Author Topic: USB to USB keyboard converter  (Read 112512 times)

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Offline jcoffin1981

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #50 on: Thu, 10 September 2015, 19:39:09 »
Great!

BTW, I did this just for fun and it worked with daisy chain of two, at least :D
Show Image


OMG!  These are the exact keycaps I want.  I've never seen them but I knew in my mind what I was looking for.  What the heck are they and where are they from?  I like the symbols that are barely discernible from the keycap color.
KPB V60 Gateron Browns and Leopold Keycaps.  Poker 3 with Gateron Browns and Poker keycaps.  Poker 3 with Cherry MX Browns, ABS keycaps and white LED's.

Leopold FC660M- my new favorite, right out of the box.

Offline hasu

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #51 on: Thu, 10 September 2015, 19:47:15 »
It is just a PFU HHKB with black keycaps. Not Cherry.
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Offline njbair

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #52 on: Thu, 17 September 2015, 15:12:25 »
I've got a new board that doesn't seem to work with the converter. It's a Varmilo VA87MR from Massdrop. It's backlit, so I'm wondering if it's a current draw issue. I also tried it on my Leonardo-based converter with an AC adapter as a power source, same issue. Here's the output from hid_listen, with bracketed comments for the timing of each event:

Waiting for device:.........
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ]
Listening:
init: done
[backlights turn on to my saved setting (dim)]
[brief pause, then lock indicator lights quickly flash once]

host.Task: 0A34

[I press any key on the keyboard except Fn]
Device disconnected.
Waiting for new device:.
Listening:
init: done
host.Task: 0A34

Device disconnected.
Waiting for new device:..............

Any ideas where to start looking for an issue?

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
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AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline hasu

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #53 on: Thu, 17 September 2015, 16:10:43 »
Does the keyboard use NKRO mode? The converter sends a command to render the keyboard in 6KRO mode but I didn't confirm this works. I guess this is your problem.

But the disocnnecting by pressing a key is unexpected to me. I can't know what happens, perhaps it goes mad by receiving unexpected report.

Plug keyboard to converter first then plugin the converter into USB port, doesn't it help?
TMK products:HHKB Alt  ⌨ConvertersAlps64FC660C AltFC980C Alt

Offline njbair

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #54 on: Thu, 17 September 2015, 16:13:41 »
Does the keyboard use NKRO mode? The converter sends a command to render the keyboard in 6KRO mode but I didn't confirm this works. I guess this is your problem.

But the disocnnecting by pressing a key is unexpected to me. I can't know what happens, perhaps it goes mad by receiving unexpected report.

Plug keyboard to converter first then plugin the converter into USB port, doesn't it help?

The board does do NKRO mode. I'm looking to see if there's a way to change that, but I can't find any instructions for the Fn commands on this thing (you'd think it would have come with a manual or at least a quick reference guide!).

I'll keep digging and see if I can find a way to switch it to 6KRO mode.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline njbair

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #55 on: Thu, 17 September 2015, 16:20:31 »
Actually, is there anything I can do to test/debug the "force 6KRO" command?

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline hasu

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #56 on: Thu, 17 September 2015, 18:09:29 »
HID SET_PROTOCOL request should switch keyboard to boot protocol(6KRO).
This line sends the command. I think it doesn't work for some reason.

https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/blob/master/tmk_core/protocol/usb_hid/USB_Host_Shield_2.0/hidboot.h#L456
TMK products:HHKB Alt  ⌨ConvertersAlps64FC660C AltFC980C Alt

Offline njbair

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #57 on: Fri, 18 September 2015, 08:07:27 »
So this is interesting...

When I open Device Manager > Human Interface Devices, I see two items: my mouse and a bluetooth HID device. But then I plug in the Varmilo and all of these show up:

HID-compliant consumer control device
HID-compliant system controller
HID-compliant vendor-defined device
HID-compliant vendor-defined device
USB Input Device
USB Input Device
USB Input Device

Seems like a lot of stuff for one keyboard...I have heard about keyboards that "fake" USB NKRO by emulating multiple keyboards. Is that what's happening here? If so that would explain why the USB host shield doesn't work with it.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #58 on: Fri, 18 September 2015, 10:46:10 »
I didn't dig into the issue, yet the usb-to-usb converter didn't work for me out of the box either

Since the infinity firmware is NKRO, I guess it might also be the reason in my case too
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Offline hasu

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #59 on: Fri, 18 September 2015, 11:58:11 »
I'll have to look into set protocol request deeply to support those keyboard.

