Leopold FC660C Vs Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional 2

[Evrycard]

If you had a choice between Leopold FC660C and Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional 2. Which one would you pick and why?

[demik]

hhkb, because it has the best layout.

it looks better. and 660c is ugly as ****.

660c isn't even topre worthy.

for it's size, why not just get an 87u?

[Heliosphere]

Demik will hate me, but having used both I prefer the FC660C (grey dye-sub) because it has dedicated directional keys. Typing on it feels great too.

[crazystu]

I love my FC660C, but I haven't yet tried the HHKB Professional 2.
Arrow keys are probably my most used keys though, and I also use Home/End frequently (which are nicely positioned on the FC660C under the arrows, and look a little painful on the HHKB). Makes it difficult to justify getting a HHKB (would love to try one though)!

[clacktalk]

FC660C feels heavier/sturdier/more solid, but the HHKB's layout will change your life.

I refuse to buy another keyboard without the layout because I'll further myself from perfection. The fn keys (including the arrow keys) are very user friendly, a lot more so than the Poker II, and I only see problem with it if you are playing games that require dedicated arrow keys. For daily use or text editing, I actually find the layout better than one with dedicated arrow keys since I can move my hands/fingers less to get the same amount of stuff done.

HHKB all the way. Or both, with more attention to the HHKB. Also, no to the 87u unless it's a 55g. Even then, no to the 87u 55g if it's between that and a HHKB.

[rowdy]

I've got a HHKB Pro 2, and love it.

If the FC660C (orange keyboard LOL) had been available when I was looking for HHKB, I probably would have gotten one of those instead.

It has taken a while, but I have become used to the arrow keys on the HHKB.  But not the home/end/pg up/pg down and so on, so I stick to using my HHKB on my Mac where I can use Ctrl sequences to do most cursor movements.

[skuko]

FC660C (orange keyboard LOL)

what do you mean orange keyboard? :O

i have not used a HHKB, but i do have the FC660C and i absolutely love it.

i won't even bother with HHKB, since i couldn't even get used to the poker, that's how much i cling to dedicated arrow keys

[rowdy]

FC660C (orange keyboard LOL)

what do you mean orange keyboard? :O

https://www.colorcodehex.com/fc660c/

)

[Keybatant]

If you had a choice between Leopold FC660C and Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional 2. Which one would you pick and why?

I have both of this gems, unfortunately Leo is eating dust at this moment.
Yes, FC660C is metal plate, cursor keys, close to standard layout etc.
But hhkb is not just keyboard, it is a damn addiction...
Joking aside. HHKB - nice looking, great layout, small and light enough to be true "mobile" keyboard.
Also there is another level of typing-drug, hhkb type s 55g (from 87u),
which is in the hands of my wife atm, she "borrowed" it from me while ago, but looks like there was no plan to bring it back, and I can understand her.

[Oobly]

If you had a choice between Leopold FC660C and Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional 2. Which one would you pick and why?

I would pick an FC660C, but it's just my personal choice. There are a few dealbreakers with the HHKB that make it unappealing to me and they happen to be the same things I like on the FC660C:

1. Arrow keys. I need my inverted T and having them on the primary layer in an almost normal position is awesome.
2. Edit key placement. Again, placement of these on HHKB Fn layer is horrible, whereas the one I use most are on the primary layer of FC660C.
3. Plate. HHKB is all plasticky...

The Fn key placement on both is poor, I much prefer to use a thumb to access the Fn layer than pinkie.

Then again, I prefer 62g ErgoClears to Topre switches anyway, so I wouldn't get either of them. 

[flaming_june]

Different strokes for different folks. Everyone has different preferences. I don't need the layout on leopold. I like hhkb better

[Hypersphere]

I have had both, but after trying the HHKB Pro 2, I gave my FC660C away and kept the HHKB. Here are my pros and cons of each:

FC660C Pros: Solid, steel plate, arrow keys for those who want/need them in the primary layer.

FC660C Cons: At the time, there were no replacement keycaps available, and I didn't like the stock caps. The layout was not quite to my liking, and I didn't like the overall asymmetry and aesthetics.

