Author Topic: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?  (Read 3895 times)

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Offline vindaon

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Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 11:02:56 »
So I was looking through some threads when I saw this: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35152.msg1645705#msg1645705

And my thoughts pretty much mirrored the post directly after that. What a well thought out design. And it made me think, man I really want that. But not in a

Quote
"OMG, he has that, and that makes him cool, so I need to get it also, so I will also be cool!"

way (ok, maybe a little). But because it just makes sense. It just seems like an intelligent, FUNCTIONAL design. Of course... tactile switches on the character generating keys, and linears on the modifiers. It just seems so obvious, now that I think about it. Now I'm seriously considering building one of my own. I don't even know how to solder. I haven't even purchased the board that I was intending to (Poker 3... come on Vortex, when's the release date???) and I already want to make a custom. Am I crazy?

Ergo Clears on the character generating keys, linear blacks on the modifiers, maybe something stiffer for the space bar (tactile grey?)... that's what I'm thinking.



What are y'alls thoughts? Oh, and props to trizkut (or whoever did it originally) for coming up with such a great idea, seriously.
« Last Edit: Mon, 23 February 2015, 12:15:25 by vindaon »

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 11:35:19 »
I have mixed switches, and I say that it is probably a bad idea, in general.

If you run short and fill in the lesser-used keys with something similar, that is probably OK.

The only way that I would mix tactile and linear would be with a few tactile or clicky keys in specific locations that warrant them, such as spacebar or enter, or where you would want to be notified physically such as numlock, caplock, or F2.
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Offline Fnzzy

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 11:41:29 »
I have been using this setup for a few months on my Duck Viper now. Ergo Clears for alphas and numbers and linear switches for the rest. All 62g. I also threw in an MX blue just for funsies but works actually really well for Esc.
 
I must say that it is wonderful! I am seriously considering to build every future keyboard that way. I will probably do a keyboard with all linear switches but I guess for the majority I will use this switch combination.


Offline vindaon

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 11:46:45 »
I have mixed switches, and I say that it is probably a bad idea, in general.

Always good to hear from someone that actually has experience. What in particular about mixed switches do you think makes them a bad idea? I can't really see any cons, but again, I haven't actually tried them out.

I must say that it is wonderful! I am seriously considering to build every future keyboard that way.

Wow, that board looks super nice! And it is very encouraging to see that you like that set up.


Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 12:13:55 »

What in particular about mixed switches do you think makes them a bad idea?


There is "muscle memory" and expectations that can get disoriented. You might think of it like this:

In construction, for example, building codes specify that stairs should be consistent, and that no stair, in a run, can vary from any other by more than 3/8" (1 cm) in any case.

So having a few "signal" switches in a silent set may be less disorienting than having a few smooth ones in an otherwise tactile set.
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To declare War,  grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To provide for calling forth the Militia  to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

Offline vindaon

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 12:26:22 »
Yes, I've heard about the staircase thing before. Something about making it very likely for someone to trip if the spacing is inconsistent.

About the keyboard, wouldn't the separation of character generating keys and modifiers fix, or at least partially solve that problem? I'm not sure, I guess that is something I will have to experience personally. I don't think you've discouraged me from trying it out, but you've given me something to consider that I probably wouldn't have come up with myself.

Thanks for your input, I genuinely appreciate it.

Offline engicoder

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 12:37:22 »
I think it is more common for the mods and/or spacebar to have a different spring rate, generally stiffer on the mods/spacebar.
For example, if using cherry MX,

Reds for alphas and Blacks for mods/spacebar
or
Blues for alphas and Greens for mods/spacebar
« Last Edit: Mon, 23 February 2015, 12:40:15 by engicoder »
   

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 13:24:20 »
I think that light tactile switches on the modifiers would be best. You are going to hold them down, and you want to know when you are holding them down.

BTW, mechanical typewriters usually have very hard almost linear feel (more like a curve) on the Shift keys.
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Offline Melvang

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 13:35:09 »
It has long been buried but I personally have used 6 different switches via spring, stem, and lube combinations on the same board at the same time.  Was a mix of tactile, and clicky with cherry light, and clear springs with some tactile switches having lube.
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Offline vindaon

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 14:23:45 »
I think that light tactile switches on the modifiers would be best. You are going to hold them down, and you want to know when you are holding them down.

BTW, mechanical typewriters usually have very hard almost linear feel (more like a curve) on the Shift keys.

I think I will end up bottoming the modifiers no matter what. But perhaps reds would be better... or even clear Gaterons? Would it be possible to mix Cherry and Gateron switches on the same board? Now that sounds interesting.

