I should just safe it, or update my plate :)
Thanks!

Offline trauring

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1054 on: Fri, 15 May 2015, 10:21:29 »
For my plate, I used brass for the top and bottom and wood in he middle.  I know most people use aluminum for the top and bottom and maybe acrylic in the middle.  Stainless steel is also pretty common for the top and bottom plates.


How thick were your brass and wood layers respectively? Can you post a picture of an assembled keyboard?

Quote
If you are using a 3mm acrylic plate you MUST use a PCB.  Also, your only option for stabilizers is Cherry PCB mount stabilizers.  I am not sure how the PCB will be held below the plate though.  I have only seen 5mm acrylic plates when they are not 1.5mm because 5mm takes up the full space between the PCB and the plate.  I don't have experience with this, so I am not going to have much guidance...

Luckily I have some PCB-mount Cherry stabs on order from a recent group buy. Speaking of PCBs, is the next step to output a file that can be used to create the PCB?

Offline LeandreN

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1055 on: Fri, 15 May 2015, 16:08:09 »
Swill, i tested the plate today, and the Costar stabs on both my 1,5 mm plates Costar + Cherry stabs, is a little slow and sticky. BUT IT ONLY APPEARS at the 2u stabilizer keys, not the spacebar. I cannot find the problem on the plate itself, it is just sticky, and very inconsistent. I want to know; when will you fix this, and how sure are you that you fix will fix my stabilisers? I don't have time or money to sample one more time. Thanks for your time!


Pictures: http://imgur.com/a/0zHec

EDIT: after hitting it a bit, it is much better, but i don't know how it is supposed to feel. pretty heavy still..

LeandreN

Offline Spopepro

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1056 on: Fri, 15 May 2015, 17:28:05 »
When designing sandwich plates I find that the screw holes are too close to the edge of the plates. How are the hole placements calculated? I assume it has something to do with distance from the closest switch, and it has to be in the middle of the center of the open and closed middle pieces. If that was the case though, I don't think it would be showing up as close to the edge as it does in my designs.

Speaking of the open pieces, could you add an option to set the location of the opening? Even just left third, center and right third would be nice.

I noticed the discussion about the stabs above. I'm planning on making my first place out of 3mm acrylic. Obviously the switches don't clip in properly, but it works on the ErgoDox so I figure it can work for a first-attempt here as well. My question is if any kind of stabs work in a 3mm plate?

Thanks.

The holes are placed at half the padding width.  I am using M3 screws in my plate and I used 6mm padding (since the head of the screw is 5.5mm wide).  If you want more space, make the x and y padding larger and the screw hole will be placed in the center of the specified padding.

I have been thinking of adding a way to change the position of the USB opening (and it size), but I had not figured out how to let the user select the positioning in an understandable way.  I will review this again when I have a chance...

If you are using a 3mm acrylic plate you MUST use a PCB.  Also, your only option for stabilizers is Cherry PCB mount stabilizers.  I am not sure how the PCB will be held below the plate though.  I have only seen 5mm acrylic plates when they are not 1.5mm because 5mm takes up the full space between the PCB and the plate.  I don't have experience with this, so I am not going to have much guidance...

I disagree--Costar stabs work well, but you must have near perfect alignment and openings.  I'm typing on a 3mm acrylic plate keyboard with costar stabs*.  Most worked just fine, but a few caught, much like described here, so I took the dremel and chamfered the underside edge just a little bit and everything was great.  Yep, they pop out easy, but they stay put while typing.



*the plan was to use cherry stabs, but I soldered everything up before remembering that the stabs go first... so costar it was.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1057 on: Fri, 15 May 2015, 17:31:15 »
Swill, i tested the plate today, and the Costar stabs on both my 1,5 mm plates Costar + Cherry stabs, is a little slow and sticky. BUT IT ONLY APPEARS at the 2u stabilizer keys, not the spacebar. I cannot find the problem on the plate itself, it is just sticky, and very inconsistent. I want to know; when will you fix this, and how sure are you that you fix will fix my stabilisers? I don't have time or money to sample one more time. Thanks for your time!


Pictures: http://imgur.com/a/0zHec

EDIT: after hitting it a bit, it is much better, but i don't know how it is supposed to feel. pretty heavy still..

LeandreN
I will try to do the update tonight. I am very confident in the cutout shape since it will be very similar to jd's proven cutout.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1058 on: Fri, 15 May 2015, 22:55:18 »
UPDATE: Fix for Costar and Cherry + Costar stabilizers has been implemented...

The net result of what I did is basically give the top stabilizer upright for Costar stabilizers another 0.15mm of space to work with.

Here is a scale drawing based on LeandreN's drawing and some measuring with a caliper (I had already done this once with my tests, so his pictures and the ones previously in the thread confirmed it).



It happens to turn out that both of these drawings end up matching JD's drawing almost perfectly now.  He said he is pretty happy with his drawing, so that is also a vote of confidence in these cutouts now.

Here are the all 3 drawings superimposed on each other.

Costar Only (updated)
Cherry + Costar (updated)
jdcarpe's cutout (grey)

100826-1

100828-2
« Last Edit: Fri, 15 May 2015, 22:56:52 by swill »

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1059 on: Sat, 16 May 2015, 00:00:14 »
Thanks for the updates tonight, I just sent BBS an order for the darkstar keyboard mk2.

One thing about a split keyboard design is that I have to create two files so I end up paying the setup fee twice. It'd be awesome if a future version of this tool had the ability to put both halves of the split keyboard onto the same drawing.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1060 on: Sat, 16 May 2015, 08:32:40 »
Thanks for the updates tonight, I just sent BBS an order for the darkstar keyboard mk2.

