Neat! I would be really bothered by the fact the right shift key is moved 1 unit to the right, because I wouldn't be able to type naturally on it with my pinky. Very interesting how you worked in the arrow keys; overall, I like it!

Thanks :)

Honestly, I have a weird typing style that I'm used to and ok with, only the left thumb presses the shift, in that situation, the left fingers cover like 30% of the keyboard while the right hand does most of the job, so I might even remove the right shift and isolate the arrow keys on the right/alone and minimize the mis-clicks that I'm afraid of, the only downside is the looks, I also occasionally use the right shift with vim and when my left hand is occupied, so it's nice to have it there

For pinkie shiftists / better typists, this layout would never work - and in that case, the WASD arrows might be more practical, since the hands are at the home-row

I use the arrow keys heavily, so non-dedicated arrows would probably at-least-halve my effective wpm/typing-speed - the bottle neck is the arrow keys for me, in that regard, a TKL makes a lot of sense, so I might just give up, get a programmable TKL and live happily ever after, however I would rather try some more minimalistic 60% layouts first, as I don't have any use for the F-key-row and the page-up/down block - to sum up, for me, the main challenge is the arrow key placement :)

Wow, this is awesome! 60%, with arrows, and all the keys that I need.

Regarding the right shift placement, it wouldn't bother me at all since i've never used it when typing (idk why, though. lol).
On my hhkb jp, I only use it when selecting several consecutive stuffs with one hand :D

Very great layout design, sir.  :thumb:

Thanks :)

It might be because you are a left-thumb-shift typist too, I only noticed these kind of things when I started eliminating things, when you eliminate something, it becomes clear how you use it :)
Interestingly, I only use the right-shift for typing ":wq" and only with vim - my other usages are superficial

Going to build a 60% for my brother with the Hack'd by Geeks SA set soon, decided to use a variation of this layout, I will probably use that keyboard for a bit and decide whether I'm going to stick to the arrow key placement ;)
I hope it works out, because it simplifies a lot of things for me, I'm seeking simplicity, functionality, dedicated-arrows, keycap-availability, keycap-harmony, keyboard-appeal - this layout theoretically has it all

If it doesn't work out, I would probably eliminate keycap-harmony, keyboard-appeal and try this: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/c59e67e98867467194f7f16dc5c2c4d3 or this: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/acd0b980dd2c2a5aef69da1325644f2e

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After trying so hard to find a solution to this issue, the qwerty layout's purpose to slow down typists make a lot of sense, placing the arrow keys near the main keys is convenient, yet the added speed/practicality causes mis-clicks, and since those mis-clicks are either to /? or Enter, they are very costly to correct and extremely annoying
My experience is with DSA keycaps, so with the GMK keycaps and Cherry profile, I'm hoping the mis-clicks to be gone

I wonder how many of us out there never use the right shift key.

Isn't it better anyways to be able to type just as fast with fewer keys? Isn't that the whole premise behind the smaller layouts? What if we could train the rest of the world to use the space for right shift for other things!

#norightshift

Yeah, i don't use the r-shift for typing. But i use it to select stuffs when using one hand only 
So i still need it. Even though it's only 1u.

Btw, I prefer your layout in the OP, instead of the 2 that you posted afterwards. The original ones definitely looks more tidy.

How you plan on going about pcb ?

The closest thing that can accomodate your layout is the upcoming AUNK : https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73527.0
due to the brazilian layout support (1+1.75 Rshift), but still the bottom row arrows won't be supported, unless you spread them using the 1.25u holes.

What size is the space-bar. It looks like 6.25u.

Some months ago I cannot use a keyboard with no arrows, but now, I can and it is even more ergonomic. I was in your shoes though; however, it is always a pain to require special keys for a special layout that are not included in most sets.

This would be unusable for me, as I use right Shift exclusively and hit it right on the left part of the key, exactly where your up arrow is.

Also, no layout is "optimal" IMHO if it still uses a full size spacebar.

Other than those two small issues I think it's a nice layout. I don't have a problem with 1.5x key wobble as long as the switches are stickered.

If you raise your hands higher, your fingertips will naturally rest closer together (so you can use 1x arrows without "cramming" your fingers).

lol, it looks a lot like the keyboard I built for my brother, I decided SA's are a bit too tall for me, GMK/Cherry is really optimal

I personally can't raise my hands high, my typing method is extremely crude, yet it's extremely comfortable and I have a theory that not raising my hands high and being extremely comfortable prevents issues like carpal tunnel syndrome - I'm basically resting my hands on a 1M high table, the keyboard and the screen is 1M away from me (keyboard is ~50-75cm away) - I only raise my hands a little bit to type, I press alphas with my index fingers and modifiers with other fingers, otherwise my hands are resting on the edges of the keyboard

I also considered a large spacebar to be non-optimal, mainly because I couldn't prevent rattle issues at the time, and the spacebar rattles the highest, however with this method: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72076.0 - spacebar is the easiest to fix, the length of the wire adds a little bit of flex, which eases the method, 2u wires are much harder to get right, since they don't flex and require a precise bending

Anyway, with this layout: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/e23d8e955068261f54a2
I use Cherry keycaps, and 2x height-reduced DSA's for the spots near the spacebar, since DSA's are easier to press with the thumbs, I also sand the edged of the spacebar a bit since it makes it a lot more comfortable (using DSA for the spacebar is also an option, however, can't let go of the GMK Spacebar elegance, flipping is too extreme, sanding is a nice middle ground, I just sand it enough to convert the edge to a rounded border, so not too much)

I settled with this layout and methods, built one keyboard that I intend to use for a very very long time, I've been using it for some time now, couldn't be happier

For some reason I felt so proud after seeing this, looks beautiful 

Now, you could grab a fox kit and the problem is solved, already.

