Author Topic: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps  (Read 61558 times)

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Offline VERGiL

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #150 on: Sun, 03 January 2016, 06:40:25 »
Such a bummer. It's been almost a year now and nothing happened.
I got no reply from KBT Europe and Vortex in the last months.
Even their european retailer "Corus Keyboards" knows nothing about backlit ISO PBT caps.

Sorry guys. I did my best. Lets just wait and see what happens.

Offline Judicator

  • Posts: 13
Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #151 on: Sun, 03 January 2016, 12:28:55 »
It's OK VERGiL, thanks for your commitment anyway.
I have no other explanation except for Vortex seeing this as not profitable, and it is a pity because is so hard to find such keycaps in theese layouts.
Is this really hopeless or we can try something else?

Offline Rilow

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #152 on: Sat, 16 January 2016, 13:47:58 »
This sucks. Their Facebook page is full of people wanting this too, why wont they make it?

They even told us it was coming
https://www.facebook.com/Vortexgear/posts/868892243178487?comment_id=868938799840498&reply_comment_id=868943309840047&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R6%22%7D
« Last Edit: Sat, 16 January 2016, 13:51:30 by Rilow »

Offline Phenix

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #153 on: Sat, 16 January 2016, 14:39:50 »
black - DE ISO
Winter is coming.

Offline Judicator

  • Posts: 13
Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #154 on: Sat, 16 January 2016, 15:19:58 »
Let's non-violently carpet-bomb them with mails and posts, we at least deserve an answer.

Offline Phenix

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #155 on: Wed, 27 January 2016, 10:54:30 »
And two white. Looks like white is more bright.
so white - iso
Winter is coming.

Offline Wulf

  • Posts: 4
Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #156 on: Mon, 01 February 2016, 05:34:22 »
I'd love a set of these in ISO uk white too.  I tried emailing Vortex a week or two back pleading for an ISO version of these keycaps but seems to have fallen on deaf/uninterested ears :(

As an earlier poster mentioned, its not like there isnt interest in these.  Their facebook page has numerous requests and they've even hinted/teased about them coming.  They don't tend to post very often though.  Real shame as their is virtually nothing in ISO white backlit keycaps (except Ducky, and only Ducky) available, even worse if you have a keyboard with non standard bottom row.

Offline Wulf

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #157 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 11:19:42 »
So I've been doing some digging for backlit ISO keycaps and have come across an alternative to Vortex.

Not sure if these will have the option to be PBT but still better than what we have atm (nothing).  Got in touch with Max Keyboards and it seems they are in the middle of designing customisable sets of backlit keycaps including ISO (hallelujah).  Copy of email with contact below.


Dear Jason

Thank you for contacting us for your inquiry.

We do planning to release ISO UK layout custom backlit keycap set after engineer has complete to fine tune the jig.
We will have most of the keycaps fit to Corsair keyboard, but 6.5 spacebar is not available, we do have non-backlit or translucent 6.5 spacebar.

Please do not hesitate to contact me for any inquiry, thank you.

Best Regards,

Kent Chang
MaxKeyboard
www.facebook.com/maxkeyboard

Offline xzec

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #158 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:43:54 »
Really late to the party, but ISO Nordic.

Offline Tyrosh22

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #159 on: Sat, 27 February 2016, 12:55:29 »
It seems unreasonable for Vortex to ignore such an opportunity. There must be some many people desperately wanting reasonably priced higher quality keycaps in ISO. I own a set of Vortex Doubleshots (non-backlit version) and I consider them to be a good choice pricing at around 25 dollars on massdrop. Honestly, I think both sides are missing out here.
Meow.

Offline MAR82

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #160 on: Mon, 29 February 2016, 03:34:14 »
It seems unreasonable for Vortex to ignore such an opportunity.

Not really, this thread has been up for almost a year, and there are still only 160 replies on it.
Most people asking for different layouts. Some people want UK, some want DE, and others Nordic, and then there's also got to be some that want AZERTY or even something else.
I wish they would make an ISO set (UK would work for me), but I also understand that they don't want to have the tooling made and not be able to sell enough to pay for that tooling

Offline Judicator

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #161 on: Mon, 29 February 2016, 05:25:11 »
Yeah and it is understandable.
The sad thing is that italian layouts are so hard to come by, basically no one makes them.
Honestly Vortex was my last hope to build my own keyboard, now I really don't know whare to look for.