Offline Heliosphere

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 16:23:42 »
The Ducky 69 Edition is hybrid as hell. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67693.0

Offline C5Allroad

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 20:04:55 »
If it's anything like the ducky special boards that have like 6 different switches, I would be too confused. Though, I bet clears on my modifiers would feel very nice.

Offline ideus

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 20:11:38 »
Alphas - clears.
Modifiers - blacks.
Function key - blue.

Offline Korth

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 20:21:52 »
I currently use browns, clicky blues with heavy springs in the Esc/CapsLock/NumLock/ScrlLock and arrow keys.  Reduces the typing disruptions caused by inadvertently hitting any of them.  Yrah, I do maek typos smotimes.

Offline katushkin

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 20:25:45 »
Hybrid boards are cool, but the new Ducky one with like, 11 switches, is a really stupid idea.
Can we get them to build the Alps ten feet higher and get Cherry to pay for it?
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Offline falkentyne

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 22:04:02 »
The ducky 69 fire is actually well designed.  It's a gamer keyboard anyway, so you really do NOT want greens on the mods with blues on the letters.  Greens on mods would wear out and tire out your pinky too much.  Especially important since you often have to spam the shift key to strafe/toggle jump, etc.  VERY important in call of duty.  Space bar with blues instead of greens, that also makes sense, since space is often tapped a lot, or quickly, in some games.  And I would greatly prefer having any type of tactile switch on shift than a linear red, as on a Corsair K70 with MX Reds, I pressed shift on accident too much when playing COD.  That has never happened on MX Browns, for example, even though the same spring/actuation force is in both.

So blues were a great idea by ducky.  The alternative would be heavy linears like blacks, but then you lose key consistency..clickys on letters, linears on mods...
Also blues and greens have the same travel distance before you reach the bump, so while a full board of MX Clears would be AWESOME to have, having just clears on those mods would sort of change the cosnsistency (even if it would feel really good...like a stiffer brown where you could truly feel the tactile bump).  And no, I don't think many people would like tactile greys on letters or mods...that's the stiffest spring Cherry makes and the resistance increases sharply after the bump...(you'd never bottom out on greys....)

I think ducky did a good job with the 69 hybrid.  Maybe MX greens on the spacebar would be ok too, although blues do make sense.  (and it's the thumb that presses space, and that's the only key the thumb ever presses anyway).

Offline slickmamba

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 23:30:23 »
I play fps games quite a bit, so my ergodox has reds on WASD, and everything else is 62g clears.  Works for me :)
Hi :)

Offline Korth

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 24 February 2015, 00:09:33 »
Not everybody uses the WASD cluster for fps gaming.  I happen to be a numpad guy who finds WASD-optimized matrices pretty useless.  People tell me thats all wrong, but then again, some of them lose games more than I do.  It used to be more of an issue, but now some gaming offerings sport full-keyboard antighost/KRO functionality.

Offline slickmamba

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 24 February 2015, 00:12:17 »
Not everybody uses the WASD cluster for fps gaming.  I happen to be a numpad guy who finds WASD-optimized matrices pretty useless.  People tell me thats all wrong, but then again, some of them lose games more than I do.  It used to be more of an issue, but now some gaming offerings sport full-keyboard antighost/KRO functionality.

On full sized and tkl boards I actually use IJKL so that my mouse doesn't hit the keyboard and for more functionality. 
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Offline Oobly

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 24 February 2015, 02:51:29 »
Not everybody uses the WASD cluster for fps gaming.  I happen to be a numpad guy who finds WASD-optimized matrices pretty useless.  People tell me thats all wrong, but then again, some of them lose games more than I do.  It used to be more of an issue, but now some gaming offerings sport full-keyboard antighost/KRO functionality.

ESDF gives you access to more keys :) On my ergonomic board I just use SDF since they're positioned optimally for resting finger positions, give access to even more surrounding keys for MMO's and I don't use backwards.

I'm considering trying linear mods on my next build (all 62g, Clears on alphas), just like Fnzzy. That board looks incredible, by the way.
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Offline ideus

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 24 February 2015, 07:11:01 »
Different switch types can give auditive feedback for certain keys.

Offline vindaon

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 24 February 2015, 09:34:19 »
Hmm, after some more thought, I realize "hybrid" was probably a bad description. Since topre is sometimes described as hybrid. "Mixed Switch" would probably be better.

Also it seems like it's a LOT more common than I thought. Guess I would have known had I lurked some more. That's good though, it's convincing me more that this is actually a great idea.

Offline jamster

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Re: Thoughts on a "hybrid" board, with multiple different switches?
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 01 March 2015, 20:59:36 »
Wish I'd come across this idea a couple of weeks ago before I re-did my (non-clicky) keyboard. I would have switched in clicky switches into caps and num lock as I ended up removing the LEDs from them.