One thing about a split keyboard design is that I have to create two files so I end up paying the setup fee twice. It'd be awesome if a future version of this tool had the ability to put both halves of the split keyboard onto the same drawing.
You could always do the layout of the two together in a free cad program before sending the job to BBS.

Offline LeandreN

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1061 on: Sat, 16 May 2015, 09:05:13 »
Thanks for all the help Swill. I will jump on your new design and add a note in the GB that Costar may not work.

Hopefully it doesn't mess up anything else, but it really shouldn't.


Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1062 on: Sat, 16 May 2015, 09:27:47 »
Thanks for all the help Swill. I will jump on your new design and add a note in the GB that Costar may not work.

Hopefully it doesn't mess up anything else, but it really shouldn't.
I am pretty confident in the costar support now. :)

Offline LeandreN

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1063 on: Sat, 16 May 2015, 09:28:12 »
Thanks for all the help Swill. I will jump on your new design and add a note in the GB that Costar may not work.

Hopefully it doesn't mess up anything else, but it really shouldn't.
I am pretty confident in the costar support now. :)
Awesome!

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1064 on: Sat, 16 May 2015, 09:32:43 »
Thanks for all the help Swill. I will jump on your new design and add a note in the GB that Costar may not work.

Hopefully it doesn't mess up anything else, but it really shouldn't.
I am pretty confident in the costar support now. :)
Awesome!
Just be sure to redraw now that the new code is online. As long as its the new cutout as of last night, you should be all set.

What layout are you doing for your GB?  Gotta link to it?

Ws

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1065 on: Sat, 16 May 2015, 09:34:20 »
Thanks for all the help Swill. I will jump on your new design and add a note in the GB that Costar may not work.

Hopefully it doesn't mess up anything else, but it really shouldn't.
I am pretty confident in the costar support now. :)
Awesome!
Just be sure to redraw now that the new code is online. As long as its the new cutout as of last night, you should be all set.

What layout are you doing for your GB?  Gotta link to it?

Ws

I will redraw later :)

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71034.0

:)

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1066 on: Sat, 16 May 2015, 13:02:30 »
Thanks for the updates tonight, I just sent BBS an order for the darkstar keyboard mk2.

One thing about a split keyboard design is that I have to create two files so I end up paying the setup fee twice. It'd be awesome if a future version of this tool had the ability to put both halves of the split keyboard onto the same drawing.
You could always do the layout of the two together in a free cad program before sending the job to BBS.

Yes, I will learn how to do that eventually. Right now every time I try I get frustrated by everything I don't know,  and give up. Both libreCad and DraftSight are non-intuitive to me, and I haven't had the several hours of unbroken free time to get over that hurdle.

Offline LeandreN

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1067 on: Sat, 16 May 2015, 13:03:34 »
Thanks for the updates tonight, I just sent BBS an order for the darkstar keyboard mk2.

One thing about a split keyboard design is that I have to create two files so I end up paying the setup fee twice. It'd be awesome if a future version of this tool had the ability to put both halves of the split keyboard onto the same drawing.
You could always do the layout of the two together in a free cad program before sending the job to BBS.

Yes, I will learn how to do that eventually. Right now every time I try I get frustrated by everything I don't know,  and give up. Both libreCad and DraftSight are non-intuitive to me, and I haven't had the several hours of unbroken free time to get over that hurdle.
Have you tried FreeCAD?

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1068 on: Sat, 16 May 2015, 13:10:17 »
Thanks for the updates tonight, I just sent BBS an order for the darkstar keyboard mk2.

One thing about a split keyboard design is that I have to create two files so I end up paying the setup fee twice. It'd be awesome if a future version of this tool had the ability to put both halves of the split keyboard onto the same drawing.
You could always do the layout of the two together in a free cad program before sending the job to BBS.

Yes, I will learn how to do that eventually. Right now every time I try I get frustrated by everything I don't know,  and give up. Both libreCad and DraftSight are non-intuitive to me, and I haven't had the several hours of unbroken free time to get over that hurdle.
I am using freecad and it is not too bad. Reasonable docs as well once you get into it a bit.  Be sure to use the 'draft' workspace and you should have everything you need. 

Let me know if you have questions if you do start playing with it, I am pretty confident in there now.

Its funny, I built this tool so I didn't have to learn cad to build my plates. As a result I am getting better at cad. Haha.

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1069 on: Sat, 16 May 2015, 20:35:11 »
I am using freecad and it is not too bad. Reasonable docs as well once you get into it a bit.  Be sure to use the 'draft' workspace and you should have everything you need. 

Let me know if you have questions if you do start playing with it, I am pretty confident in there now.

Its funny, I built this tool so I didn't have to learn cad to build my plates. As a result I am getting better at cad. Haha.

What's even funnier is that's exactly the sort of thing I'd do. If you had the source code up somewhere and I had a free weekend I'd probably take a stab at adding the feature myself. I already spend my days writing python for work. :)

I'll check FreeCAD out, it'd be nice to put together some real drawings for some of the things I want to do. I have an idea for a case design I haven't seen done yet.

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1070 on: Sat, 16 May 2015, 20:50:25 »
I am using freecad and it is not too bad. Reasonable docs as well once you get into it a bit.  Be sure to use the 'draft' workspace and you should have everything you need. 

Let me know if you have questions if you do start playing with it, I am pretty confident in there now.

Its funny, I built this tool so I didn't have to learn cad to build my plates. As a result I am getting better at cad. Haha.

What's even funnier is that's exactly the sort of thing I'd do. If you had the source code up somewhere and I had a free weekend I'd probably take a stab at adding the feature myself. I already spend my days writing python for work. :)

I'll check FreeCAD out, it'd be nice to put together some real drawings for some of the things I want to do. I have an idea for a case design I haven't seen done yet.