Offline MadGinga

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #162 on: Tue, 26 April 2016, 15:21:44 »
White - UK-ISO pls :)
  • Custom 60%, CMX Browns (UK-ISO) [Nostalgia black/orange keycaps + orange/black braided usb cable]
  • Ducky Shine 5 RGB, CMX browns (ISO-UK)[combo stock with white alphas and numpad numbers taken from an ANSI set + modifiers on alt, alt gr, esc & calc] (server)
  • 2x Ducky Zero, CMX browns (ISO-UK) [stock caps] (work)
  • Poker II, CMX reds (ANSI) [stock caps]
  • Misc cap sets, Tai-Hao Miami (UK-ISO), Tai-Hao Sunset (UK-ISO), GMK Nautilus (UK-ISO) [on order], JTK Toxic x2 (UK-ISO) [on order]

Offline iFreilicht

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #163 on: Thu, 11 August 2016, 07:39:10 »
I guess at this point chances are very slim of this actually succeeding within the next few years, but I'd take ISO DE in white if they ever came available.
I'd be fine with ANSI enter, too, if I get German script and the short shift.
Sentraq S60-X, dyed blank PBT keycaps, Gateron Browns

Offline LukS

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #164 on: Mon, 10 October 2016, 06:45:31 »
It seems that there is no chance for this, but I am very interested in a set of DE black.
DE white sounds also good, but I would prefer black.

Offline wodan

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #165 on: Sat, 22 October 2016, 11:08:17 »
I remember how I was excited about Vortex announcing ISO layout PBT doubleshots a year ago.

Some misconceptions here:
- The number of sets made for an ISO layout like ISO-DE would probably be far less than 1/10th of the ANSI set that sold thousands on Massdrop alone. Expecting a price <50$ will likely disapoint you. Let's hope for <100$
- It's very easy for a company to promise something like that and very stupid to tell people to buzz off when requesting something like that. Keeping us all waiting for a set keeps us from buying/searching other alternatives.
- Who will sell/distribute this set in Germany or the EU? CorusKB? After seeing how the sales of the great DUCKY PBT keycaps on Caseking went, they will probably not take this risk again.

Offline My_Thoughts

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #166 on: Sat, 22 October 2016, 12:52:44 »
Yeah and it is understandable.
The sad thing is that italian layouts are so hard to come by, basically no one makes them.
Honestly Vortex was my last hope to build my own keyboard, now I really don't know whare to look for.

I believe Coolermaster will have italian keys out "soon" (and not a Blizzard soon).

Offline Judicator

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #167 on: Sat, 22 October 2016, 13:32:08 »
Yeah and it is understandable.
The sad thing is that italian layouts are so hard to come by, basically no one makes them.
Honestly Vortex was my last hope to build my own keyboard, now I really don't know whare to look for.

I believe Coolermaster will have italian keys out "soon" (and not a Blizzard soon).
Cooler Master is going to make an italian keyset or a keyboard?



Offline Dragonfly

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #168 on: Mon, 31 October 2016, 08:01:53 »
Hi,
I'm new to mechanical keyboards, but i like them a lot. It seems to be hard to find decent keycaps, my ABS keycaps are starting to wear off after just a few weeks. So I would buy:
1x white ISO
1x black ISO
I prefer ISO-DE, but ISO-UK or ISO-Nordic will work for me, too.

Offline parasemic

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #169 on: Thu, 17 November 2016, 08:18:28 »
I have hard time understanding why won't they just create a set of keys that include all special ISO keys and sell it separately. I wouldn't mind even if it costs double since having doubleshot PBT makes the set last far longer time. I can't believe it wouldn't turn profit if they would price the individual keys triple compared to your standard set.

Offline duynguyenle

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #170 on: Thu, 17 November 2016, 08:25:49 »
I have hard time understanding why won't they just create a set of keys that include all special ISO keys and sell it separately. I wouldn't mind even if it costs double since having doubleshot PBT makes the set last far longer time. I can't believe it wouldn't turn profit if they would price the individual keys triple compared to your standard set.

