Razer Death Adder Refresh

[exousia]

Have you ever used an MX518? It's is a perfectly usable and comfortable mouse. And I would consider ergonomic design an aspect of function.

I have used one and I don't like it. I prefer the low-profile shape of the Razer Diamondback/Copperhead. You can visit any number of forums like gotfrag, esreality, prounreal, and many other gaming sites to find I am nowhere alone in disliking the shape.

But it's not too difficult to design a comfortable mouse for 90% of the population... Of course, manufacturers still screw it up.

I don't think this site is part of that 90% of the population that could give a rats arse what it's shaped like. Most people are oblivious to the generic shape. Most hardcore gamers (like myself) aren't and realize the ergonomics can make a significant difference. Just the same as this website is about hardcore keyboard users that know how much a mechanical keyboard can make a difference, yet 90% of the people out there are still 'satisfied' with the junk that is produced to the masses on the  shelves of office depot.

I would say the layout of a keyboard would be pretty important to the user in the same way the shape of a mouse will be important.

I agree, and that is not what I said either. Layout and shape are not one and the same. Shape of a keyboard could be something with rounded vs hard edges, compact, larger, designer elements- things that the typical keyboard user does not care as much about. Layout describes Where the keys are positioned, which is obviously much more important to most people (atleast in the context of the people who regular this site). Do not confuse the two in the analogy I was making.

[itlnstln]

I have used one and I don't like it. I prefer the shape of the MX518's.

My brain just exploded.

[exousia]

My brain just exploded.

It's ok I'm human. I corrected what I wrote with what I meant.

[Shuki]

I have a Puretrak talent as well, really nice pad would recommend it to anyone not just gamers (especially if you live in america).

Nice youtubes vids, a long time ago I used to play with 90cm for 360 degrees, but the ability to be able to whip around quickly is more important I felt.

I find the MX518 hard to grip really well and I do prefer the Diamondback shape to it, however no mouse I have used so far has been without flaws so hopefully I find one soon which I can stick with. Seeing as I didn't like the original Deathadder that much I doubt I will like the refresh version either :<

[Langley]

I think the thing that bothered me most about the mx518 (besides the horrible inhuman electronic noise it made at barely audible frequencies) was that the weight on it seemed really poorly distributed. It gave a little to much resistance to the point where it felt like it didn't want to move and I was forcing it against it's will. Mice don't have wills, you say? Every now and then, you could make out words in that howling noise.

[Arc'xer]

I think the thing that bothered me most about the mx518 (besides the horrible inhuman electronic noise it made at barely audible frequencies) was that the weight on it seemed really poorly distributed. It gave a little to much resistance to the point where it felt like it didn't want to move and I was forcing it against it's will. Mice don't have wills, you say? Every now and then, you could make out words in that howling noise.

By any chance were you using the new MX518? The new one has G-feet the large sized feet found on the G5.

New

Old

(Well not so new, it is a few years old but the amount of people with older 518s is quite a lot.)

The reason I ask is because one of the reasons why the MX518 lost popularity. Is because the old version had lighter weight and it's smaller mouse feet were preferred. The new MX518 had some weights installed by Logitech, reasons unknown. But the weight was significant enough to affect the mouse.

[ch_123]

Didn't they also change the electronics? Maybe that's what caused the weird noises. Mine had no issues, and it's still in use by one of my friends who I gave it to as a Christmas present.

[Shuki]

You weighed them with the cord attached!

Didn't see you already mentioned it, my bad

Some people are a picky about mice as you are about keyboards!

Difference is there are actual companies out there that make consistently high quality keyboards!

[lmnop]

My teenage son pwns you all in TF2/LFD with his MX518.  What cracks me up is he always top of the scoreboard using a Unicomp Buckling Spring and a MX518 set at LOW SENSITIVITY.  

Drives me nuts.

cute. I have been playing Team Fortress since 1997. if he is interested in competing on a high level I could get him a try out in CEVO or STA.

