[GB] GMK Triumph Adler. Pics posted...

[reformingpanda]

intelli79:

I think you're letting the haters get the best of you.  I think you've done a magnificent job managing this buy, especially considering the number of compromises made to give it the best chance of making MOQ.  You've taken a hard look at what works and doesn't work and made decisions solely for the purpose of getting the set made.  That's leadership.

I don't have any worries that the set will have enough orders to get made, but you know as well as I do that an "everything else" pack has little chance of success, let alone smaller packs.  With such a high MOQ, there just isn't enough demand to warrant them.  Just a very vocal minority.  Proportionally, the number of people saying "No Nordic layout, I'm out!" is just minuscule.  I feel like you're offering this option to get people off your back even though you know it's going to prove fruitless in the end.

Then again, what the hell do I know?  I'm getting my set, that's all I really care about.

[cjhard]

Hint hint to all the people, you can buy more qty now and resell to suckers who lost out on the base set but totally want in on the Everything Else pack later.

i can already see the WTB posts in the classifieds after the mod set drops  )

Just imagine the WTS threads.

Posted by: Elrick
[WTS] entire hoard of GMK Triumph Adler. I bought 120 base sets. You pay S&H.

[ideus]

Let the drop follows its course. Open an IC on add-on sets to be offered if the drop is successful; otherwise, there is no reason for follow ups.

I like this idea. Maybe I can get all the packs and renders prepared ASAP, to show off.

We'll just say, "if the GB is successful, we'll do a follow buy for all these, with X MOQ at Y price, can't guarantee what will happen, but we will offer the chance."

That's pretty solid.

By all means it is. Everybody will have a chance to get what exotic key they want.

[pr0ximity]

Well I for one think the Windows keys look great!

[Willyc277]

In for a set no matter what! Thanks intelli79!!

[VinnyCordeiro]

(...), design by committee, (...)

The 3-word combination that I despise most. I vote the third way: keep everything as it is. And I say that being an ISO keyboard user.

[intelli78]

You've taken a hard look at what works and doesn't work and made decisions solely for the purpose of getting the set made.  That's leadership.

Thanks... that is indeed what I have been trying to do.

I don't have any worries that the set will have enough orders to get made, but you know as well as I do that an "everything else" pack has little chance of success, let alone smaller packs.  With such a high MOQ, there just isn't enough demand to warrant them.  Just a very vocal minority.  Proportionally, the number of people saying "No Nordic layout, I'm out!" is just minuscule.  I feel like you're offering this option to get people off your back even though you know it's going to prove fruitless in the end.

You're not wrong, and I am not shy to say it. I think it'll be a huge flop, maybe you'll get one pack passed, maybe none. But I am willing to do it to ram the lesson down people's throats since they seem unwilling to take it any other way. Perhaps it'll clear the path for future GBs so there isn't as much whining.

Of course, there is also the off chance that a nice ISO pack or something DOES meet MOQ, in which case I am happy to be proved wrong, and that is also valuable info to have for the future.

But yes,  overall people just aren't getting the message that adding niche keys is a slippery slope and losing battle, so I feel like I have to prove it to everyone now. I don't mean to sound arrogant or pessimistic, I am just being realistic.

[intelli78]

(...), design by committee, (...)

The 3-word combination that I despise most.

Could not agree more, but see my previous post for my reasoning.

[nathanrosspowell]

intelli78 and co., thanks and congrats for getting this project to the GB stage!

I can't believe there are adults here whining about missing keys or intolerable profiles. The people behind this openly debated all kinds of topics and where transparent to the fact that they knew not everyone in the world could be pleased. Now that time has passed and we are at the GB stage. Making changes to accommodate you and your vocal minority/silent majority would impact every single person who has already gone in on the set. Please stop being so short sighted. It doesn't matter if other GB's have made last minute changes in the past, it doesn't matter if other GMK sets have been all R4 profiled bottom row... it's up on MassDrop and it's locked.

If you think a custom coloured GMK set (or any set) with more profile option, Nordic support, qwertz layout etc. would be popular then roll up your sleeves and get an Interest Check going and we will all come an support your efforts 

[VinnyCordeiro]

(...), design by committee, (...)

The 3-word combination that I despise most.

Could not agree more, but see my previous post for my reasoning.