I read that comment as: you have a hard time understanding supply and demand?
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Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #171 on: Thu, 17 November 2016, 08:51:20 »
I have hard time understanding why won't they just create a set of keys that include all special ISO keys and sell it separately. I wouldn't mind even if it costs double since having doubleshot PBT makes the set last far longer time. I can't believe it wouldn't turn profit if they would price the individual keys triple compared to your standard set.

I read that comment as: you have a hard time understanding supply and demand?

Ducky sold PBT keycaps in ISO and they were listed on PC component websites, but whenever I looked randomly over the last two years there were never any in stock.  Looking today they have been replaced by Tai Hao doubleshots...

The demand is there, Vortex just failed to capitalise on it.
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Offline seville57

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #172 on: Thu, 17 November 2016, 10:12:13 »
I have hard time understanding why won't they just create a set of keys that include all special ISO keys and sell it separately. I wouldn't mind even if it costs double since having doubleshot PBT makes the set last far longer time. I can't believe it wouldn't turn profit if they would price the individual keys triple compared to your standard set.

I read that comment as: you have a hard time understanding supply and demand?

Ducky sold PBT keycaps in ISO and they were listed on PC component websites, but whenever I looked randomly over the last two years there were never any in stock.  Looking today they have been replaced by Tai Hao doubleshots...

The demand is there, Vortex just failed to capitalise on it.

Yes, thats right, I have 2 Ducky ISO/Nordic keycaps sets.



Ducky ISO/Nordic laser engraved keycaps set.


Sorry for the bad pictures.
« Last Edit: Thu, 17 November 2016, 10:21:08 by seville57 »

Offline duynguyenle

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #173 on: Thu, 17 November 2016, 12:07:40 »
I have hard time understanding why won't they just create a set of keys that include all special ISO keys and sell it separately. I wouldn't mind even if it costs double since having doubleshot PBT makes the set last far longer time. I can't believe it wouldn't turn profit if they would price the individual keys triple compared to your standard set.

I read that comment as: you have a hard time understanding supply and demand?

Ducky sold PBT keycaps in ISO and they were listed on PC component websites, but whenever I looked randomly over the last two years there were never any in stock.  Looking today they have been replaced by Tai Hao doubleshots...

The demand is there, Vortex just failed to capitalise on it.

I'm not saying there isn't demand. The demand obviously wasn't enough to make it worth their time.
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Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #174 on: Thu, 17 November 2016, 12:45:58 »
I have hard time understanding why won't they just create a set of keys that include all special ISO keys and sell it separately. I wouldn't mind even if it costs double since having doubleshot PBT makes the set last far longer time. I can't believe it wouldn't turn profit if they would price the individual keys triple compared to your standard set.

I read that comment as: you have a hard time understanding supply and demand?

Ducky sold PBT keycaps in ISO and they were listed on PC component websites, but whenever I looked randomly over the last two years there were never any in stock.  Looking today they have been replaced by Tai Hao doubleshots...

The demand is there, Vortex just failed to capitalise on it.

I'm not saying there isn't demand. The demand obviously wasn't enough to make it worth their time.

Guess we should be happy that Tai Hao value their time less than Vortex then :))
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Offline parasemic

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #175 on: Thu, 17 November 2016, 14:26:24 »
I have hard time understanding why won't they just create a set of keys that include all special ISO keys and sell it separately. I wouldn't mind even if it costs double since having doubleshot PBT makes the set last far longer time. I can't believe it wouldn't turn profit if they would price the individual keys triple compared to your standard set.

I read that comment as: you have a hard time understanding supply and demand?

That's quite a stretch. It's obviously out of the question to produce full sets for each ISO region, but if they produced somewhat overpriced sets of all ISO caps it would: increase their overall sales by a large margin even for the standard sets due to increased customer base AND increase the brand exposure for their products in ISO regions.

The sets are already being made for the Pok3r which includes every single one of the non-standard caps, hence the production line is already in place and would need exactly zero investment to build.

