[GB] GMK RGBYK - shipped, received, over.

[njbair]

Hey everybody, I know we're all upset that this buy may not happen, and confused about what this all means for future community-run group buys, but let's not lose sight of the real tragedy here: shower_king's wasted patience.

I think a moment of silence is appropriate.

[azhdar]

Can we please not raise pitchforks to an individual who is clearly not fluent in english?

[joey]

Did the delivery confirmation have to be for these sets? Or could it just be anything?

[swimmingbird]

Did the delivery confirmation have to be for these sets? Or could it just be anything?

I think they said that they needed to provide tracking numbers so they would have to ship something tracked to everyone involved which would be an enormous waste / cannibalisation of money just to get the funds released

[shower_king]

show no respect will get result like this. i have persuaded many people to cancell this ,about 100 orders .
you can do it ,you do ,congratulations .

[swimmingbird]

show no respect will get result like this. i have persuaded many people to cancell this ,about 100 orders .
you can do it ,you do ,congratulations .

wait. so you told people to cancel their orders and are now upset that you can't get a refund? 

[azhdar]

Will you stop harassing him please?

[swimmingbird]

Will you stop harassing him please?

I'm not harassing anyone - just odd that someone would convince 100 people to cancel their orders for something for no reason

[azhdar]

Will you stop harassing him please?

I'm not harassing anyone - just odd that someone would convince 100 people to cancel their orders for something for no reason

because he is part of the EnjoyClick (chinese community) that is making a grouped order for the GMK GB hosted on GH.

Miami nights and RGBYK will not have happened without them.

[swimmingbird]

Will you stop harassing him please?

I'm not harassing anyone - just odd that someone would convince 100 people to cancel their orders for something for no reason

because he is part of the EnjoyClick (chinese community) that is making a grouped order for the GMK GB hosted on GH.

Miami nights and RGBYK will not have happened without them.

fair enough

[shawn o]

Set it up with Massdrop.

[romevi]

Set it up with Massdrop.

I'm almost inclined to agree. I'd rather go through Massdrop and get my caps than see it failed.

Maybe.

[Jokrik]

Can we please not raise pitchforks to an individual who is clearly not fluent in english?

I speak Chinese and lived there for a while
I can assure you what he meant is not far from what wrote, full of sarcasm

Fine let's just move on, it just irritate me too much

For anyone who wonder I already received  the refund, it's starting

[romevi]

I think if CB were to come back later, this should be offered for as a child deal. Something that would give it color to those few who complained CB is a bit plain.

[swimmingbird]

Set it up with Massdrop.

Seems like they are working with Sherry at the moment

[LeandreN]

Kind of "out of the loop". My full amount just got refunded. Plz send help

[catdogpaw]

Same here- just got a full refund. What's going on? I really want dem caps.

[romevi]

Kind of "out of the loop". My full amount just got refunded. Plz send help

Same here- just got a full refund. What's going on? I really want dem caps.

There were issues with PayPal, and if and until that gets resolved all orders are being refunded.

[azhdar]

I wanted to let everyone know the current status of the GB.

So about 4 days ago, I received an email saying that the PP account used for the GB has had a hold placed on it.  There were 4 pieces of information I needed to confirm with PP in order to have the hold lifted.  One of those pieces of information was delivery conformations for about 20 orders. I contacted paypal and explained the purpose of the funds and why I will be unable to provide them with delivery info at this time.  On Friday, I received a phone call from the rep that is handling my case.  He informed me that since the account does not have a history of being a merchant, and due to the large amount of incoming funds, they placed a hold on it.  I explained the purpose again to him, and he said he understood.  He said that in order to release the funds, I would need to provide the shipping info.  So that basically means that I am unable to transfer any money out of the account, to GMK, until after the GB is completed and shipped.  He mentioned that it was a new policy that was recently implemented.  We are currently stuck, in terms of options.  I am going to call them again on Monday, and see if I can get some more information and try to resolve this issue.  Whatever happens, I will keep everyone informed and I am terribly sorry for all of this.  I spoke with a few GB runners prior to this, and none had ever ran into issues their first time.  The only thing that makes sense to me is the policy update he mentioned.  I have not been able to find this in the policy so I hope that I can get in touch with someone that is more willing to accommodate this than he was. 

I did ask him, in the event we have to refund all the orders, if the fees would be refunded as well.  He said that they would refund the exact amount that was paid through the invoice.  So the only other issue would be currency conversion.  Radio and I are trying to figure out the best way to do this, if we are unable to work it out with PP.  Worst case scenario is that we will have to provide the difference out of pocket for those orders.  Again, I am incredibly sorry for this.  I know there are a lot of people really interested in this GB, and we will do our best to make sure it happens.  Unfortunately, we don't have the luxury to pay GMK directly, or we would have explored that option already.