I read it. And I agree with everything.

[intelli78]

intelli78 and co., thanks and congrats for getting this project to the GB stage!

I can't believe there are adults here whining about missing keys or intolerable profiles. The people behind this openly debated all kinds of topics and where transparent to the fact that they knew not everyone in the world could be pleased. Now that time has passed and we are at the GB stage. Making changes to accommodate you and your vocal minority/silent majority would impact every single person who has already gone in on the set. Please stop being so short sighted. It doesn't matter if other GB's have made last minute changes in the past, it doesn't matter if other GMK sets have been all R4 profiled bottom row... it's up on MassDrop and it's locked.

If you think a custom coloured GMK set (or any set) with more profile option, Nordic support, qwertz layout etc. would be popular then roll up your sleeves and get an Interest Check going and we will all come an support your efforts 

There is a 0% chance of modifying what's already for sale. The only thing potentially on the table is adding additional option(s), and having heard ideus's thoughts, yes it would be AFTER the current buy ends.

[nathanrosspowell]

intelli78 and co., thanks and congrats for getting this project to the GB stage!

I can't believe there are adults here whining about missing keys or intolerable profiles. The people behind this openly debated all kinds of topics and where transparent to the fact that they knew not everyone in the world could be pleased. Now that time has passed and we are at the GB stage. Making changes to accommodate you and your vocal minority/silent majority would impact every single person who has already gone in on the set. Please stop being so short sighted. It doesn't matter if other GB's have made last minute changes in the past, it doesn't matter if other GMK sets have been all R4 profiled bottom row... it's up on MassDrop and it's locked.

If you think a custom coloured GMK set (or any set) with more profile option, Nordic support, qwertz layout etc. would be popular then roll up your sleeves and get an Interest Check going and we will all come an support your efforts 

There is a 0% chance of modifying what's already for sale. The only thing potentially on the table is adding additional option(s), and having heard ideus's thoughts, yes it would be AFTER the current buy ends.

I know that! 

I was suggesting that people who want something that isn't on offer in this GB to go and spearhead their own IC 

[intelli78]

That will work for me as well 

[VinnyCordeiro]

intelli78 and co., thanks and congrats for getting this project to the GB stage!

I can't believe there are adults here whining about missing keys or intolerable profiles. The people behind this openly debated all kinds of topics and where transparent to the fact that they knew not everyone in the world could be pleased. Now that time has passed and we are at the GB stage. Making changes to accommodate you and your vocal minority/silent majority would impact every single person who has already gone in on the set. Please stop being so short sighted. It doesn't matter if other GB's have made last minute changes in the past, it doesn't matter if other GMK sets have been all R4 profiled bottom row... it's up on MassDrop and it's locked.

If you think a custom coloured GMK set (or any set) with more profile option, Nordic support, qwertz layout etc. would be popular then roll up your sleeves and get an Interest Check going and we will all come an support your efforts 

There is a 0% chance of modifying what's already for sale. The only thing potentially on the table is adding additional option(s), and having heard ideus's thoughts, yes it would be AFTER the current buy ends.

IF add-on keys are subject to popular demand, I'll want to add all 8 keys that would make this set ABNT2-compatible. (Of course I have to hope that all of them are possible to be made doubleshot, but one can hope.)

[heedpantsnow]

Oh great I can see it now:
I would like a "Windeaux" key, spelled just like that. I think a lot of Louisiana French-Southern descent keyboardists would agree.

[intelli78]

Oh great I can see it now:
I would like a "Windeaux" key, spelled just like that. I think a lot of Louisiana French-Southern descent keyboardists would agree.

Haha...

To be clear, this is not an open invitation to add whatever. I'm talking about all the usual suspects that have already been discussed.

[strict]

I vote for one Giant pack with all reasonable keys, but I also agree that it should take place after this GB finishes. If we do go this route I will likely double my order of base sets to sell off (with interest) once the add-on pack buy begins 

Regarding the add-on pack, is it possible to have a higher price but with a lower MOQ? I would easily spend $50-75 if it meant getting a pack of keys to normalize the profiles and legends.

[ideus]

The add-on pack should be kept within reasonable boundaries of keys, profiles and "colors"; for example, some special colored enter, escape keys may attract general attention turning them into an actual feasible GB; otherwise, exotic requests will make the add-on an unicorn, unlikely to reach MoQ, that will not benefit anybody.