Offline Judicator

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #176 on: Thu, 17 November 2016, 15:30:50 »
I'm not an expert but I think that a keyset which would include all the neglected Countries would sell decently well.
At least for no other reason that there would be no alternative.
But honestly I don't see that coming any time soon so, ironically, I would be better to buy a cheap mechanical keyboard with decent keycaps and cannibalize it...

Offline duynguyenle

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #177 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 06:09:28 »
I have hard time understanding why won't they just create a set of keys that include all special ISO keys and sell it separately. I wouldn't mind even if it costs double since having doubleshot PBT makes the set last far longer time. I can't believe it wouldn't turn profit if they would price the individual keys triple compared to your standard set.

I read that comment as: you have a hard time understanding supply and demand?

That's quite a stretch. It's obviously out of the question to produce full sets for each ISO region, but if they produced somewhat overpriced sets of all ISO caps it would: increase their overall sales by a large margin even for the standard sets due to increased customer base AND increase the brand exposure for their products in ISO regions.

The sets are already being made for the Pok3r which includes every single one of the non-standard caps, hence the production line is already in place and would need exactly zero investment to build.

I was unaware that shine-through caps are available for ISO layout RGB Pokers. I have only been able to find ANSI-specific caps.

In any case, the market for people who actually bother to change keycaps is exceedingly small. Much smaller than most people here would estimates (we are all surrounded by a filter bubble of keyboards enthusiasts here, it is the entire point of this forum after all).

What most people don't realise is that while you may think there are good demands for custom keysets, a few hundred units sold one way or another means absolutely nothing to manufacturers. Unless the market is there for thousands or tens of thousands of units sold, it is unlikely to even make a blip in the radar of medium to large companies. Having an extra SKU to worry about, along with all the supply chain considerations along with it (another item to have in your stock management) for a meagre few hundred sales doesn't make sense.

Just look at GMK Carbon, arguably the best-selling GMK keyset in recent history, with 2k+ order sold. The (mostly) fully featured International add-on is currently available for a very reasonable price point, and currently sits at 36 orders.

Most SP group buys I have seen or participated in so far has sold meagre few units of their international child sets (usually in the low tens of unit, single digit in some cases), and has struggle to meet MOQ for those specific child sets, even on wildly popular SA groupbuys.

I keep saying this, but the demand for this kind of thing just isn't as high as you think it is.

Edit: Having that said, there appears to be an EU vendor selling pre orders for ISO-specific shinethrough kits for the Poker, buy up before they sell out folks
« Last Edit: Fri, 18 November 2016, 06:11:19 by duynguyenle »
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Offline fax668

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #178 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 07:11:26 »
Just look at GMK Carbon, arguably the best-selling GMK keyset in recent history, with 2k+ order sold. The (mostly) fully featured International add-on is currently available for a very reasonable price point, and currently sits at 36 orders.

While I agree with almost everything you said, GMK Carbon is a bad example because a lot of people interested in international layouts didn't buy the base kit. At the time it was very unclear whether an international kit would ever be made. And frankly, while I ordered an international kit, I am almost hoping that it doesn't meet MOQ because buying a base kit from the aftermarket is a major pita.

BTW, this new GB is offering an amazing variety of layouts: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=85828.msg2302882#msg2302882. They are PBT but dye sublimated.

Offline duynguyenle

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #179 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 07:43:31 »
Just look at GMK Carbon, arguably the best-selling GMK keyset in recent history, with 2k+ order sold. The (mostly) fully featured International add-on is currently available for a very reasonable price point, and currently sits at 36 orders.

While I agree with almost everything you said, GMK Carbon is a bad example because a lot of people interested in international layouts didn't buy the base kit. At the time it was very unclear whether an international kit would ever be made. And frankly, while I ordered an international kit, I am almost hoping that it doesn't meet MOQ because buying a base kit from the aftermarket is a major pita.

BTW, this new GB is offering an amazing variety of layouts: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=85828.msg2302882#msg2302882. They are PBT but dye sublimated.

While I'm quite excited for the XDA GB as well, it doesn't seem to address the backlit part of the equation?

I quite agree with the sentiment about international sets, Wodan has been doing an excellent job of making it easier to keyset designers to incorporate better ISO supports for their keysets, but given the tepid response so far, I am uncertain that the situation will improve anytime soon.