The irony of it all.   You're SUPPOSED to use black cherries.  You're SUPPOSED to pump up the mouse sensitivity.   You're SUPPOSED to have the highest DPI ever known to mankind.

my Cherry MX Blue took some getting used to but I can see why Cherry MX Black are preferred.

in the graphs I posted you can see a optical sensor that has a resolution of 1600 CPI leave a laser sensor with a resolution of 3200 CPI in the dust.

[Langley]

By any chance were you using the new MX518? The new one has G-feet the large sized feet found on the G5.

The design on the bottom is the same as the "old" picture. To me, it feels like it has a lot of weight at the top near the buttons, but feels much lighter at the base, causing sort of a dragging feeling. Though I wouldn't have even bothered to replace it if I could get it to stop making that noise. It wasn't my ideal, but it wasn't bad enough to pay 40 bucks for another mouse over. I think it probably has more to do with the fact that I'm 5'2" and very small in general. The "cheap" feeling I hear in a lot of complaints about Razer mice registers to me as "light." Probably why the copperhead was my favorite mouse ever. I'd still be using it if I hadn't killed the scroll wheel.

[microsoft windows]

The first two mice you pictured look thrashed. What on Earth did you do to them?

[ch_123]

That's the finish.

[Rajagra]

it is recommended not to install the Setpoint drivers

Some fascinating info there.
If you don't install Setpoint, how do you stop Windows from forcing acceleration on (even when it says it's off)? I tried some registry settings, but they don't seem to hold. I assume gamers hate acceleration as much as I do.

Show Image

here is a bonus graph on the SteelSeries Experience I-2 which is a frosted translucent glass surface.

Ouch! Guess who is using a G9 on an Icemat right now. :lol:

[microsoft windows]

You mean those mice were meant to look like they went through a lawn mower?

[Langley]

What's that coating they use on the grippy part of the mouse? Always seems to rub or peel off. Sort of curious as to what it is.

[exousia]

Ouch! Guess who is using a G9 on an Icemat right now. :lol:

The new G9x is a major improvement with it's upgraded sensor (the Avago ADNS-9500) and outperforms just about everything else, based on other graphs from that site.
 

[lmnop]

Some fascinating info there.
If you don't install Setpoint, how do you stop Windows from forcing acceleration on (even when it says it's off)? I tried some registry settings, but they don't seem to hold. I assume gamers hate acceleration as much as I do.


Ouch! Guess who is using a G9 on an Icemat right now. :lol:

the registry fix should work. I think the Setpoint drivers turn acceleration on automatically. maybe you should run driver cleaner? you are right acceleration should be turned off.

The new G9x is a major improvement with it's upgraded sensor (the Avago ADNS-9500) and outperforms just about everything else, based on other graphs from that site.
 

I think the SteelSeries Xai is the mouse to beat.

it uses the Avago A9500 Laser Sensor. the Logitech G9x and G500 use the Avago S9500 Laser Sensor. the difference is the feature set.



SteelSeries Xai (125 x 68 x 38 mm x 146 g)
Microsoft Intellimouse Optical (126 x 68 x 39 mm x 147 g)
Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical (124 x 66 x 39 mm x 125 g)
Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 (132 x 69 x 43 mm x 163 g)
Razer Mamba (128 x 70 x 42 mm x 108-129 g)

I posted the dimensions because in the press release it looks really small but that isn't the case at all.

the sensor tracks at a impressive 6 metres a second by 100,000 counts per second. the Xai is a big improvement over the Ikari. the LCD is higher resolution and instead of just displaying profile name and cpi values it has a scrollable menu in which has almost every single driver feature in it except creating macros and profiles like you can edit jitter and prediction values, edit cpi values in increments of 1 for both x and y axis, edit polling rate in increments of 1, a new auto-adjusting lift feature similar to the Roccat Kone I mentioned earlier and a new feature called ExactSens which i'll quote

With SteelSeries ExactSens you can rely on true hardware based sensitivity settings, freeing yourself from any and all software interpolation

the configuration of this mouse is impressive.

with the exception of the WoW mouse they have always used quality scroll wheels and switches.