HHKB Pros: True 60% form factor, highly intuitive and efficient layout, beautiful keycaps, overall symmetry and aesthetics.

HHKB Cons: Hollow plasticky sound. Case-mounted switches lack the heavy solidity of plate-mounted switches.

[sorijealut]

The hollow case sounds of my HHKB are imo, one of the best feelings I've tried so far.
It amplifies tactility and I do enjoy the feedback I get throughout the whole case.

Edit:forgot a word

[hwood34]

hhkb, because it has the best layout.

it looks better. and 660c is ugly as ****.

660c isn't even topre worthy.

for it's size, why not just get an 87u?

Don't forget the stupid right shift

[Sygaldry]

Hhkb or bust...

[yomammary]

You can always read this 1 week old thread
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67576.0

[Polymer]

FC660C Pros: Solid, steel plate, arrow keys for those who want/need them in the primary layer.

FC660C Cons: At the time, there were no replacement keycaps available, and I didn't like the stock caps. The layout was not quite to my liking, and I didn't like the overall asymmetry and aesthetics.

HHKB Pros: True 60% form factor, highly intuitive and efficient layout, beautiful keycaps, overall symmetry and aesthetics.

HHKB Cons: Hollow plasticky sound. Case-mounted switches lack the heavy solidity of plate-mounted switches.

The case mounted sound is what people LIKE about the HHKB...It feel is a bit easier on the fingers as well..It is solid but in a different way to a plate...It isn't the same as comparing plate/pcb mounted cherry. 

The part that rocks is the backspace and CTRL..The fn layer is ok...it does make sense in how you use your right pinky to press the fn and the other keys are right there..but it does take some getting used to...I don't know if I'd call that part intuitive...

Outside of disliking Topre the two main complaints of the HHKB are:

Lack of dedicated arrow keys.  Some people can adjust, some can't..If you can't adjust, it is a deal breaker.
Adjusting to going back and forth between a normal keyboard and your HHKB since the backspace (and sometimes the CTRL depending on your keyboard) is in a different location.  This was, for me, the one reason I considered selling my HHKB...if I only used the HHKB, it was fine...but switching back and forth (actually, switching to it was easy..switching to another keyboard was harder) was a pain....and then one day it just clicked and switching became easy....

I will say though...I'm becoming more and more of a fan of variable....I don't think it is as satisfying as the 660c or HHKB...but it is so much easier on my fingers...

[flaming_june]

The hollow case sounds of my HHKB are imo, one of the best feelings I've tried so far.
It amplifies tactility and I do enjoy the feedback I get throughout the whole case.

Edit:forgot a word

I had no idea this was a thing.

[sorijealut]

The hollow case sounds of my HHKB are imo, one of the best feelings I've tried so far.
It amplifies tactility and I do enjoy the feedback I get throughout the whole case.

Edit:forgot a word

I had no idea this was a thing.

Haha yeah I think so. Topre on plastic, especially right on the case, allows for some great percussion imo.

[Novus]

HHKB Type-S because while the Leopold is quite good.
HHKB Type S is just god.
and only your wallet lets you ascend.

[rowdy]

Hhkb or bust...

What size is the bust?  36D??

[supersoul]

hhkb definitely

[Sygaldry]

Hhkb or bust...

What size is the bust?  36D??

34C, sir.

[Fragil1ty]

If you had a choice between Leopold FC660C and Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional 2. Which one would you pick and why?

HHKB Pro 2 - Had one, was amazing, would buy again 10/10.

/thread

[user888]

Just ignore the comments of HHKB owner that didn't own an FC660C. They are biased ;-) What platform are you going to use the keyboard for?

Linux -> HHKB or FC660C
Windows -> HHKB or FC660C
Mac -> FC660C

Reason is that the HHKB designers assumed heavy use of the CTRL key, which (apart from Terminal) on a Mac is not used for much. Command (Windows) and Option (Alt) keys are used much more. I mapped capslock to backspace anyway so it wouldn't be an issue.

