[IC] Alps DCS Infinity mods kit

[CPTBadAss]

0/10 on the glider logos. Still buying the kit. Would still love to see blanks or *anything* but a Go/Tic Tac Toe/Glider logo.

[njbair]

0/10 on the glider logos. Still buying the kit. Would still love to see blanks or *anything* but a Go/Tic Tac Toe/Glider logo.

Would one 1U blank and one 1.25U blank be enough? That way, whether you're OK with either the Alps logo or the Glider, you can use two of those and the one blank to cover all the extra bottom row keys. Or instead of blanks, use stars if that's what people prefer. But I think a single third-style key in each size would be enough.

[CPTBadAss]

Yes, 1U and 1.25U would be fine .

But seriously? Please don't change the icons and graphics based on just me. If you all are into the Glider logo, go with that. I'm just being picky. Like I said I'll back this no matter what.

[njbair]

Yes, 1U and 1.25U would be fine .

But seriously? Please don't change the icons and graphics based on just me. If you all are into the Glider logo, go with that. I'm just being picky. Like I said I'll back this no matter what.

Again, I don't really have any influence here.

That said, JD likes the non-grid, dotted version, and that's his baby, so it will probably stay that way. Nubs is sponsoring the Alps logo, and he's OK with the circle around it, and it seems that most people like it better. I'm OK with the star or blanks (I'd prefer blanks, I think you do too, CPT). So when Badwrench comes around I think we should propose a revision with the circle Alps logo, JD's original glider legends, replacing the 1U star with a 1U blank, and adding a 1.25U blank.

Any thoughts?

[jdcarpe]

Yes, 1U and 1.25U would be fine .

But seriously? Please don't change the icons and graphics based on just me. If you all are into the Glider logo, go with that. I'm just being picky. Like I said I'll back this no matter what.

Again, I don't really have any influence here.

That said, JD likes the non-grid, dotted version, and that's his baby, so it will probably stay that way. Nubs is sponsoring the Alps logo, and he's OK with the circle around it, and it seems that most people like it better. I'm OK with the star or blanks (I'd prefer blanks, I think you do too, CPT). So when Badwrench comes around I think we should propose a revision with the circle Alps logo, JD's original glider legends, replacing the 1U star with a 1U blank, and adding a 1.25U blank.

Any thoughts?

Sounds good to me. I'd definitely buy a set like that.

[Touch_It]

For some reason....

Mountains alone? I don't like them
Mountains in a circle? I'm ok with them

I'm ridiculous.

I still dislike that dot logo though

I agree with you completely.  But then again I love the windows 8 start key icon while most hate it.

[Badwrench]

Yes, 1U and 1.25U would be fine .

But seriously? Please don't change the icons and graphics based on just me. If you all are into the Glider logo, go with that. I'm just being picky. Like I said I'll back this no matter what.

Again, I don't really have any influence here.

That said, JD likes the non-grid, dotted version, and that's his baby, so it will probably stay that way. Nubs is sponsoring the Alps logo, and he's OK with the circle around it, and it seems that most people like it better. I'm OK with the star or blanks (I'd prefer blanks, I think you do too, CPT). So when Badwrench comes around I think we should propose a revision with the circle Alps logo, JD's original glider legends, replacing the 1U star with a 1U blank, and adding a 1.25U blank.

Any thoughts?

Done   

[Touch_It]

I'm good with that.

[jdcarpe]

Yes, 1U and 1.25U would be fine .

But seriously? Please don't change the icons and graphics based on just me. If you all are into the Glider logo, go with that. I'm just being picky. Like I said I'll back this no matter what.

Again, I don't really have any influence here.

That said, JD likes the non-grid, dotted version, and that's his baby, so it will probably stay that way. Nubs is sponsoring the Alps logo, and he's OK with the circle around it, and it seems that most people like it better. I'm OK with the star or blanks (I'd prefer blanks, I think you do too, CPT). So when Badwrench comes around I think we should propose a revision with the circle Alps logo, JD's original glider legends, replacing the 1U star with a 1U blank, and adding a 1.25U blank.

Any thoughts?