[intelli78]

The add-on pack should be kept within reasonable boundaries of keys, profiles and "colors"; for example, some special colored enter, escape keys may attract general attention turning them into an actual feasible GB; otherwise, exotic requests will make the add-on an unicorn, unlikely to reach MoQ, that will not benefit anybody.

Right, but at the same time, if you cut back too much then you just end up with the same problem: those who are left out will whine. If it happens, probably best to do child deals so pretty much every "reasonable" key is at least on offer. OF course they're all going to flop, but it seems like nobody will accept this until we actually go through the motions.

[Nai_Calus]

This occurred to me as well. Perhaps we can spread the word and offer to do it, but only AFTER the base set is done; that forces people who think there is demand for their obscure layouts, to put their money where their mouth is. Could do the same way with child packs.

Yeah, after is better if you try to run something like that. Better to do one huge 'everything' pack I'd think. But of course that's assuming GMK goes for it, and I honestly really don't think it has the support - Look at all the tiny, cheap add-on packs from SP for specific layouts that consistently fail to tip again and again even with MOQs as low as 10.

TBH, looking at the numbers, Signature Plastics group buys have proven there isn't actually demand for these - Out of the last five completed SP group buys for full keysets, only 1976 had an ISO kit tip, and that only sold 17 units. A Deep Space blank ISO enter tipped, but not the actual ISO kit. Evergreen isn't looking like it's going to tip its ISO kit either. Out of all the ones listed on the page, only the following had an ISO kit or ISO Enter tip: 1976, Deep Space, Pulse, Nuclear Data, Granite, Skull Squadron. 6 out of 13 completed sets,  Out of those, by far the most successful ISO/alternate language showing was Granite - With 41 text ISO enter sets, 23 blank ISOs, 34 International DE/FR/IT kits, and 25 International NO/SW/FI/DK/ES/UK kits(Neither of which contains the ISO enter)

Even a lot of alternate layout/add-on packs don't tip on SP. I just don't see it it meeting MOQ. Maybe I'm wrong and between the alternate layouts and people wanting their country you'd get enough to tip a megapack of alternate keys.

Man, all this toxic hate because it doesn't have the perfect keys for everyone. I want a 6U spacebar because I have two boards that use them, a teal ~/` key for symmetry, a 2U R3 Control key, Win95 logo keys, I want PRTSC to say PrtSc or Print Screen, and Planck support. That's not going to happen, but it's not going to keep me from getting this, nor am I going to complain repeatedly that it's not exactly the way I want it. (Especially since AFAIK 6u GMK space doesn't exist in the first place so I wouldn't get it ever regardless. )

These keys are gorgeous, Intelli, and you've done a great job getting this set brought to life when people thought it couldn't be done. Don't let the haters get you down.

[ideus]

The add-on pack should be kept within reasonable boundaries of keys, profiles and "colors"; for example, some special colored enter, escape keys may attract general attention turning them into an actual feasible GB; otherwise, exotic requests will make the add-on an unicorn, unlikely to reach MoQ, that will not benefit anybody.

Right, but at the same time, if you cut back too much then you just end up with the same problem: those who are left out will whine. If it happens, probably best to do child deals so pretty much every "reasonable" key is at least on offer. OF course they're all going to flop, but it seems like nobody will accept this until we actually go through the motions.

You have proved to be an awesome mediator already with the main set, I am sure you will prove it again with the add-on(s) development. We should try to support you, instead of whining to make this, already successful GB, to turn into an awesome one. Let's do it.

[Prankk]

I feel this needs to be said. Intelli. You da real MVP for doing this. Thanks for all the hard work.

[motherbrain]

I will make a deal.
....
1. Make a giant "everything else" set to be sold alongside the base set.
2. I'll tally up all the extra wanted keys in the same way, but I'll split them into child packs. So you'll be able to get only what you want at a cheaper price.

I don't think you need to do either one, as this GB is awesome as-is.  And the price--seriously nice job on negotiating it under a C-note! 

I'd probably spend $ on extras if given the option, preferably an option that includes one or more potato keycaps.

[heedpantsnow]

I took a shower and my thoughts kept coming back to this situation (do my best thinking in that shower!).