I'm curious whether those keyboards work well with BIOS, if so they can be used with the converter hopefully.
TMK products:HHKB Alt  ⌨ConvertersAlps64FC660C AltFC980C Alt

Offline njbair

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #60 on: Fri, 18 September 2015, 14:29:24 »
I'll have to look into set protocol request deeply to support those keyboard.

I'm curious whether those keyboards work well with BIOS, if so they can be used with the converter hopefully.

Everything I've read indicates that this keyboard doesn't work at all on Mac (or rather, only some of the keys work). Some of the USB NKRO boards default to 6KRO and you have to enable NKRO via DIP switch or key combination. But it seems like the Varmilo doesn't support 6KRO at all.

I am curious to see what hardware it uses. Maybe I can rewire it to a Teensy or something.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #61 on: Fri, 18 September 2015, 15:05:45 »
I'll have to look into set protocol request deeply to support those keyboard.

I'm curious whether those keyboards work well with BIOS, if so they can be used with the converter hopefully.

Everything I've read indicates that this keyboard doesn't work at all on Mac (or rather, only some of the keys work). Some of the USB NKRO boards default to 6KRO and you have to enable NKRO via DIP switch or key combination. But it seems like the Varmilo doesn't support 6KRO at all.

I am curious to see what hardware it uses. Maybe I can rewire it to a Teensy or something.

I researched this for you: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/36ejhp/varmilo_va87m_info_please/ but it probably doesn't support ps2 either

I'm currently aiming for keyboards with PS/2 support so it will be more practical to use them with tmk ps2_to_usb adapter, but I haven't got a chance to verify my theory in real life

If only they started deploying every keyboard with tmk pre-installed, that would be great
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline njbair

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #62 on: Fri, 18 September 2015, 15:12:08 »
I'll have to look into set protocol request deeply to support those keyboard.

I'm curious whether those keyboards work well with BIOS, if so they can be used with the converter hopefully.

Everything I've read indicates that this keyboard doesn't work at all on Mac (or rather, only some of the keys work). Some of the USB NKRO boards default to 6KRO and you have to enable NKRO via DIP switch or key combination. But it seems like the Varmilo doesn't support 6KRO at all.

I am curious to see what hardware it uses. Maybe I can rewire it to a Teensy or something.

I researched this for you: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/36ejhp/varmilo_va87m_info_please/ but it probably doesn't support ps2 either

I'm currently aiming for keyboards with PS/2 support so it will be more practical to use them with tmk ps2_to_usb adapter, but I haven't got a chance to verify my theory in real life

If only they started deploying every keyboard with tmk pre-installed, that would be great
Thanks for the link, I think I came across that or a similar post in my search for some documentation for this keyboard, which I never found.

Anyway, after trying every possible Fn+key combination, I've determined that there's no way to switch this board to boot mode.

I'm thinking I won't keep this board. No TMK, even via a converter, is pretty much a deal breaker for me these days. So unless I can figure out how to rewire it, there's no point in keeping it. Shame, too, since I really like the way this board looks and feels.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #63 on: Sat, 19 September 2015, 20:45:46 »
Here is my initial experiences with Sprit PCB, keep in mind that these are pretty initial

USB-to-USB, doesn't work, the PCB is probably in auto-recognition mode, the caps-lock led of the sprit PCB keeps on flashing

PS2-to-USB, doesn't work, the PCB is probably in auto-recognition mode, the caps-lock led of the sprit PCB keeps on flashing - however - in between these flashes, there are brief intervals where keys register, at most 2 keys tho