I will let you all know more once I have more info from PP.

So an update on things.

Paypal is not budging on the hold.  I have spoken with quite a few reps, and they have all said the same thing.  So at the very least we will have to refund all the orders.  From there, it's kind of up in the air.  We can either cancel the GB and revisit at a later date, or explore other payment options.  We haven't spoken much on the latter, since we are more focused on ensuring all money is refunded.  I don't think anyone who joined the GB will lose any money, I think that we may have to cover the $0.30 per invoice.  Paypal did say that they would be able to work with me and have that credited back to me, but I have to begin refunding for that to happen.  The other issue is currency conversion for intl orders.  Paypal said that they would work with me on that as well, but I am not too confident on that, since they are a business designed to make money.  We will most likely begin refunds tomorrow.  I ask that everyone keeps the funds in USD for the time being, until I have more information on what the plans moving forward are.  Ultimately, this is your decision though.  Radio and I will do our best to make this nightmare as painless for all involved.  I am extremely sorry for all of this trouble.  I really wanted this to succeed and we are facing some massive obstacles right now. 

If there are any questions or concerns, be sure to post them here.  I will try and get back to you all as quickly as possible, but my time is limited currently while I am working and attending college.  Worst case, Radio will step in to offer any solutions or answers.

TL;DR: paypal is blocking the money because the paypal account has no merchant history. They want shipping verification to release the money. Refund is the only way to get back the money for the moment.

[LeandreN]

Kind of "out of the loop". My full amount just got refunded. Plz send help

Same here- just got a full refund. What's going on? I really want dem caps.

There were issues with PayPal, and if and until that gets resolved all orders are being refunded.

Read it just now. Had the same problems in my GB. Hope you get it sorted

[rpeterclark]

Set it up with Massdrop.

Seems like they are working with Sherry at the moment

They work with whoever wants to work with them, Sherry, Data (DangerZone), Matt3o, Mito, Intelli... Pretty good track record of getting keycaps from various designers onto keyboards.

[Jokrik]

Set it up with Massdrop.

Seems like they are working with Sherry at the moment

They work with whoever wants to work with them, Sherry, Data (DangerZone), Matt3o, Mito, Intelli... Pretty good track record of getting keycaps from various designers onto keyboards.

I think Originative is currently being run by Wendy
I ordered a lot of stuff yesterday, replied my email within minutes and the items were ship in 2 hours
amazing how much they improved

[jdcarpe]

To anyone thinking of running a community group buy:

DO NOT INVOICE FOR GROUP BUY ITEMS AS GOODS. INVOICE AS A SERVICE.

[romevi]

To anyone thinking of running a community group buy:

DO NOT INVOICE FOR GROUP BUY ITEMS AS GOODS. INVOICE AS A SERVICE.

Show Image

Are these the same invoices to use in PayPal's new layout? Is there a way to go back to the old website look and distinguish between goods and services? I've never run a group buy, only have handed out a few invoices in the past few months for other things, and PayPal's new website puts both goods and services in the same invoice.

[jdcarpe]

To anyone thinking of running a community group buy:

DO NOT INVOICE FOR GROUP BUY ITEMS AS GOODS. INVOICE AS A SERVICE.

Show Image

Are these the same invoices to use in PayPal's new layout? Is there a way to go back to the old website look and distinguish between goods and services? I've never run a group buy, only have handed out a few invoices in the past few months for other things, and PayPal's new website puts both goods and services in the same invoice.

That is the new system. See at the top where it says "Hide customization options?" You have to click that box to change from Quantity (Goods) to Hours (Service).

[Spaceman1200]

Sorry to hear about the GB and all your hard work.

[swimmingbird]

To anyone thinking of running a community group buy:

DO NOT INVOICE FOR GROUP BUY ITEMS AS GOODS. INVOICE AS A SERVICE.

Show Image

Are these the same invoices to use in PayPal's new layout? Is there a way to go back to the old website look and distinguish between goods and services? I've never run a group buy, only have handed out a few invoices in the past few months for other things, and PayPal's new website puts both goods and services in the same invoice.

That is the new system. See at the top where it says "Hide customization options?" You have to click that box to change from Quantity (Goods) to Hours (Service).