I think this is a mistake. I don't think it will hit what will undoubtedly be a high MOQ (custom colors after all).

More importantly, I don't think it will teach the necessary lesson. What it will communicate is that if people whine and moan and toxic rage on a GB they can make changes happen even if it's too late or it had already been said "no changes" a billion times. And when it doesn't make MOQ they WON'T think it's because Intelli was right to not have done it in the first place. Our minds instantly go to the things that reinforce our established thinking, like "people are so stupid to not buy this" or "intelli didn't promote the add on enough bc he didn't want it" or whatever. So nothing will change in people's minds for the better but quite possibly could change for the worse.

Anyway, my $.02. Don't do it dude.

[Wilba]

Agreed. A camel is a horse designed by committee. You managed to design a very attractive horse, with a small bump on his back. While I would have preferred more homogeneity with existing GMK sets (and totally do not understand the attraction in copying non-aesthetic quirks for the sake of authenticity), the fact that this is attempting to recreate a rare vintage set by using the buying power of the masses, kind of justifies it, and I see the reasoning behind it.

The argument will always be "you should have done X in the main deal" so why bother with all this child deal stuff... it won't prove your point, and it won't satisfy the whiners.

[Elrick]

OF course they're all going to flop, but it seems like nobody will accept this until we actually go through the motions.

You see Intelli78, you are going through what all other GREAT organizers go through - the self doubt, the remorse, recriminations by a tiny few who think they're not listened to and of course the despondency in actually going through with this.

This is where you are tested to the maximum with every type of behaviour coming from an enormous amount of strangers and so-called friends.  The trick is to maintain the ORIGINAL thought and design of your key-set and to keep faith with it.  This is almost like a crusade to prove your worthiness to run an actual Group Buy via Massdrop and you will have everything thrown at you to dissuade your basic belief in yourself.

In the end it will all come down to your permanent trust in seeing this through.  ALL GREAT GMK Group Buys travel that same road through doubters and disbelievers that will scream at you for ignoring their desires but in the end it all comes down to the finished product.  This will be the most venerated "Triumph Adler" key-set available for 2015 and it just may be the last version of it ever seen again due to the preconditions connected with ordering from GMK.

BunnyLake will tell you (my own personal viewpoint) to maintain the faith and keep positive because there are far more of us here who believe in you and this TA version than you will ever know.  So don't take to heart any negativity because the ones that are so fond of displaying this type of behaviour are far too few to even bother thinking about.

[heedpantsnow]

OF course they're all going to flop, but it seems like nobody will accept this until we actually go through the motions.

You see Intelli78, you are going through what all other GREAT organizers go through - the self doubt, the remorse, recriminations by a tiny few who think they're not listened to and of course the depression in actually going through with this.

This is where you are tested to the maximum with every type of behaviour coming from an enormous amount of strangers and so-called friends.  The trick is to maintain the ORIGINAL thought and design of your key-set and to keep faith with it.  This is almost like a crusade to prove your worthiness to run an actual Group Buy via Massdrop and you will have everything thrown at you to dissuade your basic belief in yourself.

In the end it will all come down to your permanent trust in seeing this through.  ALL GREAT GMK Group Buys travel that same road through doubters and disbelievers that will scream at you for ignoring their desires but in the end it all comes down to the finished product.  This will be the most venerated "Triumph Adler" key-set available for 2015 and it just may be the last version of it ever seen again due to the preconditions connected with ordering from GMK.

BunnyLake will tell you (my own personal viewpoint) to maintain the faith and keep positive because there are far more of us here who believe in you and this TA version than you will ever know.  So don't take to heart any negativity because the ones that are so fond of displaying this type of behaviour are far too few to even bother thinking about.

The Great Elrick has spoken!

[motherbrain]

OF course they're all going to flop, but it seems like nobody will accept this until we actually go through the motions.

You see Intelli78, you are going through what all other GREAT organizers go through - the self doubt, the remorse, recriminations by a tiny few who think they're not listened to and of course the depression in actually going through with this.

This is where you are tested to the maximum with every type of behaviour coming from an enormous amount of strangers and so-called friends.  The trick is to maintain the ORIGINAL thought and design of your key-set and to keep faith with it.  This is almost like a crusade to prove your worthiness to run an actual Group Buy via Massdrop and you will have everything thrown at you to dissuade your basic belief in yourself.

