Does much innovation occur at Cherry?

[Special K]

This is more of a thought question unless someone on here happens to work at Cherry Corp, but I was just wondering if their product design or product line has really evolved much over time, or have their switches been essentially a commodity product for decades now? 

Haven't all of the various colors of cherry switches always been available?  If not, which was the most recent to be released? 

Has the design of the switches changed much or improved in any way over the years?

Are their designs still protected by patents?  Obviously Gateron and Kalih have managed to create clones without being sued for patent infringement.  If not, what keeps them the #1 switch manufacturer (I assume they are)?

I'm not saying any of this is even necessarily bad, it was just something random I thought of.

[jacobolus]

There’s pretty much no innovation. That’s okay though. There’s a place in the world for average-but-nothing-special 30-year-old products to keep being made with slowly declining quality. Not everything has to be new or perfect.

“Are their designs still protected by patents?” – If you mean, e.g., MX switches, then no.

[illitirit]

I am very interested to answers on this as well.  I have always wondered the same thing.

[hwood34]

With all these clone companies popping up (and one actually being of comparable quality) I can't really see them staying the top dog for very long.

[njbair]

I don't think Cherry Corp. loses any sleep over the mechanical keyboard market. These days their bread and butter is making micro switches for pretty much every other push/press/toggle application.

[hwood34]

I don't think Cherry Corp. loses any sleep over the mechanical keyboard market. These days their bread and butter is making micro switches for pretty much every other push/press/toggle application.

They really don't. keyboard switches for them are like nothing

[sethk_]

Even though there is little innovation, I will only stick with their switches

[njbair]

Perhaps the only edge Cherry still has over Gateron is a track record, and maybe brand loyalty like pwnnarwhal just displayed.

[chyros]

When you think of it, a lot of "innovation" of keyboards over the years has just boiled down to cost-saving measures and decrease of quality xD . Almost every switch\keyboard manufacturer either compromised, bit the dust, or both .

[njbair]

When you think of it, a lot of "innovation" of keyboards over the years has just boiled down to cost-saving measures and decrease of quality xD . Almost every switch\keyboard manufacturer either compromised, bit the dust, or both .

Topre was pretty innovative. As was the NovaTouch's MX sliders.

[hwood34]

Perhaps the only edge Cherry still has over Gateron is a track record, and maybe brand loyalty like pwnnarwhal just displayed.

Don't forget accessibility. It was damn near impossible to get in touch with Gateron, hopefully once word really gets out they'll work on that

[sethk_]

Perhaps the only edge Cherry still has over Gateron is a track record, and maybe brand loyalty like pwnnarwhal just displayed.

cherry4lyfe as far as cherry clones go

[njbair]

Perhaps the only edge Cherry still has over Gateron is a track record, and maybe brand loyalty like pwnnarwhal just displayed.

Don't forget accessibility. It was damn near impossible to get in touch with Gateron, hopefully once word really gets out they'll work on that

True, although... Have you tried to buy Cherry switches on demand lately? They seem to be out if stock everywhere.

[IvanIvanovich]

Basically no innovation... unless you count a slight rework of the MX housing for SMD RGB led, or their 'new' keyboard controller. MX line was introduced in 1984, and really hasn't changed very much since then. Originally there was linear, and click type both of which were 'clear' colored. About a year later they started with the color black for linear, probably just for ease of identification on their own assembly lines. There abouts linear greys came into being for spacebars, and click greys too both having slightly different hues. Click type remained clear/white until 1988 when they introduced blues, and 'clear' became tactile. Tactile grey were introduced, and click grey became green. The old click type 'white' was discontinued. In about 1993 browns were introduced as 'ergo tactile'. 2008 saw the introduction of red linear, and then was bought out by ZF. In 2009 white click type was re-introduced. Since they have been owned by ZF the quality control has steadily declined, the G80 line has had corners cut just about everywhere is possible, doubleshots were discontinued and MX supply shortages abound. ZF primarily bought Cherry for the automotive and industrial sensor and switch portfolio and probably doesn't really care that much about the keyboard division. The patents for MX switch has been expired for some time now, leaving the design free and clear to be used and adapted by the various clone producers.