If you need cursor keys: FC660C. To find out if you can live without use a tool like Karabiner on Mac (guess there is a similar tool for Win) to map the cursor keys like the diamond on the HHKB. I couldn't adapt quick enough for my likening: kept making mistakes.

If you need a custom controller:-> HHKB. There isn't one available for the FC660C yet.

The FC660C's layout sure looks a bit ought. The ins/del keys... what were they thinking (can be fixed by mapping to home/end or even copy/past if you want). The right shift: same size as the left shift. Keys: there are FC660C available with PBT keys too and I can confirm a HHKB key set fits perfectly. See my post https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67474.0 for pictures (don't let the title misled you).

Bottom line: both are great choices and both are not perfect. If the HHKB had 1.25 ctrl/alt/win modifiers it was better. If the FC660C didn't had the isolated ins/del keys it was better too. If they both offered full programmability they were perfect.

Note: I haven't owned an HHKB so you should probably dismiss my arguments too as I could be biased too ;-)

[Ludovician]

I've wondered for a while what the reasoning is for ins/del there. I can understand delete, I use that sometimes. I also use home/end/pgup/pgdown fairly often while writing code. I can't recall the last time I used insert.

I know it's probably for something that I simply don't do, can anybody enlighten me please?

[rowdy]

Hhkb or bust...

What size is the bust?  36D??

34C, sir.

I'd accept bust

[jalaj]

I've wondered for a while what the reasoning is for ins/del there. I can understand delete, I use that sometimes. I also use home/end/pgup/pgdown fairly often while writing code. I can't recall the last time I used insert.

I know it's probably for something that I simply don't do, can anybody enlighten me please?

ctrl + alt + ins sends a ctrl + alt + del command to a VMware guest OS

[ideus]

Hhkb or bust...

What size is the bust?  36D??

34C, sir.

I'd accept bust

I became interested in this debate, suddenly,

[Bucake]

i badly wanted a HHKB Pro JP Type-S until i realised that HHKBs don't have plates
i just can't stand any flexing anymore.
i'm probably going for the Realforce 87U, rather than the Leopold FC660C,
because the "silly" layout of the (right side of the) 660C is a turn-off for me.

[ideus]

i badly wanted a HHKB Pro JP Type-S until i realised that HHKBs don't have plates
i just can't stand any flexing anymore.
i'm probably going for the Realforce 87U, rather than the Leopold FC660C,
because the "silly" layout of the (right side of the) 660C is a turn-off for me.

It may not look well and symmetric but it works great.

[demik]

i badly wanted a HHKB Pro JP Type-S until i realised that HHKBs don't have plates
i just can't stand any flexing anymore.
i'm probably going for the Realforce 87U, rather than the Leopold FC660C,
because the "silly" layout of the (right side of the) 660C is a turn-off for me.

well, hhkb are case mounted.. how hard do you hit your keys that you'll make the whole thing flex?

either way, 87u is also a great choice.

[spiceBar]

The FC660C is much better in my opinion.

The HHKB's layout is a nightmare. The Fn key has to be pressed with the right pinky, and you have to use it all the time, as the arrows are not directly accessible. If you have to use the Fn layer all the time, then at least Fn key should be located in a place where it can be activated by a thumb.

The location of the Home and End keys makes them really hard to reach. I use them all the time and they must also be pressed in combination with Fn. So you put your pinky to the right of the Shift key and you have to reach the K key. Maybe it's just me, but after a while it becomes tiring and almost painful. If you have big hands, maybe it's not a problem.

Clearly, some people love the HHKB's layout, and they want you to love it, too. They are very vocal about it.

Well I don't like it. It sucks.

The FC660C's layout is much more natural and easy to use. It has arrow keys, and the Fn key can be relocated to the left or the right of the keyboard. I put it on the left.

Some people say that they don't like the look of the FC660C because of the right side. At first glance, it seems that there are just two keys (Insert and Delete) hanging there, and that the empty space could have better been used. But when you use the keyboard, you realize that this empty space is great because it gives tactile clues. When all the keys are grouped together, it's harder to tell which is which just by touch.

Your fingers don't see. If you judge a keyboard by its look, you are mistaken.