In the end it will all come down to your permanent trust in seeing this through.  ALL GREAT GMK Group Buys travel that same road through doubters and disbelievers that will scream at you for ignoring their desires but in the end it all comes down to the finished product.  This will be the most venerated "Triumph Adler" key-set available for 2015 and it just may be the last version of it ever seen again due to the preconditions connected with ordering from GMK.

BunnyLake will tell you (my own personal viewpoint) to maintain the faith and keep positive because there are far more of us here who believe in you and this TA version than you will ever know.  So don't take to heart any negativity because the ones that are so fond of displaying this type of behaviour are far too few to even bother thinking about.

The Great Elrick has spoken!

agreed.  you shouldn't change a thing.  you don't need the stress that would accompany the changes.  catch-22, as it will never be good enough for everyone.

[bueller]

Oh absolutely, these are all valid concerns to bring up in the IC phase of the buy, no doubt about that.  And heck, I agree with many of the complaints being mentioned in this thread.  But the fact of the matter is that there will absolutely not be any more changes, so what's the point?  At this point it's bordering on threadcrapping.  Either buy it or don't, it's your choice, but there's nothing to be gained from complaining.

Absolutely. This.

I was completely transparent about EVERYTHING during the IC. If you didn't notice legends, A-profile keys, or anything else, that's on you. It was all in the render and explained verbatim in the IC OP for months. Somebody said it's "different than we thought it would be." Not true, it's all there, in exhaustive detail. Go look. I assumed there was no debate because everyone was fine with it.

To be fair, you made SO MANY changes to that OP and render without mentioning them in the thread. Almost every time I checked it there were new changes, how the hell are people supposed to keep up? Personally I agree with a lot of what JD has said. Look at the winkeys for an example - until I brought that up no-one had a clue we were getting pad-printed ones.

Honestly man I respect what you've done with this GB but it pisses me off that you can't handle constructive criticism. You were dismissive as hell about the winkeys when I first brought it up and it wasn't until everyone else jumped on board that you finally relented and went with what people actually wanted.

[rand77]

Thank you intelli78 for you all efforts with this GB.   I'm really looking forward to receiving my set.

The funny thing is that I've never actually used ABS keycaps for any long period of time, I've immediately replaced stock keycaps with PBT.   Do I have to worry about shine / textures issues in the long run on a set like this?    Or do they hold up better than regular ABS keycaps?

I'm trying to justify if I should get 2 sets

[Elrick]

Do I have to worry about shine / textures issues in the long run on a set like this?    Or do they hold up better than regular ABS keycaps?

This German made ABS is quite sturdy, the only way of approaching a perfect shine/glossy finish on these babies is to rub some 1200 wet and dry over it for several hours then you'll get a shiny finish.  In real terms you would have to type daily on this key-set for 12 hours and continue that shift for another 12 years.

If you can survive that type of intense usage you shall then get a glossy finish on these keys  .

[Willyc277]

Oh great I can see it now:
I would like a "Windeaux" key, spelled just like that. I think a lot of Louisiana French-Southern descent keyboardists would agree.

10/10 would buy.


Do you have any Cajun/creole heritage?

[whentheclouds]

does any Canuck here have prior experience with MD? what kind of extra fees should i expect if there are any?

[nubbinator]

154 more to go live.  Just a hair under 70% of the way there.

[Joey Quinn]

154 more to go live.  Just a hair under 70% of the way there.

I feel like more awesome GMK would hit MOQ if the sets spent as long in the IC stage as this did.

Also if we spaced them out a bit.

[byker]

does any Canuck here have prior experience with MD? what kind of extra fees should i expect if there are any?

It is hit or miss on if you get hit by customs, not really up to MD. I haven't been hit on customs by anything that I have bought on MD, but some friends have.

[rand77]

does any Canuck here have prior experience with MD? what kind of extra fees should i expect if there are any?

Most like nothing since they now ship USPS to Canada.  There is always possibility of getting hit with taxes for higher value items.   It seems like 90% of packages go through without getting checked by customs.

[madhias]

does any Canuck here have prior experience with MD? what kind of extra fees should i expect if there are any?

If you don't have to pay customs were you are located, you should have no problem. I am not sure if they had some problems with wrong keys (at the Granite Round 2 GB).

