Author Topic: Modify german (1391403) Model M to US (1391401) layout?  (Read 2762 times)

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Offline zangetsu

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Modify german (1391403) Model M to US (1391401) layout?
« on: Sun, 05 April 2015, 16:23:24 »
Hi,
I have bought a german Model M (due to terribly expensive shipping from US to europe),
but I like the US layout much more. Is it possible to replace german layout of left shift, return etc with the US one (attaching pictures of particular keycaps)?
and are the Unicomp (I am gonna also order OS X specfic ones) keycaps compatible with 1391403?

From what I saw the backplate is common for 1391401 and 1391403 so it should be possible, but I'm not sure...

Thank You!
« Last Edit: Sun, 05 April 2015, 18:17:52 by zangetsu »

Offline Huxley2500

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Re: Modify german (1391403) Model M to US (1391401) layout?
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 05 April 2015, 16:26:53 »
Sure, I have seen that at /r/mK.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Modify german (1391403) Model M to US (1391401) layout?
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 05 April 2015, 16:30:16 »
Fohat.digs has a nice guide on how to do ANSI conversions. Essentially, you open the board up, swap out the little white stabilizers pins to be in the right location, and pull out the hammers in the locations you want to change caps in. I did this modification so that my 6019284 could have the standard 60% ANSI layout with 1.25x - 1x - 1.25x mods.

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Modify german (1391403) Model M to US (1391401) layout?
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 05 April 2015, 17:59:32 »
I believe the question was for a Model M ISO to ANSI conversion.  I would think there would need to be a controller swap and (I would think) rearrangement of the springs for the keys.  (So it would need to be torn down and bolt-modded to swap the springs.)

I am not sure if that is correct or not being as I have never owned an ISO model M.

Offline zangetsu

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Re: Modify german (1391403) Model M to US (1391401) layout?
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 05 April 2015, 18:09:50 »
Thank you for answers.
Controller is certainly compatible (but I am going to make Bluetooth controller anyway)

I have found this (it is ANSI to ISO though) of /r/MK so i'm sure it is possible:
http://imgur.com/a/fmqXG

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Modify german (1391403) Model M to US (1391401) layout?
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 05 April 2015, 18:13:36 »
I believe the question was for a Model M ISO to ANSI conversion.  I would think there would need to be a controller swap and (I would think) rearrangement of the springs for the keys.  (So it would need to be torn down and bolt-modded to swap the springs.)

Does the M membrane not allow for swaps like the F capacitive PCB?

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Modify german (1391403) Model M to US (1391401) layout?
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 05 April 2015, 18:14:55 »
When doing a bolt-mod, swapping springs is trivial.

There may be a difference of a spring or 2, but I think ISO uses more, if I remember correctly.

If you have the new keys, just look at the back and you can see what you need to do.

Were our leaders just stupid? Well, maybe. But there’s a deeper explanation of the profoundly self-destructive behavior of Trump and his allies: They were all members of America’s cult of selfishness. You see, the modern US right is committed to the proposition that greed is good, that we’re all better off when individuals engage in the untrammeled pursuit of self-interest. In their vision, unrestricted profit maximization by businesses and unregulated consumer choice is the recipe for a good society.
Support for this proposition is, if anything, more emotional than intellectual. I’ve long been struck by the intensity of right-wing anger against relatively trivial regulations, like bans on phosphates in detergent and efficiency standards for light bulbs. It’s the principle of the thing: Many on the right are enraged at any suggestion that their actions should take other people’s welfare into account. This rage is sometimes portrayed as love of freedom. But people who insist on the right to pollute are notably unbothered by, say, federal agents tear-gassing peaceful protesters. What they call “freedom” is actually absence of responsibility.
Rational policy in a pandemic, however, is all about taking responsibility. The main reason you shouldn’t go to a bar and should wear a mask isn’t self-protection, although that’s part of it; the point is that congregating in noisy, crowded spaces or exhaling droplets into shared air puts others at risk. And that’s the kind of thing America’s right just hates, hates to hear. Anger at any suggestion of social responsibility also helps explain the looming fiscal catastrophe.  – Paul Krugman 2020-07-28 NYT

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Modify german (1391403) Model M to US (1391401) layout?
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 05 April 2015, 18:17:13 »
The membrane should be fine.  I believe all the keys in the matrix are on it.  The question is whether or not the controller would be compatible?  (I guess it is??)  It was German ISO....
It still would need to have the springs rearranged for ANSI.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Modify german (1391403) Model M to US (1391401) layout?
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 05 April 2015, 18:32:16 »
I believe all the keys in the matrix are on it.  The question is whether or not the controller would be compatible? 

Aren't they all the same?