In the meantime, I will continue to use US-international layouts for the sets that do not have proper ISO support, and luckily ISO-UK has a relatively higher uptake and other variants of ISO due to the small number of unique keys.

There's a German-specific GB for ISO-DE GMK Dolch that is struggling mightily to meet MOQ. That is a bit sad, but it reflects the realities of the market (that is, one monolithic kit with support for everysingle ISO flavour is too big and unwieldy, and will be very expensive, and having separate kits for each country will kill the entire thing due to MOQ reasons). Aside from suggesting Wodan's ISO framework kit to every keyset designer going forward, I don't really have any other good suggestions on how to improve this.
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Offline pomk

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #180 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 07:44:27 »
Just look at GMK Carbon, arguably the best-selling GMK keyset in recent history, with 2k+ order sold. The (mostly) fully featured International add-on is currently available for a very reasonable price point, and currently sits at 36 orders.

While I agree with almost everything you said, GMK Carbon is a bad example because a lot of people interested in international layouts didn't buy the base kit. At the time it was very unclear whether an international kit would ever be made. And frankly, while I ordered an international kit, I am almost hoping that it doesn't meet MOQ because buying a base kit from the aftermarket is a major pita.

BTW, this new GB is offering an amazing variety of layouts: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=85828.msg2302882#msg2302882. They are PBT but dye sublimated.
Yeah, carbon international is doomed to fail. I don't see why T0mb3ry would not add the necessary keys to the kit so that one could use it to fill a keyboard. This is the same as if someone in a year would start selling skeletor international kits. Do note that the 36 kit figure is from four days ago, on a linear progression we would now be at 70+.

Offline duynguyenle

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #181 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 07:50:36 »
Just look at GMK Carbon, arguably the best-selling GMK keyset in recent history, with 2k+ order sold. The (mostly) fully featured International add-on is currently available for a very reasonable price point, and currently sits at 36 orders.

While I agree with almost everything you said, GMK Carbon is a bad example because a lot of people interested in international layouts didn't buy the base kit. At the time it was very unclear whether an international kit would ever be made. And frankly, while I ordered an international kit, I am almost hoping that it doesn't meet MOQ because buying a base kit from the aftermarket is a major pita.

BTW, this new GB is offering an amazing variety of layouts: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=85828.msg2302882#msg2302882. They are PBT but dye sublimated.
Yeah, carbon international is doomed to fail. I don't see why T0mb3ry would not add the necessary keys to the kit so that one could use it to fill a keyboard. This is the same as if someone in a year would start selling skeletor international kits. Do note that the 36 kit figure is from four days ago, on a linear progression we would now be at 70+.

Because the international kit wasn't in the plans to begin with, but as the base kit proved unexpectedly popular, Tombery started work on the add-on kit due to popular requests from people who asked during the GB. IIRC he only considered the add-on close to the end of the GB, so there wasn't enough time to add the option to the main GB (a lot of coordination needed with GMK regarding quotes etc etc)
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Offline pomk

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #182 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 07:54:55 »
Just look at GMK Carbon, arguably the best-selling GMK keyset in recent history, with 2k+ order sold. The (mostly) fully featured International add-on is currently available for a very reasonable price point, and currently sits at 36 orders.

While I agree with almost everything you said, GMK Carbon is a bad example because a lot of people interested in international layouts didn't buy the base kit. At the time it was very unclear whether an international kit would ever be made. And frankly, while I ordered an international kit, I am almost hoping that it doesn't meet MOQ because buying a base kit from the aftermarket is a major pita.

BTW, this new GB is offering an amazing variety of layouts: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=85828.msg2302882#msg2302882. They are PBT but dye sublimated.
Yeah, carbon international is doomed to fail. I don't see why T0mb3ry would not add the necessary keys to the kit so that one could use it to fill a keyboard. This is the same as if someone in a year would start selling skeletor international kits. Do note that the 36 kit figure is from four days ago, on a linear progression we would now be at 70+.