Done   

(Attachment Link)

And thus it was born, and shall be made.

[njbair]

Awesome.

Badwrench, I can send you an SVG of that Alps circle logo. PM me your email pls.

[rsadek]

I feel it's worth mentioning that I have no influence here...just throwing out ideas.

I'll also reiterate from my earlier post that I will support this set no matter what, because I want Alps group buys to succeed. Had I been around for the Delta Blue buy, I would have done the same there.

Agreed 100%! Definitely buying the set. Wish I'd known to buy Delta Blues.

[nubbinator]

Awesome.

Badwrench, I can send you an SVG of that Alps circle logo. PM me your email pls.

If you want to work from an SVG, I have one on my desktop of it just PM me and I can e-mail it to you.  If the fidelity is fine, no worries.

[Touch_It]

I feel it's worth mentioning that I have no influence here...just throwing out ideas.

I'll also reiterate from my earlier post that I will support this set no matter what, because I want Alps group buys to succeed. Had I been around for the Delta Blue buy, I would have done the same there.

Agreed 100%! Definitely buying the set. Wish I'd known to buy Delta Blues.

Yeah, sad I missed it.

[njbair]

Awesome.

Badwrench, I can send you an SVG of that Alps circle logo. PM me your email pls.

If you want to work from an SVG, I have one on my desktop of it just PM me and I can e-mail it to you.  If the fidelity is fine, no worries.

That PNG was pretty good. I just did an image trace in Adobe Illustrator. I'm not worried about it, especially since the real limiting factor to detail is the doubleshot fabrication and the small size of the logo on the key.

Here is a decent-sized PNG I produced from the SVG, in case you're curious:

[vivalarevolución]

I imagine that the answers to these questions are answered somewhere in this thread, but I'm not in a literary mood.

1.  Why no full-size right shift?
2.  What's the deal with the dot/glider logo?
3.  The Alps mountain logo is cool.  Nice touch.
4.  Just include enough mod keys so I don't have to use that dot/glider if I don't want to.  If I cannot intuitively figure out why it's there, why is it there?

Regardless, I will support, accept, and love this set unconditionally, without judgment, from it's creation to completion.  Thank you for your work.

[CPTBadAss]

2.  What's the deal with the dot/glider logo?
4.  Just include enough mod keys so I don't have to use that dot/glider if I don't want to.  If I cannot intuitively figure out why it's there, why is it there?

That's what I'm saying. I don't get the dot logo either. Something about it representing hacker culture? But I don't want Wikipedia telling me what symbology should represent to me. If you need Wiki to tell you how to feel about something, it's probably a bad symbol.

[jdcarpe]

The Glider is there because:

1) It looks cool
2) I wanted it there
3) I'm paying for the legend
4) Others like it, too

If you don't want to use it, fine, there are blanks to fill that spot.

#HATERSGONNAHATE

[zombimuncha]

But I don't want Wikipedia telling me what symbology should represent to me. If you need Wiki to tell you how to feel about something, it's probably a bad symbol.

A strong point. I had to look it up on wikipedia (before that link was posted, incidentally) and liked what I read.
I also like how mysterious it is!

Does anybody out there hate blanks, and would prefer a diamond or circle instead? I plan on using two mountains and a glider anyway (despite what I said a couple pages ago - I think the circle around the mountain changed my mind), so I don't care either way.

[jdcarpe]

2.  What's the deal with the dot/glider logo?
4.  Just include enough mod keys so I don't have to use that dot/glider if I don't want to.  If I cannot intuitively figure out why it's there, why is it there?

That's what I'm saying. I don't get the dot logo either. Something about it representing hacker culture? But I don't want Wikipedia telling me what symbology should represent to me. If you need Wiki to tell you how to feel about something, it's probably a bad symbol.

Your suggestion of the encircled Alps logo was the only other submission. Did you want to sponsor that legend, and include it instead of blanks? Is that logo copyrighted?

[geniekid]

Just wanted to say I don't care that strongly about the logos.  I also had to wiki the glider but it's whatever - with the tiny amount of interest in Alps caps with Infinity support I will buy whatever logos you decide on short of vaginas. 