I like the classic ball shape housing it has a non-slip surface, great center of gravity, side buttons are clicky, braided cloth usb cable and I have read comments from owners that have said the teflon feet are really soft and glide even better than hyperglides.

PS, here is a side by side comparison of the DeathAdder Revision and DeathAdder Original.

[Arc'xer]

From the reviews I seen on youtube for both Kinzu and Xai. It seems like they aren't worth it.

It might have been quality control issues. But if that's not the case then there's quite the problem with them. More so to the kinzu having more positive acceleration and fails to track when moving the mouse fast enough.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=videos&search_query=kinzu&search_sort=video_date_uploaded

Oranjoose's is quite extensive review.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=videos&search_query=xai+review&search_sort=video_date_uploaded

Might be bad case of bad mice. But seems like every thread I read on these two mice someone is there pointing some problems.

[lmnop]

I have read the same comments from ESReality and FPSLabs a lot of people have claimed flawless tracking where the occasional person claims skipping or negative acceleration. the problem seems to be random and not isolated. i'm not sure if it's a hardware or software issue that can be resolved through a future firmware update. if I had this issue I would probably exchange it. if I remember correctly Logitech had some launch issues.

[Rajagra]

if I remember correctly Logitech had some launch issues.

My Logitech G5 needed a firmware update to make it work on some surfaces (like glass mats.) Yes. Firmware. For a mouse.

[lmnop]

I know there is a firmware update for the G5 I used to own it when Moses wore short pants. i'm talking about the G500 and G9x.

[Rajagra]

Wasn't being sarcastic. I find it amazing that we need (or are even able) to upgrade firmware on a mouse.

[DrunkenDonut]

Slightly OT, but still Logitech and Razer related...

I went from my much loved (but worn) MX-700 to a Razer Mamba to a Razer Orochi. I've been on the Orochi for 2-3 weeks now. It's a much better mouse for me, being smaller and a more appropriate setup for a laptop - bluetooth means no more carrying the Mamba's base around.

I'm new to the Razer mice, having not picked one up many many years ago when the Boomslang was all the rage (Logitech had never let me down). So far so good. My only peeves are the lack of OS X programmability for the Mamba and Orochi and an OS X corruption (Snow Leopard issue) which is occasionally disabling some hotkeys (mouse hotkeys included). I was stoked when I saw Mac driver availability but it's only a half done job. No hotkey / button configuration unless I hook up to Windows.

Despite that, the Orochi is my daily user and the battery life is decent too. Since I'm on rechargeables (and I always have the USB cord handy) I don't worry about running out of power. A week or two is far better than the 1.5 days I would get from the Mamba.

[Langley]

I hope they figure out how to make wireless rechargeable mice last longer on battery mode. It's really my last remaining problem with them. They always seem to die right in the middle of something critical. At least with the Mamba you can break out it's cord, but it's not exactly something that can be done on the fly. Best one I ever used was a plain old microsoft wireless optical mouse I don't even remember the model of. Used plain AA batteries and it lasted for weeks. Too bad the batteries eventually exploded inside of it, it was a good mouse.

Is the Orochi bluetooth only? I love the size of it.

[Arc'xer]

Is the Orochi bluetooth only? I love the size of it.

Both, wired/wireless just like the mamba.

[lmnop]

the Mamba is not bluetooth. Orochi is. the Orochi still suffers from jitter and z-axis tracking but doesn't have any pattern recognition problems. I think it's a better mouse.

[Arc'xer]

the Mamba is not bluetooth. Orochi is. the Orochi still suffers from jitter and z-axis tracking but doesn't have any pattern recognition problems. I think it's a better mouse.

I was referring to it's operation, it's dual-capability for wired/wireless modes.

[lmnop]

oh sorry

[exousia]

I think the SteelSeries Xai is the mouse to beat.

the sensor tracks at a impressive 6 meters a second by 100,000 counts per second. the Xai is a big improvement over the Ikari.

I'll believe that feat of the Xai when I see it in actual testing. As for the G9x, these results are pretty convincing, as it registers consistently past 5m/s and topping out at 6m/s.