(Edit: Both converters work flawlessly with a WASD V2, a WASD V2 seems like the optimal test device for many things, I could've saved many hours/dollars if I discovered tmk converters 6-7 months ago, still I'm considering letting go off my custom keyboards/layouts and just embracing and re-building a V2)
« Last Edit: Sat, 19 September 2015, 21:01:12 by KHAANNN »
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline njbair

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #64 on: Sat, 19 September 2015, 21:01:30 »
Here is my initial experiences with Sprit PCB, keep in mind that these are pretty initial

USB-to-USB, doesn't work, the PCB is probably in auto-recognition mode, the caps-lock led of the sprit PCB keeps on flashing

PS2-to-USB, doesn't work, the PCB is probably in auto-recognition mode, the caps-lock led of the sprit PCB keeps on flashing - however - in between these flashes, there are brief intervals where keys register, at most 2 keys tho

Hasu mentioned that he didn't think the HID_SET_PROTOCOL bit was working properly. If you are sure the Sprit PCB is supposed to support boot mode, it may be a a good candidate to debug that feature.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline hasu

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #65 on: Sat, 19 September 2015, 23:16:20 »
I confirmed the converter behaves what I expected on HID Set_Protocol. It sends Set_ Protocol(Boot) request every time keyboard is pluged in so that the keyboard can change to Boot protocol mode(6KRO).

In fact my Alps64 keyboard configured with NKRO can work with this USB to USB converter. TMK NKRO code on keyboard side needed to be fixed a little but the converter has no problem with firmware already availble. (I'll updated TMK NKRO code shortly.)


This is good and bad news at same time.
Good: The converter works as what I expected.
Bad: Those keyboards don't work as what I expected. I(or you) have to look into those keyboard's behaviour to know why they don't  work :(
TMK products:HHKB Alt  ⌨ConvertersAlps64FC660C AltFC980C Alt

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #66 on: Sun, 20 September 2015, 22:40:46 »
As a small update, Sprit PCB can't recognize the PS2-to-USB converter and the USB-to-USB converter, the reason is the auto ps2/usb selection of the PCB

The solution was to manually set the connection type, which is as simple as press and hold "U" before connecting the keyboard, it's a relief :)

Off topic, the ps2avrU firmware probably flashes itself and therefore can retain settings, pretty interesting - but it flunks on many other things, haven't tested the PS2 again yet, testing the PS2 is risky as my unit is hand-soldered, but those who can't find a tmk_keyboard pre-installed PCB could just go ahead and get the Sprit PCB to use with a converter

Edit: No long term guarantee tho, at this point I can only hope the setup to be persistent
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline njbair

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #67 on: Mon, 21 September 2015, 21:33:22 »
As a small update, Sprit PCB can't recognize the PS2-to-USB converter and the USB-to-USB converter, the reason is the auto ps2/usb selection of the PCB

The solution was to manually set the connection type, which is as simple as press and hold "U" before connecting the keyboard, it's a relief :)

Off topic, the ps2avrU firmware probably flashes itself and therefore can retain settings, pretty interesting - but it flunks on many other things, haven't tested the PS2 again yet, testing the PS2 is risky as my unit is hand-soldered, but those who can't find a tmk_keyboard pre-installed PCB could just go ahead and get the Sprit PCB to use with a converter

Edit: No long term guarantee tho, at this point I can only hope the setup to be persistent
Just today I was thinking about your issue with Infinity not working with the USB to USB converter. I read that USB is technically capable of NKRO, but it's not as widely supported across all computers. Infinity firmware uses native USB NKRO, apparently with no 6KRO fallback. This is why the converter won't work with it.