Awesome work!   
Totally in love with your Layout Khaannn! <3<3

I would honestly much prefer your Arrowed 60% over other options like the WhiteFox Layout and I'm pretty much sold on using this for at least one of my upcoming builds!  :)

Really liking the arrow key placement and the fact it stays true to 60% size to fit all kinds of standard cases!  :thumb:


Only suggestion I have is going with a split Backspace (R2 Backspace) for cleaner looks (and in my case personal preference)...

Insert sample pic here:

Show Image

as well as changing alt, ctrl and fn placements because ISO international requires two alt (alt + alt gr),
and my poker has gotten me used to having Fn on capslock...  ;)

Edit:
Keyboard Editor Link

Thanks a lot FoC_Tow,

Your layout looks great too, recently I gathered all the GMK Keys I have, to try and assemble the best looking keycap layout, it was very close to yours (Looked like this, for some reason I neglected to take an actual photo: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/f16e040784f0adbb5720)

Practically tho, as a bit of a spoiler, arrows without gaps are hard to get used to, so Varmilo VA68M tempted me a lot, it doesn't stay within 60%, yet it has an aluminium case and arrows with some gap
If the case was black and if the stabs were costar ones, I would give that keyboard a real chance (since hasu's usb-usb converter theoretically handles programming, it could work)

My next layout trial is going to be this: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/1a87c0013c86bb9ca963 (both look much better in person :)
- Tackles a bottom row mis-click issue I have, Alt is very functional for me, I usually can't recover after using Alt, instead of Cmd+S, I press Alt+S, adding a gap there will theoretically help, Ctrl isn't very useful anyway
- I can use Dolch keycaps heavily, I like Dolch, with other layouts I end up using too much color, going to use a stepped 1.75 blank, instead of the white "Control" I always end up using
- The arrows are a bit challenging, couldn't decide what to use yet, I can continue using 1.25 blanks, or retry a 1u gapped arrow block again, I'm also thinking of using the 1u arrows in 1.25 slots, so I will use a standard PCB, but the arrows will stay far apart, I've tried arrows in those positions, they are extremely comfortable, yet they are a pain to look at :)

Anyway, I just wanted to share the current state of my 60% journey in case any of my experiences help you, all of these keyboards are practically usable, I'm especially in love with the latest one, I've settled with it, yet I'm a bit bored, so I'm going to try and 3d-print the plate with bronzefill filament and attempt a gapped+arrowed bronze/dolch 60% next

It looks pretty bad, but if you don't use the right shift heavily, I suggest you consider enlarging the arrows or placing them with a bit of gap

I like the idea behind your layout, but I wouldn't use it for two reasons:
1) I use right Shift(probably even more than the left one)
2) I need right Alt

But since most of my ideas involve either lefthand tenkey or other form of moving the keyboard's center away fro the mouse anyway, I decided to screw around with it.

Show Image

KLE raw data:

Code: [Select]

["/\nF10","*\nF11","-\nF12","Num Lock","Esc","!\n1","@\n2","#\n3","$\n4","%\n5","^\n6","&\n7","*\n8","(\n9",")\n0","_\n-","+\n=","~\n`","|\n\\\n\n\nInsert"],
["7\nF7","8\nF8","9\nF9",{h:2},"+",{w:1.5},"Tab","Q","W","E","R","T","Y","U","I","O","P","{\n[","}\n]",{w:1.5},"Backspace\n\n\n\nDelete"],
["4\nF4","5\nF5","6\nF6",{x:1,w:1.75},"Ctrl","A","S","D","F","G","H","J","K","L",":\n;","\"\n'",{w:2.25},"Enter\n\n\n\nPrint"],
["1\nF1","2\nF2","3\nF3","↑\n\n\n\nPgUp",{w:2.25},"Shift","Z","X","C","V","B","N","M","<\n,",">\n.","?\n/",{w:2.75},"Shift"],
["0\nCaps",".\nScroll","←\n\n\n\nHome","↓\n\n\n\nPgDn","→\n\n\n\nEnd",{x:1.5,w:1.25},"Fn",{w:1.25},"Alt",{a:7,w:4},"",{a:4,w:1.25},"Alt",{w:1.25},"Fn",{w:1.25},"Meta",{x:1.25},"ISO Next"]

Not prefect, but I might go further in this direction. Thank you for inspiration!

Thanks, and thanks for sharing, pretty interesting

The right mouse space is indeed pretty useful, I've considered going back to a TKL a couple of times, but I'm too used to having the mouse closer to the keyboard, so practically, once you gain that space, it's hard to go back

If you are not bound by the 60% rectangle (mainly advantage is 60% cases and 60% PCB's) - and if you don't really need the numpad, I think a laptop-keyboard-like mechanical might be the way to go

So there would be 6 rows instead of 5 but only arrow_left/down/right on the 6th row

(Just remembered this: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60268.0 - like this but without the enlarged bottom row and with ~standard keycaps)

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Another wicked idea is to build a standalone arrow controller, a keyboard that just has arrows, it's elevated and angled - it would latch onto 60%'s from behind, near the backspace