FreeCAD's sketcher module is a really good way to approach 3D, but it's not necessarily intuitive. But stick with it, it's worth learning.

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Offline derezzed

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1071 on: Sat, 16 May 2015, 23:20:06 »
Thanks for the updates tonight, I just sent BBS an order for the darkstar keyboard mk2.

One thing about a split keyboard design is that I have to create two files so I end up paying the setup fee twice. It'd be awesome if a future version of this tool had the ability to put both halves of the split keyboard onto the same drawing.

With LibreCAD, you can have both plates in a single file quite easily.

100972-0

I used your link to the keyboard layout editor in two different tabs and isolated each half of your design.  Then I pasted the results into swill's plate builder and saved as DXF.  I followed swill's instructions for setting the main drawing unit as millimeters, and saving the files as Drawing Exchange DXF 2007 files.  Then, in one of the LibreCAD instances, I clicked File>Import>Block, navigated to the folder where the dxf files are and selected the dxf file for the other half of the keyboard.  LibreCAD puts an outline of the new object with crosshairs in the drawing window.  I just moved it close to the existing plate and left-clicked the mouse to place the imported plate.  Hit the escape key to get out of that mode, or move the outline somewhere else and left-click the mouse to place another copy of the imported object.  You can even import an object from the current drawing into itself by selecting the currently open file from the Import dialog box.

100974-1

You can hit some decent economies of scale by having several plates in a single drawing versus having a single plate.  Just make sure you only include plates that all have the same thickness.  BBS won't be able to cut a 3mm thick base plate from the same file as a 1.5mm switch plate.  Now that I think about it though, I wonder if a decent price break could be achieved by adding two 1.5mm thick base plates to a file with a 1.5mm thick switch plate would be cheaper than having a separate file for a 3mm thick base plate.  I'll have to research that.


*edit*

I just did a price comparison on BBS.  The cost to make a sandwich case from a single file that has 2 bottom plates, 1 switch plate, 4 open layers, and 4 closed layers is $197.90 for 1.5mm stainless.  The cost to make just a switch plate from 1.5mm stainless and a bottom plate from 3mm stainless (2 separate drawings, by necessity) costs $184.90.  The first example has the middle layers made of stainless, whereas, many examples I've seen use acrylic for the middle layers.  I didn't bother to calculate the cost of the middle layers for the second example because I'm certain they can't be produced for $13 (the difference between an entire case cut from a single sheet and two plates cut from 2 different sheets of steel). 

The cost to cut two 1.5mm bottom plates (stacked to make a 3mm base) and one 1.5mm switch plate using a single drawing is $98.30.  I haven't had any experience with buying cases yet, but $98 seems to me like a compelling price for a one-off open case when prototyping.  Of course, this presupposes that the bottom plates will be flat enough to stack together without any warping that would produce an unstable base.

100976-2
« Last Edit: Sun, 17 May 2015, 00:05:42 by derezzed »

Offline OverKill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1072 on: Mon, 18 May 2015, 12:21:55 »
It should not be a problem with the costar only stabilizer given that I followed the only spec I had for it.  That being said, reviewing the measurements, the difference between the two cutouts is smaller than I was expecting (0.07mm), so I may need to get someone to verify that the costar only cutout is working perfectly.

The costar only cutout is not working for me. I have the same problem you demonstrate here:

Show Image


However, I've decided I really don't like costar stabs in the meantime so my next iteration will use cherry stabs.

I would just like to point out, it looks like you have the plastic inserts for the stabilizer in backwards in the keycap. Notice how the plastic inserts are offset to one side; also notice how the gap on the right is about the same as the overlap on the left that you are pointing out. Try flipping the plastic inserts around.

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1073 on: Mon, 18 May 2015, 12:31:02 »
It should not be a problem with the costar only stabilizer given that I followed the only spec I had for it.  That being said, reviewing the measurements, the difference between the two cutouts is smaller than I was expecting (0.07mm), so I may need to get someone to verify that the costar only cutout is working perfectly.

The costar only cutout is not working for me. I have the same problem you demonstrate here:

Show Image


However, I've decided I really don't like costar stabs in the meantime so my next iteration will use cherry stabs.

I would just like to point out, it looks like you have the plastic inserts for the stabilizer in backwards in the keycap. Notice how the plastic inserts are offset to one side; also notice how the gap on the right is about the same as the overlap on the left that you are pointing out. Try flipping the plastic inserts around.

It's inserted in the correct side, it should look away from the wire

He also said he tried the other way around and it was worse

By the way, since a lot of people reported similar issues with the infinitykb, is it because the same calculations were used?
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Offline samwisekoi

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1074 on: Mon, 18 May 2015, 13:05:37 »
Awesome tool!  I just tried it for the GH36, and I have a question.

I see how to rotate cutouts, but how do I rotate 2x cutouts?  For example, the Enter and + switches on a number pad?

I see no change in any version of {h:2},"Enter", {h:2,_r:180},"Enter" or {h:2},{_r:180},"Enter", {_r:180,h:2},"Enter".

Is there a combination that should rotate a 2x vertical cutout so that the top of the switch points to the left?

Thanks in advance!

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1075 on: Mon, 18 May 2015, 16:48:54 »
Awesome tool!  I just tried it for the GH36, and I have a question.

I see how to rotate cutouts, but how do I rotate 2x cutouts?  For example, the Enter and + switches on a number pad?

I see no change in any version of {h:2},"Enter", {h:2,_r:180},"Enter" or {h:2},{_r:180},"Enter", {_r:180,h:2},"Enter".