Come to think of it, I wonder if my Infinities, which run TMK, would work with the converter. I'll have to try that tomorrow.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #68 on: Tue, 22 September 2015, 10:42:35 »
I can't describe how satisfied I am right now, It took around an hour to replicate and extend my current layout with the usb_to_usb converter - I initially bought the converter just in case, but I don't think I will build a custom ps2_to_usb converter for NKRO, as I'm mostly at 4KRO myself :)

Used keymap_hasu.c as a base, I'm at 91.52% usage, so it's a bit concerning
Might be great if you re-built this usb_to_usb converter with a larger microcontroller :)

Is it safe to flash the converter with the keyboard connected?
It usually works, but one time the converter got stuck, likely with a mouse_click_hold too (so the mouse didn't work, things kept getting selected), the only way to re-engage was to re-connect the converter, but usually, things just start working after the flashing

(I will likely start spamming the tmk thread and maybe the issue tracker soon)

Checked for a donate link but couldn't find one, might be a good idea to add one to github, if it's going to help the development that is

Edit: The only issue I had was with the leds, they didn't turn off, I'm not sure whether this is an issue with the PCB or the converter, in any case, I ended up turning them off, simpler - I have to say, tmk_keyboard is sooo soothing after dabbling with the infinity firmware for a long time, adding a SHIFT_ESC override took 2-3 minutes, I'm slowly adding overrided modifier behaviours, yet my layout is more like FN5 FN6 FN12's instead of Q W A S D's right now :)
« Last Edit: Tue, 22 September 2015, 19:59:16 by KHAANNN »
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline njbair

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #69 on: Tue, 22 September 2015, 23:50:15 »
I can't describe how satisfied I am right now, It took around an hour to replicate and extend my current layout with the usb_to_usb converter - I initially bought the converter just in case, but I don't think I will build a custom ps2_to_usb converter for NKRO, as I'm mostly at 4KRO myself :)

Used keymap_hasu.c as a base, I'm at 91.52% usage, so it's a bit concerning
Might be great if you re-built this usb_to_usb converter with a larger microcontroller :)

Is it safe to flash the converter with the keyboard connected?
It usually works, but one time the converter got stuck, likely with a mouse_click_hold too (so the mouse didn't work, things kept getting selected), the only way to re-engage was to re-connect the converter, but usually, things just start working after the flashing

(I will likely start spamming the tmk thread and maybe the issue tracker soon)

Checked for a donate link but couldn't find one, might be a good idea to add one to github, if it's going to help the development that is

Edit: The only issue I had was with the leds, they didn't turn off, I'm not sure whether this is an issue with the PCB or the converter, in any case, I ended up turning them off, simpler - I have to say, tmk_keyboard is sooo soothing after dabbling with the infinity firmware for a long time, adding a SHIFT_ESC override took 2-3 minutes, I'm slowly adding overrided modifier behaviours, yet my layout is more like FN5 FN6 FN12's instead of Q W A S D's right now :)

Glad to hear it's working for you.

Care to share your config? I forked hasu's TMK repo on GitHub and maintain my personal stuff within that fork. As a bonus, anyone can see my layout. Here's my repo--links to my custom stuff are at the top of the README file.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline KHAANNN

  • Posts: 1623
Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 23 September 2015, 02:16:37 »
Glad to hear it's working for you.

Care to share your config? I forked hasu's TMK repo on GitHub and maintain my personal stuff within that fork. As a bonus, anyone can see my layout. Here's my repo--links to my custom stuff are at the top of the README file.

Your keymap is certainly very clean compared to mine :)

Here it is, in it's current form: https://gist.github.com/kaansoral/8c663fda0248abb4875d
It seems the 32Fn limitation is going to hit me soon (Probably going to use most of it to extend/improve the ~native "Alt" layer, like Alt+[ to /* Alt+] to */ Alt+< to <!-- etc. -- things that need frequent typing yet very hard to type on an 60%, especially the /* */'s =)

Currently dealing with this issue: https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/issues/248 - I suspect the speed/timing requirement might be due to the converter

It's a very unimportant issue tho, since I extremely rarely use the right shift

I also noticed that the CapsLock/NumLock report is broken, I wasn't expecting the state to be reported, but it's reported, yet it stops being reported at one point, I'm going to create an issue about it at one point too, again very unimportant for me, since I activate the CapsLock just to see the led

Edit: I don't think the Shift issue could be converter related tho, I don't know much about USB protocol, but is there an acknowledgement logic? - I was also paranoid whether there could be other timing issues, like regular Shift/release timing related, but after some thinking, I think the issue is mainly with layer switch bugs etc.
« Last Edit: Thu, 24 September 2015, 04:35:54 by KHAANNN »
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Offline hasu

