To Bruce: Filco Tenkeyless enquiry

[jkkhop]

Would it be possible for you to get more Filco Tenkeyless keyboards, other than the ZERO model? I'm desperate to get one with the Cherry MX Black switches, but the importing costs from the US turn me off.

Looking forward to your answer.

Jukka

[jkkhop]

Why are you acting like a jerk? Where exactly I said that I expect others to "jump to my attention"? This is a company that imports these keyboards and I just asked if it was possible for them to import a specific model which happens to be one of the most popular keyboards of this specific brand, on a forum board which was created for this purpose. "Do not hesitate to ask anything", I believe iMav said that. And it's not like I'm demanding anything from them, more like asking if they will have it and when.

Also, if you don't happen to know, there are other advantages to buying it from UK instead of US than that "twenty dollars" that you referred to.

So piss off.

[rdjack21]

He is not acting like a jerk. He is just being webwit. Besides the tenkeyless board comes standard with brown cherry switches. All other switches are special order only and you have to purchase a bunch of them to get it even then. For instance the only reason elitekeyboards has boards with blue cherry switches is because they placed a special order for them and then purchased a bunch of them. elitekeyboards was willing to do this because we convinced them that there was enough demand for them.

[jkkhop]

Guess what.. I do not have a job at the moment, unlike like many people here do. So I don't deserve my Filco keyboard if I don't pay 210 dollars and try to shave some unnecessary costs off of it so I don't have to eat crackers for rest of the month?

Let's say they ordered these keyboards because I asked for it and Bruce would let me know. So your saying I would be careless enough to go and buy it from 2nd hand instead. Just for you to know, I was about -><- this close to say in the start post that I could pre-order and pay it if they could get it in reasonable time.

[wellington1869]

He is not acting like a jerk. He is just being webwit.

lol!

jk, webwit has his good days and his bad days, dont take it personally cuz it wont do any good

[wellington1869]

Guess what.. I do not have a job at the moment, unlike like many people here do. So I don't deserve my Filco keyboard if I don't pay 210 dollars and try to shave some unnecessary costs off of it so I don't have to eat crackers for rest of the month?

dude, you're only encouraging him. you dont have to defend your finances to anyone here.

[InSanCen]

Guess what.. I do not have a job at the moment, unlike like many people here do. So I don't deserve my Filco keyboard if I don't pay 210 dollars and try to shave some unnecessary costs off of it so I don't have to eat crackers for rest of the month?

Erm... if you don't have a job, what the hell are you doing buying Top end keyboards? (Much as I would like Bruce to get the business).

The Dole must be paying well these days...

[Bruce]

We are planning on getting Tenkeyless with Blues, Browns and Blacks.
All within the next month or so. They will be USA layout only for now though.

[jkkhop]

InSanCen: it's enough to get by with, though I'm not buying keyboards, only a keyboard.


Great news Bruce! The ANSI layout is fine.

[Bruce]

Pre-Orders are good for me. Thanks. Just PM me or email me at the office.

If we get firm interest in anything Filco we will always be happy to see what can done. Diatec are very helpful and supportive, they are keen to see that Europe is as well served as anywhere else and we are committed to this also. It's my job to see that this is all done properly and in a sustainable (Alright - profitable) way so I am having to string it out a little, but the Filco range we hold in stock will widen over the coming months.

[maxlugar]

Why are you acting like a jerk?

So piss off.

He may be a jerk, but he's our jerk  

[Rajagra]

to save twenty dollars

$40 US->EU postage or more.
Maybe 10% duty on (original cost + postage)
15% VAT on all above.
Courier charges an admin fee of whatever they like for the 'service' of charging you the tax and forwarding it to Mr Taxman.

Sometimes the cost of the keyboard is a tiny fraction of the final cost. (Think of all those $15 Model Ms on US ebay, and what it would cost to get them here, it makes me cry.)

It might be affordable, but it feels so ... wrong, like flushing money down the kharzi.

[lal]

We are planning on getting Tenkeyless with Blues, Browns and Blacks.
All within the next month or so. They will be USA layout only for now though.

What about Fukka ALPS?

Note: this is no pre-order, just an enquiry

[wellington1869]

What about Fukka ALPS?

Note: this is no pre-order, just an enquiry

i was curious too but you might want to wait until theres a bit more clarity on the scan rate issue Particularly if there's a 'no return' policy.

[lal]

i was curious too but you might want to wait until theres a bit more clarity on the scan rate issue Particularly if there's a 'no return' policy.

Yeah, I'd probably not buy it during the next 2 months anyway.  I follow that discussion with interest.  Thanks for the reminder

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Just curious on the odds of UK layout tenkeyless keyboards ever arriving?

I am warming the idea of just ditching the number pad, but switching between UK and US layouts is too annoying (rather like when I was switching between my Mac and PC, the former having Apple's bastardised UK layout with some characters in their US positions).

[ch_123]

I'd say that would depend on the popularity of the Filcos that they are currently getting into stock.

I should warn you by the way, there are very few British or Irish Geekhackers who don't switch over to the US layout after a few months in this place...

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Fair point about the prospect of tenkeyless keyboards.

I've already found ways to reduce my numpad usage, including installing Autohotkey to map en dash, em dash and bullet to ctrl+alt+-, ctrl+alt+shift+- and ctrl-shift-8 respectively, just as on the Macintosh, to complement the unmaintained but excellent UK International keyboard layout. (This reduces my reliance on alt-numpad{nnnn} codes.)

And yes, tis true, there are various keyboards that would be interesting to try, including the ASK-6600 (sounds glorious, those ALPS switches) that are US layout only. However, switching layout repeatedly (between different machines) comes at a cost of perpetual annoyance, and the physical layouts are not compatible.