Is there a combination that should rotate a 2x vertical cutout so that the top of the switch points to the left?

Thanks in advance!

 - Ron | samwisekoi

The plate builder doesn't do rotation (yet?) which is probably why you're having problems.  I think your best option is to do it mirrored then flip the cut plate over - not sure what options you're using so try this :)

Code: [Select]
["","","","","",""],
["","","","","",""],
[{h:2},"","","","","",""],
[{x:1},"","","","",""],
[{h:2},"","","","","",""],
[{x:1},"",{w:2},"",{w:2},""]
                               
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Offline samwisekoi

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1076 on: Mon, 18 May 2015, 18:36:51 »
Thanks.  I can also just rotate the shape in CAD, but the big question mark said I could rotate, so I tried to do so.  And then assumed it was pilot error when it didn't work.

But, yes, unimplemented features rarely work!

Thanks again,

 - Ron | samwisekoi
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1077 on: Mon, 18 May 2015, 20:34:51 »
Thanks for the updates tonight, I just sent BBS an order for the darkstar keyboard mk2.

One thing about a split keyboard design is that I have to create two files so I end up paying the setup fee twice. It'd be awesome if a future version of this tool had the ability to put both halves of the split keyboard onto the same drawing.

With LibreCAD, you can have both plates in a single file quite easily.

(Attachment Link)

I used your link to the keyboard layout editor in two different tabs and isolated each half of your design.  Then I pasted the results into swill's plate builder and saved as DXF.  I followed swill's instructions for setting the main drawing unit as millimeters, and saving the files as Drawing Exchange DXF 2007 files.  Then, in one of the LibreCAD instances, I clicked File>Import>Block, navigated to the folder where the dxf files are and selected the dxf file for the other half of the keyboard.  LibreCAD puts an outline of the new object with crosshairs in the drawing window.  I just moved it close to the existing plate and left-clicked the mouse to place the imported plate.  Hit the escape key to get out of that mode, or move the outline somewhere else and left-click the mouse to place another copy of the imported object.  You can even import an object from the current drawing into itself by selecting the currently open file from the Import dialog box.

(Attachment Link)

You can hit some decent economies of scale by having several plates in a single drawing versus having a single plate.  Just make sure you only include plates that all have the same thickness.  BBS won't be able to cut a 3mm thick base plate from the same file as a 1.5mm switch plate.  Now that I think about it though, I wonder if a decent price break could be achieved by adding two 1.5mm thick base plates to a file with a 1.5mm thick switch plate would be cheaper than having a separate file for a 3mm thick base plate.  I'll have to research that.


*edit*

I just did a price comparison on BBS.  The cost to make a sandwich case from a single file that has 2 bottom plates, 1 switch plate, 4 open layers, and 4 closed layers is $197.90 for 1.5mm stainless.  The cost to make just a switch plate from 1.5mm stainless and a bottom plate from 3mm stainless (2 separate drawings, by necessity) costs $184.90.  The first example has the middle layers made of stainless, whereas, many examples I've seen use acrylic for the middle layers.  I didn't bother to calculate the cost of the middle layers for the second example because I'm certain they can't be produced for $13 (the difference between an entire case cut from a single sheet and two plates cut from 2 different sheets of steel). 

The cost to cut two 1.5mm bottom plates (stacked to make a 3mm base) and one 1.5mm switch plate using a single drawing is $98.30.  I haven't had any experience with buying cases yet, but $98 seems to me like a compelling price for a one-off open case when prototyping.  Of course, this presupposes that the bottom plates will be flat enough to stack together without any warping that would produce an unstable base.

(Attachment Link)

This is very cool. Thank you for putting together step by step instructions, I will definitely be doing this for the next plate I order. I'd like to think my current plate on order will be my last, but I know I will have to make at least one more revision.

Online suicidal_orange

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1078 on: Tue, 19 May 2015, 02:53:05 »
Thanks.  I can also just rotate the shape in CAD, but the big question mark said I could rotate, so I tried to do so.  And then assumed it was pilot error when it didn't work.

But, yes, unimplemented features rarely work!

Thanks again,

 - Ron | samwisekoi
That'll teach me to look who asked the question - I couldn't flip it in CAD (well, give me 5 mins...) but this is hardly your first project :))
                               
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Offline KHAANNN

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1079 on: Tue, 19 May 2015, 09:32:34 »
UPDATE: Fix for Costar and Cherry + Costar stabilizers has been implemented...

The net result of what I did is basically give the top stabilizer upright for Costar stabilizers another 0.15mm of space to work with.

Here is a scale drawing based on LeandreN's drawing and some measuring with a caliper (I had already done this once with my tests, so his pictures and the ones previously in the thread confirmed it).

(Attachment Link)

It happens to turn out that both of these drawings end up matching JD's drawing almost perfectly now.  He said he is pretty happy with his drawing, so that is also a vote of confidence in these cutouts now.

Here are the all 3 drawings superimposed on each other.

Costar Only (updated)
Cherry + Costar (updated)
jdcarpe's cutout (grey)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

I'm probably confused, but, from the pictures, it seems the insert cutouts are pulled back, while they should be pushed just a little bit further?

The wire is on the front of the switch, the cutout is inserted so the large part is looking away, the large part touches the end of the insert, which is the problem, so shouldn't the cutouts pushed away just a bit?

From the outlines, it looks as if they are pulled front instead of being pushed back
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1080 on: Tue, 19 May 2015, 10:29:14 »
Awesome tool!  I just tried it for the GH36, and I have a question.

I see how to rotate cutouts, but how do I rotate 2x cutouts?  For example, the Enter and + switches on a number pad?