Isn't it a matter of selecting the appropriate "language" in the keyboard control panel under Windows?
Were our leaders just stupid? Well, maybe. But there’s a deeper explanation of the profoundly self-destructive behavior of Trump and his allies: They were all members of America’s cult of selfishness. You see, the modern US right is committed to the proposition that greed is good, that we’re all better off when individuals engage in the untrammeled pursuit of self-interest. In their vision, unrestricted profit maximization by businesses and unregulated consumer choice is the recipe for a good society.
Support for this proposition is, if anything, more emotional than intellectual. I’ve long been struck by the intensity of right-wing anger against relatively trivial regulations, like bans on phosphates in detergent and efficiency standards for light bulbs. It’s the principle of the thing: Many on the right are enraged at any suggestion that their actions should take other people’s welfare into account. This rage is sometimes portrayed as love of freedom. But people who insist on the right to pollute are notably unbothered by, say, federal agents tear-gassing peaceful protesters. What they call “freedom” is actually absence of responsibility.
Rational policy in a pandemic, however, is all about taking responsibility. The main reason you shouldn’t go to a bar and should wear a mask isn’t self-protection, although that’s part of it; the point is that congregating in noisy, crowded spaces or exhaling droplets into shared air puts others at risk. And that’s the kind of thing America’s right just hates, hates to hear. Anger at any suggestion of social responsibility also helps explain the looming fiscal catastrophe.  – Paul Krugman 2020-07-28 NYT

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Modify german (1391403) Model M to US (1391401) layout?
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 05 April 2015, 18:34:16 »
If that is the case, then yes, there would be no need to change the controller at all.  I thought they were hard-coded for the language, is all.

Offline Ludovician

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Re: Modify german (1391403) Model M to US (1391401) layout?
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 05 April 2015, 20:12:22 »
Does anyone here know for sure whether it'll work just by swapping springs and stabs around? I've been wondering about this for a while.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Modify german (1391403) Model M to US (1391401) layout?
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 05 April 2015, 20:36:15 »
Yes (I think), any mod that I have ever tried has worked. IBM made parts interchangeable and used the same ones everywhere, as far as I know. That is why people get excited about activating the "secret keys" and squeezing in things like Windows.
Were our leaders just stupid? Well, maybe. But there’s a deeper explanation of the profoundly self-destructive behavior of Trump and his allies: They were all members of America’s cult of selfishness. You see, the modern US right is committed to the proposition that greed is good, that we’re all better off when individuals engage in the untrammeled pursuit of self-interest. In their vision, unrestricted profit maximization by businesses and unregulated consumer choice is the recipe for a good society.
Support for this proposition is, if anything, more emotional than intellectual. I’ve long been struck by the intensity of right-wing anger against relatively trivial regulations, like bans on phosphates in detergent and efficiency standards for light bulbs. It’s the principle of the thing: Many on the right are enraged at any suggestion that their actions should take other people’s welfare into account. This rage is sometimes portrayed as love of freedom. But people who insist on the right to pollute are notably unbothered by, say, federal agents tear-gassing peaceful protesters. What they call “freedom” is actually absence of responsibility.
Rational policy in a pandemic, however, is all about taking responsibility. The main reason you shouldn’t go to a bar and should wear a mask isn’t self-protection, although that’s part of it; the point is that congregating in noisy, crowded spaces or exhaling droplets into shared air puts others at risk. And that’s the kind of thing America’s right just hates, hates to hear. Anger at any suggestion of social responsibility also helps explain the looming fiscal catastrophe.  – Paul Krugman 2020-07-28 NYT

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Modify german (1391403) Model M to US (1391401) layout?
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 05 April 2015, 20:38:08 »
Does anyone here know for sure whether it'll work just by swapping springs and stabs around? I've been wondering about this for a while.

I'll test it when I get an ISO M in hand. Should be soon.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Modify german (1391403) Model M to US (1391401) layout?
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 06 April 2015, 05:46:33 »
Does anyone here know for sure whether it'll work just by swapping springs and stabs around? I've been wondering about this for a while.

I'll test it when I get an ISO M in hand. Should be soon.

I'll be keeping a look out for this - I am considering an M122, which are only available in ISO (locally, too!) and would need an ANSI conversion.
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Offline Ludovician

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Re: Modify german (1391403) Model M to US (1391401) layout?
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 06 April 2015, 05:48:41 »
Where did you find one of those locally, Rowdy?
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Offline rowdy

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"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline E TwentyNine

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Re: Modify german (1391403) Model M to US (1391401) layout?
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 06 April 2015, 08:01:04 »
Does anyone here know for sure whether it'll work just by swapping springs and stabs around? I've been wondering about this for a while.

Yes, definitely.  No controller swap is necessary.
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