[Sygaldry]

The FC660C is much better in my opinion.

The HHKB's layout is a nightmare. The Fn key has to be pressed with the right pinky, and you have to use it all the time, as the arrows are not directly accessible. If you have to use the Fn layer all the time, then at least Fn key should be located in a place where it can be activated by a thumb.

The location of the Home and End keys makes them really hard to reach. I use them all the time and they must also be pressed in combination with Fn. So you put your pinky to the right of the Shift key and you have to reach the K key. Maybe it's just me, but after a while it becomes tiring and almost painful. If you have big hands, maybe it's not a problem.

Clearly, some people love the HHKB's layout, and they want you to love it, too. They are very vocal about it.

Well I don't like it. It sucks.

The FC660C's layout is much more natural and easy to use. It has arrow keys, and the Fn key can be relocated to the left or the right of the keyboard. I put it on the left.

Some people say that they don't like the look of the FC660C because of the right side. At first glance, it seems that there are just two keys (Insert and Delete) hanging there, and that the empty space could have better been used. But when you use the keyboard, you realize that this empty space is great because it gives tactile clues. When all the keys are grouped together, it's harder to tell which is which just by touch.

Your fingers don't see. If you judge a keyboard by its look, you are mistaken.

We're no more vocal about the HHKB than you are about the FC660C, sir.

[Heliosphere]

The FC660C is much better in my opinion.

The HHKB's layout is a nightmare. The Fn key has to be pressed with the right pinky, and you have to use it all the time, as the arrows are not directly accessible. If you have to use the Fn layer all the time, then at least Fn key should be located in a place where it can be activated by a thumb.

The location of the Home and End keys makes them really hard to reach. I use them all the time and they must also be pressed in combination with Fn. So you put your pinky to the right of the Shift key and you have to reach the K key. Maybe it's just me, but after a while it becomes tiring and almost painful. If you have big hands, maybe it's not a problem.

Clearly, some people love the HHKB's layout, and they want you to love it, too. They are very vocal about it.

Well I don't like it. It sucks.

The FC660C's layout is much more natural and easy to use. It has arrow keys, and the Fn key can be relocated to the left or the right of the keyboard. I put it on the left.

Some people say that they don't like the look of the FC660C because of the right side. At first glance, it seems that there are just two keys (Insert and Delete) hanging there, and that the empty space could have better been used. But when you use the keyboard, you realize that this empty space is great because it gives tactile clues. When all the keys are grouped together, it's harder to tell which is which just by touch.

Your fingers don't see. If you judge a keyboard by its look, you are mistaken.

I agree with spiceBar on this. I had a pair of HHKBs and I did not like the layout. The pinky action required for the Fn is bothersome and tiring when utilizing directionals or PgUp/Dn, which I use fairly often. Used the HHKBs for a 3 months and still did not like it, but I did like the feel of Topre. Sold the keyboards to people who might appreciate them more than I did.

The FC660C's inclusion of the directionals is very handy, and using PgUp/Dn is easier. I thought the 660's layout looked unusual but I grew to like its practicality.

[Lunatique]

The FC660C is much better in my opinion.

The HHKB's layout is a nightmare. The Fn key has to be pressed with the right pinky, and you have to use it all the time, as the arrows are not directly accessible. If you have to use the Fn layer all the time, then at least Fn key should be located in a place where it can be activated by a thumb.

The location of the Home and End keys makes them really hard to reach. I use them all the time and they must also be pressed in combination with Fn. So you put your pinky to the right of the Shift key and you have to reach the K key. Maybe it's just me, but after a while it becomes tiring and almost painful. If you have big hands, maybe it's not a problem.

Clearly, some people love the HHKB's layout, and they want you to love it, too. They are very vocal about it.

Well I don't like it. It sucks.

The FC660C's layout is much more natural and easy to use. It has arrow keys, and the Fn key can be relocated to the left or the right of the keyboard. I put it on the left.

Some people say that they don't like the look of the FC660C because of the right side. At first glance, it seems that there are just two keys (Insert and Delete) hanging there, and that the empty space could have better been used. But when you use the keyboard, you realize that this empty space is great because it gives tactile clues. When all the keys are grouped together, it's harder to tell which is which just by touch.