[Den441]

I'm hoping one day they will improve their clicky switches. I still think complicated blue ALPS are the clicky switch to beat and even those could still improve. I want a snap-ier switch I guess.

[Macsmasher]

I got rid of all my Cherry keyboards once I found Topre switches. However, I'd revisit Cherry if they came out with a switch that was as smooth as Topre. Now that I've adjusted to Topre, all Cherry switches feel like they have sand in them.


The Germans are the best engineers in the world, but they're also resistant to change. And as long as their switches are in every mainstream mech keyboard made, why would they change? The answer is, they don't have to.

[jacobolus]

I still think complicated blue ALPS are the clicky switch to beat and even those could still improve. I want a snap-ier switch I guess.

Blue Alps isn’t really all that snappy, more of a middle-ground clicky switch. If you want snappy, I recommend, roughly in order of increasing snappiness: clicky SMK, white Alps, Matias clicky, IBM beam spring, amber Alps, amber Omron, Marquardt “butterfly”, IBM Model F.

[daerid]

Is anybody else making Clears (or equivalent)?

Then it doesn't matter...

[Special K]

I still think complicated blue ALPS are the clicky switch to beat and even those could still improve. I want a snap-ier switch I guess.

Blue Alps isn’t really all that snappy, more of a middle-ground clicky switch. If you want snappy, I recommend, roughly in order of increasing snappiness: clicky SMK, white Alps, Matias clicky, IBM beam spring, amber Alps, amber Omron, Marquardt “butterfly”, IBM Model F.

Is "snappy" the same as tactile?  Or does "snappy" mean the switch quickly bounces back up after you press it?

[davkol]

I suppose the latter.

[jacobolus]

Is "snappy" the same as tactile?  Or does "snappy" mean the switch quickly bounces back up after you press it?

I assume he meant sharply/crisply/dramatically tactile.

If snappy means the switch has a pop on the upstroke, then complicated Alps in general aren’t very snappy, though they’re not as bad as Cherry MX (which have the opposite, a sticky upstroke). For that kind of snappy, you want to look at Alps plate spring, IBM beam spring, Marquardt “butterfly” plate spring, or Topre or another rubber dome.

[Dihedral]

Cherry doesn't need to innovate. Their brand is strong and they sell products on the basis of them being decades old with little change. That signifies quality to many consumers. Also, even in 1337 gamer types, the different attributes of their switches are well known. To many entering the mech board market, especially to gamers, they want cherry MX, and that's all they care about.

[KHAANNN]

This is a nice video to watch, they were impressed, however I was not

All they show on the video is how they test their bulky/unimportant keyboards, I would have hoped to see some switch testing/QA/QC instead

On the other hand, they do show off some stress testing environments, yet there was no indication that each switch is tested extensively

If I was giving a tour of the facilities to gamers, I would concentrate on switches, in this tour, they didn't

I will also stick to cherries never the less, only their springs and spring application needs some innovation in my opinion, to reduce the noise

[Findecanor]

Cherry doesn't need to innovate. Their brand is strong and they sell products on the basis of them being decades old with little change.

They need to invest in innovation and production facilities if they are going to retain their market lead.

Razer and Omron have innovated, coming up with mechanical switches with centred backlighting without light-bleed. That is something that Cherry does not have.
Topre and Matias have switches that are soft on the up-stroke. Cherry does not have that either.

[Special K]

Is "snappy" the same as tactile?  Or does "snappy" mean the switch quickly bounces back up after you press it?

I assume he meant sharply/crisply/dramatically tactile.

Every time I think I've tried all the really clicky/tactile switches, I learn about more of them

They call this place Wallethack - I seem to have this desire to try every switch type to see if there is another one out there I like better.  Unfortunately most of them are discontinued.

[jacobolus]

They call this place Wallethack - I seem to have this desire to try every switch type to see if there is another one out there I like better.  Unfortunately most of them are discontinued.

The only way to try every switch is to visit HaaTa in California.