[njbair]

I imagine that the answers to these questions are answered somewhere in this thread, but I'm not in a literary mood.

1.  Why no full-size right shift?
2.  What's the deal with the dot/glider logo?
3.  The Alps mountain logo is cool.  Nice touch.
4.  Just include enough mod keys so I don't have to use that dot/glider if I don't want to.  If I cannot intuitively figure out why it's there, why is it there?

Regardless, I will support, accept, and love this set unconditionally, without judgment, from it's creation to completion.  Thank you for your work.

This set is specifically for Infinity boards which do not have a full size right shift.

[CPTBadAss]

Your suggestion of the encircled Alps logo was the only other submission. Did you want to sponsor that legend, and include it instead of blanks? Is that logo copyrighted?

I'd rather see the stars, diamonds, and geometric shapes honestly.

Edit: I definitely deserve no credit for that by the way. That was all njbair who came up with that . Thanks for all the mockups njbair!

[Touch_It]

I didn't notice the right shift was split

[njbair]

Your suggestion of the encircled Alps logo was the only other submission. Did you want to sponsor that legend, and include it instead of blanks? Is that logo copyrighted?

I'd rather see the stars, diamonds, and geometric shapes honestly.

Edit: I definitely deserve no credit for that by the way. That was all njbair who came up with that . Thanks for all the mockups njbair!

Just trying to help find a compromise between mountains and geometric legends. The easiest way I know to make something geometric is to put it inside a geometric shape! Besides, it was pretty simple to do in Photoshop. I've got to justify my Adobe CC subscription somehow...

[vivalarevolución]

The Glider is there because:

1) It looks cool
2) I wanted it there
3) I'm paying for the legend
4) Others like it, too

If you don't want to use it, fine, there are blanks to fill that spot.

#HATERSGONNAHATE

Show Image

Don't hate the playa, hate the game.

[jdcarpe]

So, I think I have some related questions.

What do you plan on using these keycaps with? Infinity keyboards for the most part? hasu's 60% PCB?

If you are using a Hacker layout Infinity, what do you use for a 6u spacebar? Is SP capable of making those? Are they DSA-only? What about 6.25u in DCS or DSA?

Is anyone interested in a new plate? I need to design a plate for my hasu 60% PCB, and I'm trying to decide which layout to use. I think others buying that PCB will want a plate, as well.

[CPTBadAss]

I'm probably going to put these on Hasu's 60% PCB or a Filco Zero. I definitely would take a plate. For the Hasu 60% PCB though.

[jdcarpe]

I'm probably going to put these on Hasu's 60% PCB or a Filco Zero. I definitely would take a plate. For the Hasu 60% PCB though.

Yeah, that's what I plan on designing the plate for. I will probably go with Infinity layout options, 1-1 backspace, 1.75-1 right shift, but I don't know whether to make it in standard 1.25-1.25-1.25-6.25-1.25-1.25-1.25-1.25 or Hacker 1.5-1-1.5-6-1.5-1-1-1.5 bottom row. Depends on which spacebars we can get in Alps, I guess.

I could go standard ANSI like a Poker layout, if Badwrench wants to include a 2.75u right shift.

[zombimuncha]

I didn't notice the right shift was split

ZOMG! Me too! ROFL.
um...
I'm still in.

I just re-read (most) of the thread again, and every couple of pages someone asks about this and nobody replies.
I plan on using this on the upcoming KBP V80MTS-c, so I'd love it if a standard 2.75u right shift was added.

[CPTBadAss]

Depends on which spacebars we can get in Alps, I guess.

I think you've got the right idea. I thought Matias was supposed to have caps out soon but they still haven't dropped on their site. Just on Keyboardco.

[njbair]

So, I think I have some related questions.

What do you plan on using these keycaps with? Infinity keyboards for the most part? hasu's 60% PCB?

If you are using a Hacker layout Infinity, what do you use for a 6u spacebar? Is SP capable of making those? Are they DSA-only? What about 6.25u in DCS or DSA?

Is anyone interested in a new plate? I need to design a plate for my hasu 60% PCB, and I'm trying to decide which layout to use. I think others buying that PCB will want a plate, as well.