Your fingers don't see. If you judge a keyboard by its look, you are mistaken.

Exactly how I feel too. Love my FC660C, and will never bother with a HHKB, even if one was given to me as a gift. I'd just turn around and sell it to one of the HHKB fanboys.

[Polymer]

i badly wanted a HHKB Pro JP Type-S until i realised that HHKBs don't have plates
i just can't stand any flexing anymore.
i'm probably going for the Realforce 87U, rather than the Leopold FC660C,
because the "silly" layout of the (right side of the) 660C is a turn-off for me.

Sounds like you haven't used it before...

The HHKB not having is plate is not the same as when Cherry MX does not have a plate.  It will be solid but have a warmer sound/feel vs. the plate of a Realforce/660C. 

I don't like PCB mounted Cherry either, but the feel of the HHKB is very good...the 660c is very good as well though.

The main consideration is the layout...If you feel you'll need dedicated arrow keys, the HHKB is NOT for you..the 660c is a good compromise.  If you need the pgu/pgd/end, etc a lot then the HHKB layout is probably not for you although some people have adjusted very well and find it is just as quick/easy as having dedicated keys...

[spiceBar]

The FC660C is much better in my opinion.

The HHKB's layout is a nightmare. The Fn key has to be pressed with the right pinky, and you have to use it all the time, as the arrows are not directly accessible. If you have to use the Fn layer all the time, then at least Fn key should be located in a place where it can be activated by a thumb.

The location of the Home and End keys makes them really hard to reach. I use them all the time and they must also be pressed in combination with Fn. So you put your pinky to the right of the Shift key and you have to reach the K key. Maybe it's just me, but after a while it becomes tiring and almost painful. If you have big hands, maybe it's not a problem.

Clearly, some people love the HHKB's layout, and they want you to love it, too. They are very vocal about it.

Well I don't like it. It sucks.

The FC660C's layout is much more natural and easy to use. It has arrow keys, and the Fn key can be relocated to the left or the right of the keyboard. I put it on the left.

Some people say that they don't like the look of the FC660C because of the right side. At first glance, it seems that there are just two keys (Insert and Delete) hanging there, and that the empty space could have better been used. But when you use the keyboard, you realize that this empty space is great because it gives tactile clues. When all the keys are grouped together, it's harder to tell which is which just by touch.

Your fingers don't see. If you judge a keyboard by its look, you are mistaken.

We're no more vocal about the HHKB than you are about the FC660C, sir.

Really? I don't have "FC660C elite" in my signature for example. I don't even use my FC660C every day.

I own both the FC660C and the HHKB Type-S. What about you?

[Keybatant]

The HHKB's layout is a nightmare. The Fn key has to be pressed with the right pinky, and you have to use it all the time, as the arrows are not directly accessible. If you have to use the Fn layer all the time, then at least Fn key should be located in a place where it can be activated by a thumb.

And it is, you just need to play with dip switches. Then you can locate FN on the left diamond key, which just by "accident" is accessible by a thumb...

Exactly how I feel too. Love my FC660C, and will never bother with a HHKB, even if one was given to me as a gift. I'd just turn around and sell it to one of the HHKB fanboys.

And who sounds like fanboy now?

Honestly, both HHK and FC660c are good keyboards but at the end of the day Leo just have more flaws:
No information about dip switches, not even on the box, you need to visit net to get those info. But is only 4 of them so is not too hard to learn them, but always. HHKB got this info on the back.
Switching capslock with control on Fc660c is killing red led light, which make sense. But when you look on this control key with small window for it, you just have this strange feeling...
Some key combination on Leo just don't work, famous Ctrl+Shift+Esc command for taskmanager. Also, maybe it is just me, but I had problems to get fn + arrow for PgUp/PgDn working on Mac (I'm using 4 systems atm Win/Lin/FreeBSD/Mac). Yes I know, I can use different combinations, but still.
Wobbling keys (yes, you can use spiceBar tutorial to silent/kill it) that you can't replace/customize, well not all of them...
And, then, layout. To get to this nice FN+ arrow godly combination on Leo (same as Del key), I need to move my entire arm. And as you can guess, I'm lazy and I don't like to do so...
You can like or hate layout on HHKB, is absolutely understandable. Has no metal plate, is expensive and it can feel plastic for many. But in my opinion is just better product than FC660c.