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #71 on: Sat, 26 September 2015, 16:15:18 »
KHAANNN,
Thanks for your feed back.
That issue is a limitation of current TMK keymap design, I've had an idea of new keymap framework but I didn't set out anything yet.
https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/issues/248

As for 32 Fn limitation, you can get a workaround by using actionmaps and 16 bit action_codes instead of 8 bit keycodes. But this may inflate flash space usage, this is critical especially for USB-USB converter.
https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue++actionmap

Not sure about the 'CapsLock/NumLock report', LED idicators works for me as long as I tested with Cherry G80-3600 and slammed on CapsLock and NumLock keys.

BTW, what is your keyboard? Infinity?
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Offline KHAANNN

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #72 on: Sun, 27 September 2015, 02:18:49 »
Thanks for the info

No it's a FaceW/Sprit 60% PCB

I just re-tested the CapsLock issue, it's easily reproducible for me, when I toggle CapsLock 10-15 times, at one point the light gets stuck

As an info, my CapsLock is also on an FN Layer - yet when the Led gets stuck, it stays there, the only way to turn it off is to remove/re-attach the usb-usb converter
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Offline hasu

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #73 on: Sun, 27 September 2015, 07:52:54 »
Ah, OK. Then, I'll have to test Infinity later.

Testing with plain keymap(just one layer) is useful to know where the problem is: Keymap or  LED report between converter and keyboard.

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Offline Leimi

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #74 on: Sun, 27 September 2015, 12:35:49 »
As a small update, Sprit PCB can't recognize the PS2-to-USB converter and the USB-to-USB converter, the reason is the auto ps2/usb selection of the PCB

The solution was to manually set the connection type, which is as simple as press and hold "U" before connecting the keyboard, it's a relief :)

Hey!

Thanks for the feedback, I currently have a FaceW pcb waiting to be used and I can't figure out how to make it work with a ps2-usb tmk converter. If I understand correctly, you just had to hold "u" while connection the keyboard (with the converter in between the computer and the keyboard) and it worked for you?

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #75 on: Sun, 27 September 2015, 13:06:51 »
As a small update, Sprit PCB can't recognize the PS2-to-USB converter and the USB-to-USB converter, the reason is the auto ps2/usb selection of the PCB

The solution was to manually set the connection type, which is as simple as press and hold "U" before connecting the keyboard, it's a relief :)

Hey!

Thanks for the feedback, I currently have a FaceW pcb waiting to be used and I can't figure out how to make it work with a ps2-usb tmk converter. If I understand correctly, you just had to hold "u" while connection the keyboard (with the converter in between the computer and the keyboard) and it worked for you?

Thanks

You should hold "P" for PS2, "U" is for USB

I also have a PS2 converter made and parts for a more elegant one, yet I didn't feel the need for NKRO yet so I haven't tried it (the connections are pretty risky, a touch in the wrong place and it could fry my keyboard), I'm also unsure whether the PS2 converter is superior or inferior (in terms of protocol)

So please let us know how it goes :)
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Offline Leimi

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #76 on: Sun, 27 September 2015, 13:58:17 »
You should hold "P" for PS2, "U" is for USB

I also have a PS2 converter made and parts for a more elegant one, yet I didn't feel the need for NKRO yet so I haven't tried it (the connections are pretty risky, a touch in the wrong place and it could fry my keyboard), I'm also unsure whether the PS2 converter is superior or inferior (in terms of protocol)

So please let us know how it goes :)

Hey, thanks a lot!
My ps2-usb tmk converter works with facew when holding "p" when connecting it :) Without you I think I'd have given up and bought another PCB working with tmk like GON or something.

Just noticed this was the usb-usb converter topic so, sorry for the off topic heh!