I see no change in any version of {h:2},"Enter", {h:2,_r:180},"Enter" or {h:2},{_r:180},"Enter", {_r:180,h:2},"Enter".

Is there a combination that should rotate a 2x vertical cutout so that the top of the switch points to the left?

Thanks in advance!

 - Ron | samwisekoi

The plate builder doesn't do rotation (yet?) which is probably why you're having problems.  I think your best option is to do it mirrored then flip the cut plate over - not sure what options you're using so try this :)

Code: [Select]
["","","","","",""],
["","","","","",""],
[{h:2},"","","","","",""],
[{x:1},"","","","",""],
[{h:2},"","","","","",""],
[{x:1},"",{w:2},"",{w:2},""]

This is not true.  I do not support rotating key clusters (like the thumb cluster of the ergodox).  However rotating the switches and stabilizers independently and together (around its center) it fully supported...  I will reply to Ron to explain...

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1081 on: Tue, 19 May 2015, 10:46:53 »
Awesome tool!  I just tried it for the GH36, and I have a question.

I see how to rotate cutouts, but how do I rotate 2x cutouts?  For example, the Enter and + switches on a number pad?

I see no change in any version of {h:2},"Enter", {h:2,_r:180},"Enter" or {h:2},{_r:180},"Enter", {_r:180,h:2},"Enter".

Is there a combination that should rotate a 2x vertical cutout so that the top of the switch points to the left?

Thanks in advance!

 - Ron | samwisekoi

I see you are using the _r flag to rotate the 'switch' upside down (which actually does nothing because they cutout does not change with 180 rotation.

Here are the types of things you can do:

Additional Features
The following features can be applied by modifying the source copied from the keyboard layout editor. All of these features are applied to individual keys by adding or modifying the object before the key. EG: rotate switch for "Enter" would be done by entering {_r:90},"Enter".
{_t:<0-2>}: Change switch cutout type. Numbers are in the same order as the images. EG: {_t:0},""
{_s:<0-2>}: Change stabilizer cutout type. Numbers are in the same order as the dropdown list. EG: {_s:2},""
{_k:<mm>}: Specify a kerf value for this specific switch/stabilizer cutout which overrides the default. Values are in mm (without the unit). EG: {_k:0.05},""
{_r:<degrees>}: Rotate the switch cutout independent of the stabilizer cutout (assuming there is one). EG: {_r:90},""
{_rs:<degrees>}: Rotate the stabilizer cutout independent of the switch cutout. EG: {_rs:180},""

What does this mean???

So for example, if you have a vertical key {h:2}, it will default to rotating both the switch and the stabilizer by 90 around the center.

Lets say you want the switch to not be rotated and be in the same orientation as the other switches on the board, you can use the {h:2, _r:90} flag.  Which would result in the following:
101141-0

Another option is to rotate the stabilizer independently of the switch.  This is mainly if you want to change the orientation of the stabilizer to face the other way.  So again, with a {h:2} key, you can rotate the stabilizer to face the other way without changing the orientation of the switch with: {h:2, _rs:180}  This would result in:
101143-1

You can of course combine the two to flip the stabilizer cutout as well as rotate the switch by 90.  This would be done with: {h:2, _r:90, _rs:180}  This would result in:
101145-2

Everything I just explained applies to non-vertical switches as well.  Let me know if you have questions.  I may be a bit slow as I am on vacation right now.  :)
« Last Edit: Tue, 19 May 2015, 10:52:26 by swill »

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1082 on: Tue, 19 May 2015, 10:51:41 »
UPDATE: Fix for Costar and Cherry + Costar stabilizers has been implemented...

The net result of what I did is basically give the top stabilizer upright for Costar stabilizers another 0.15mm of space to work with.

Here is a scale drawing based on LeandreN's drawing and some measuring with a caliper (I had already done this once with my tests, so his pictures and the ones previously in the thread confirmed it).

(Attachment Link)

It happens to turn out that both of these drawings end up matching JD's drawing almost perfectly now.  He said he is pretty happy with his drawing, so that is also a vote of confidence in these cutouts now.

Here are the all 3 drawings superimposed on each other.

Costar Only (updated)
Cherry + Costar (updated)
jdcarpe's cutout (grey)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

I'm probably confused, but, from the pictures, it seems the insert cutouts are pulled back, while they should be pushed just a little bit further?

The wire is on the front of the switch, the cutout is inserted so the large part is looking away, the large part touches the end of the insert, which is the problem, so shouldn't the cutouts pushed away just a bit?

From the outlines, it looks as if they are pulled front instead of being pushed back

I think there are some issues with things not clipping in perfectly on 1.6mm.  Not sure about this for sure.  I only have a 1.6mm and it does not feel like it clips in perfectly due to the thickness.  So yes, I think your observations are partially to blame.  I think my fix will make it work with 1.6mm plates as well.

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1083 on: Tue, 19 May 2015, 11:18:29 »
Ah.  Thank you very much!

So to rephrase to ensure I understand, my problem was that I rotated the bilaterally-symmetrical SWITCH cutout 180 degrees (accomplishing nothing) INSIDE the UNROTATED stabilizer cutout.

But what I really wanted to do was leave the switch cutout alone and rotate the STABILIZER cutout.

Testing now...

Yes!  This code:

Code: [Select]
["1","2","3","4","5","6"],
["1","2","3","4","5","6"],
["1","2","3","4","5",{h:2},"6"],
["1","2","3","4","5"],
["1","2","3","4","5",{h:2,_rs:180},"6"],
["1","2",{w:2},"3","5"]

Gives this result:

101150-0

I call that a successful rotation!

Thank you very much!