I had to pay way too much customs, since they wrote wrong values onto the package.

[kacase]

To be fair, you made SO MANY changes to that OP and render without mentioning them in the thread. Almost every time I checked it there were new changes, how the hell are people supposed to keep up? Personally I agree with a lot of what JD has said. Look at the winkeys for an example - until I brought that up no-one had a clue we were getting pad-printed ones.

Honestly man I respect what you've done with this GB but it pisses me off that you can't handle constructive criticism. You were dismissive as hell about the winkeys when I first brought it up and it wasn't until everyone else jumped on board that you finally relented and went with what people actually wanted.

I completely agree with bueller. The IC Thread was extremely confusing. The only way to find out what the set would be in the end was to battle ones way through all the posts in the IC. The first post was being updated, but still didn't include all the information; some bits were inaccurate and some not stressed enough.

Want to know something? I didn't even want to use A-profile keys at all. I argued against it and only conceded eventually because Photekq wanted it and he helped me so much. (And that is in no way an invitation to flame him, I am 100% behind him.) If I can get over it, and the winkey, and a handful of other things, so can you.

Here's the bottom line: this isn't the set for you. Don't buy it. Just don't mess up this thread, and especially don't mess up the Massdrop comments. I would never in a million years do this to you with one of your projects and I I think you know that. Please return the courtesy.

Same goes to everyone else who has a dealbreaker and feels the need to shout about it. I'm very sorry. But the decisions have been made. We aren't going back now; we can't. Time to move on.

The thing that I probably find worst is that you apparently made the A Profile decision just "because photekq wanted it". In all other posts you stressed how all decisions were influenced by the IC and then you let personal favours get the better of you. In a project such as a group buy with over 500 participants this should totally not happen. You have to agree that the criticism of vast majority in this thread (90% about the different profiles) is valid.

It is of course too late now to make changes to the keyset and I don't think an "extras set" will ever meet the MOQ. But please next time consider the profile of the keys yourself. I can't be the only one thinking that even on a "standard" 105 ANSII keyboard different profiles in the same row look weird and out of place and I'm shocked that it wouldn't occur to you to decide on something that is best for most, on a topic this important (saying its just a few mm, when a keycap is only a few mm high is not really a justification), but you made the choice based on what one person wanted. I am sure Photekq helped you a lot and I am extremely grateful that you organized this group buy (you must have invested a huge amount of time), but the GB was ultimately designed for the 500+ people making it happen; call me perfectionist but 450 people with straight profiles is better than 50 people with straight profile.

Enough criticism, because I am actually looking forward to getting my hands on these caps. But I hope you understand my thoughts and will be wiser next time.

After all. Life is but one great adventure.

[LechnerDE]

I actually didn't want to comment on this situation, but I feel the complaining is getting out of hand.

There is absolutely no way things will change at this stage of the GB, so please stop demanding extra keys or other changes. If you don't like the current set then don't buy it - it's that simple.

I can only imagine how frustrating this must be for Intelli after he put so much work into this.  Many thought custom colors would be impossible with GMK, but he proved everybody wrong!

Concerning the addon pack: I can only advise you NOT do it. It won't prove anything, because people will claim it failed because the "right" keys were not included in the base set. You can't win so just ignore it. It's not worth bothering GMK for new mockups for extras that are going to fail...


Having said this, I have ordered 2 sets.

Thanks for all the efforts Intelli - don't let the vocal minority get to you 

[azhdar]

I will make a deal.

We're not changing the base set, but I'm willing to do one of two things.

1. Make a giant "everything else" set to be sold alongside the base set.

I'll comb through the IC, through the DT thread, through this thread, through Massdrop and reddit comments. I'll add every key that's been requested that makes a lick of sense to add. All the requested euro languages, alternate row 4 modfiiers, winkeys, hhkb, 1800, blanks, you name it.

We launch it as a drop in a few days time, so it has plenty of time to run alongside this one.

Everybody who wanted to add their own keys will get a chance, but they will reap what they sow: a high price and a high MOQ.

It will be a chance to put your money where your mouth is.

2. I'll tally up all the extra wanted keys in the same way, but I'll split them into child packs. So you'll be able to get only what you want at a cheaper price. Trade-off: it'll be highly fragmented and still have high MOQs, I doubt many packs will make it, if any. Not that the mega-pack would have a great chance either.