Because the international kit wasn't in the plans to begin with, but as the base kit proved unexpectedly popular, Tombery started work on the add-on kit due to popular requests from people who asked during the GB. IIRC he only considered the add-on close to the end of the GB, so there wasn't enough time to add the option to the main GB (a lot of coordination needed with GMK regarding quotes etc etc)
Yes, I know the background. I just don't see why international is not sold as stand-alone kit. It would be cheaper as a whole by removing stuff like ansi enter and hhkb backspace, while not forcing them to source main sets at a premium from the aftermarket.
« Last Edit: Fri, 18 November 2016, 07:56:51 by pomk »

Offline duynguyenle

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #183 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 07:57:16 »
Just look at GMK Carbon, arguably the best-selling GMK keyset in recent history, with 2k+ order sold. The (mostly) fully featured International add-on is currently available for a very reasonable price point, and currently sits at 36 orders.

While I agree with almost everything you said, GMK Carbon is a bad example because a lot of people interested in international layouts didn't buy the base kit. At the time it was very unclear whether an international kit would ever be made. And frankly, while I ordered an international kit, I am almost hoping that it doesn't meet MOQ because buying a base kit from the aftermarket is a major pita.

BTW, this new GB is offering an amazing variety of layouts: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=85828.msg2302882#msg2302882. They are PBT but dye sublimated.
Yeah, carbon international is doomed to fail. I don't see why T0mb3ry would not add the necessary keys to the kit so that one could use it to fill a keyboard. This is the same as if someone in a year would start selling skeletor international kits. Do note that the 36 kit figure is from four days ago, on a linear progression we would now be at 70+.

Because the international kit wasn't in the plans to begin with, but as the base kit proved unexpectedly popular, Tombery started work on the add-on kit due to popular requests from people who asked during the GB. IIRC he only considered the add-on close to the end of the GB, so there wasn't enough time to add the option to the main GB (a lot of coordination needed with GMK regarding quotes etc etc)
Yes, I know the background. I just don't see why international is not sold as stand-alone kit. It would be cheaper to remove stuff like ansi enter and hhkb backspace, while not forcing then to source main sets at a premium from the aftermarket.

As in having a full set with iso-int and removing some other keys? I think that way we're running into MOQ issues again
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Offline pomk

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #184 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 08:06:40 »
Just look at GMK Carbon, arguably the best-selling GMK keyset in recent history, with 2k+ order sold. The (mostly) fully featured International add-on is currently available for a very reasonable price point, and currently sits at 36 orders.

While I agree with almost everything you said, GMK Carbon is a bad example because a lot of people interested in international layouts didn't buy the base kit. At the time it was very unclear whether an international kit would ever be made. And frankly, while I ordered an international kit, I am almost hoping that it doesn't meet MOQ because buying a base kit from the aftermarket is a major pita.

BTW, this new GB is offering an amazing variety of layouts: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=85828.msg2302882#msg2302882. They are PBT but dye sublimated.
Yeah, carbon international is doomed to fail. I don't see why T0mb3ry would not add the necessary keys to the kit so that one could use it to fill a keyboard. This is the same as if someone in a year would start selling skeletor international kits. Do note that the 36 kit figure is from four days ago, on a linear progression we would now be at 70+.

Because the international kit wasn't in the plans to begin with, but as the base kit proved unexpectedly popular, Tombery started work on the add-on kit due to popular requests from people who asked during the GB. IIRC he only considered the add-on close to the end of the GB, so there wasn't enough time to add the option to the main GB (a lot of coordination needed with GMK regarding quotes etc etc)
Yes, I know the background. I just don't see why international is not sold as stand-alone kit. It would be cheaper to remove stuff like ansi enter and hhkb backspace, while not forcing then to source main sets at a premium from the aftermarket.

As in having a full set with iso-int and removing some other keys? I think that way we're running into MOQ issues again
but with 150MOQ on the international addon (more expensive to international folk) is not? I bet that even if we just add keys, say those that wodan has been pushing, at 15 USD markup, I bet that we would have found 150 users buying the set. I has been requested on massdrop like 1500 times.
« Last Edit: Fri, 18 November 2016, 08:11:05 by pomk »

Offline duynguyenle

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #185 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 08:16:07 »

but with 150MOQ on the international addon (more expensive to international folk) is not? I bet that even if we just add keys, say those that wodan has been pushing, at 15 USD markup, I bet that we would have found 150 users buying the set. I has been requested on massdrop like 1500 times.