[spiceBar]

The HHKB's layout is a nightmare. The Fn key has to be pressed with the right pinky, and you have to use it all the time, as the arrows are not directly accessible. If you have to use the Fn layer all the time, then at least Fn key should be located in a place where it can be activated by a thumb.

And it is, you just need to play with dip switches. Then you can locate FN on the left diamond key, which just by "accident" is accessible by a thumb...

Well... You can also press the default Fn key with a thumb, I guess...

What I meant is this: when the arrows are on a second layer, it's better if you can access them by pressing the Fn key with the thumb of the same hand.

It was one of the most basic design principles for the SpaceFN and GuiFN layouts:
  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51069.0
  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57723.0

When I use my HHKB, I always use it with either SpaceFN or GuiFN. I can do that because mine is equipped with a replacement control board made by Hasu that turns the HHKB into a fully programmable one. The firmware also allows to use the default HHKB layout, but I have given up on this layout. Reaching Home and End is too uncomfortable.

The FC660C represents a middle point between a true 60% and a TKL, and it's easy to start using it.

I don't understand what you mean by "yes, you can use spiceBar tutorial to silent/kill it".

[Keybatant]

Well... You can also press the default Fn key with a thumb, I guess...

Which don't make sense in home-row based layout isn't?

I don't understand what you mean by "yes, you can use spiceBar tutorial to silent/kill it".

Fc660c keys wobble alot after few days/weeks of use, but this can be sorted by apply silencing mod.
Is easy just to show the flaw, but good habit is also show that there is a solution...

[Taeyoung Koh]

HHKB Pro2 type-s

Leopold's FC series are good but that feeling of gusset is sucks when I stroke on it.

So I sold my old FC.

And now I used to use HHKB Pro2 type-s.

[bowji]

Out of curiosity and to help those with a dilemma between the two... does the 660c have a different dome weight?
IIRC I read a review here stating the domes on the 660c are between 45g and 55g even though it is advertised as 45g.
I dont own a HHKB, but the HHKB domes felt lighter than my 660c when I tried a displayed model (initially thought it was due to age). However, I also had the chance to compare my 660c to a new novatouch side by side and the 660c felt heavier when they are both advertised as 45g. From my limited experience the 660c felt a bit heavier than a HHKB but lighter than a Realforce 55g.

So those who currently own both HHKB and 660c, do you feel a difference in switch weight between the two boards?

[Keybatant]

They are different kind of animals, maybe that's why I'm keeping both still 
For me Leo have "heavier" like feeling compare to HHKB, very close to 87u 55.
I think the metal plate is making the difference, but I wouldn't guard this argument for long.
Comparing Novatouch and FC660c can be tricky one.
I was using it with default ABS keys vs denser PBT on Leo, so probably you will need to ask someone who managed to replace keys on CM.

[Sencha]

Both amazing. I'm back to leaning towards the fc660c though.

[Lunatique]

And who sounds like fanboy now?

Honestly, both HHK and FC660c are good keyboards but at the end of the day Leo just have more flaws:
No information about dip switches, not even on the box, you need to visit net to get those info. But is only 4 of them so is not too hard to learn them, but always. HHKB got this info on the back.
Switching capslock with control on Fc660c is killing red led light, which make sense. But when you look on this control key with small window for it, you just have this strange feeling...
Some key combination on Leo just don't work, famous Ctrl+Shift+Esc command for taskmanager. Also, maybe it is just me, but I had problems to get fn + arrow for PgUp/PgDn working on Mac (I'm using 4 systems atm Win/Lin/FreeBSD/Mac). Yes I know, I can use different combinations, but still.
Wobbling keys (yes, you can use spiceBar tutorial to silent/kill it) that you can't replace/customize, well not all of them...
And, then, layout. To get to this nice FN+ arrow godly combination on Leo (same as Del key), I need to move my entire arm. And as you can guess, I'm lazy and I don't like to do so...
You can like or hate layout on HHKB, is absolutely understandable. Has no metal plate, is expensive and it can feel plastic for many. But in my opinion is just better product than FC660c.

