Ducky Shine 4 vs. Corsair Vengeance K70

[Art of Payce]

Hey Geekhack, help me decide on a board?

I'm going MX Reds with 0.4mm 50A O-rings. I'm also replacing alphabets A to Z with KBC Semi-Clear Blanks (OEM). I need LEDs for per-key-lighting. I prefer Ducky's on-board memory for lighting profiles. Don't really want to deal with extra software. (Is Corsair software any good?) I can live without macros, but it's only a $20 increase for this feature, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm assuming both boards have OEM keycap profiles. Can anyone confirm? I'm aware of the hard-to-replace non-standard bottom row on the K70, but that's about it. Also, can anyone speak to durability? I assume the Shine 4's build quality is better (3.00 lbs according to Mechanicalkeyboards.com). How much does the K70 weigh? Should I comfortably assume that most K70s in circulation have their flaws fixed (dying LEDs, keypress errors)?

Muchas gracias, in advance.

[Merranza]

Hey Geekhack, help me decide on a board?

I'm going MX Reds with 0.4mm 50A O-rings. I'm also replacing alphabets A to Z with KBC Semi-Clear Blanks (OEM). I need LEDs for per-key-lighting. I prefer Ducky's on-board memory for lighting profiles. Don't really want to deal with extra software. (Is Corsair software any good?) I can live without macros, but it's only a $20 increase for this feature, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm assuming both boards have OEM keycap profiles. Can anyone confirm? I'm aware of the hard-to-replace non-standard bottom row on the K70, but that's about it. Also, can anyone speak to durability? I assume the Shine 4's build quality is better (3.00 lbs according to Mechanicalkeyboards.com). How much does the K70 weigh? Should I comfortably assume that most K70s in circulation have their flaws fixed (dying LEDs, keypress errors)?

Muchas gracias, in advance.

Got a K70 RGB with MX Reds and it's pretty amazing. I had to exchange my first K70 RGB because one key had ping but I'm also pretty picky on my pc parts. My current keyboard is very solid, nice clack with my keypresses and the aluminum plate/overall build is really remarkable.

Can't speak for Ducky as I've never owned one. If you go Corsair's route though, I strongly suggest spending the extra money to get an RGB version even if you weren't aiming for an RGB keyboard. Like you stated in your post, dying LEDs on the non RGB version hasn't been fixed from what I know. They changed the concept with the RGB version by putting the LEDs under the switch protecting them from electrostatic discharge (which is the reason why so many K70 LEDs have died). Very few people reported problem with their K70 RGB in that matter. So stay away from the non RGB K70 version.

Corsair's software has been quite hellish up to now. Lots of bug, very unintuitive profiles building. The software is probably one of the most powerful in terms of possibilities and control but for now, there's still some work to be done on it. Also, be aware up to now, the K70 RGB can only display 512 colors even if 16.8M are advertised on the products specs sheet. All of these are currently being worked on with an upcoming patch but it's pretty evident Corsair rushed its K70 RGB to the market leading to all these problems. Availability is also a concern (currently mostly for brown switches but since you're looking for reds, they're a bit easier to find for now).

So in short, the hardware is simply amazing, the software is not so good for now but is being worked on.

If you have anymore questions, do not hesitate to ask.

[snipars]

i wouldn't say either of those keyboards are a particularly great purchase

[qwack]

They changed the concept with the RGB version by putting the LEDs under the switch protecting them from electrostatic discharge (which is the reason why so many K70 LEDs have died).

This has to be the lamest excuse given by a company for a crappy product. Please :/

I do not own either of these keyboards but based on feedback alone I'd say go for a Ducky, by all means (although there are other good choices, for instance a WASD Code). Yes, OEM profile keycaps on both.

[falkentyne]

Can't speak for Ducky as I've never owned one. If you go Corsair's route though, I strongly suggest spending the extra money to get an RGB version even if you weren't aiming for an RGB keyboard. Like you stated in your post, dying LEDs on the non RGB version hasn't been fixed from what I know. They changed the concept with the RGB version by putting the LEDs under the switch protecting them from electrostatic discharge (which is the reason why so many K70 LEDs have died). Very few people reported problem with their K70 RGB in that matter. So stay away from the non RGB K70 version.

Someone on their forums found out it was NOT electrostatic discharge that was killing the LED's at all.  It was voltages being completely out of specification when the LED's were toggled off or the system was in standby or being rebooted, etc.  There was a forum post explaining that.  The LED's had a voltage range tolerance and the standby voltage was almost DOUBLE what the LEDs were rated for.