Seems like this sort of stuff should be condensed into some form of sticky

[jdcarpe]

Seems like this sort of stuff should be condensed into some form of sticky

It's not a generally recognized practice yet, as organizers have been getting by with charging as goods up to now. But I am recommending this practice going forward, to prevent these types of hangups.

[swimmingbird]

Seems like this sort of stuff should be condensed into some form of sticky

It's not a generally recognized practice yet, as organizers have been getting by with charging as goods up to now. But I am recommending this practice going forward, to prevent these types of hangups.

I'll PM some people who should know about this

[romevi]

To anyone thinking of running a community group buy:

DO NOT INVOICE FOR GROUP BUY ITEMS AS GOODS. INVOICE AS A SERVICE.

Show Image

Are these the same invoices to use in PayPal's new layout? Is there a way to go back to the old website look and distinguish between goods and services? I've never run a group buy, only have handed out a few invoices in the past few months for other things, and PayPal's new website puts both goods and services in the same invoice.

That is the new system. See at the top where it says "Hide customization options?" You have to click that box to change from Quantity (Goods) to Hours (Service).

Oh, I see it now. It still appears a little differently than your screenshot, but it still offers "hours."

[ Specified attachment is not available ]

I was going under "Request Money" before. Which I still don't know the difference from "Invoice."

[jdcarpe]

To anyone thinking of running a community group buy:

DO NOT INVOICE FOR GROUP BUY ITEMS AS GOODS. INVOICE AS A SERVICE.

Show Image

Are these the same invoices to use in PayPal's new layout? Is there a way to go back to the old website look and distinguish between goods and services? I've never run a group buy, only have handed out a few invoices in the past few months for other things, and PayPal's new website puts both goods and services in the same invoice.

That is the new system. See at the top where it says "Hide customization options?" You have to click that box to change from Quantity (Goods) to Hours (Service).

Oh, I see it now. It still appears a little differently than your screenshot, but it still offers "hours."

(Attachment Link)

I was going under "Request Money" before. Which I still don't know the difference from "Invoice."

Ah, I should have used my "other" account to post the example. It has the new look. :)

[radio_killah]

If people are so inclined I am willing to go ahead and contact Massdrop. They are right up the street in SF and I have met Kunal from Massdrop. Speaking for at least myself, this is my least preferred route. Although Massdrop just ran RGBW and CMYW using Originativeco's left overs and that seemed to go well. We could get this to probably tip at 400 sets again using their audience.

As for the refunds, like Ghost said, thank you so much to the offers by people to donate $1 but for the time being we will continue to just refund in full and pay out of pocket if necessary. This was our oversight and we are going to correct it, or have Paypal do it  ).

Thanks jd for that helpful paypal hint. Definitely something to keep in handy for any new group buy leaders. I wish we had known that sooner.

Please be patient with us as we work on the refunds. Much appreciated everyone.

[romevi]

If people are so inclined I am willing to go ahead and contact Massdrop. They are right up the street in SF and I have met Kunal from Massdrop. Speaking for at least myself, this is my least preferred route. Although Massdrop just ran RGBW and CMYW using Originativeco's left overs and that seemed to go well. We could get this to probably tip at 400 sets again using their audience.

As for the refunds, like Ghost said, thank you so much to the offers by people to donate $1 but for the time being we will continue to just refund in full and pay out of pocket if necessary. This was our oversight and we are going to correct it, or have Paypal do it  ).

Thanks jd for that helpful paypal hint. Definitely something to keep in handy for any new group buy leaders. I wish we had known that sooner.

Please be patient with us as we work on the refunds. Much appreciated everyone.

It seems everyone would prefer avoiding Massdrop, but I have no qualms with them. Sure, I can understand that they're in the "big league" and not as detail-oriented as we'd like, but if they in no way alter your designs (including the bonus Windows and Esc keys), then I don't see why we should avoid using them, especially if it means a guarantee of getting our caps.

Otherwise, we can try and hope the "hours" invoice option through PayPal works.

[swimmingbird]

I think if you went with massdrop the best thing to do would be to run it as part of a classic beige buy (not sure whats happening with photekq's at the moment)

Considering how well granite went I'm sure it would hit MOQ pretty easily

[roostrc0gburn]

If people are so inclined I am willing to go ahead and contact Massdrop. They are right up the street in SF and I have met Kunal from Massdrop. Speaking for at least myself, this is my least preferred route. Although Massdrop just ran RGBW and CMYW using Originativeco's left overs and that seemed to go well. We could get this to probably tip at 400 sets again using their audience.