[lmnop]

yes but the Japanese only tested the Avago A/S9500 on Glass (G-Pad, SteelSeries Experience I-2) there has always been a performance loss on Glass so if it can track on Glass at 6 metres a second by 100,000 counts a second it's a pretty safe assumption a aluminum, plastic or cloth well perform well.

Logitech G9x Avago ADNS-S9500


Logitech G500 Avago ADNS-S9500


SteelSeries Xai Avago ADNS-A9500


all three of them use the same sensor. there is no need to test them separately.

[lmnop]

yes but the Japanese only tested the Avago A/S9500 on 2 types of glass (G-Pad, SteelSeries Experience I-2) there has always been a performance loss on glass so if it can track on glass at 6 metres a second by 100,000 counts a second it's a pretty safe assumption a aluminum, plastic, cloth or hybrid will perform exceptionally well.

Logitech G9x Avago ADNS-S9500


Logitech G500 Avago ADNS-S9500


SteelSeries Xai Avago ADNS-A9500


all of them use the same sensor. there is no need to test them separately.

[exousia]

Then what is the 'feature set' you are talking about....

[lmnop]

Then what is the 'feature set' you are talking about....

it has a scrollable menu in which lets you edit almost every single driver feature except creating macros and profiles on the fly. you can edit jitter, prediction values, edit cpi values in increments of 1 for both x and y axis, edit polling rate values in increments of 1 and a new auto-adjusting lift feature similar to the Roccat Kone.

those are the features.

[exousia]

hah I see now. You confused me by saying what sensor each mouse uses individually and then following it by saying they use different 'feature sets'. I had no idea it just meant different driver configurabilities.

Interesting too, why one would want to be able to configure correction values. I would expect those to be built in and already programmed to the most optimal settings by some engineer. Start messing with that stuff too much and people will be confusing themslves as to whether it's just the mouse sensor not liking the mouse surface they're on or changing up the settings too much.

[lmnop]

steelseries calls correction "Freemove" I have it in my Ikari it basically makes drawing straight lines easier in programs like photoshop. I never had much use for it but it's a good piece of mind I suppose.

steelseries definitely sets the bar for mouse control. they explain every feature in detail here. you can also download preset profiles from their sponsored gamers.

[lmnop]

steelseries calls correction "Freemove" I have it in my Ikari it basically makes drawing straight lines easier in programs like photoshop. I never had much use for it but it's a good piece of mind I suppose.

steelseries definitely sets the bar for mouse control even though most gamers will probably set everything to zero the fact they allow you to control these settings which are hard coded in most mice and don't have to use a hacked firmware is great. they explain every feature in detail here. you can also download preset profiles from their sponsored gamers here.

[Arc'xer]

Interesting too, why one would want to be able to configure correction values. I would expect those to be built in and already programmed to the most optimal settings by some engineer. Start messing with that stuff too much and people will be confusing themslves as to whether it's just the mouse sensor not liking the mouse surface they're on or changing up the settings too much.

I don't understand how someone can get confused for all the features. It shouldn't be set in stone because different monitors, resolutions, and aspect ratios can affect sensitivity. If the person has so much trouble then they should find out the feature. It's an incentive to learn more about improving their mouse.

I mean if someone buys a mouse with this many features and don't know anything about it. I think either that person is in the wrong or they should take the time to learn the features.

steelseries calls correction "Freemove" I have it in my Ikari it basically makes drawing straight lines easier in programs like photoshop. I never had much use for it but it's a good piece of mind I suppose.

That's pretty much mouse prediction/correction or as logitech calls it angle snapping.

The engine corrects your distortions(stair case effect if you use a pencil and draw in paint) by making it a straight lines, more often. Humans don't generally make very straight lines so the engine assists and well it might be fine for some uses but gaming it tends to be a bit problematic for some.

I've read a number of low-sens users like it so they can turn without changing their point of aim due to small movements. But many don't like it due to the correction affecting aim.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8027/abyssussalmosa.png

No correction left and correction right. Notice the straight lines more often. In essence your aim is under your control more so.