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my JD45 keyboard.
« Last Edit: Tue, 19 May 2015, 11:21:58 by samwisekoi »
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Online suicidal_orange

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1084 on: Tue, 19 May 2015, 14:41:48 »
So should arbitrary rotations also work?  I tried a complicated split board with parts at 30 and -30 rotation and it just turned out a mess, half of it wasn't even on the plate :))
                               
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1085 on: Tue, 19 May 2015, 19:27:34 »
Ah.  Thank you very much!

So to rephrase to ensure I understand, my problem was that I rotated the bilaterally-symmetrical SWITCH cutout 180 degrees (accomplishing nothing) INSIDE the UNROTATED stabilizer cutout.

But what I really wanted to do was leave the switch cutout alone and rotate the STABILIZER cutout.

Testing now...

Yes!  This code:

Code: [Select]
["1","2","3","4","5","6"],
["1","2","3","4","5","6"],
["1","2","3","4","5",{h:2},"6"],
["1","2","3","4","5"],
["1","2","3","4","5",{h:2,_rs:180},"6"],
["1","2",{w:2},"3","5"]

Gives this result:

(Attachment Link)

I call that a successful rotation!

Thank you very much!

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my JD45 keyboard.
Glad you got it working as you wanted. :)

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1086 on: Tue, 19 May 2015, 19:45:16 »
So should arbitrary rotations also work?  I tried a complicated split board with parts at 30 and -30 rotation and it just turned out a mess, half of it wasn't even on the plate :))
So the switch (and/or stabilizer) can be rotated around its center, but the space it takes up on the plate is not changed by the rotation. So in short. Yes, you can use an arbitrary rotation, but the plate size will not adapt appropriately.

I am looking into adding true rotational key clusters, but that support is not in place yet.

I am in the process of completely rebuilding the tool from scratch, which is why the number if new features recently has been very slow.  This is one of those features I don't really want to design twice.   

In a nutshell, I am removing the CAD engine completely, as well as the majority of the infrastructure complexity. Instead, I am building the export files directly rather than drawing and rendering the cad and then exporting the files.

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1087 on: Tue, 19 May 2015, 19:52:27 »
I decided to get a plate drawn with the swillkb builder, slice it into 3-4 pieces and 3d-print it, kind of like a ghetto custom plate, I'm not sure how rigid it's going to be, but I will soon see

It also seems like a great idea to print them as 5mm thick, and only leave the stab sections empty, to leave them room to latch on

Started printing the first piece now, with costar cutouts, ~1.52mm thick, it was triggered before I got the idea for the 5mm thick plate

If it works, the challenge is to slice the plate into ~4 pieces, my build area is 9"x10" on theory, only the ~6"x~6" center is optimal

During this process, I might also be able to test the cutout dimensions, although, the printer might not be precise enough, I will see soon
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1088 on: Tue, 19 May 2015, 21:01:02 »
I decided to get a plate drawn with the swillkb builder, slice it into 3-4 pieces and 3d-print it, kind of like a ghetto custom plate, I'm not sure how rigid it's going to be, but I will soon see

It also seems like a great idea to print them as 5mm thick, and only leave the stab sections empty, to leave them room to latch on

Started printing the first piece now, with costar cutouts, ~1.52mm thick, it was triggered before I got the idea for the 5mm thick plate

If it works, the challenge is to slice the plate into ~4 pieces, my build area is 9"x10" on theory, only the ~6"x~6" center is optimal

During this process, I might also be able to test the cutout dimensions, although, the printer might not be precise enough, I will see soon
Maybe check with this guy. He had pretty good success using a printer with these.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65189.msg1635168.msg#1635168

He has other posts discussing sizing and precision and such because the printer does not give you perfect precision. I would suggest either contacting him or reviewing his posts in this thread. :)

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1089 on: Tue, 19 May 2015, 22:01:39 »
Maybe check with this guy. He had pretty good success using a printer with these.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65189.msg1635168.msg#1635168

He has other posts discussing sizing and precision and such because the printer does not give you perfect precision. I would suggest either contacting him or reviewing his posts in this thread. :)

I will check the posts, in the meantime, I had great success with my trial; with some simple support cylinder poles added near the stabilisers, this would make a rigid plate

101199-0

I'm thinking of leaving a pyramid in the middle, for the spacebar and the 2 modifiers near it, print it with silver plastic, and print the remaining 2 side sections with black plastic, to create a 2 tone plate, would look great

Can't decide on the stabs yet tho, costars started seeming clumsy even with metal plates

Getting them manufactured is also much much more practical, but in that case, I won't have the opportunity to test and optimise it, the infinity pcb is a bit non-standard, it makes the keyboard lean right, probably from the placement of the usb

Anyway, thanks again for the utility, it enabled me to find a solution to a problem that's been bugging me for some time

I'm still not sure about your stab calculations tho :) - from my trial, the costar only one is perfect, I tested it with a spacebar, but since plastic is soft, I manually removed/cut some portions out, which might have improved things, I could use it as it is, so it passed my trial
« Last Edit: Tue, 19 May 2015, 22:03:54 by KHAANNN »
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Online suicidal_orange

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1090 on: Wed, 20 May 2015, 02:18:32 »
So should arbitrary rotations also work?  I tried a complicated split board with parts at 30 and -30 rotation and it just turned out a mess, half of it wasn't even on the plate :))
So the switch (and/or stabilizer) can be rotated around its center, but the space it takes up on the plate is not changed by the rotation. So in short. Yes, you can use an arbitrary rotation, but the plate size will not adapt appropriately.

I am looking into adding true rotational key clusters, but that support is not in place yet.

I am in the process of completely rebuilding the tool from scratch, which is why the number if new features recently has been very slow.  This is one of those features I don't really want to design twice.   