=======================

I'll make the decision about (1) or (2) purely democratically. Have a vote, I'll defer to the masses completely. Then we'll do it ASAP, provided I can get Massdrop on board.

Then there can be NO further B1TCHING from ANYONE, no matter what the outcome is. Agreed? The community decides which approach to take, design by committee, and then everyone has equity of opportunity to purchase the keys he/she wants. Success proves the demand is there. Failure proves it's not. It doesn't get any more meritocratic.

This will be a referendum for the future as well, to gauge what keys actually have demand.

I don't predict it will be a success either way but I'll do it however you guys think will be best.

Asking for an inter kit:

[Joey Quinn]

I actually didn't want to comment on this situation, but I feel the complaining is getting out of hand.

There is absolutely no way things will change at this stage of the GB, so please stop demanding extra keys or other changes. If you don't like the current set then don't buy it - it's that simple.

I can only imagine how frustrating this must be for Intelli after he put so much work into this.  Many thought custom colors would be impossible with GMK, but he proved everybody wrong!

Concerning the addon pack: I can only advise you NOT do it. It won't prove anything, because people will claim it failed because the "right" keys were not included in the base set. You can't win so just ignore it. It's not worth bothering GMK for new mockups for extras that are going to fail...


Having said this, I have ordered 2 sets.

Thanks for all the efforts Intelli - don't let the vocal minority get to you 

I'm definitely on board the stop asking for more caps train. Lets not jeopardize this GB by trying to complicate it. 

[Jokrik]

I actually didn't want to comment on this situation, but I feel the complaining is getting out of hand.

There is absolutely no way things will change at this stage of the GB, so please stop demanding extra keys or other changes. If you don't like the current set then don't buy it - it's that simple.

I can only imagine how frustrating this must be for Intelli after he put so much work into this.  Many thought custom colors would be impossible with GMK, but he proved everybody wrong!

Concerning the addon pack: I can only advise you NOT do it. It won't prove anything, because people will claim it failed because the "right" keys were not included in the base set. You can't win so just ignore it. It's not worth bothering GMK for new mockups for extras that are going to fail...


Having said this, I have ordered 2 sets.

Thanks for all the efforts Intelli - don't let the vocal minority get to you 

I'm definitely on board the stop asking for more caps train. Lets not jeopardize this GB by trying to complicate it.

+1
no matter what's in the set, it's an amazing color array, effort and thoughts
my way: find a keyboard that would suit the set, not the otherwise

g80-3000 here I come

[intelli78]

The criticism about the IC thread is just rubbish. Everything was available for public commentary; the render has shown R5 keys and it's been explained in the OP for months. It was all on paper, there was no deception whatsoever, only people who weren't careful and now want to point fingers to avoid taking responsibility for their own failure to pay attention to things that are apparently dealbreakers to them. Everyone had months--literally--to comment. I've got no sympathy.

And leave Photekq out of it, all decisions were ultimately mine, and he is in no way responsible for any of it. <3

I took a long walk this evening to clear my head on this issue. On one hand I genuinely feel for folks who are bummed about missing keys, and I have an urge to try to help make it right.

On the other hand, I am just really over all the drama. It's really a god damn shame that some GHers have lost perspective on this set and are trying to turn a revolutionary GB (imperfect as all GBs are) into a whinge fest and a net negative for the community. F*** that noise, I won't let it happen.

This set is gonna kick ass, and the hundreds of people already in the buy are proof of that. The whinging minority here is not going to get the best of this buy. I am glad I floated the idea of extra keys, because it generated some very wise comments.

So with that, there will be no additional keys or further tampering with the GB. Case closed, period. I am washing my hands of it, the only thing left is to blast through 500 and sell as many sets as possible.  After that, anyone who wants to spearhead an add-on effort has my full blessing, but it's not going to be me. The folks in this thread are right; there will be no winning by scrambling now, all it will do is alter the criticisms and teach people to rage on future GB organizers even harder. My only regret is wavering at all in the face of this whining. Anybody who paid attention to the IC knows that while I am stubborn, I did listen to the feedback I heard and compromised on it. As to the feedback that never happened, it's too late now.