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #77 on: Sun, 27 September 2015, 15:11:12 »
You should hold "P" for PS2, "U" is for USB

I also have a PS2 converter made and parts for a more elegant one, yet I didn't feel the need for NKRO yet so I haven't tried it (the connections are pretty risky, a touch in the wrong place and it could fry my keyboard), I'm also unsure whether the PS2 converter is superior or inferior (in terms of protocol)

So please let us know how it goes :)

Hey, thanks a lot!
My ps2-usb tmk converter works with facew when holding "p" when connecting it :) Without you I think I'd have given up and bought another PCB working with tmk like GON or something.

Just noticed this was the usb-usb converter topic so, sorry for the off topic heh!

I hope no one minds the somewhat off topic discussion too :)

Glad I could help, luckily that setting is persistent, so you won't have to re-set things, it will keep on working, which is great

The GON also can't run tmk natively, you need a programmer to add a new bootloader, forgot the name of the device, but it's a cheap one

On the native side of things, I also wish there was a PCB that natively supported tmk out of the box, the AUNK was promising for a while, but it currently died down

I haven't noticed any converter related issues tho, so tmk with a converter is a good alternative, the FaceW PCB also seems pretty solid, there's also the possibility of someone re-igniting V-USB stuff and running TMK on FaceW one day

Please PM me your PS2 experiences after a while, if you can
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Offline hasu

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #78 on: Sat, 03 October 2015, 23:58:39 »
Good news, Infinity works with my USB-USB converter as what I expected.

Infinity usually works in NKRO mode when directly connected to PC but switches to 6KRO mode automatically when connected into the converter. You don't have to do anything to switch the modes. Great.

This indicates that my expectation and firmware about NKRO-6KRO switching was correct. Then, I don't know how to support Varmilo VA87MR which doesn't switch between the modes like Infinity.
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Offline njbair

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #79 on: Sun, 04 October 2015, 00:04:37 »
Good news, Infinity works with my USB-USB converter as what I expected.

Infinity usually works in NKRO mode when directly connected to PC but switches to 6KRO mode automatically when connected into the converter. You don't have to do anything to switch the modes. Great.

This indicates that my expectation and firmware about NKRO-6KRO switching was correct. Then, I don't know how to support Varmilo VA87MR which doesn't switch between the modes like Infinity.

The Varmilo doesn't even work with a PS/2 adapter. It is simply incompatible with anything non-Windows.

I am inclined to take it apart and wire up a Teensy somehow, running TMK of course.

Can I do backlighting with a Teensy running TMK?

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Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
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Offline hasu

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #80 on: Sun, 04 October 2015, 00:44:35 »
Yes, I think some people forked and added code for backlight in their own repository.

TMK has only very limited support for it and there is backlight API but I don't know it much.
You actually have to write code a lot for your backlight.
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Offline yangdigi

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #81 on: Mon, 12 October 2015, 02:24:01 »
By following your construction, I've managed to build one USB to USB keyboard converter. Thx, hasu.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76020.0

113485-0

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #82 on: Mon, 12 October 2015, 03:18:15 »
So many confusing stuff in that photo

the wireless dongle, the keycaps
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Offline yangdigi

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #83 on: Mon, 12 October 2015, 03:42:00 »
So many confusing stuff in that photo

the wireless dongle, the keycaps
you mean my photo?
wireless dongle is for another 104 wireless keyboard that is not in this photo.
Keycaps are IKBC's with backlight on, half red and half blue. The battery of my 60 keyboard was low when I took this photo. So the right half's backlight is hard to see.

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #84 on: Mon, 12 October 2015, 03:46:13 »
So many confusing stuff in that photo

the wireless dongle, the keycaps
you mean my photo?
wireless dongle is for another 104 wireless keyboard that is not in this photo.
Keycaps are IKBC's with backlight on, half red and half blue. The battery of my 60 keyboard was low when I took this photo. So the right half's backlight is hard to see.

Wow, I didn't even notice the half on half off backlights, I was talking about the low profile "G" keycap

Checked your other thread, definitely seems interesting, using the logitech unifying receiver with usb-usb and attaching multiple keyboards to it, very very interesting
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Offline yangdigi

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #85 on: Mon, 12 October 2015, 03:49:24 »
So many confusing stuff in that photo

the wireless dongle, the keycaps
you mean my photo?
wireless dongle is for another 104 wireless keyboard that is not in this photo.
Keycaps are IKBC's with backlight on, half red and half blue. The battery of my 60 keyboard was low when I took this photo. So the right half's backlight is hard to see.