That said, I believe that I need to rule out a clicky at work, and likewise at home I think it would interfere with music too much as well as disturb people trying to sleep. Therefore, that rules out most keyboards anyway! Even non-clicky ALPS sound very loud, and I think my only options are brown Cherry or Topre, and for a blind purchase over the Internet, a RealForce is far too expensive. And I want absolutely nothing to do with eBay.

If I had decent soundproofing at home and work, allowing me to use the same keyswitch in both places without the twice-daily reacclimatisation process I have now just for scissor vs full travel rubber dome, and eBay wasn't made of scum, I'd be more interested in experimentation -- I'd love to play with what's out there and compare.

As it stands, I'm just trying to scrape up the courage to grab a FILCO brown Cherry 105-key in mid-Jan and hope for the best (esp. as I've got to pay for NKRO when I have no need for that).

I'm half wondering whether to get one blue and one brown, prove whether or not blue is as bad as people say (my work Dell keyboard is a complete rattletrap!!) and flog the other one here in the classifieds.

Sorry, another long ramble :-) I am a southerner with the soul of a penny-pinching northerner. I will spend money where needed, but keyboards are a matter of personal taste ...

[ch_123]

My switchover to the US layout was greatly aided by the fact that some ill-configured machines in my college that we had to use for labs had UK kyeboards, but the US keyboard layout applied, and were locked down in such a way that prevented you changing it. I became quite adept at switching between the US and UK layout, such that I can use either effortlessly once I realized that I'm using one or the other.

Physical layout? The ANSI (US) one is much better in my opinion, but I can still use the ISO (European) one without much effort. Again, changing between them is something that sounds much more difficult than it really is.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Well, I used to switch regularly between a Mac and a PC. Apple's UK layout leaves " and @ in their US positions and it was an endless source of confusion for me as to just where those symbols actually were.

To switch permanently to a US layout wouldn't be a problem for me if I was entitled at home and at work to only ever use US keyboards on both local and remote machines (and for some reason remote access software tends to transmit keycodes not characters so if the remote layout is different you don't get what you type).

For me, sticking to the UK PC layout is for the best.

If your brain has a swift change time, then all the better for you.

[InSanCen]

I'd say that would depend on the popularity of the Filcos that they are currently getting into stock.

I should warn you by the way, there are very few British or Irish Geekhackers who don't switch over to the US layout after a few months in this place...

I will Stick with the UK ISO layout! (He says typing this on an M13 with a US ANSI layout!).

Seriously, my brain just goes blonde when looking for slashes and other lesser-used characters.

Oh, and Bruce, this is not, for once, me expressing interest in another of your (potential) products. I'll be keeping my numberpad.

[Lenny_Nero]

I use a Filco Tenkeyless, but I just have the UK layout set in everything (OS wize), so yeah the 2 key has the @ above (which is really above ' next to the execute/return key) but it puts out the " and there are a few more transposed, but its not such a big deal in the long run. I just know where most of them are and doubt that you will notice after some time.

But I have my dads blue Alps switched board that still has the pencilled in true characters above and next to the keys (or on a bit of masking tape) if you feel the need to do so.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

If was going to pencil and stick tape all over it I'd just get one of those fugly Cherry keyboards for not much over half the price :-P

I'm seriously considering getting one blue MX, one brown MX, and try both; my father has expressed interest in having the spare (to replace a truly horrid Cherry rubber dome), or I may take it to work, or a friend might be interested in a mechanical modern NKRO given the chance to use it first hand (he's kept an old rubber dome for years that does acceptable rollover, and is less keen on replacing his keyboard than I am with my scissor). It would be safer for me to just get the full 105-key with a standard layout.

[Lenny_Nero]

Well it all depends on how well you can remember where the keys are, if its not a problem just run the layout you want as I do ...if not have some tape on it for a few weeks/days.

I mean after all some people have boards/keytops without anything on them.

[ch_123]

The problem with using the UK layout on a US keyboard is that you lose the |\ key. If you do any sort or programming or command line usage, you're going to have pretty serious problems.

[Rajagra]

And with a tenkeyless board you can't even use the numpad Alt 92 trick to generate the \ character.:Cry:

I wish Microsoft would change their US layout driver so the unused extra key from ISO boards acted as a $ key. (Maybe with shift generating ¢). You can bet that within a few months there would be 'enhanced' ANSI layout boards popping up all over the place, hopefully with the extra key in a more sensible place.

[ch_123]

Wait, Im confused. Do you want them to change the physical layout of the key, or do want to just have them map the buttons to different things?

[Rajagra]

Wait, Im confused. Do you want them to change the physical layout of the key, or do want to just have them map the buttons to different things?

What *I* want is ANSI keyboards, but with the extra key, placed somewhere that it doesn't spoil the layout.

I like the horizontal Enter key. I like the big Backspace key. Since the \ key is more remote, I like that it is enlarged. I like the big, easy to reach left shift key.

What I do not like is that if I plug a ANSI keyboard into local (UK) computers, it is partially useless because I can't type a \ symbol. (The UK keyboard driver converts that key to be a #, the extra key is the \, and if it isn't present, you can't type it easily.)

I just loaded up the US driver. When using a UK keyboard, both keys (\ and #) return a \. I suppose that's a safe choice, but duplicating a key is wasteful. Why not map something useful to it? A $/¢ combo would make sense, as the US is the native user of the layout.

[Lenny_Nero]

\\\\\\ Never really found that the lack of a  BS (\) much of a problem, I did spend 5 minutes looking for it the first time I fired up Lemmy \ Vi to sort some code, but just pulled it out of the chr$ map and make a macro¦remap as well as having it in clipmate.

Pipe is just the tilda\altgtr(ctrl+alt) key because in 90+% of things the | is classed the same as the BB ¦ .