Any additional requests for changes or complaining about keys are, at this point, 100% threadcrapping. So if you want to do that, I highly, highly suggesting just clicking out of the thread instead and voting with your wallet.

[ninjadoc]

intelli78

Thank you for running this in an economic and well thought out fashion. You listened to all the suggestions you received and worked out a comprimise that seemed to work with most people. Anyone who is complaining should have given there opinion earlier in the IC thread. I didn't read it all; has anyone besides Inteil78 done so? You spent a lot of time, money , and hard work on this group buy and I can't say thank you enough. Try not to let the whining get to you anymore, you can never please everyone. I and the mechanical keyboard community appreciate your work! Cheers, and have a good day.

[Elrick]

The folks in this thread are right; there will be no winning by scrambling now, all it will do is alter the criticisms and teach people to rage on future GB organizers even harder. My only regret is wavering at all in the face of this whining. Anybody who paid attention to the IC knows that while I am stubborn, I did listen to the feedback I heard and compromised on it. As to the feedback that never happened, it's too late now.

Any additional requests for changes or complaining about keys are, at this point, 100% threadcrapping. So if you want to do that, I highly, highly suggesting just clicking out of the thread instead and voting with your wallet.

Here here good Sir, good to see you have that determined spirit like an American Pitbull, take no sh1t from any intruder and of course to rip him a new arsehole if he persists  .

[mz/x]

To intelli78:

I know that you had to deal with all other urgent questions ...
Have you had any chance to find out whether MD can mark the package to Europe (including the UK) as re-import perhaps with zero duty value please?

[intelli78]

To intelli78:

I know that you had to deal with all other urgent questions ...
Have you had any chance to find out whether MD can mark the package to Europe (including the UK) as re-import perhaps with zero duty value please?

No... I must have missed your reply. I don't remember getting a clear answer to the question: Is this import duty something separate from VAT? VAT is unavoidable but if it's something else, I can bring it up to them again.

[Polymer]

I'd like to just say, great job in getting this organized...set looks great and using Massdrop was a great idea. I do hope you hit the MOQ..

At the same time, if you're going to organize something like this, you really do need to grow thicker skin.

It is perfectly legitimate for someone to question something..and especially with MD, people should understand what it is they're buying.  There are probably quite a few people that don't quite understand what R4/R5 means and don't understand what they're buying.  If your product can't stand up to a few legitimate questions then there is something wrong.  If you fully believe in the set, there shouldn't be any issues explaining what is there and why and leave it like that.  There is no other justifications needed.  You're not helping your cause (getting this GB to MOQ) by biting back at people..

For the people complaining - Why not see if Intelli can get something done on the side as part of this from an overall perspective but not done on MD(or maybe done with MD).  The custom color is being used so GMK has an incentive to make more keys.  Most of the ALT/CTRL keys are doubled so that should help the MOQ...Maybe you can get concession for the Menu Key (or just have 500 of each keys made up which makes 250 sets but the run is made up of 500 sets of 1 x CTRL, 1 x ALT 1 x Win 1 x Menu).  If you can get it cheap enough maybe you can pull this off easily...

Personally, I think the set looks great..if not for the Hyperfuse GMK I'd be all over this...and if it gets close to MOQ I'll just go in to help out..

[intelli78]

If your product can't stand up to a few legitimate questions then there is something wrong.  If you fully believe in the set, there shouldn't be any issues explaining what is there and why and leave it like that.

The product does stand up to questioning. This was an intentional design, and was completely transparent from the start. I have absolutely no problem explaining this feature to anyone and everyone in the buy. You can go read my explanation in the IC thread right now.  What's making me salty is that it's just a vocal minority stirring up discontent about one aspect of this giant set, months late, when everything is already locked in. It's completely missing the forest for the trees. In life, few products fit one's needs 100%. This is no different. It's one aspect of something that is very awesome, and it's simply impossible to please everyone. Folks on GH should know this. The issue has gotten blown way out of proportion, to the point where it's threatening to overshadow the basic fact that we are getting something we never thought possible a few months ago.

This isn't national politics with lives and welfare at stake. It's a Cherry MX keycap set that's uber cheap for what you're getting. Perfection is not attainable and life will go on. Can't handle it, vote with your wallet.

As for the other keys you mentioned, it's no longer on the table. The set is going to go forward as planned.