Wow, I didn't even notice the half on half off backlights, I was talking about the low profile "G" keycap

Checked your other thread, definitely seems interesting, using the logitech unifying receiver with usb-usb and attaching multiple keyboards to it, very very interesting
low profile keycaps are from cherry G80-3800.
now I need to get two logitech keyboards to test if they two can work well with only one receiver in usb-usb. If works, then I can continue my work.
« Last Edit: Mon, 12 October 2015, 03:52:16 by yangdigi »

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #86 on: Fri, 11 December 2015, 18:15:08 »
Hi everyone, hasu :),

I've been using this converter with: http://www.amazon.com/IOGEAR-Peripheral-Sharing-Switch-GUS402/dp/B00BD8I2OY

It works fine / as expected - yet lately sometimes the converter just doesn't power the keyboard, after switching the keyboard it's unresponsive, I also re-connect the keyboard by removing/re-connecting the mini-usb, yet the leds don't flash (they flash when the keyboard is connected) - which led me to believe this might be a converter issue
(during these, the converter led is always on)

Otherwise I would lean more towards this being an OSX issue, as it might have started after the last update

Does this make any sense?
« Last Edit: Fri, 11 December 2015, 18:16:54 by KHAANNN »
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Offline hasu

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #87 on: Sat, 12 December 2015, 08:34:05 »
USB Host library enumeration doesn't seems to conform to spec completely. It can fail to detect device in some cases, probably.
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Offline kahless

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #88 on: Tue, 29 December 2015, 05:16:12 »
Hey everyone...

Great project, and I can only imagine the possibilities that will be opened by this one.

However, I have a problem with it. I built the converter using a Leonardo with a host adapter shield. Programmed the firmware, made some modifications on the keymap, flashed again. Everything works fine.

Except for Magic Commands.

I enabled COMMAND_ENABLE in the Makefile, and after flashing the converter stopped working completely. It's not recognized by hid_listen anymore. Commenting out COMMAND_ENABLE fixes it.

I understand that njbair had a similar problem, but that it was caused by missing ICSP connection to the USB host shield. My board looks exactly like the one yangdigi showed in this thread on October 12 (with the Keyes print). It has the female header installed.

Any suggestions? Am I doing something wrong?


Thanks in advance,
Kahless.

Offline kahless

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #89 on: Tue, 29 December 2015, 05:23:00 »
Oh, and one more question: media keys I press on my keyboard aren't supported, I read that. Is that because someone has to put some effort into it, or is it because it's not possible to support media keys? Using xev on Linux I see that media keys are sent like any other keypresses...

I know that I could map media keys to other keys and then send them using the converter, but I would like to keep them where they are. And on my CM Storm QuickFire Rapid-i they are sent using a combination with Fn -- which is impossible to see for the converter.


Regards,
Kahless.

Offline hasu

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #90 on: Tue, 29 December 2015, 16:12:19 »
I enabled COMMAND_ENABLE in the Makefile, and after flashing the converter stopped working completely. It's not recognized by hid_listen anymore. Commenting out COMMAND_ENABLE fixes it.

I understand that njbair had a similar problem, but that it was caused by missing ICSP connection to the USB host shield. My board looks exactly like the one yangdigi showed in this thread on October 12 (with the Keyes print). It has the female header installed.

Any suggestions? Am I doing something wrong?

Probaby firmware size, note that Magic commands feature bloats binary much.
Leonardo has 4KB bootloader area and you can use 28KB for application, if your binary size is more than that it won't work.
You can disable other features like Mouse keys or Extra keys(Media keys) to keep size less than 28KB limit.
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Offline hasu

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #91 on: Tue, 29 December 2015, 16:23:00 »
Oh, and one more question: media keys I press on my keyboard aren't supported, I read that. Is that because someone has to put some effort into it, or is it because it's not possible to support media keys? Using xev on Linux I see that media keys are sent like any other keypresses...