As for the refunds, like Ghost said, thank you so much to the offers by people to donate $1 but for the time being we will continue to just refund in full and pay out of pocket if necessary. This was our oversight and we are going to correct it, or have Paypal do it  ).

Thanks jd for that helpful paypal hint. Definitely something to keep in handy for any new group buy leaders. I wish we had known that sooner.

Please be patient with us as we work on the refunds. Much appreciated everyone.

I think if you went with massdrop the best thing to do would be to run it as part of a classic beige buy (not sure whats happening with photekq's at the moment)

Considering how well granite went I'm sure it would hit MOQ pretty easily

I concur, both group buys could help each other out, but everyone is going to be wary of another GMK/Massdrop buy. TA messed it up for everyone. maybe a little too ambitious, and people standards and expectations were really high for that buy also.

If we go to a different format, I will again request - NAY - beg that we please please please add CMYK to this buy. i appreciate all the extras that have been added, but more than anything i need a CMYK pack, and they are so hard to find...

[Pieminister]

Yeah at this point Massdrop may be a decent option to reach MOQs and prevent paypal issues with both sets.

Even though I am a EU user, I'd happily eat up thee shipping costs if it means the sets make it!

[radio_killah]

Quick update on my end. I have sent an email to Kunal at Massdrop to see what we can do about still making this happen.

[romevi]

Quick update on my end. I have sent an email to Kunal at Massdrop to see what we can do about still making this happen.

thumb

[Tyr]

All banks have this kind of detection now of sudden changes in account behaviour. It's meant to stop drug dealers and money launderers or their mules basically. It came in with Basel II, which I assume Paypal are bound by as well. Of course a bank will not just suspend your account, nor immediately report you to the IRS because you have a personal relationship with them (usually). Paypal on the other hand doesn't give a **** about you.

[vivalarevolución]

This sort of issue has occurred before with group buys.  I know somewhere we have addressed how to deal with this issue.  I think one methods was sending out empty shipping notifications when the payment was made.  But I'm not really sure.

What jdcarpe mentioned also seems like a good idea.  He has run enough group buys to know what's up.

Anyways, a solution exists that avoids catching the attention of Paypal, we just need to find it.

[Pieminister]

This sort of issue has occurred before with group buys.  I know somewhere we have addressed how to deal with this issue.  I think one methods was sending out empty shipping notifications when the payment was made.  But I'm not really sure.

What jdcarpe mentioned also seems like a good idea.  He has run enough group buys to know what's up.

Anyways, a solution exists that avoids catching the attention of Paypal, we just need to find it.

I agree.

However we need to make sure that the solution doesn't jeapordise the group buy runner. Some people have suggested sending out empty envelopes qtc. This would not only be a waste of money for the organiser, but i imagine could open him up to accusations of fraud and risk having his PayPal account frozen etc.

[radio_killah]

I am going to hash out details with Massdrop but as long as everyone is still behind supporting RGBYK, Ghost and I will continue to pursue it via any means necessary.

[swimmingbird]

I am going to hash out details with Massdrop but as long as everyone is still behind supporting RGBYK, Ghost and I will continue to pursue it via any means necessary.

Good to hear

[romevi]

I am going to hash out details with Massdrop but as long as everyone is still behind supporting RGBYK, Ghost and I will continue to pursue it via any means necessary.

Great!

I take it refunds are going to go, then? This way I'll just use it when I get mine to apply to Massdrop.

[Jokrik]

I am going to hash out details with Massdrop but as long as everyone is still behind supporting RGBYK, Ghost and I will continue to pursue it via any means necessary.

Great!

I take it refunds are going to go, then? This way I'll just use it when I get mine to apply to Massdrop.

It has started I received mine
I reckon there will be plenty of time until it gets on Massdrop

[NorrisB]

Wow that is horrible news. 

[naasfu]

received a refund today.

thanks much guys for the effort.  i'm definitely in if there is a second attempt at this later on.

[mlng]

just chiming in to say refund received.  Also I wanted to say that I appreciate the effort and it's a rather unfortunate situation to be in.

[ghostjuggernaut]

I have just finished all of the refunds.  I rechecked everything, and everyone should be good.  If anyone has a discrepancy, please let me know.  I am going to contact PP tomorrow to get the fees sorted out.  Thank you everyone for your patience through all of this. 

[sethk_]

I have just finished all of the refunds.  I rechecked everything, and everyone should be good.  If anyone has a discrepancy, please let me know.  I am going to contact PP tomorrow to get the fees sorted out.  Thank you everyone for your patience through all of this.

a moment of silence for our fallen fees & rgbyk