In a nutshell, I am removing the CAD engine completely, as well as the majority of the infrastructure complexity. Instead, I am building the export files directly rather than drawing and rendering the cad and then exporting the files.
Sounds awesome, should be much quicker?  I can see why you don't want to write the rotation code twice, it's easy to get keys off screen in the layout editor let alone trying to re-render it's code!

Hopefully the rewrite will be done by the time I settle on a design and get it perfectly spaced.  I think you've got a while as I can't even decide what keys I want (been looking at it for about a month) and every time I try to experiment with column stagger in a rotated section (changing y for 5 switch strips ) I do *something* and it rearranges the keys in pairs horizontally in the raw code so I have to start again.  If anyone knows what *something* is please let me know, that would help :)
                               
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Offline go3001

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1091 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 06:53:56 »
Taking a closer look at the output DXFs I'm wondering if the problem is the size of the middle pieces, which the holes must be in the center of. It would be helpful to understand how the width of the middle outline pieces are calculated. I also wonder if there is a minimum distance required for particular hole sizes using particular materials. Perhaps a M2 hole can be 2 mm from the edge in stainless steel, but would need to be 3mm from the edge in Acrylic, etc.

Also, what is the best resource for understanding all the precise measurements of the switch holes, stab holes, distance between them, etc. I see a lot of that is spread out through this thread, and I know Cherry has some measurement inform in their product sheets, but I'm curious if there are good online resources that explain all the variables for different switch types, different keycap sizes, cherry vs. costar stabs, mx and other switches, etc.

Lastly, for those who have built sandwich cases using Swill's tool, what materials did you use, what cutting techniques, how thick were all your plates, and how many layers did you use? Curious to hear what has worked, and also learn from what has not.

Thanks.

I made my sandwich with Swill's builder, 4mm semi-frost, 6mm frost acrylic and my uni's crappy laser cutter. The laser was weak so it had to go over cut lines again for 6mm, here are the results:

4 pieces for 2 boards.
and put together:


As you can see the acrylic edge is 'going inwards', compared to metal plates which were 'professionally cut' (if you live in NZ don't go to HSM). Probably the laser's fault though.
I used M3 10mm standoffs for those hexagons (http://www.ebay.com/itm/261283813262?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT) and the cut dimension is 5.5mm inscribed which fit fine. M3 5mm screws: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111471636269?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=410467517385&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Also thank you Swill for the stabiliser fix!
Edit: Current progress: http://puu.sh/hVchB.jpg  ;D
« Last Edit: Thu, 21 May 2015, 07:04:34 by go3001 »
Filco MJ2 TKL MX red, black/red Vortex doubleshot PBT (main)
Leopold 210TP MX green/brown/blue/black/red/clear, OEM laser-etched PBT (osu/tester/work)
Poker II MX clear, Vortex doubleshot PBT/POM, TEX Acrylic case, white LED (travel)
Custom TKL Gateron brown, white/blue Vortex doubleshot PBT, RGB surround LED (gift)
Custom TKL Gateron blue, RGB surround LED (building)

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1092 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 08:00:13 »
As you can see the acrylic edge is 'going inwards', compared to metal plates which were 'professionally cut' (if you live in NZ don't go to HSM).

I suspect the professional laser cutter adjusted for kerf, so the resulting product will be exactly the size of the dimensions given. I am assuming you didn't add a kerf value for your pieces?  That would result in the situation you are seeing.

Offline derezzed

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1093 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 18:09:06 »
Taking a closer look at the output DXFs I'm wondering if the problem is the size of the middle pieces, which the holes must be in the center of. It would be helpful to understand how the width of the middle outline pieces are calculated. I also wonder if there is a minimum distance required for particular hole sizes using particular materials. Perhaps a M2 hole can be 2 mm from the edge in stainless steel, but would need to be 3mm from the edge in Acrylic, etc.

Also, what is the best resource for understanding all the precise measurements of the switch holes, stab holes, distance between them, etc. I see a lot of that is spread out through this thread, and I know Cherry has some measurement inform in their product sheets, but I'm curious if there are good online resources that explain all the variables for different switch types, different keycap sizes, cherry vs. costar stabs, mx and other switches, etc.

Lastly, for those who have built sandwich cases using Swill's tool, what materials did you use, what cutting techniques, how thick were all your plates, and how many layers did you use? Curious to hear what has worked, and also learn from what has not.

Thanks.

I made my sandwich with Swill's builder, 4mm semi-frost, 6mm frost acrylic and my uni's crappy laser cutter. The laser was weak so it had to go over cut lines again for 6mm, here are the results:
Show Image

4 pieces for 2 boards.
and put together:
Show Image


As you can see the acrylic edge is 'going inwards', compared to metal plates which were 'professionally cut' (if you live in NZ don't go to HSM). Probably the laser's fault though.
I used M3 10mm standoffs for those hexagons (http://www.ebay.com/itm/261283813262?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT) and the cut dimension is 5.5mm inscribed which fit fine. M3 5mm screws: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111471636269?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=410467517385&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Also thank you Swill for the stabiliser fix!
Edit: Current progress: http://puu.sh/hVchB.jpg  ;D

Those screws!  I must know what their chamfer angle is!  Their number!  I must know how many!  That switch plate!  I must know if it is 1.5mm thick!  If not, I must know if you adjusted thickness to account for screw chamfer!

Yours is the first non-Korean custom case I've seen that used countersunk screws.  That's the design element that's been torturing me for my case design.  I thought I would have to get screws with a 100 or 110 degree chamfer to ensure that the screw was holding onto enough of the switch plate but I can't find screws like that anywhere.  I think there's a secret cabal that keeps those screws off the open market.  Did you chamfer the screw holes on the switch plate yourself or did you have the cutter do it?