I'm planning on using this for an Infinity Hacker layout. I don't have it yet, I'm still waiting for shipping.

AFAIK, Signature Plastics can only make a 6U spacebar in DSA. There is currently an active thread in the Matias vendor forum where Matias is looking for input on what types/layouts of keycaps Alps users would be interested in. I've voiced my desire for a 6U spacebar in a Cherry profile, along with other Infinity-specific keys. A few others have agreed.

Worst case scenario, I could always use the black DSA spacebar that's shipping with my Infinity. Or I suppose I could assemble it without the plate in the Standard layout, since the PCB supports both, then put it in a TEX case or something.

I'm really not sure what a DSA spacebar would look like on a board where everything else is OEM/Cherry profile, but it can't be too much weirder than a flipped spacebar, which I usually use anyway. Maybe we can get a separate group buy together for 6U DSA spacebars.

[FrostyToast]

I am either going to use Hasu's PCB or a duck orion v2.
I haven't checked to see if the orion v2 supports short right shift.

[jdcarpe]

Or I suppose I could assemble it without the plate in the Standard layout, since the PCB supports both, then put it in a TEX case or something.

Alps require a plate, though, where MX do not. That's why I need to get some kind of consensus if we want to get some plates made. One-offs are expensive.

[njbair]

I didn't notice the right shift was split

ZOMG! Me too! ROFL.
um...
I'm still in.

I just re-read (most) of the thread again, and every couple of pages someone asks about this and nobody replies.
I plan on using this on the upcoming KBP V80MTS-c, so I'd love it if a standard 2.75u right shift was added.

I'm probably going to put these on Hasu's 60% PCB or a Filco Zero. I definitely would take a plate. For the Hasu 60% PCB though.

Yeah, that's what I plan on designing the plate for. I will probably go with Infinity layout options, 1-1 backspace, 1.75-1 right shift, but I don't know whether to make it in standard 1.25-1.25-1.25-6.25-1.25-1.25-1.25-1.25 or Hacker 1.5-1-1.5-6-1.5-1-1-1.5 bottom row. Depends on which spacebars we can get in Alps, I guess.

I could go standard ANSI like a Poker layout, if Badwrench wants to include a 2.75u right shift.

I didn't notice the right shift was split

Q: How many keys does any group buy set need to be perfect?
A: Just one or two more.

That said, is a full-size shift all that's needed to provide support for a truly standard 60% ANSI layout? Because if so that's really worth considering.

[njbair]

Or I suppose I could assemble it without the plate in the Standard layout, since the PCB supports both, then put it in a TEX case or something.

Alps require a plate, though, where MX do not. That's why I need to get some kind of consensus if we want to get some plates made. One-offs are expensive.

I didn't realize Apls require a plate. That changes things.

Still, I'd rather pursue a GB for a 6U spacebar (or a full alpha set which includes one) than a special plate. A new plate just further fragments the Infinity market.

[Touch_It]

I didn't notice the right shift was split

ZOMG! Me too! ROFL.
um...
I'm still in.

I just re-read (most) of the thread again, and every couple of pages someone asks about this and nobody replies.
I plan on using this on the upcoming KBP V80MTS-c, so I'd love it if a standard 2.75u right shift was added.

I'm probably going to put these on Hasu's 60% PCB or a Filco Zero. I definitely would take a plate. For the Hasu 60% PCB though.

Yeah, that's what I plan on designing the plate for. I will probably go with Infinity layout options, 1-1 backspace, 1.75-1 right shift, but I don't know whether to make it in standard 1.25-1.25-1.25-6.25-1.25-1.25-1.25-1.25 or Hacker 1.5-1-1.5-6-1.5-1-1-1.5 bottom row. Depends on which spacebars we can get in Alps, I guess.

I could go standard ANSI like a Poker layout, if Badwrench wants to include a 2.75u right shift.

I didn't notice the right shift was split

Q: How many keys does any group buy set need to be perfect?
A: Just one or two more.

That said, is a full-size shift all that's needed to provide support for a truly standard 60% ANSI layout? Because if so that's really worth considering.