Maybe a good suggestion for GMK Carbon R2, for now I'll just cross my fingers that the International add on kit makes MOQ
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Offline pomk

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #186 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 08:24:27 »

but with 150MOQ on the international addon (more expensive to international folk) is not? I bet that even if we just add keys, say those that wodan has been pushing, at 15 USD markup, I bet that we would have found 150 users buying the set. I has been requested on massdrop like 1500 times.

Maybe a good suggestion for GMK Carbon R2, for now I'll just cross my fingers that the International add on kit makes MOQ
I'm just afraid that if this fails now, people will use it as a pretext for not even trying in the future. This fiasco is as representative as if people would say that electric cars don't make sense while the only method for obtaining one would be to buy a hummer and the dream that you can convert it in the (possible) future.

Offline duynguyenle

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #187 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 08:29:28 »

but with 150MOQ on the international addon (more expensive to international folk) is not? I bet that even if we just add keys, say those that wodan has been pushing, at 15 USD markup, I bet that we would have found 150 users buying the set. I has been requested on massdrop like 1500 times.

Maybe a good suggestion for GMK Carbon R2, for now I'll just cross my fingers that the International add on kit makes MOQ
I'm just afraid that if this fails now, people will use it as a pretext for not even trying in the future. This fiasco is as representative as if people would say that electric cars don't make sense while the only method for obtaining one would be to buy a hummer and the dream that you can convert it in the (possible) future.

Well the only thing I can do is to throw +1 in the pile for the international add kit and hope for the best, just need 149 more people to do the same in the next 7 days
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Offline pomk

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #188 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 08:45:39 »
Yea, I'm waiting to find one from the aftermarket at a reasonable price first. This international fiasco may have risen the aftermarket price already. The sets are going for 300$ or being traded to Carbon SA, which is usually going for about the same amount.

Imagine the horror should I buy a set at 300 only to find out that the customs find it and want 80+ more. :eek: Then the international kit + postage (50) on top with customs charges as well. So an international GMK set is worth just under 450 USD. One can buy one offs from SP at that price...
« Last Edit: Fri, 18 November 2016, 08:49:21 by pomk »

Offline duynguyenle

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #189 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 08:54:07 »
Yea, I'm waiting to find one from the aftermarket at a reasonable price first. This international fiasco may have risen the aftermarket price already. The sets are going for 300$ or being traded to Carbon SA, which is usually going for about the same amount.

Imagine the horror should I buy a set at 300 only to find out that the customs find it and want 80+ more. :eek: Then the international kit + postage (50) on top with customs charges as well. So an international GMK set is worth just under 450 USD. One can buy one offs from SP at that price...

I think you are exaggerating a bit, most sale post I've seen for GMK Carbon has listed it at $150-180, with the greedier ones going for $200 or slightly above. I have yet to see one much higher than that unless the novelties kit is included. In any case, you could just get the Int kit not and wait for the market to settle a bit. Or sell back the Int kit if you don't manage to find a base kit for yourself (I know that's not the best advice, spending money now in the hopes of getting base kit later, but at least you will help a good cause (proving there's at least some level of demands for ISO caps)  :p
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Offline jncunha

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #190 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 17:37:44 »
Is it possible to get ISO PT-pt (Portuguese) PBT backlit in black?

Offline Marnason

  • Posts: 1
Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #191 on: Fri, 24 March 2017, 11:37:18 »
Can somebody explain to me why Vortex and KBT Europe couldn't make money making International Kits, when others can? Tai-Hao make doubleshot PBT with International Kits, even with all 5 separate Nordic keys.

Am I really the only one satisfied with a reality where you buy ANSI or ISO sets, then supplement with a full featured and expensive International Kit that includes most alternative layouts? I really don't mind the extra cost and the 50 caps that go in the trash, as long as my keyboard looks perfect.

Offline leech

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Re: [IC] ISO Layout - Vortex Backlit Doubleshot PBT Keycaps
« Reply #192 on: Sat, 06 May 2017, 18:46:49 »
I don't mind ansi or iso

I am interested in DE double shot thick PBT white caps with backlit