Offline evera

  • Posts: 35
Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1094 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 20:02:11 »
some more plates

Offline KHAANNN

  • Posts: 1634
Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1095 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 20:43:03 »
some more plates

Nice looking plates, I also enjoy codenaming stuff "Arc"s

Where/How were they produced?
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline go3001

  • Posts: 8
  • Location: New Zealand
  • Pro lurker
Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1096 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 23:43:12 »
Taking a closer look at the output DXFs I'm wondering if the problem is the size of the middle pieces, which the holes must be in the center of. It would be helpful to understand how the width of the middle outline pieces are calculated. I also wonder if there is a minimum distance required for particular hole sizes using particular materials. Perhaps a M2 hole can be 2 mm from the edge in stainless steel, but would need to be 3mm from the edge in Acrylic, etc.

Also, what is the best resource for understanding all the precise measurements of the switch holes, stab holes, distance between them, etc. I see a lot of that is spread out through this thread, and I know Cherry has some measurement inform in their product sheets, but I'm curious if there are good online resources that explain all the variables for different switch types, different keycap sizes, cherry vs. costar stabs, mx and other switches, etc.

Lastly, for those who have built sandwich cases using Swill's tool, what materials did you use, what cutting techniques, how thick were all your plates, and how many layers did you use? Curious to hear what has worked, and also learn from what has not.

Thanks.

I made my sandwich with Swill's builder, 4mm semi-frost, 6mm frost acrylic and my uni's crappy laser cutter. The laser was weak so it had to go over cut lines again for 6mm, here are the results:
Show Image

4 pieces for 2 boards.
and put together:
Show Image


As you can see the acrylic edge is 'going inwards', compared to metal plates which were 'professionally cut' (if you live in NZ don't go to HSM). Probably the laser's fault though.
I used M3 10mm standoffs for those hexagons (http://www.ebay.com/itm/261283813262?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT) and the cut dimension is 5.5mm inscribed which fit fine. M3 5mm screws: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111471636269?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=410467517385&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Also thank you Swill for the stabiliser fix!
Edit: Current progress: http://puu.sh/hVchB.jpg  ;D

Those screws!  I must know what their chamfer angle is!  Their number!  I must know how many!  That switch plate!  I must know if it is 1.5mm thick!  If not, I must know if you adjusted thickness to account for screw chamfer!

Yours is the first non-Korean custom case I've seen that used countersunk screws.  That's the design element that's been torturing me for my case design.  I thought I would have to get screws with a 100 or 110 degree chamfer to ensure that the screw was holding onto enough of the switch plate but I can't find screws like that anywhere.  I think there's a secret cabal that keeps those screws off the open market.  Did you chamfer the screw holes on the switch plate yourself or did you have the cutter do it?

I don't have anything to measure it but I'm assuming 90 degrees? Yes plate is 1.5mm. The hole is just a 5.5mm diameter hole, no chamfer, screw bump thickness is about fingernail so it doesn't bother me at all

As you can see the acrylic edge is 'going inwards', compared to metal plates which were 'professionally cut' (if you live in NZ don't go to HSM).

I suspect the professional laser cutter adjusted for kerf, so the resulting product will be exactly the size of the dimensions given. I am assuming you didn't add a kerf value for your pieces?  That would result in the situation you are seeing.

I see. No I didn't add kerf because I don't have any idea of what value it should be, but it's barely noticeable touching it so it's fine with me.
Filco MJ2 TKL MX red, black/red Vortex doubleshot PBT (main)
Leopold 210TP MX green/brown/blue/black/red/clear, OEM laser-etched PBT (osu/tester/work)
Poker II MX clear, Vortex doubleshot PBT/POM, TEX Acrylic case, white LED (travel)
Custom TKL Gateron brown, white/blue Vortex doubleshot PBT, RGB surround LED (gift)
Custom TKL Gateron blue, RGB surround LED (building)

Offline evera

  • Posts: 35
Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1097 on: Fri, 22 May 2015, 00:30:58 »
some more plates

Nice looking plates, I also enjoy codenaming stuff "Arc"s

Where/How were they produced?

1.5mm clear acrylic from ponoko.com

I paid $50 ($10 materials, $40 services) for 3 plates, 2 back plates and 2 middle pieces on this round. Not a bad deal! They're close by so I just picked it up locally and saved on shipping.

Offline Zustiur

  • Posts: 198
Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1098 on: Fri, 22 May 2015, 23:58:38 »
I'm probably just being dense, but I'm trying to follow Rose's tutorial (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71863.0) to rotate my thumb keys after starting with the plate builder.
Rose says to download the SVG and open that in Inkscape, but I don't see an option for SVG. I only see DXF BRP STP STL. Inkscape only appears to recognize DXF out of those options.
I tried opening the DXF and following the next step, but I don't seem to be able to select any individual line or box in the diagam. I can select the whole diagram or nothing.

Offline shaymdev

  • Posts: 56
  • Location: SLC, UT
Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #1099 on: Sat, 23 May 2015, 00:05:27 »
I tried opening the DXF and following the next step, but I don't seem to be able to select any individual line or box in the diagam. I can select the whole diagram or nothing.
Someone else can chime in about svg, and I haven't used inkscape yet but when I've used the dxf in libreCAD the whole drawing was a single "block" that I had to "explode" into individual lines.  I then had to select multiple lines and make a "block" out of them.

This strategy may or may not work for inkscape, and there might even be a better way. That's just one thing that I ran into and found a way around it.
« Last Edit: Sat, 23 May 2015, 00:07:43 by shaymdev »