I won't complain regardless but I believe that the right shift is the only missing key in this case.  For me it does mean the difference between a purchase or non purchase,  but I'm just 1 person.

[jdcarpe]

Q: How many keys does any group buy set need to be perfect?
A: Just one or two more.

That said, is a full-size shift all that's needed to provide support for a truly standard 60% ANSI layout? Because if so that's really worth considering.

This is a good point. Feature creep can be the death of any group buy/interest check. However, it's good to discuss these things, especially while this is still in interest check.

My informed opinion is that as far as key sizes go, this set needs to include both the Infinity Hacker layout, as well as standard ANSI.

Now, my question for Badwrench and others is this: Do you know if the stabilizer stem mounts that these support will even work with other keyboards, such as the KB Paradise with Matias switches? Because if not, there is no point in adding those keys. Or maybe a new plate needs to be made to go with the keycaps, in order to use different stabilizers.

[njbair]

Q: How many keys does any group buy set need to be perfect?
A: Just one or two more.

That said, is a full-size shift all that's needed to provide support for a truly standard 60% ANSI layout? Because if so that's really worth considering.

This is a good point. Feature creep can be the death of any group buy/interest check. However, it's good to discuss these things, especially while this is still in interest check.

My informed opinion is that as far as key sizes go, this set needs to include both the Infinity Hacker layout, as well as standard ANSI.

Now, my question for Badwrench and others is this: Do you know if the stabilizer stem mounts that these support will even work with other keyboards, such as the KB Paradise with Matias switches? Because if not, there is no point in adding those keys. Or maybe a new plate needs to be made to go with the keycaps, in order to use different stabilizers.

I honestly don't even know what kind of stabs come with the Infinity. Is there still no standard stabilizer setup for Matias Alps keys? I guess I'd assumed the whole Alps stabilizer situation had...stabilized?

[FrostyToast]

I believe the infinity plate only supports Cherry stabs.
Some companies like SP did use them a while back and still do.

[vivalarevolución]

I didn't notice the right shift was split

ZOMG! Me too! ROFL.
um...
I'm still in.

I just re-read (most) of the thread again, and every couple of pages someone asks about this and nobody replies.
I plan on using this on the upcoming KBP V80MTS-c, so I'd love it if a standard 2.75u right shift was added.

This set is specifically for Infinity boards which do not have a full size right shift.

[zombimuncha]

Found a photo of V60-MTS stabs:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65159.msg1524388#msg1524388

Standard Alps. V80-MTS should be similar. No idea about the Infinity.

Alps balance bars are thinner than MX, meaning that if you can get a balance bar the right shape to hit the inserts on the DCS cap, and the same thickness as standard Alps balance bars, it will be thin enough for the inserts, and fit perfectly on the clips. I believe Matias has these, either in stock or coming soon.


Edit: here's a better set of pics of the V60.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=61966.msg1525416#msg1525416
Looks like they've done the same thing as Matias boards, where the spacebar uses MX/Costar stabs and the smaller keys use Alps stabs.

[zombimuncha]

This set is specifically for Infinity boards which do not have a full size right shift.

Copy that.

I'm still in.

I think I can survive having two black shift keys next to my pretty blue mods :-)

[jacobolus]

Listen everyone:

Stabilized SP Alps keycaps only work on
a. the Infinity board
b.  Certain very cheap keyboards from the 90s, for instance from Chicony, or a few other OEMs, all of which have terrible cases and pad printed ABS keycaps. Nearly all of those use a “bigass” enter key with some totally wacky stabilizer system for it, so it’s basically impossible to get full replacement keycap sets for them, and really not worth worrying too much about IMO.
c. Matias’s upcoming 60%-with-extra-wide-bottom-row keyboard (which should support keycaps with either type of stabilizer inserts).

Any other Alps keyboard you have, e.g. Apple AEK, Dell AT101, Northgate Omnikey, etc., or any other Matias board, or the V60, etc. etc., will not support SP’s stabilized keycaps.

This set is only worrying about case (a) above, but might also be useful for people in the (b) and (c) buckets. For everyone else, this set won’t work for you, whether or not it includes a 2.75u right shift.