[Merranza]

Can't speak for Ducky as I've never owned one. If you go Corsair's route though, I strongly suggest spending the extra money to get an RGB version even if you weren't aiming for an RGB keyboard. Like you stated in your post, dying LEDs on the non RGB version hasn't been fixed from what I know. They changed the concept with the RGB version by putting the LEDs under the switch protecting them from electrostatic discharge (which is the reason why so many K70 LEDs have died). Very few people reported problem with their K70 RGB in that matter. So stay away from the non RGB K70 version.

Someone on their forums found out it was NOT electrostatic discharge that was killing the LED's at all.  It was voltages being completely out of specification when the LED's were toggled off or the system was in standby or being rebooted, etc.  There was a forum post explaining that.  The LED's had a voltage range tolerance and the standby voltage was almost DOUBLE what the LEDs were rated for.

Thank you for the clarification

[Art of Payce]

Yes, thanks for that clarification, falkentyne.

If you have anymore questions, do not hesitate to ask.

Thanks for all the info, Merranza! That was really helpful. I was only considering the RGB for sure. Sad to hear about the software, but honestly, even if it's a hassle, I don't see myself fiddling around with it a lot. I had one other question for now: Do you get dedicated white LED output or is it a combination of a bunch of LED colors (i.e. ROYGBIV)? Weird question, but I'm wondering. Again, thanks for your input.

i wouldn't say either of those keyboards are a particularly great purchase

Maybe you're in a rush, snipars, but could you share your reasons why you think that? I appreciate any criticisms on products that I will spend money on, heh.

I do not own either of these keyboards but based on feedback alone I'd say go for a Ducky, by all means (although there are other good choices, for instance a WASD Code). Yes, OEM profile keycaps on both.

Thanks for the confirmation on the keycap profiles, qwack. You mentioned the Code... Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to have per-key lighting, which I forgot to mention that I need. (Hey everybody, I need per-key lighting.) Also, I prefer a dedicated Fn without losing my right-click menu key. I might still consider it for the minimalist design, media key placement, and MX Greens/Clears, but after I feel out a switch sampler coming in next week.

I'm really feeling the dual/multi-LED options on the Shine 4 and K70. I intend to split my alphabet into two different color zones and turn off or dim the rest of the non-alphabetical keys. I like Ducky's dedicated Calculator key too. That might be a strong decisive factor.  But that horse spacebar needs to go...

[falkentyne]

Can't speak for Ducky as I've never owned one. If you go Corsair's route though, I strongly suggest spending the extra money to get an RGB version even if you weren't aiming for an RGB keyboard. Like you stated in your post, dying LEDs on the non RGB version hasn't been fixed from what I know. They changed the concept with the RGB version by putting the LEDs under the switch protecting them from electrostatic discharge (which is the reason why so many K70 LEDs have died). Very few people reported problem with their K70 RGB in that matter. So stay away from the non RGB K70 version.

Someone on their forums found out it was NOT electrostatic discharge that was killing the LED's at all.  It was voltages being completely out of specification when the LED's were toggled off or the system was in standby or being rebooted, etc.  There was a forum post explaining that.  The LED's had a voltage range tolerance and the standby voltage was almost DOUBLE what the LEDs were rated for.

Thank you for the clarification

Remember not to quote me on that.
I only saw what someone posted on corsair forums.  and even though his voltage observations were true, I don't know if anyone determined for SURE if THAT Was truly killing the LED's.  It wasn't 'standard' voltage (like 5v going into 3.3v)..it was something like, -4.8v when the voltage was supposed to be something like...-2.7 (yes, negative voltages...w.e. they are.....).you have to find the post for yourself, though

[snipars]

i wouldn't say either of those keyboards are a particularly great purchase

Maybe you're in a rush, snipars, but could you share your reasons why you think that? I appreciate any criticisms on products that I will spend money on, heh.

 
 
They're both overpriced keyboards, the ducky is decent because of the good build quality and standard keycap spacing, but the k70's stock keycaps are really bad in my experience and not easily replaceable with a better set

[Art of Payce]

They're both overpriced keyboards, the ducky is decent because of the good build quality and standard keycap spacing, but the k70's stock keycaps are really bad in my experience and not easily replaceable with a better set

I see your point. How do you feel about the backlighting though? Is it a core feature in your daily driver? For my intents and purposes, it's as important as getting the right switch (trying a sampler next week). When it comes to per-key lighting, I daresay there are not many better options at full-size. I can think of Leopold FC900R, CM QF Rapid-i, and well, the Shine 3 which is the same price as the 4 but one less LED color. Any others? Does the Code V2 even have per-key lighting?