[lmnop]

some mice have it some don't, some allow you to edit, others need a hacked firmware. in any case people make a fuss about them because they want to turn them off.

SteelSeries FreeMove offers users the option to choose the degree of anglesnapping or prediction, when this feature should kick in and correct your movement. You are able to adjust how much control should be left up to the mouse and how much control should be left up to yourself - in other words how precise should the mouse be reproducing your movement. This is especially desirable for user adjusting to the high precision in the SteelSeries Xai, especially if they are switching mouse from a mouse that wasn’t optimized for gaming.

You will find SteelSeries FreeMove options in the software of our Xai and Ikari Laser mice.

SteelSeries ExactAim offers total control over the amount of jitter correction and prediction calculations that are applied to the raw movement data the sensor reads from the surface. This is especially desirable when the mouse is used on a surface/mouse pad that hasn’t been optimized for high definition gaming.

[exousia]

I don't understand how someone can get confused for all the features. It shouldn't be set in stone because different monitors, resolutions, and aspect ratios can affect sensitivity. If the person has so much trouble then they should find out the feature. It's an incentive to learn more about improving their mouse.

I mean if someone buys a mouse with this many features and don't know anything about it. I think either that person is in the wrong or they should take the time to learn the features.

That's pretty much mouse prediction/correction or as logitech calls it angle snapping.

The engine corrects your distortions(stair case effect if you use a pencil and draw in paint) by making it a straight lines, more often. Humans don't generally make very straight lines so the engine assists and well it might be fine for some uses but gaming it tends to be a bit problematic for some.

I've read a number of low-sens users like it so they can turn without changing their point of aim due to small movements. But many don't like it due to the correction affecting aim.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8027/abyssussalmosa.png

No correction left and correction right. Notice the straight lines more often. In essence your aim is under your control more so.

I know what those feature's do, that doesn't mean applying them and trying to discern the results cannot lead to a mis-understanding of the real problem someone has with tracking. The majority of issues mice have vary because of the surface they are on in relation to both the sensor and dpi being used.

Aside from drift control, what I assume SteelSeries calls prediction, I don't see the need to have any other variables. And when they do provide them, there should be good documentation for it. Different (higher) resolutions should only affect the tracking ability if you are using a low dpi, regardless of monitor. The feature's aren't improving the mouse whatsoever, only changing how the mouse behave's. How they control jitter is curious, without simply changing the dpi setting or using some work-around algorithm. Every time I've had issue's with jitter, it was because of a cloth pad and That particular mouse. Looking at just how good this sensor is, I would see that as something that wouldn't even occur on most surfaces.

[Chao]

I gave up on my 3rd diamondback...not worth sending it back even if return shipping is free lol

I swear I must have gotten lucky, either that or their quality has degraded over the years. I got my Diamondback when it was their newest offering (circa 2005 iirc?) and it's still going strong. Several friends who bought them along with me still have them. One has failed because the man is a violent abuser of mice regardless of the brand and another started having some vertical tracking issues (when moving PRECISELY vertical, lacking any horizontal movement) in the last year, but mine and another fellow's are doing just fine and then some.

Also some of the optimizations in the newer Diamondback drivers have actually eliminated some of the functionality I found useful, namely the ability to hold down one of the programmable keys and have it, you know, register as down the entire time I hold it. Thus I use the same original drivers that came with the CD back in 2005.

[Kostamojen]

Anyone try the Imperator yet?

[Kostamojen]

Update:  I just bought a Imperator, LOL!

Pretty good so far... No pain issues yet.  Better than the G500 and Evoluent so far.

[hyperlinked]

I swear I must have gotten lucky, either that or their quality has degraded over the years. I got my Diamondback when it was their newest offering (circa 2005 iirc?)

I got my Diamondback around then too and mine is working spot on fine and never has had a problem in its life. I'm also using it on a Mac and it doesn't even have proper drivers for a Mac. The driver I'm using is for a similar Razer mouse. There were some driver compatibility issues, but I got those worked out and its even survived two OS updates from Tiger to Leopard to Snow Leopard.