[CPTBadAss]

Why won't it work?

[FrostyToast]

Listen everyone:

Stabilized SP Alps keycaps only work on
a. the Infinity board
b.  Certain very cheap keyboards from the 90s, for instance from Chicony, or a few other OEMs, all of which have terrible cases and pad printed ABS keycaps. Nearly all of those use a “bigass” enter key with some totally wacky stabilizer system for it, so it’s basically impossible to get full replacement keycap sets for them, and really not worth worrying too much about IMO.
c. Matias’s upcoming 60%-with-extra-wide-bottom-row keyboard (which should support keycaps with either type of stabilizer inserts).

Any other Alps keyboard you have, e.g. Apple AEK, Dell AT101, Northgate Omnikey, etc., or any other Matias board, or the V60, etc. etc., will not support SP’s stabilized keycaps.

This set is only worrying about case (a) above. For everyone else, this set won’t work for you, whether or not it includes a 2.75u right shift.

Do we have pictures of what the bottom of SP ALPS caps look like?
What are the specific reasons why they won't work with other boards?

[jacobolus]

SP Alps caps take Cherry MX size cruciform stabilizer inserts, just like any MX-compatible keycaps.

It might be possible to make up a few 3D models of plastic inserts which would have an MX-style cruciform on one end and an Alps-style stabilizer-bar slot on the other end, and order a few from Shapeways or something, if you really want to make things work. But otherwise, there don’t currently exist plastic inserts which will let you fit SP’s stabilized keycaps onto most Alps keyboards.

[jacobolus]

I think I should make up a website just about the Alps stabilizer question, because even people who have been hanging out at geekhack for long enough that they should have seen this explained in detail dozens of times on numerous threads still seem to be utterly confused about it.

[FrostyToast]

SP Alps caps take Cherry MX size cruciform stabilizer inserts, just like any MX-compatible keycaps.

It might be possible to make up a few 3D models of plastic inserts which would have an MX-style cruciform on one end and an Alps-style stabilizer-bar slot on the other end, and order a few from Shapeways or something, if you really want to make things work. But otherwise, there don’t currently exist plastic inserts which will let you fit SP’s stabilized keycaps onto most Alps keyboards.

Well with a lot of custom keyboards which are alps and mx compatible you should be able to use standard MX stabs with these caps.
You don't need some vintage board to put these on. I thought a lot of people here would put them on custom boards.

[CPTBadAss]

I think I should make up a website just about the Alps stabilizer question, because even people who have been hanging out at geekhack for long enough that they should have seen this explained in detail dozens of times on numerous threads still seem to be utterly confused about it.

Never heard of the problem until here and I'm so glad that your attitude is really helping me understand it. /sarcasm.

Looks like you can just take the costar stabilizers, cut them down, and they'll work.

Could you link us poor plebes who can't possible comprehend your help?

[jacobolus]

Never heard of the problem until here

https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=jacobolus%20alps%20stabilizer%20(site%3Ageekhack.org%20OR%20site%3Adeskthority.net)

I’m not trying to call anyone out specifically (though I’ve actually explained this in direct responses right below posts of yours on at least two threads ). It’s just frustrating because I feel like a broken record.

Looks like you can just take the costar stabilizers, cut them down, and they'll work.

If you have a Chicony keyboard designed for Costar-style stabilizers, then yes, these SP keycaps will work. That’s my group (b) in the list above. If you have a Northgate, Apple, Dell, SGI, Zenith, Alps, Matias, etc. keyboard, then no, they won’t work.

Check Hak Foo’s post two posts below your link: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62274.msg1482025#msg1482025

The main keyboard where a 2.75u right shift might be useful to add as part of this set would be the Ducky 1087XM. I can’t find any pictures of their stabilized keycaps in a google image search. Does anyone know what type of stabilizer inserts it takes? If they are the Costar type, then it might be useful to add a 2.75u shift, assuming like 10 1087XM owners can be found who are interested in replacement caps. Otherwise, I don’t think it makes any sense to add 2.75u right shift to this set, unless a whole bunch of people are planning to use one with their own DIY keyboards or something.