I know that I could map media keys to other keys and then send them using the converter, but I would like to keep them where they are. And on my CM Storm QuickFire Rapid-i they are sent using a combination with Fn -- which is impossible to see for the converter.


Regards,
Kahless.

To add support for media keys is possible certainly. Every keyboard can implement media keys in different ways, so to support all of them is very difficult in terms of memory size, you will need HID descriptor parser to do that. But You can still add support only for your keyboard with hard coded instead of full functional parser.
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Offline Hypersphere

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #92 on: Tue, 29 December 2015, 17:16:03 »
1. Is there a step-by-step guide for programming the USB-USB converter?

2. I plug my USB keyboards into a USB hub. Will the USB-USB converter work if plugged into a USB hub?

3. Will the USB-USB converter work with a hex file that I generated for the KC-60 programmable keyboard?

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #93 on: Tue, 29 December 2015, 17:36:27 »
1. Is there a step-by-step guide for programming the USB-USB converter?

2. I plug my USB keyboards into a USB hub. Will the USB-USB converter work if plugged into a USB hub?

3. Will the USB-USB converter work with a hex file that I generated for the KC-60 programmable keyboard?

1. I haven't seen one but programming the usb-usb is as hard as compiling the tmk firmware

2. definitely works, both for programming and using, I had always used it with a usb hub, now I'm using it with a usb hub switch, no issues

3. while I don't understand the question, the answer is probably no, in general, compatibility is a hit and miss
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Offline hasu

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #94 on: Tue, 29 December 2015, 17:42:45 »
1. Is there a step-by-step guide for programming the USB-USB converter?

2. I plug my USB keyboards into a USB hub. Will the USB-USB converter work if plugged into a USB hub?

3. Will the USB-USB converter work with a hex file that I generated for the KC-60 programmable keyboard?

1. No. You have to check the first post of this thread and poor TMK documentations.
2. Yes. You can plug conveter into USB hub. Converter itself draws around 60mA, your hub have to be able to provide power for it and your keyboard. You can use bus power hub if power is enough, use powered hub if not.
3. Not sure what you mean and I don't know KC-60. Converter needs hex file of USB-USB firmware, it wont' run with KC-60 hex. But converter work with KC-60 if the keyboard supports boot protocol(6KRO).
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Offline colomb

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #95 on: Wed, 30 December 2015, 12:41:49 »
Has anyone tried to incorporate one of these in a cable similar to what orihalcon has done with the Soarers?

Hasu, I'm interested in buying on of these to use with Novatouch and RF boards. Can you think of any reason why this wouldn't work with those? Thanks

Offline hasu

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #96 on: Thu, 31 December 2015, 06:54:49 »
Has anyone tried to incorporate one of these in a cable similar to what orihalcon has done with the Soarers?

Hasu, I'm interested in buying on of these to use with Novatouch and RF boards. Can you think of any reason why this wouldn't work with those? Thanks


I believe it works with Realforce because RF speaks just in plain 6KRO protocol, but not sure about Novatouch. Coolermaster says it is capable of  'NKRO(Windows only)' in its product page and I don't know how the keyboard work in fact. If the keyboard can accept 'set protocol' command properly and speak in 6KRO the converter will work.
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Offline Hypersphere

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #97 on: Thu, 31 December 2015, 07:47:39 »
Thanks, Hasu and KHAANNN for your answers to my questions.

Offline hasu

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #98 on: Wed, 06 January 2016, 03:22:19 »
Confimed converter works with Infinity 60% from Massdrop, which is installed official HaaTa's kiibohd firmware. This keyboard sends key activities in NKRO but can speak also in 6KRO mode if host(converter) requests.

Converter is likely to work with NKRO keyboards if they are designed decently.
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Offline hasu

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Re: USB to USB keyboard converter
« Reply #99 on: Wed, 13 January 2016, 00:55:54 »
USB to USB converter supports TMK keymap editor now!



Try it here.
http://www.tmk-kbd.com/tmk_keyboard/editor/usb_usb/

And Space Fn keymap, for example.
http://bit.ly/1OqgvMn
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