I don't really participate in or like fanboy behavior. When I post my opinions in forums, it's for the benefit of informing others who might be trying to make a decision about a purchase. The post from spiceBar I quoted pretty much described every single reason why I prefer the Leopold FC660C over the HHKB series of keyboards, and I just wanted to sound off and let others know there's one more person who feels the same way spiceBar does about those two keyboards.

When I read these types of threads, I can't help but think it would be great if we could all just describe the differences between keyboards and let the people who are making decisions make their own choices, and leave hyperbole out as much as possible. Truth is, none of these keyboards "suck" (although a particular ergonomic or build quality issue might actually kind of suck). A product that truly sucks overall would not have any kind of a following in a community of discerning customers--many who are experts themselves that can design and build and modify keyboards at both the hardware to software level.

[Polymer]

They are different kind of animals, maybe that's why I'm keeping both still 
For me Leo have "heavier" like feeling compare to HHKB, very close to 87u 55.
I think the metal plate is making the difference, but I wouldn't guard this argument for long.
Comparing Novatouch and FC660c can be tricky one.
I was using it with default ABS keys vs denser PBT on Leo, so probably you will need to ask someone who managed to replace keys on CM.

I think the later releases of the 660c seemed heavier than the earlier ones...But both feel heavier than RF45g IMO.  Some basic testing I did showed that as well..they take slightly more weight than the 45g on a RF but less than the 55g on a RF...

[spiceBar]

They are different kind of animals, maybe that's why I'm keeping both still 
For me Leo have "heavier" like feeling compare to HHKB, very close to 87u 55.
I think the metal plate is making the difference, but I wouldn't guard this argument for long.
Comparing Novatouch and FC660c can be tricky one.
I was using it with default ABS keys vs denser PBT on Leo, so probably you will need to ask someone who managed to replace keys on CM.

I think the later releases of the 660c seemed heavier than the earlier ones...But both feel heavier than RF45g IMO.  Some basic testing I did showed that as well..they take slightly more weight than the 45g on a RF but less than the 55g on a RF...

With a RF87U, a Novatouch, a FC660C and an HHKB Type-S in front of me, here is what I find:
- The heaviest is the HHKB Type-S
- Then comes the Novatouch
- Then the FC660C and the RF87U, which feel about the same, except for the lightest keys on the RF.

The ESC key on my RF (it's supposed to be 55g) is only marginally heavier than the keys on the HHKB. I know it's not supposed to be that way, but I have always noticed that my HHKB was surprisingly heavy for a 45g Topre.

My FC660C has always been on the lighter side. From what I have heard, it should not be the case. But it's definitely lighter than the HHKB, by a good margin.

I guess it's all due to the difficulty of producing rubber domes that are all consistent in strength.

In the end, it does not make a lot of difference. They feel similar enough that it does not matter when I use them.

[rjradical]

For me it came down to availability. The HHKB is available in the states through Elite KeyBoards and the FC660C is only available on ebay.
If anything went wrong with the board (not saying it would) I think it is easier to go through Elite Keyboards then the ebay seller because it would have to be shipped over seas (by me) for repair.

I was surprised on how quickly i got use to the layout of the HHKB and yes the arrow keys can sometimes be missed.

[spiceBar]

For me it came down to availability. The HHKB is available in the states through Elite KeyBoards and the FC660C is only available on ebay.
If anything went wrong with the board (not saying it would) I think it is easier to go through Elite Keyboards then the ebay seller because it would have to be shipped over seas (by me) for repair.

I was surprised on how quickly i got use to the layout of the HHKB and yes the arrow keys can sometimes be missed.

I have purchased my FC660C from ElikeKeyboards.

They stopped selling it a few months ago, I have no idea why.