[snipars]

They're both overpriced keyboards, the ducky is decent because of the good build quality and standard keycap spacing, but the k70's stock keycaps are really bad in my experience and not easily replaceable with a better set

I see your point. How do you feel about the backlighting though? Is it a core feature in your daily driver? For my intents and purposes, it's as important as getting the right switch (trying a sampler next week). When it comes to per-key lighting, I daresay there are not many better options at full-size. I can think of Leopold FC900R, CM QF Rapid-i, and well, the Shine 3 which is the same price as the 4 but one less LED color. Any others? Does the Code V2 even have per-key lighting?

Most would agree that lighting isn't nearly as important as something with good switches and quality. my main keyboard has white LEDs and i use daydream colour changers, small plastic inserts that go over the LEDs and let me change the colour

[Lastpilot]

If it's between those two, I'd get the Ducky. And if you wanna save money, don't be afraid to get a used Ducky, they hold up pretty well.

Example: Here's a Ducky Shine 2 that I took pictures of last fall. SHINE 2! And you can see that the keycaps still look brand new.

More

[Oobly]

Out of those 2 I'd definitely go with the Ducky.

Standard layout / keycap sizes, better build quality and component quality, no Corsair software, better stock keycaps (I know you're replacing the alphas, but I'm sure you still want the mods to feel nice).

[hwood34]

Yep, ducky for pretty much all the reasons above. And I wouldn't say the Shine's are really overpriced snipar, they're pretty much on point with similar boards.

[Lastpilot]

Yep, ducky for pretty much all the reasons above. And I wouldn't say the Shine's are really overpriced snipar, they're pretty much on point with similar boards.

Yes, also remember that Ducky has a removable USB cord, something that many manufacturers avoid to lower costs. :]

[Art of Payce]

Very nice photos, Lastpilot. I'll definitely consider buying used. Keeping my eyes peeled for Shine 4s on sale in the Classifieds or eBay.

Definitely, Oobly, definitely. I like the stock Shine 4 keycaps.

Thanks hwood34 for your vote!

Most would agree that lighting isn't nearly as important as something with good switches and quality. my main keyboard has white LEDs and i use daydream colour changers, small plastic inserts that go over the LEDs and let me change the colour

Indeed, most would probably agree about that. In my case, though, I need both---one just as much as the other. Thick, opaque PBT keyboards and such are appealing to me, but I'm not wannabe-typing-purist enough for that. Practically speaking, I just need excellent visibility of the alphabet and satisfying keypresses for my language learning endeavors.

Thanks for mentioning LED color changers! They're quite the convenient mod albeit a bit scarce among vendors. I just might have to try some (if the price is right). I love the concept and seemingly clean end-result. However, I'm a little disappointed that they're not fully translucent. From what I've seen, they're semi-clear or slightly opaque which means a lower luminosity for at least some colors. Then again... I might want to enhance just the color depth of my stock LEDs and dim them. More great options... One other concern I have is the attachment of these things. Do they come into contact with the keycap when bottoming out? A Redditor reported an issue with a loose-fitting color changer:

Sometimes when I keep on using the same button while playing a game the color changer comes out of the small socket and restricts me from pressing the button, so I would have to press it a couple of times in a row for it to go back into the socket and use the key. I'm thinking about removing it because of this reason because it sucks not being able to enter a command for a game without pressing the key multiple times...

[qwack]

Thick, opaque PBT keyboards and such are appealing to me, but I'm not wannabe-typing-purist enough for that. Practically speaking, I just need excellent visibility of the alphabet and satisfying keypresses for my language learning endeavors.

Just two things in passing :

- you do not need to be a "typing purist" to enjoy the goodness of thick PBT caps
- and in fact, being a "typing purist" makes it unnecessary to watch your keyboard, so "excellent visibility of the alphabet" is less of a requirement.

There is nothing wrong with wanting special aesthetic features on a keyboard, but as far as practicality is concerned, getting to know your layout well enough to not have to watch where you type (there are free lessons on the web for that) may be much easier than finding a keyboard with special lighting features that are supposed to help you type.

[Art of Payce]

There is nothing wrong with wanting special aesthetic features on a keyboard, but as far as practicality is concerned, getting to know your layout well enough to not have to watch where you type (there are free lessons on the web for that) may be much easier than finding a keyboard with special lighting features that are supposed to help you type.

You make an excellent point, qwack. I'm just delaying the inevitable work of memorizing my layout, a much more difficult (and surely, more rewarding?) path. (This is for a second language, by the way.) I want everything quick and easy. I've used technology as an excuse to do the hard non-scale-able work of mind and muscle memorization. Thanks for laying out your comments. I will consider it as I buy the Shine 4. Haha, just kidding. I'll think about it some more. Still waiting on my switch tester anyway.

[werear]

I just want to know if the Ducky keyboard has input problem at left hand area for gaming. I've read a local review that reported key+shift problem in its firmware and hasn't fixed.